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Kanye West & Jay-Z present: Watch The Throne

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R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
"Who Gon Stop Me Now" encapsulates everything that's good about Kanye and everything that's bad.

The great? That beat. Love it.

But man, that chorus is some stupid shit. "Something like the holocaust"? That made me cringe the first time I heard it, and then he outdoes himself by rapping in pig latin. This song needs a remix with a new chorus and only Jay's verses.

Am I the only one that feels that way?
 
K

kamspy

Member
A lot of people are gonna agree with that Reilo, but that's just Kanye. He always shoots like, above the stars. So shit like "something like the holocaust" is a byproduct of that reach. You gotta take the good with the bad. I love the absurd pig latin verses.

I think the Blades of Glory samples in NIP were meant to try and make some people understand stuff like that, but from reading the thread a lot of people glazed right over them.


But what I need, is a Living So Italian leak.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
kamspy said:
A lot of people are gonna agree with that Reilo, but that's just Kanye. He always shoots like, above the stars. So shit like "something like the holocaust" is a byproduct of that reach. You gotta take the good with the bad. I love the absurd pig latin verses.
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with "experimental" lyrics, samples, beats, whatever. I appreciate those as much as anyone, but it has to have the proper context. Some of the shit Kanye does is just stupid and he overextends himself that way.

The mark of a great artist, in my opinion, is also knowing your limitations. I don't think Kanye knows his own limitations. But I can also see what you mean by saying that having no bounds like that can then produce some amazing gems. I don't think those parts in Who Gon Stop Me Now qualify.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
The pig Latin bit is funny, because half of it isn't pig Latin and he's just messing around. The holocaust is a bit too much hyperbole for me though, and it ruins the song IMO. And that means a lot when a big Kanye fan like me has had his tolerances exceeded for that sort of thing. Not to forget it doesnt fit with the rest of the song at all, and the sample for the beat is far less impressive than any other Ye sample ever. Who Gon Stop Me is a disappointment for me, but that beat flip makes everything okay.
 
Y

YoungHav

Banned
reilo said:
"Who Gon Stop Me Now" encapsulates everything that's good about Kanye and everything that's bad.

The great? That beat. Love it.

But man, that chorus is some stupid shit. "Something like the holocaust"? That made me cringe the first time I heard it, and then he outdoes himself by rapping in pig latin. This song needs a remix with a new chorus and only Jay's verses.

Am I the only one that feels that way?
Click to expand...
Agree 100%, this is the corniness in Kanye that I despise the most. I'm glad it doesn't rear it's ugly head throughout the album. I also hate his stupid, HUH!? He adds to his lines. Song is a mess.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Jay's flow on HAM is spot on even if I don't necessarily like the song and beat. But that's the difference between Jay and Kanye -- Kanye could never pull off a verse like that, and that's okay as long as he knows his limitations.
 
DangerStepp

DangerStepp

Member
kamspy said:
A lot of people are gonna agree with that Reilo, but that's just Kanye. He always shoots like, above the stars. So shit like "something like the holocaust" is a byproduct of that reach. You gotta take the good with the bad. I love the absurd pig latin verses.

I think the Blades of Glory samples in NIP were meant to try and make some people understand stuff like that, but from reading the thread a lot of people glazed right over them.


But what I need, is a Living So Italian leak.
Click to expand...

First I've heard of this... who dat?
 
DangerStepp

DangerStepp

Member
kamspy said:
The sample didn't clear so they couldn't put it on the record. It was on the early track lists.
Click to expand...
Didn't know that, but I would like to hear it as well. Speaking of, I'd love to hear a dose of b-sides from Kanye's past work, too. Cuts from TCD and LR would be cool to hear. Then again, I'm sure whatever is left on the cutting room floor was later used or is to be used later in other stuff. Be it his own or some other artist he produces.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
reilo said:
"Who Gon Stop Me Now" encapsulates everything that's good about Kanye and everything that's bad.

The great? That beat. Love it.

But man, that chorus is some stupid shit. "Something like the holocaust"? That made me cringe the first time I heard it, and then he outdoes himself by rapping in pig latin. This song needs a remix with a new chorus and only Jay's verses.

Am I the only one that feels that way?
Click to expand...


Personally him saying that doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I take it as a figure of speech. I didn't think he literally thought that.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
mckmas8808 said:
Personally him saying that doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. I take it as a figure of speech. I didn't think he literally thought that.
Click to expand...
You do realize this is Kanye West we are talking about, right?
 
Y

YoungHav

Banned
reilo said:
Jay's flow on HAM is spot on even if I don't necessarily like the song and beat. But that's the difference between Jay and Kanye -- Kanye could never pull off a verse like that, and that's okay as long as he knows his limitations.
Click to expand...
but but but Kanye is better than Jay-Z, who is also a washed up has been apparently.

And what does a Palestinian ancient Jew named Jesus have to do with making it in America? What a fucking chorus.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
YoungHav said:
but but but Kanye is better than Jay-Z, who is also a washed up has been apparently.
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lol.

The only thing Kanye is better at than Jay-Z is producing -- something Jay has never done.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
reilo said:
You do realize this is Kanye West we are talking about, right?
Click to expand...


Yeah I know. But come on! No way Kanye thinks that song is as big/important or life shifting as the Holocaust.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
mckmas8808 said:
Yeah I know. But come on! No way Kanye thinks that song is as big/important or life shifting as the Holocaust.
Click to expand...
Huh, I don't think anyone said as much.

But the use of the word "holocaust" with such an indifferent attitude is just cringeworthy. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
reilo said:
Huh, I don't think anyone said as much.

But the use of the word "holocaust" with such an indifferent attitude is just cringeworthy. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...


I guess it differs with each person's background maybe? I can see why you'd feel that way though.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
mckmas8808 said:
I guess it differs with each person's background maybe? I can see why you'd feel that way though.
Click to expand...
I don't think background is as important, although my background might play into it.

What matters is to know what context words hold. The word "holocaust" holds a much higher context than many words in our daily language. It's also why it is frowned upon to compare people to the Nazi party with the same recklessness because it signifies a lack of understanding and contextual importance to such comparisons.
 
Y

YoungHav

Banned
That holocaust shit is fucking stupid. What is something like the holocaust? stfu Kanye. Last time I smh/cringed at some dumb rap shit was Lil Wayne's Work It Like A Slave. They shoulda invented a time machine just to put that lil nigga on a plantation for a year.
 
R

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
YoungHav said:
That holocaust shit is fucking stupid. What is something like the holocaust? stfu Kanye. Last time I smh/cringed at some dumb rap shit was Lil Wayne's Work It Like A Slave. They shoulda invented a time machine just to put that lil nigga on a plantation for a year.
Click to expand...
Oh my
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
kamspy said:
I'm really shocked by your overall take on WTT enzo. Figured you'd like it more. Are you a Jay fan?
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I am a moderate Jay fan. I think Jay has some really strong verses on this album, some better than anything he's done since the Black Album.

I love WTT, don't get me wrong, I think it's easily above average and personally one of the best releases this year I've listened to, but from a Jay and Ye project I expected a little more.. cohesion, with a large part of it being that this is a bit of a step down from MBDTF which I thought was a masterpiece that was crafted and sequenced with great care (let's not get into debating that again, it's my personal opinion). The album has some bangers and then it tries to mix things up by having some real talk on there, but it feels like a casualty of the process. They initially had grand aspirations and this was supposed to be more of a conscious, black-empowerment kind of album. Then, straight from the mouth of Jay, they thought it needed to be "more enjoyable" to listen to. I think this is why we got Lift Off namely. They toned it down, they added the bangers. So essentially in the final product we got the best of both worlds so to speak, like a greatest hits of the WTT sessions.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I expected something different. It's weird seeing Murder To Excellence next to Who Gon Stop Me. The transition between the two is godlike but the songs contrast eachother so bad, and not in a complimentary kind of way. I expected a longer That's My Bitch akin to the leak, not a truncated version, this was the track I was most excited about and it felt tamed.

Summary of my problems with WTT:
- Intentionally toned down from original vision, still claims to be bold, when it isn't really as "bold" was really what they pulled back from.
- Either the sequencing on the latter half of the album isn't up to snuff, or the songs seemed to be pulled from two different pools and mashed together to create a "Best of" of the WTT sessions.
- That's My Bitch, the song I was most excited about, has been abruptly shortened, tamed.
- Who Gon Stop Me issues described in earlier post.

All I can remember at the moment, I'm sure I'm forgetting something. Everything else about WTT? S tier. Production, use of features, lyrics, ability to bump these songs anywhere, everything.
 
B

Byakuya769

Member
reilo said:
Huh, I don't think anyone said as much.

But the use of the word "holocaust" with such an indifferent attitude is just cringeworthy. Nothing more, nothing less.
Click to expand...

Yea insensitive, superfluous, and fucking stupid. I cannot stand that line.
 
E

ecurbj

Member
man, i have been following this thread for a hot minute (been lurking). now deciding to add my opinion on their collaboration. here we go:

i'm a recent jay-z fan. always been a kanye west. loved his beats and lyrics. mad props to him from me. jay-z has this 'i'm great and no one can take me down' aspect about him.

the album is sick. i can't say i didn't like one track. but i'm going to rate the tracks:

1) No Church in the Wild 9/10 (Great intro)
2) Lift Off 8/10 (Didn't really understand this song with Beyonce in it)
3) Ni**as in Paris 10/10 (Balls so hard! Motherf**kers wanna find me! That sh^t cray! lol)
4) Otis 8/10 (Radio beat this to death, i hate the radio)
5) Gotta Have It 10/10 (Wish this was a lot longer, beat was on point
6) New Day 9/10 (Kanye did good on this track)
7) That's My B**tch 8/10
8) Who Gon Stop Me 8/10
9) Murder to Excellence 10/10 (Track was absolutely FIRE!)
10) Welcome to the Jungle 9/10
11) Made in America 10/10 (I like this song, didn't understand it though)
12) Why I Love You 9/10
13) Illest Motherf*ker Alive 10/10 *****/5 for me!
14) H-A-M (What tha f*ck you mad at me for? lol) 10/10
15) Primetime 9/10
16) The Joy 9/10

Album overall: 9/10

Loved the album. made a huge mistake buying the clean/standard version. So i decided to by the explicit/deluxe version because it was intended to be like that from the beginning by the music artists and i must say i love it. I'm looking forward to their future collaborations.
 
K

kamspy

Member
I'm the opposite on the WTT vs MDBTF fence Enzo.

Kanye sold MDBTF as a pure hip hop "boom bap" album when POWER came out. The net result was a project focused around AOTL and Runaway, which are about the furthest things I can derive from his original pitch.

WTT is just so clean and tightly knit. Even the interludes work like coffee beans at a wine tasting event. They're used to cleanse the pallet between songs that have dissimilar sounds. If you listen to it as a whole, the interlude is only used between songs that have vastly different sounds.
 
Miggytronz

Miggytronz

Member
tumblr_lqo32a2zLX1qgesyao1_500.gif


tumblr_lqo32a2zLX1qgesyao2_500.png
 
A

Ashhong

Member
and that was just the VMAs. fucking imagine what they are going to do for the tour. holy shit. why dont artists put their tours on DVD/Blurays anymore?! I cant go to the show and would love love love a bluray of it.
 
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