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[The Return of]

Biggie had arguably the best hip hop album ever in RTD, but LAD was so terrible in so many ways that it really tarnished his legacy IMO. It doesn't help that Puff has further fucked his legacy with Duets.

Some of my favorite biggie songs are on LTD

I don't really count shit that is released after an artist dies, because I feel like those verses/songs they released are songs that the artist probably didn't want to put out because they weren't pleased with what they made.

 

[DominoKid]

Why? Jesus Pac was great but he wasn't the end all be all. Kanyes not some up and comer either, he's already got a decade and what 6 albums under his belt?

and a whole lot of memorable production for other rappers too.

 

[billy beane]

I don't know about Kanye> Pac.....

but I can see someone saying Kanye> Biggie just because of the albums Biggie has put out.

How can Kanye not be better than Pac, but better than Biggie when Biggie is better than Pac?

BTW, Biggie is the GOAT as far I'm concerned. Kanye is probably my favorite current hip-hop artist though.

 

[The Return of]

How can Kanye not be better than Pac, but better than Biggie when Biggie is better than Pac?

BTW, Biggie is the GOAT as far I'm concerned. Kanye is probably my favorite current hip-hop artist though.

I just said why

"Because of the albums Biggie put out"

Some people would put Kanye above someone like biggie, because he has more quality albums out.

 

[billy beane]

I just said why

"Because of the albums Biggie put out"

Some people would put Kanye above someone like biggie, because he has more quality albums out.

I knew what you meant. It was a poor attempt at a joke, but whatever.

I guess people could come to that conclusion. However, Ready to Die is better than every Kanye album.

I also don't think any Tupac album is a "classic". I mostly just enjoy a great deal if his songs.

 

[The Return of]

I knew what you meant. It was a poor attempt at a joke, but whatever.

I guess people could come to that conclusion. However, Ready to Die is better than every Kanye album.

I also don't think any Tupac album is a "classic". I mostly just enjoy a great deal if his songs.

I was close to making comments about how 2pac is better, but I edited out my last post to avoid turning this thread into Biggie vs 2pac haha.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I knew what you meant. It was a poor attempt at a joke, but whatever.

I guess people could come to that conclusion. However, Ready to Die is better than every Kanye album.

I also don't think any Tupac album is a "classic". I mostly just enjoy a great deal if his songs.

I'm the biggest 2pac stan but I can pretty much agree. While All Eyes On Me is definitely "classic" in terms of his impact, it has a handful of filler tracks. In terms of output, Pac has a shit ton of amazing songs - perhaps more than any other rapper. But album wise he's lacking due to questionable guest appearances and for-the-ladies filler.

Still, his best work shits on Kanye. As does Biggie's.

 

[TheOddOne]

Classic.

 

[Recon]

Classic.

I honestly think Makaveli was a classic also. Shit was an insane last album.

 

[enzo_gt]

Why? Jesus Pac was great but he wasn't the end all be all. Kanyes not some up and comer either, he's already got a decade and what 6 albums under his belt?

Because it's a stupid discussion to have. As artists they represent very different things, the only thing they have in common is that they are influential.

What metric do you use to compare Kanye in this era to a legend who had his life cut short at 25? This all leads far too much into regular BS GAF-Hop cycle semantics for my tastes, including the already brewing Biggie/Pac discussion.

 

[soul creator]

standard 2pac vs. Biggie is tired. Gotta approach that shit from a different angle

Junior Mafia vs. Outlawz

Suge Knight vs. Puff Daddy

Notorious Thugs vs. Thug Luv

 

[Meier]

I didn't know there were people who thought this.

808s is his best album. Unquestionably in my eyes.

It falls under the banner of top to bottom classic for me.

 

[soundscream]

standard 2pac vs. Biggie is tired. Gotta approach that shit from a different angle

Junior Mafia vs. Outlawz

Suge Knight vs. Puff Daddy

Notorious Thugs vs. Thug Luv

Thats not even close. Thug Luv had a nice beat with the gun going off every few seconds but Notorious Thugs had BIG speeding up his delivery, and Bone Thugs were better on Notorious Thugs, however Bizzy was better on Thug Luv.

Notorious Thugs

Thug Luv

 

[ShdwDrake]

Martin Luther King died so I could read this post on the internet? Jesus fuck, I'm done. Just take me away

Guys I'm not saying the Kanye is a better rapper. But the shit he writes, produces, and creates for himself and for others make him a better overall artist. In a contest of just raw rapping skill Pac > Kanye. But Kanye is a better overall artist.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Because it's a stupid discussion to have. As artists they represent very different things, the only thing they have in common is that they are influential.

What metric do you use to compare Kanye in this era to a legend who had his life cut short at 25? This all leads far too much into regular BS GAF-Hop cycle semantics for my tastes, including the already brewing Biggie/Pac discussion.

What metric? How about opinion and preference? Shouldn't that be the only metric that matters? All I am saying is it's not blasphemous to put them in the same discussion. People have this attitude like Kanye is still some flash in the pan who's 15 minutes are ticking. He's not Soulja Boy or Lil B. It's like saying you like The Who more than The Beatles.

 

[enzo_gt]

What metric? How about opinion and preference? Shouldn't that be the only metric that matters? All I am saying is it's not blasphemous to put them in the same discussion. People have this attitude like Kanye is still some flash in the pan who's 15 minutes are ticking. He's not Soulja Boy or Lil B. It's like saying you like The Who more than The Beatles.

I'm the one who said earlier in this thread Kanye will be remembered alongside legends like Biggie and Pac. Of course everyone will have differing opinions, but whenever this discussion comes up anywhere it goes go shits quick, just like every other Biggie/Pac, Jay-Z/Nas, Lil Debbie/V-Nasty discussion goes and people get pissed over someone else enjoying something to a different degree under different criteria, and then the thread goes to shit. That's my only problem.

I have no problem with Ashhong and others preferring Kanye over Pac, people have different frames of reference and I respect that. Like how a lot of YeezyGAF isn't part of GAF-Hop. Personally, TCD >>>> Illmatic, but I'm not ready to start riots over that cause inevitably some twat will tell me I am wrong/i should give more respect to the forefathers/I am too young therefore my opinion is invalid/herpderp/listened to the wrong coast growing up. Those twats are the ones that kill discussions.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I'm the one who said earlier in this thread Kanye will be remembered alongside legends like Biggie and Pac. Of course everyone will have differing opinions, but whenever this discussion comes up anywhere it goes go shits quick, just like every other Biggie/Pac, Jay-Z/Nas, Lil Debbie/V-Nasty discussion goes and people get pissed over someone else enjoying something to a different degree under different criteria, and then the thread goes to shit. That's my only problem.

I have no problem with Ashhong and others preferring Kanye over Pac, people have different frames of reference and I respect that. Like how a lot of YeezyGAF isn't part of GAF-Hop. Personally, TCD >>>> Illmatic, but I'm not ready to start riots over that cause inevitably some twat will tell me I am wrong/i should give more respect to the forefathers/I am too young therefore my opinion is invalid/herpderp/listened to the wrong coast growing up. Those twats are the ones that kill discussions.

I got you. And personally, at gunpoint I might put PAC above Kanye (baaaaaarely if at all) but I just don't think it's outlandish to have the discussion, like PhoenixDark's reaction would have you believe. You'd think someone was saying Lil Romeo>2pac or something.

 

[blame space]

 

[spindashing]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. While I may not agree with said opinions, they are only opinions.

In fact, we learn more from people when they have differing opinions.

http://i.imgur.com/W57fm.jpg[img][/quote]
Thank you, Based Blame Space.

 

[madmackem]

How are people looking at the pac v kanye etc etc, is it simply by rap talent? if so no one could put kanye anywhere near the levels of pac and biggie and jay etc.

 

[blame space]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. While I may not agree with said opinions, they are only opinions.

In fact, we learn more from people when they have differing opinions.

nobody wants to have a conversation any more.. they either wanna echo chamber or they wanna get in a fight.

so much emphasis on being right or being first or whatever.. luckily some people still want to actually discuss things, but it's getting harder and harder because of the internet. IMO

"imo" is actually a thing. think about that for a second.

 

[spindashing]

nobody wants to have a conversation any more.. they either wanna echo chamber or they wanna get in a fight.

so much emphasis on being right or being first or whatever.. luckily some people still want to actually discuss things, but it's getting harder and harder because of the internet. IMO

"imo" is actually a thing. think about that for a second.

Seriously. I mean, I took a look at the last page and there was name-calling. It's pretty immature, IMO.

It's probably one of the things I hate the most about GAF and other internet forums in general. No one can have an opinion that strays away from the norm because if they do a whole shitfest of stupidity will arrive.

 

[The Return of]

I like it when people have a whole different opinion....everybody agreeing on stuff like PAC>Kanye or visa versa is a bit boring.

In fact, I wish people wouldn't be so afraid of making comments like that, just because someone will come at them.

It really kills me when I see like 20 different lists of top 10 rappers or something and pretty much the entire top 10 is the same, but maybe in different orders.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I got you. And personally, at gunpoint I might put PAC above Kanye (baaaaaarely if at all) but I just don't think it's outlandish to have the discussion

I'm glad I missed this conversation. That's a craaaaaazy position to take.

But carry on.

 

[KAL2006]

Thats not even close. Thug Luv had a nice beat with the gun going off every few seconds but Notorious Thugs had BIG speeding up his delivery, and Bone Thugs were better on Notorious Thugs, however Bizzy was better on Thug Luv.

Damn it's been so long since I heard Notorious Thugz, I forgot how much I loved that track.

 

[Complex Shadow]

needs more gorillas

 

[spindashing]

I like it when people have a whole different opinion....everybody agreeing on stuff like PAC>Kanye or visa versa is a bit boring.

In fact, I wish people wouldn't be so afraid of making comments like that, just because someone will come at them.

It really kills me when I see like 20 different lists of top 10 rappers or something and pretty much the entire top 10 is the same, but maybe in different orders.

Things like that can make great conversation. I totally agree with all that you said. I can understand people not agreeing with differing opinions, but to do things like namecalling when I'm sure we're all grown men here?

Though, if you're going to have an opinion like that, it would be best to explain yourself too.

 

[soul creator]

lol, I just remembered I did this a while back

Notorious Thugs - A Dramatic Reading

Spoiler

this is now a bone thugs thread

 

[RBelong2Us]

Pac vs Kanye?

Biggie vs Kanye?

Listen tweens that made those comparisons, don't disrespect legends. Kanye is a great talent but when it comes to hip hop, this is really a dumb discussion to even try to bring up.

Comparing some dude that does collabs with Katie Perry to Pac and BIG.....WOW!!!!

 

[blame space]

i think this album marks the death of capitalism in hip-hop.

 

[spindashing]

Pac vs Kanye?

Biggie vs Kanye?

Listen tweens that made those comparisons, don't disrespect legends. Kanye is a great talent but when it comes to hip hop, this is really a dumb discussion to even try to bring up.

Comparing some dude that does collabs with Katie Perry to Pac and BIG.....WOW!!!!

Who's to say that Pac or Biggie wouldn't collaborate with Katy Perry or other pop artists if they were still alive?

Dr. Dre collaborated with Skylar Grey. Snoop Dogg has collaborated with Katy Perry too.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Though, if you're going to have an opinion like that, it would be best to explain yourself too.

The deepest argument I've heard so far is that either people didn't really listen to PAC, so Kanye>Pac or that Kanye is overall a better artist. Which is so vague and stupid.

 

[spindashing]

The deepest argument I've heard so far is that either people didn't really listen to PAC, so Kanye>Pac or that Kanye is overall a better artist. Which is so vague and stupid.

I don't know, I think that's a valid opinion someone can have. They're not discrediting Pac's work, they're just saying that they've listened to more Kanye and that they connect more with Kanye's music to the point that they prefer one artist over the other.

 

[RBelong2Us]

Who's to say that Pac or Biggie wouldn't collaborate with Katy Perry or other pop artists if they were still alive?

Dr. Dre collaborated with Skylar Grey. Snoop Dogg has collaborated with Katy Perry too.

Because it never happened? Pac and BiG didn't go out and make duets with Paula Abdul or whatever pop artist was out at the time. That whole "how do you know" argument is ridiculous. You compare the artists to what they have done, not what they might have done.

 

[RBelong2Us]

I don't know, I think that's a valid opinion someone can have. They're not discrediting Pac's work, they're just saying that they've listened to more Kanye and that they connect more with Kanye's music to the point that they prefer one artist over the other.

If you don't truly listen to ones music than you don't even bring up the argument in the first place. Music or artists I've never really listened to much I wouldn't make some foolish argument proclaiming that an artist i deeply listen to is superior. That's blind.

 

[TheOddOne]

I don't know, I think that's a valid opinion someone can have. They're not discrediting Pac's work, they're just saying that they've listened to more Kanye and that they connect more with Kanye's music to the point that they prefer one artist over the other.

How can you be so certain that A is better then B, while you never even heard B?

 

[KAL2006]

So people are are comparing Kanye/Jay-Z to Pac/Biggie here, damn so this album must have been awesome, maybe I should give it a proper listen when I get the time (only listened to abnout 3 tracks on my mates iPod).

 

[blame space]

listen guys i know every rapper says they're the best, but you i don't think you're actually supposed to argue about it.

 

[spindashing]

Because it never happened? Pac and BiG didn't go out and make duets with Paula Abdul or whatever pop artist was out at the time. That whole "how do you know" argument is ridiculous. You compare the artists to what they have done, not what they might have done.

Ok, I'll concede with that. You're right.

If you don't truly listen to ones music than you don't even bring up the argument in the first place. Music or artists I've never really listened to much I wouldn't make some foolish argument proclaiming that an artist i deeply listen to is superior. That's blind.

People are allowed to have preferences regardless. Now, if someone were to say all of 2Pac's works amounted to nothing and that everything Kanye's done in the recording studio was godlike then I would have to disagree 100%.

If I listen to an old artist, let's use Raekwon for example, and I didn't like him on a first listen, I wouldn't be tempted to listen to him again unless I was bored beyond belief or something. If I was a Katy Perry fan, I'd say that I prefer Katy over Rae.

This is what started it all:

Both Jay and Kanye will be remembered forever. They are right below Biggie and Pac. Me myself I personally like Kanye and Jay more then Pac (puts shield up) but I respect Pac for what he did for the hip hop genre.

It's just an opinion that I'm sure other people out there agree with and many disagree with. Sometimes music just doesn't "click" with people.

How can you be so certain that A is better then B, while you never even heard B?

I don't think anyone is really saying that A is purely better than B in production, MCing, et cetera. I think a better way to put it is that some people prefer listening to Kanye over listening to 2Pac. Then again, I'm only speaking for myself in a devil's advocate role.

 

[Red_Man]

listen guys i know every rapper says they're the best, but you i don't think you're actually supposed to argue about it.

I heard Drakes taking the throne anyways so all these arguments are moot....

 

[blame space]

So people are are comparing Kanye/Jay-Z to Pac/Biggie here, damn so this album must have been awesome, maybe I should give it a proper listen when I get the time (only listened to abnout 3 tracks on my mates iPod).

and this is where we get "overrated" as a criticism

why do you let people spouting comparisons in a triple-figure thread on a forum affect what an album "must have been"?

i can't stop op op op op op op op op op op

 

[spindashing]

So people are are comparing Kanye/Jay-Z to Pac/Biggie here, damn so this album must have been awesome, maybe I should give it a proper listen when I get the time (only listened to abnout 3 tracks on my mates iPod).

I don't think this discussion has anything to do with the quality of the album. But, in the spirit of getting someone to listen to new music, try it out.

 

[Expendable.]

Alright, I'll admit it GAF. I came around just about 100% on this album. After my hype sizzled after the first few listens..a gave it about a week off and came back to it. Still doesn't compare to any solo Kanye albums (cept 808s), but it is a hella fun record.

 

[blame space]

never mind

 

[JumpingTheGun]

Easily one of the better hip hop albums Ive heard in years. The beats and production make some of the songs border on psychedic trip-hop (Im looking at you "Whos Gon Stop Me).

Fav Tracks:

-No Church In the Wild
-Illest Motherfuckers Alive
-Whos Gon Stop Me
-Prime Time
-Thats My Bitch
-Murder to Excellence

 

[Ryaaan14]

It has seriously been like 10+ years since I've really listened to a hip-hop album, and I figured I'd give this one a shot.

Pretty hooked on Niggas in Paris, and No Church in the Wild.

 

[enzo_gt]

Pac vs Kanye?

Biggie vs Kanye?

Listen tweens that made those comparisons, don't disrespect legends. Kanye is a great talent but when it comes to hip hop, this is really a dumb discussion to even try to bring up.

Comparing some dude that does collabs with Katie Perry to Pac and BIG.....WOW!!!!

This is exhibit A of what I'm talking about. This is a legitimate discussion point, but people do this, ruin actual debating and point it towards what I feared the topic would devolve quickly into.

 

[billy beane]

Alright, I'll admit it GAF. I came around just about 100% on this album. After my hype sizzled after the first few listens..a gave it about a week off and came back to it. Still doesn't compare to any solo Kanye albums (cept 808s), but it is a hella fun record.

It is a fun ass album. It's the perfect record for driving too.

 

[louis89]

I'm ignorant.

Why is 2Pac so revered?

 

[MThanded]

Alright, I'll admit it GAF. I came around just about 100% on this album. After my hype sizzled after the first few listens..a gave it about a week off and came back to it. Still doesn't compare to any solo Kanye albums (cept 808s), but it is a hella fun record.

I may be on of the only people who likes 808s. Got damn. Say it aint so.

Edit: Also, WTT has really grown on me.