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[mreddie]

The Ms. Marvel book really fell apart when it went from highschool hijinks to "the planet is ending" with 0 buildup.

 

[Duane Cunningham]

It's kind of fudgey to me that Spider-Man's identity can stay secret from someone like Tony now that the Mephisto spell is gone, and half the Avengers DO know. Actually, his "people who know" list is getting pretty long at this point. I wonder if Slott dislikes the fact that Bendis casually revealed him to that group in New Avengers way back then? At the time, they were like the first reveal. The list at that point was, I believe, Strange and MJ only.

Actually, Peter is kind of a dick for keeping Harry out of the loop at this point.

 

[BattleMonkey]

It's kind of fudgey to me that Spider-Man's identity can stay secret from someone like Tony now that the Mephisto spell is gone, and half the Avengers DO know. Actually, his "people who know" list is getting pretty long at this point. I wonder if Slott dislikes the fact that Bendis casually revealed him to that group in New Avengers way back then? At the time, they were like the first reveal. The list at that point was, I believe, Strange and MJ only.

Actually, Peter is kind of a dick for keeping Harry out of the loop at this point.

Matt Murdock knows too, knew his identity long ago during one of their earliest team ups. Cause DD could like tell they were same person by heartbeat or some bs like that.

 

[LordOfLore]

It's kind of fudgey to me that Spider-Man's identity can stay secret from someone like Tony now that the Mephisto spell is gone, and half the Avengers DO know. Actually, his "people who know" list is getting pretty long at this point. I wonder if Slott dislikes the fact that Bendis casually revealed him to that group in New Avengers way back then? At the time, they were like the first reveal. The list at that point was, I believe, Strange and MJ only.

Actually, Peter is kind of a dick for keeping Harry out of the loop at this point.

Think Cap figured it out after they ended up in the middle of a assassination attempt on Dr. Doom during the JMS run before CW.

 

[exmachina64]

Every time I read the name Thunderbolt Ross, I can't fathom how he was made Secretary of State. Dude wasted so much money chasing the Hulk all those years.

Partisanship matters more than facts, Ross makes people feel good with his "tough on capes" views.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Spider Man isn't an amateur. Established.

But he revealed his identity on his own during civil war, then Brand New Day retconned that so no one is able to remember that he did.

So only a handful of people are aware that Peter Parker is Spider Man. Law Enforcement and the Avengers aren't on that list. Miles Morales though? I think he went about 2 issues post secret wars before his cover was blown.

Edit: Miguel O'Hara is in a weird boat here as well- He just tells everyone that he's the Peter Parker spider man out of laziness, so no one is aware that they're two distinct individuals.

Yeah but when he was an amateur he kept it secret. I'm pretty sure the only person who knew his identity in the first 100 issues of asm was George Stacy, and he only told him as he was dying

 

[Manmademan]

and half the Avengers DO know. Actually, his "people who know" list is getting pretty long at this point. I wonder if Slott dislikes the fact that Bendis casually revealed him to that group in New Avengers way back then? At the time, they were like the first reveal. The list at that point was, I believe, Strange and MJ only.

http://www.cbr.com/comic-book-questions-answered-who-still-knows-spider-mans-secret-identity/

So I guess I'd say the following people know Spider-Man's identity:

Mary Jane Carlie Cooper Anna Maria Marconi Silk Jessica Drew Jessica Jones Wolverine Iron Fist Luke Cage Carol Danvers Doctor Strange Mockingbird Bucky Barnes Steve Rogers Clint Barton Johnny Storm Reed Richards Sue Richards Ben Grimm(presumably Franklin and Valeria Richards) – Dan Slott confirmed that they were never told Spidey's secret by their family Doctor Octopus JackalThe Kravens (Dan Slott thinks that they don't know, so I don't mind removing them) Kaine Miles Morales Mysterio (Dan Slott suggests that when the Ultimate Universe ceased to exist, Mysterio returned to the regular Marvel Universe sans the information about Peter's identity, which is fair enough to me) Spider-Girl Madame Web knew, so the current Madam Web knows, as well Alternate Spider-Men I was counting Spider-Man 2099 as an alternate Spider-Man, but fair enough, Spider-Man 2099

eh...it's not that long but it's getting up there.

Yeah but when he was an amateur he kept it secret. I'm pretty sure the only person who knew his identity in the first 100 issues of asm was George Stacy, and he only told him as he was dying

different era. Spider Man's "amateur" phase was in the 1960s and 70s. All you needed back then was a mask to keep a secret identity, and not even a particularly good one.

Everyone had a secret identity, because that's what you did. Steve Rogers had one, Thor had one, Iron Man had one, the X-men all had them. Spidey is one of the few to keep his.

Modern era comics generally realize that a secret identity is either impractical or impossible to keep up, so no one really bothers. They're relics, kind of like costumes with capes.

Edit: Jane-Thor's is particularly stupid, since I'm pretty sure the Avengers could come up with some science more advanced than run of the mill chemotherapy if she bothered to tell them what the problem was.

 

[PixelatedBookake]

Blame Bendis.

I thought the whole "Secret Wars" universe colliding was to blame for that.

 

[Lashley]

haha fair play

 

[SpaceWolf]

The MCU needs Squirrel Girl and it needs her now.

 

[Manmademan]

The MCU needs Squirrel Girl and it needs her now.

They were shopping around a TV show with SG leading the New Warriors.

not sure what happened with that.

 

[Slayven]

They were shopping around a TV show with SG leading the New Warriors.

not sure what happened with that.

Same thing that happened to the people making a Gambit movie, they sobered up

 

[Dalek]

Same thing that happened to the people making a Gambit movie, they sobered up

Dude, Gambit just appeared out of nowhere in the last issue of All-New Wolverine. I look at him as a relic of a bygone era.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Hulk is pretty much immortal but Banner isn't immune to the comic-book law that requires at least one death per event. You can blame either Bendis or Alonso.
He'll probably reappear within the year anyway.

It's been 3 years and Logan is still dead. Marvel was already phasing out Banner by the time they made Amadeus Cho the new Hulk.

The Ms. Marvel book really fell apart when it went from highschool hijinks to "the planet is ending" with 0 buildup.

You can thank Alex Alonso and Hickman's New Avengers.

 

[Manmademan]

Dude, Gambit just appeared out of nowhere in the last issue of All-New Wolverine. I look at him as a relic of a bygone era.

He's actually been consistently in and out of the X-titles. There was a Gambit vs. Fantomex beef that showed up in Uncanny, and he showed up briefly a couple of times in Uncanny Avengers.

So not forgotten, but he's pretty firmly in C lister status at the moment.

It's been 3 years and Logan is still dead.

eh...Logan is "dead" in the same way Jean Grey is dead.

He isn't.

Time Shifting an older version of him that is functionally identical to the version he replaced isn't much of a death.

 

[SpaceWolf]

They were shopping around a TV show with SG leading the New Warriors.

not sure what happened with that.

Screw that, she deserves her own low budget movie/TV series.

 

[Slayven]

Gambit was dated from conception. Side note, the voice of cartoon gambit could have easily played him

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

It's been 3 years and Logan is still dead. Marvel was already phasing out Banner by the time they made Amadeus Cho the new Hulk.

You're not wrong about Hulk but there's still a Logan running around in the Marvel universe. It would be like saying that Superman is dead and that the current one doesn't count because he's from another earth.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

eh...Logan is "dead" in the same way Jean Grey is dead.

He isn't.

Time Shifting an older version of him that is functionally identical to the version he replaced isn't much of a death.

But that's not the Logan we know. That's like replacing 616 Parker with Ultimate Parker. Now I'm not complaining regardless. I like Laura as Wolverine and we're getting way better Wolverine stories with her and Old Man Logan compared to the last decade of bad Wolverine stories.

You're not wrong about Hulk but there's still a Logan running around in the Marvel universe. It would be like saying that Superman is dead and that the current one doesn't count because he's from another earth.

Old Man Logan isn't taking the mantle of Wolverine.

 

[Manmademan]

But that's not the Logan we know. That's like replacing 616 Parker with Ultimate Parker.

nope. OML is exactly the same as 616 Logan, up to an unspecified point in the future where things go wrong. They have the exact same history, which is why OML has the same relationships with Sabretooth, Storm, Jubilee, Jean, etc that 616 does.

This is not the case for an alt-universe copy like Ultimate Parker.

It's logan, just an older one with additional memories.

Now I'm not complaining regardless. I like Laura as Wolverine and we're getting way better Wolverine stories with her and Old Man Logan compared to the last decade of bad Wolverine stories.
Old Man Logan isn't taking the mantle of Wolverine.

A wolverine by any other name is still wolverine.

So what if he's wearing a leather jacket and jeans when he's going on missions with the Xmen and slicing up villiains? Still the same dude.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

But that's not the Logan we know. That's like replacing 616 Parker with Ultimate Parker. Now I'm not complaining regardless. I like Laura as Wolverine and we're getting way better Wolverine stories with her and Old Man Logan compared to the last decade of bad Wolverine stories.
Old Man Logan isn't taking the mantle of Wolverine.

Marvel is still publishing a monthly book starring a mutant with claws called Logan. He's just older. Wolverine doesn't count as a dead character.

Hulk does as of right now since Amadeus is not Banner and that might last for a little while but Banner will be resurrected eventually.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

nope. OML is exactly the same as 616 Logan, up to an unspecified point in the future where things go wrong. They have the exact same history, which is why OML has the same relationships with Sabretooth, Storm, Jubilee, Jean, etc that 616 does.

This is not the case for an alt-universe copy like Ultimate Parker.

It's logan, just an older one with additional memories.



A wolverine by any other name is still wolverine.

So what if he's wearing a leather jacket and jeans when he's going on missions with the Xmen and slicing up villiains? Still the same dude.

Well I'll still say he's dead it's just Marvel found some clever workaround. Anyway, no one misses Banner. Everyone loves Amadeus Cho, I think.

Nice evasion, how many issues is that?

Because everyone acts like she's this big breakout star and I'm trying to quantify exactly how many sales she gets.

I don't know if you were told but she does way better in Digital and trade sales.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I don't know if you were told but she does way better in Digital and trade sales.

That doesn't mean much of anything either

 

[DeathyBoy]

That doesn't mean much of anything either

Diversity isn't just a wooden ship

 

[Dalek]

Well I'll still say he's dead it's just Marvel found some clever workaround. Anyway, no one misses Banner. Everyone loves Amadeus Cho, I think.

I don't know if you were told but she does way better in Digital and trade sales.

Yeah Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl and I *think* Nova are part of a partnership with Scholastic to sell these trades at school book fairs which is **mucho dinero**.

 

[LordOfLore]

Yeah Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl and I *think* Nova are part of a partnership with Scholastic to sell these trades at school book fairs which is **mucho dinero**.

Not Nova IIRC. Hellcat(which looks to be ending) is part of it I think. They also bought 200K+ copies of Champions #1 from Diamond for the launch.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

That doesn't mean much of anything either

Trade and digital sales are where the majority of books starring minority characters are selling. New readers don't give a shit about physical issues and comic book stores. Those sales should matter but Marvel and DC are slow when it comes to changing demographics.

Yeah Squirrel Girl, Moon Girl and I *think* Nova are part of a partnership with Scholastic to sell these trades at school book fairs which is **mucho dinero**.

Yeah. Scholastic is saving almost all of their lowest selling titles.

 

[Manmademan]

That doesn't mean much of anything either

it does. Digital + Trades have been a larger part of the market than single issues for years now.

Trade and digital sales are where the majority of books starring minority characters are selling. New readers don't give a shit about physical issues and comic book stores. Those sales should matter but Marvel and DC are slow when it comes to changing demographics.
.

yep. New Readers for a very long time have gone the trade or digital route. it's simply more accessible to them. Comic Stores tend to cater to older, whiter, more established fans that don't care much about series targeted towards younger or more diverse audiences.

This is why the diamond list can be very misleading.

Not Nova IIRC. Hellcat(which looks to be ending) is part of it I think. They also bought 200K+ copies of Champions #1 from Diamond for the launch.

wasn't aware of the scholastic deal, but that would explain a LOT about why Hellcat is still in print.

 

[Dalek]

I was at Barnes and Noble yesterday and the amount of people in the *huge* Graphic Novel section was more than the people my local comic shop. :/

 

[NEO0MJ]

yep. New Readers for a very long time have gone the trade or digital route. it's simply more accessible to them. Comic Stores tend to cater to older, whiter, more established fans that don't care much about series targeted towards younger or more diverse audiences.

I don't read any ongoings anymore other than from the Transformers line but I'm all digital with it. Can't deal with floppies anymore.

I was at Barnes and Noble yesterday and the amount of people in the *huge* Graphic Novel section was more than the people my local comic shop. :/

Pretty much an image thing. Being in comics shops unfortunately have a pretty ugly connotation in most people's minds, despite how popular the big two are these days with the mainstream audience.

 

[Manmademan]

I don't read any ongoings anymore other than from the Transformers line but I'm all digital with it. Can't deal with floppies anymore.

I was looking for an article, and found this, which is an excellent representation of where the market is right now. Looks like it includes most relevant channels with the exception of Marvel Unlimited. Also notable is that the state of the industry is EXTREMELY strong- it's passed 1993 in raw dollars, though not inflation adjusted dollars.

”Sales of comics in print formats have finally eclipsed the $850 million modern-era high from 1993," Miller said. ”That 1993 total was $1.4 billion in inflation-adjusted dollars, though, so there's still some ways to go to reach a new inflation-adjusted high for the last 50 years. But the book channel in particular is helping us make progress toward it."

http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/34930/comic-graphic-novel-sales-top-1-billion

 

[mreddie]

Not Nova IIRC. Hellcat(which looks to be ending) is part of it I think. They also bought 200K+ copies of Champions #1 from Diamond for the launch.

Wonder when Wasp joins in, that feels like it's perfect for it.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Gambit was dated from conception. Side note, the voice of cartoon gambit could have easily played him

Being associated with Rogue ruined Gambit. He was supposed to be a ladies man and he spent like 2 years being a ladies man and then like 10 crying about rogue

 

[Manmademan]

Wonder when Wasp joins in, that feels like it's perfect for it.

I would agree here. Issue #1 had a heavy "how can we recognize more women in science" message to it (and again- that character skews young) so that can't be an accident.

Being associated with Rogue ruined Gambit. He was supposed to be a ladies man and he spent like 2 years being a ladies man and then like 10 crying about rogue

Gambit was ALWAYS intended to be highly tied to Rogue. Without Rogue there is no Gambit.

Drawing pararells with Claudia from Anne Rice's Vampier Chronicles (the role played by Spider-Man's Kirsten Dunst in 1994's Interview with a Vampire) the man they call the X-meister continued, "He had all the grown up urges. He's growing up in his mind but his body isn't capable of handling it, which makes him quite cranky. And, of course, looking like an 11-year-old, who'd take him seriously in the criminal community?"

"So he built himself an agent in a sense, which was Mr. Sinister (inrtoduced by Claremont in Uncanny X-Men #221 in a story drawn by Marc Silvestri and Dan Green)," added the writer. "That was, in effect, the rationale behind Sinister's rather - for want of a better word - childish or kid-like appearance. The costume... the look... the face... it's what would scare a child. Even when he was designed, he wasn't what you'd expect in a guy like that."

"The problem was that, as he's monitoring the X-Men, he sees and falls for Rogue and wants to win her," added Claremont, a writer lauded and criticised in equal measure for his intricate subplots and long-term plotting. "But he can't approach him as himself; he's too young and won't be old enough forever - as far as Rogue's concerned. He can't approach her as Sinister obviously."

The nameless villain's solution, explained Claremont - who stressed that this was his original concept for the Cajun mutant - was to grow an older version of himself... namely Gambit. As originally concieved, Gambit was a bad guy. "He was supposed to come in, meet Rogue, Rogue was supposed to fall in love with him, the act of falling in love develops a humanity in him that seperates him out from Sinister or rather Sinister's human half. So in a sense, we have a love triangle between a now 60-year old mind in an 11-year-old body, the young Gambit, and Rogue. One's good, one's bad. Originally he was a bad guy pretending to be good but then he would discover that maybe he liked being good more and he was torn one way or the other. Ultimately there would be a conflict between Gambit and his creator, his true self." That was pretty much Claremont's intent, but as John Lennon once sang, "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/42889/gambit-fun-facts-gambits-sinister-origins

 

[Dalek]

Drawing pararells with Claudia from Anne Rice's Vampier Chronicles (the role played by Spider-Man's Kirsten Dunst in 1994's Interview with a Vampire) the man they call the X-meister continued, "He had all the grown up urges. He's growing up in his mind but his body isn't capable of handling it, which makes him quite cranky. And, of course, looking like an 11-year-old, who'd take him seriously in the criminal community?"

"So he built himself an agent in a sense, which was Mr. Sinister (inrtoduced by Claremont in Uncanny X-Men #221 in a story drawn by Marc Silvestri and Dan Green)," added the writer. "That was, in effect, the rationale behind Sinister's rather - for want of a better word - childish or kid-like appearance. The costume... the look... the face... it's what would scare a child. Even when he was designed, he wasn't what you'd expect in a guy like that."

"The problem was that, as he's monitoring the X-Men, he sees and falls for Rogue and wants to win her," added Claremont, a writer lauded and criticised in equal measure for his intricate subplots and long-term plotting. "But he can't approach him as himself; he's too young and won't be old enough forever - as far as Rogue's concerned. He can't approach her as Sinister obviously."

The nameless villain's solution, explained Claremont - who stressed that this was his original concept for the Cajun mutant - was to grow an older version of himself... namely Gambit. As originally concieved, Gambit was a bad guy. "He was supposed to come in, meet Rogue, Rogue was supposed to fall in love with him, the act of falling in love develops a humanity in him that seperates him out from Sinister or rather Sinister's human half. So in a sense, we have a love triangle between a now 60-year old mind in an 11-year-old body, the young Gambit, and Rogue. One's good, one's bad. Originally he was a bad guy pretending to be good but then he would discover that maybe he liked being good more and he was torn one way or the other. Ultimately there would be a conflict between Gambit and his creator, his true self." That was pretty much Claremont's intent, but as John Lennon once sang, "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."

.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Gambit was ALWAYS intended to be highly tied to Rogue. Without Rogue there is no Gambit.



https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/42889/gambit-fun-facts-gambits-sinister-origins

That doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea.

Claremont's plan for Gambit was also dumb. Maybe not as dumb as Gambit being behind the Morlock Massacre but still dumb. Also, I seriously doubt Claremont intended for Gambit to lust after her for as long as he did even if that was the OG plan.

 

[Manmademan]

That doesn't mean it wasn't a good idea.

Claremont's plan for Gambit was also dumb. Maybe not as dumb as Gambit being behind the Morlock Massacre but still dumb. Also, I seriously doubt Claremont intended for Gambit to lust after her for as long as he did even if that was the OG plan.

Claremont had a lot of bizarre ideas we should be VERY THANKFUL never panned out. But gambit being an exaggerated ladies-man stereotype makes perfect sense when you consider that Sinister (who was also intended to be a creation) was an exaggerated villanous stereotype. There's no nuance in either character, it's what you would expect an 11 year old to come up with.

A monkey wrench was thrown in that plan when both Gambit and Mr. Sinister became way more popular than Claremont anticipated and editorial directed him to change that plan.

edit: I'm not 100% sure on the wolverine story and whose idea that was, let me check into it.

 

[Weiss]

Claremont had a lot of bizarre ideas we should be VERY THANKFUL never panned out.

I'm pretty sure Wolverine being an actual mutated wolverine was also his idea.

Not only is that not true, Wolverine's origin was never going to be that he was a mutated animal to begin with.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

Claremont had a lot of bizarre ideas we should be VERY THANKFUL never panned out.

I'm pretty sure Wolverine being an actual mutated wolverine was also his idea.

His death of Wolverine story that never got done was pretty dope sounding IMO.

 

[Manmademan]

Not only is that not true, Wolverine's origin was never going to be that he was a mutated animal to begin with.

Went to double check my reference- Claremont did intend wolverine to be a mutated wolverine, and not a mutant. This idea was shot down by Stan Lee.

apparently dave cockrum discussed this in Wizard back in the day.

Wolverine's creator Len Wein denied that he intended that origin for wolverine, but that doesn't really matter- characters get taken over from their creators and retconned all the time.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Being associated with Rogue ruined Gambit. He was supposed to be a ladies man and he spent like 2 years being a ladies man and then like 10 crying about rogue

Being associated with Gambit ruined Rogue

 

[SpaceWolf]

Being associated as Gambit ruined Gambit.

 

[Frozenprince]

Claremont had a lot of bizarre ideas we should be VERY THANKFUL never panned out.

X-Men Forever reads like a 13 year olds fan fiction.

Dude ran his course.

 

[Dalek]

X-Men Forever reads like a 13 year olds fan fiction.

Dude ran his course.

It is weird how he just completely seemed to run out of talent. He was like Coppola with "Apocalypse Now" to Coppola with "Jack".

 

[Weiss]

X-Men Forever reads like a 13 year olds fan fiction.

Dude ran his course.

His Nightcrawler run was fucking amazing and I will fight anyone who says otherwise.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Wonder when Wasp joins in, that feels like it's perfect for it.

When she reveals her identity, which she would probably be happy about for no reason other than SCIENCE BITCH.

 

[Manmademan]

When she reveals her identity, which she would probably be happy about for no reason other than SCIENCE BITCH.

Does wasp even have a secret identity?

I thought she was running around openly claiming to be hank pym's daughter to anyone who would listen?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Being associated as Gambit ruined Gambit.

This is also true

It is weird how he just completely seemed to run out of talent. He was like Coppola with "Apocalypse Now" to Coppola with "Jack".

I think it's less that and more the whole thing moved on/changed without him and to try and go back didn't work.


X-Men have still never gotten even close to hitting that iconic plateau again that Claremont brought them to in the 80s

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Being associated as Gambit ruined Gambit.

 

[Frozenprince]

I need this $150M Gambit movie to happen.

I need it.