IceDoesntHelp
Banned
so?
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Keith Richards: Rap is crap, and Metallica and Black Sabbath are a joke
- Thread starter MMarston
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To Far Away Times
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There's 3 or 4 Rolling Stones songs that I like, which I guess is pretty good, but at the same time I think they're hugely over rated.
Up there with Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, etc...? lol.
Up there with Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, etc...? lol.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
In that respect, it was because there was a clearly superior album by a better artist that didn't win, and let's not pretend it was for any other reason than because he was white. Nobody really gave him shit for it, most of the ire was directed at the industry itself. Race will always be an issue in hip-hop because the music largely stemmed from and was written by an oppressed minority. Plenty of white rappers get props from black rappers, including the obvious Eminem. Guys like Kno and Slug have been respected for years in hip-hop.
That's fine that you personally grew out of the genre, but you're not among the 95% of people mine and other posters are directed at, who directly fit the profile I described in my previous post addressing why hip-hop fans get so defensive.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Goes for any genre. The music I listen to gets so much hate because of the screaming, chugging and singing. But there's always bands/artists out there that are actually top notch in their genre, and know what they are doing.
I know everyone has their own opinion, and I'm okay with it, just don't try to force something I don't like down my throat.
You know what I mean?
youre posting in a thread where people are giving "rap is crap" blanket statements, and you're telling us Macklemore should be praised, as if years and years of conscious black rappers aren't constantly ignored (including one rapper that should've won over Macklemore). But appropriation doesn't exist and black people are just whining.
Well...yeah. Since the the 70's the Stones have been widely considered one of the greatest and most important rock bands of all time, Not really a new train of thought.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Being both a metalhead and a hip-hop fan I know exactly what you mean. It just bothers me when people generalize and make blanket statements without actually taking the time to listen to or investigate the genres they're so confident in lambasting. If you don't like it that's cool, but give it a chance before you shut it down.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
The genre is not inclusive(forget about the millions of WHITE hip hop fans for a second here)? You think Eminem is walking around, feeling persecuted, and not respected by black artist, or even influencing them? Or the myriad of other white rappers that continue to exist in this post-macklemore world(many of which exist outside of pop radio too, perhaps seek it out)? My god man, just stop with this noise, acting like you developed some kind of complex because people feel a certain way about some cornball rapper. This little narrative of disliking a genre because of not being able to sing along because of the n-word makes no damn sense, why would this ever even bother you, it's so strange(and yeah, that's what is turning people off, being afraid of singing along.... Right). if you can't ignore that issue that some might have, then you never were actually this so-called hiphop fan in the first place.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Agreed, that's a really silly and uneducated statement to make. Just look at Army of the Pharaohs. Not necessarily the deepest or most innovative rappers in the game, but the squad has white dudes, black dudes, spanish dudes etc...all producing hip-hop together, for everyone. Eso and Reef couldn't be more opposite and they seem to get along just fine. Then you have the whole scene in the UK and Germany just exploding over the past few years.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's pretty nice being open-minded about any and all genre's, being able to find good stuff just about anywhere I look.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
We live in the most ridiculously amazing time for music ever in human history. The amount of accessible tunage is fucking insane thanks to the Internet. I couldn't imagine being stuck buying my records at a local store that I only heard about because of the radio. People who don't take advantage of this by writing off entire genres are wasting so, so much opportunity to expand their horizons.
edit: Children of the Grave just came on randomly on my phone. Anybody who rips Sabbath (early Sabbath anyway) is a fucking mental case. This song is incredible, especially when you consider the musical landscape when it first came out.
IrishNinja
Member
what if i told you that it's okay to not like a given genre but there's an overlap of dismission & general disdain thrown at the genre for decades now that while not all-encompassing would have a fair degree of overlap on some low-key racism
people don't gotta like rap anymore than the next genre, but the CANT SPELL CRAP WITHOUT RAP crowd is worth shitting on & when dozens of replies here outline decades-old tropes on the genre, yeah, that ignorance is worth responding to
you're literally basing this off one example where Mackelmore won over what was basically a modern classic by Kendrick Lamar (which mac even apologized to him about), in the grammy's, an award notoriously terrible for sleeping on some of the genre's finest for decades. that's what you're going off of.
Nevermind the Beasties, El-P, Wall, R.A., Eminem & a ton of white rappers who've been established for a long time that didn't run into this, for a number of reasons more complex then your post implies. there's a lot
you tied this up with a complaint about why can't white folks say "nigga". this is a rather poorly thought-out argument.
see i was gonna say "be sure to check with your local black delegation" but you already fleshed this one out b
yup, this
Dude Abides
Banned
Clearly Keith hasn't heard Iggy Azalea.
Smh
That doesn't mean a damn thing. That's like saying, "Look at all the Asians that like Hollywood movies. Much inclusiveness."
Don't pretend like Eminem didn't get tons of shit when he first came up. Dude had to be one of the best to even survive, if he was just average rapper he would've gotten destroyed.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
To call Insane clown posse mediocre would be a compliment in my book, and yet, they are a-ok. Among other white hip hop artists not even close to Em's level.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
The Beasties were doing it and getting props for doing it long before Em jumped on the scene. Same with the dudes from Atmosphere and Non-Phixion. This just goes to show you haven't really listened to as much hip-hop as you're claiming you had.
Anyway, this thread is just going in circles now. I've said my piece and now I'm basically just repeating myself. I'm out.
\m/ \m/
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Best part of this thread: the Simpsons gifs. Thanks mates.
Truth. Children of the Grave is a fucking masterpiece.
IrishNinja
Member
so would you like a full list of white rappers you've likely not heard of/bothered checking out to wreck your thesis statement there or not?
and yes, some white rappers - particularly crossover pop ones like mackelmore does - are met with opposition. if that strikes you as odd, bear in mind that hip hop comes from inner city NY boroughs, and many don't want to see it done dirty like blues/jazz/etc were done by rock. if that context doesn't do anything for you, it's really safe to say you don't know or care for the subject/history and just keep it movin man.
heh
gafhop singing his praises as we speak too
You're the 3rd person trying to cherry pick my words and take them out of context to prove your point.
If you got, "And why can't white people say the N-word? I'd really like to say it, but I can't.", out of what I actually said, then I don't know what to tell you.
I'm saying the genre is littered with a word that is forbidden for white people to say. It's understandable that the genre would be off putting to some because of that. For me, a grown ass white man, it'd be awkward as hell for me to play that in my car. So I don't.
Pretty much my first thought. Nobody cares what Keith Richards thinks about other styles of music. Being a guitar player, even a great one in one of the most famous bands doesn't make your taste or opinion on things unimpeachable. Pete Townsend proved that years ago.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Exactly. The guys that did it well, and came at it from the right place have always been respected by black artists.
Yeah that's fair. I got caught up in the argument. My high-school self came out for a minute. When I think mainstream I don't immediately think of guys like Kendrick, the RTJ team and such.
EDIT: K I'm actually leaving now. Gunna get wine drunk and make some pasta.
If you don't listen to any mainstream hip-hop on principle then you're not a hip-hop head.
IrishNinja
Member
...so you literally skipped the bulk of my reply, 2 entire paragraphs that others are trying as well (clearly, a pointless endeavor) to reply to one bit, with cussing about how that one bit is being over-emphasized...just to go back & emphasize it yourself.
there's lots of genres that cuss & say shit you might personally find awkward in your car. there's also a lot of hip hop that doesn't use the n-word.
you've now moved onto admitting you don't listen to hip hop, but that you might if it said that word less or people said it was okay or something...i'd like to apologize at this point for replying to you as though you were making these posts in good faith & seeking actual discussion. my bad, have a good weekend.
this here is a much better plan, too. enjoy.
Really? Album is a like a random assortment of shit he recorded on peyote and then pieced together with the prerequisite features.
but even their pop music is filled with depth, penny lane being the best example because it's often cited as the best pop song of all time
also it should be noted that in the 60's pop wasn't necessarily a genre like it is now, it literally just meant popular
edit: just saw your edit ;p
it was a bad analogy if I'm being honest. sorry, I'm a huge fucking beatles nerd
I didn't know Penny Lane was considered the best pop song of all time. I like it, but its not my favorite Beatles song.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
He got a ton of respect to go along with the hate(which can be said about any popular artist), and he continues to be one of the biggest voices in hip-hop, regardless of how I feel about his latest shit. You can continue with the blanket statements though, acting like white people aren't loving this shit, aren't participating, haven't made a respected career in hip-hop, on the mic or producing, because people got upset Macklemore won some irrelevant award, which might've been absolutely baffling if the Grammy's weren't a joke to begin with.
Rodeo has some great tracks. Even Bugatti Biebz brought some heat.
And yes, I'm serious.
Ok, I went a little overboard, but it pissed me off that I kept being completely misunderstood.
I'm done too. This is exhausting. Have a wonderful day, enjoy your weekend, and be safe out there.
Even the last shitty Kid Cudi album had some alright songs.
IrishNinja
Member
i know tensions are high but let's not say shit we don't mean fam
It's not about ignorance of the genre. Dismissing an entire genre is pretty common. How much knowledge does the average rap fan have about modern jazz or modern country?
There's the occasional rap song I hear that is interesting but I never cared for much of it since the 90's. There was a thread about the top hip hop and rap albums so I tried Dark Twisted Fantasy and a couple of others. Again, it just confirmed that I didn't really care for it and it was enough for me determine that I'm pretty sure that I'm never going to enjoy 99% of rap music no matter how much new music is made.
I don't think it's unreasonable for a person to dismiss an entire genre and they don't need to keep trying and trying to find something they might like because rap fans think they're just ignorant of the genre. They stick to their preferred genres and completely ignore others. If they've done this 20 years ago, then they're going to continue to do it now. That's not ignorance, that's just genre preference.
If a rap fan is going to dismiss the entire jazz genre without ever trying any album of the different jazz styles throughout decades of jazz music, then it shouldn't be such a surprise that people do the same with rap. People will dismiss jazz based on one or two minutes of the music. That's OK.
If you think jazz is crap, that's OK. If people think rap is crap, that's OK too.
There's the occasional rap song I hear that is interesting but I never cared for much of it since the 90's. There was a thread about the top hip hop and rap albums so I tried Dark Twisted Fantasy and a couple of others. Again, it just confirmed that I didn't really care for it and it was enough for me determine that I'm pretty sure that I'm never going to enjoy 99% of rap music no matter how much new music is made.
I don't think it's unreasonable for a person to dismiss an entire genre and they don't need to keep trying and trying to find something they might like because rap fans think they're just ignorant of the genre. They stick to their preferred genres and completely ignore others. If they've done this 20 years ago, then they're going to continue to do it now. That's not ignorance, that's just genre preference.
If a rap fan is going to dismiss the entire jazz genre without ever trying any album of the different jazz styles throughout decades of jazz music, then it shouldn't be such a surprise that people do the same with rap. People will dismiss jazz based on one or two minutes of the music. That's OK.
If you think jazz is crap, that's OK. If people think rap is crap, that's OK too.
I didn't click on the link. Is this from a obscure British sketch show that didn't make it past 7 episodes?
I get what you're saying, I just think we get defensive because some people's complaints about rap can be a little bizarre or stem from something more sinister compared to complaints about other genres (aka racism).
I'm not saying everyone who dislikes rap is prejudiced or racist, not even close, but it's out there.
IrishNinja
Member
i'd argue that jazz's influences on (especially 90's NY) hip hop production is pretty strong, but i take your point here. there is, however, a fair difference between saying a genre isn't for you and saying it's outright shit, or in the case of hip hop for many years "not real music". my issue's more with the latter.
I use the jazz comparison because most of my life I've heard plenty of people say that jazz is shit and not real music. I get some weird looks and stupid comments when people hear what I've been listening too. It's happened so often that I'm not surprised it happens and not offended when it does. I've been driving in the car playing jazz, and people on the street will ask me what the fuck is that shit?
Both jazz and rap are very different from what most people consider mainstream music. It shouldn't be surprising that opinions can get very negative about it. They are genre that a lot of people literally hate.
Jazz is widely considered cool outside of the "smooth jazz" sub genre (especially so in most liberally minded college campuses). Country music and classical have always been the most written off and dismissed genres. It was always "I like everything except country and classical." For what it's worth, I like a lot of country/alt-country/folk music. I didn't appreciate it until much later in life. Your tastes should expand as you get older, not focus.
IrishNinja
Member
...man, ive seen people not care for the genre, but "not real music" is so weird to hear...a lot of the tired rap criticisms were people on about how real music needs instruments. that really is my first time hearing that...if you don't mind my asking, about where do you live?
i just can't wrap my head around someone hearing something like Kind of Blue and actively shitting on it, much less arguing that it's not music.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I'd take Stones over both of those personally. Beatles never did anything for me and Zep bores me musically, and I hate Plant's wailing too.
Anyway, five pages about Richards commenting on music? Wtf. Music is subjective. I don't give a shit if someone doesn't like my preferred genres.
I live in Canada and have known very few people that were into jazz. And being older, my social circle pretty much think it's junk. In the bigger cities jazz was/is more prevalent, but in my town growing up there were 2 radio stations... rock and country. Jazz was alien weirdo music. Now there are jazz festivals in most of the big cities.
At the very least people need to listen to Miles Davis. Friggin' genius.
ginger ninja
Banned
And the weird thing is, I was expecting the crowd to be mostly old fans but nope, 50% were easily below 30 like me. Although what Keith said is stupid and doesn't serve any purpose.
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