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[Kid Kamikaze10]

then I don't think you understand it.

Ok, if you insist, explain then.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

then I don't think you understand it.

Enlighten us then.

 

[JoeNut]

people arguing about it on gaf are as bad as the guy saying it, it's an opinion, he and everyone else is entitled to one. just move on from it

 

[Currygan]

Enlighten us then.

dark humour. I mean, it's dark for a reason. You are free to not appreciate it, of course

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

dark humour. I mean, it's dark for a reason. You are free to not appreciate it, of course

Ok then. But you and others said we don't understand it. That's different than not appreciating it.

Willing to provide some insight?

 

[beato_angelico]

I continue to not understand why people are not just posting "old man says something stupid", but iinstead are throwing personal insults to richards.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

dark humour. I mean, it's dark for a reason. You are free to not appreciate it, of course

You don't think that we understood it was suppose to be that? Really? The point we were making that its an extremely telling quote because it is A) not funny and B) ignorant of the fact that gangster rap and the violence of life in the hood are legitimate subjects of discussion. I dunno how you can claim rappers have nothing to say then insult gangster rap which is literally a manefestation of life in the hood.

Again. Its not that I can't handle people not like rap, it's that this is literally just condescending. Something like "Dance with the Devil" by immortal tehnique would fall under gangster rap but it's entirely ignorant to claim that because it mentions selling drugs and killing people its devoid of meaning.

 

[Cindres]

There is rap played by live performance bands and rock done entirely on computers. It is not really an inherent trait for either genre

Man I saw Kendrick at the weekend and he was incredible. Think the fact he had a band with him really did it for me though I was super looking forward to him already. Sounds way better than when hip hop acts just have a dude with a macbook and then rap over their own songs.

 

[Currygan]

Ok then. But you and others said we don't understand it. That's different than not appreciating it.

Willing to provide some insight?

by saying that you don't tolerate it, it's likely you don't understand it. Black humour, especially British, doesn't accept any boundaries, it makes fun of absolutely everything, from religion to death to incest to rape, to race issues. Political, social and verbal correctness doesn't exist in that universe, and, just to be clear, for the most part, English people love to make fun of themselves first. you can find comedians of every race or social background doing it. it's the way it's always been in the last thousand years, and probably even before that, and of course there will be people who would get offended by it, but I assure you, racism of any form is much less frequent than it may appear, otherwise this country would be drowning in lawsuits

I'll give you a recent example: remember Ricky Gervais at the globes? the outrage, the angry stares, the infuriated columns from the American press and vips? that's exactly it

 

[aerts1js]

Cool. People his age are still going to see them struggle along. All right.

That doesn't equate to relevance. They haven't released an album in ten years, and it has been more than twenty years since they released an album anyone actually cared about.

They're at their sold-out shows playing songs that are older than we are.

Stop making up your own idea of relevance. The Stones still sell out stadiums and his band is more successful than 95% of the bands out there.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

by saying that you don't tolerate it, it's likely you don't understand it. Black humour, especially British, doesn't accept any boundaries, it makes fun of absolutely everything, from religion to death to incest to rape, to race issues. Political, social and verbal correctness doesn't exist in that universe, and, just to be clear, for the most part, English people love to make fun of themselves first. you can find comedians of every race or social background doing it. it's the way it's always been in the last thousand years, and probably even before that, and of course there will be people who would get offended by it, but I assure you, racism of any form is much less frequent than it may appear, otherwise this country would be drowning in lawsuits

I'll give you a recent example: remember Ricky Gervais at the globes? the outrage, the angry stares, the infuriated columns from the American press and vips? that's exactly it

You've essentially said its comedy therefore its okay. We get that it's suppose to be funny. Newsflash, not all jokes are funny. Just because anything goes it does not imply everything is funny. Just because something ellicits a laugh it does not mean it is not damaging.

I think we get it, I think the issue is that we are challenging it on the basis of stupid.

 

[The_Poet]

Gonna agree with Keith on this one.

 

[verdures]

When the Stones were coming up, old people were saying almost identical shit about the music he was making. So he's either showing a cretinous lack of perspective, especially as a notable musician and public figure, or he's taking the piss to rile people up. Or maybe he seems himself as some part of a great cycle where an older generation or member of a different culture takes reductive swipes at the younger generation/other culture, possibly because there's a solo album to sell, damnit.

 

[jmdajr]

I'll send him some LimpBizkit Vinyls.

 

[The Beard]

As a white person it's pretty easy to get turned off by the genre to be honest, especially mainstream hip hop.

If you participate, you're more than likely going to be accused of appropriating black culture.

The use/overuse of the N word makes it uncomfortable/awkward to sing along to many songs.

 

[blame space]

pretty shocked that this old guy has an old-fashioned viewpoint of contemporary popular music.

 

[IrishNinja]

people arguing about it on gaf are as bad as the guy saying it, it's an opinion, he and everyone else is entitled to one. just move on from it

opinions aren't equal, certainly not ones coming from a place of ignorance. they're likewise not free from scrutiny - nevermind the fact that discussion on an actual discussion board seems pretty natural

As a white person it's pretty easy to get turned off by the genre to be honest, especially mainstream hip hop.

If you participate, you're more than likely going to be accused of appropriating black culture.

like this assumption, right here - it has nearly no basis in reality. arriving at a silly conclusion like this on your own doesn't = "just his opinion bro, he's entitled to it/move on" status...it's crap

 

[Fugu]

As a white person it's pretty easy to get turned off by the genre to be honest, especially mainstream hip hop.

If you participate, you're more than likely going to be accused of appropriating black culture.

The use/overuse of the N word makes it uncomfortable/awkward to sing along to many songs.

As a white person, I can't tell if this post is serious or not.

When the Stones were coming up, old people were saying almost identical shit about the music he was making. So he's either showing a cretinous lack of perspective, especially as a notable musician and public figure, or he's taking the piss to rile people up. Or maybe he seems himself as some part of a great cycle where an older generation or member of a different culture takes reductive swipes at the younger generation/other culture, possibly because there's a solo album to sell, damnit.

The argument that some "music" is actually noise being branded as music is so incredibly common (and also so incredibly wrong) and, for a lot of people, comes out at some threshold or another. It's always a bullshit argument, and the line between noise and music will always be blurry (if it even exists at all).

It's an attractive opinion though, especially for musicians who think a lot of themselves. A lot of really prominent jazz musicians said some real dumb shit in the early sixties in response to free jazz.

As an aside, people who believe that rap and heavy metal, with their conventional western rhythms, harmonies and melodies come anywhere close to redefining the frontier of noise and music really need to broaden their horizons. Look up John Cage. Hell, you don't even have to go that far down the rabbit hole -- listen to Ornette Coleman or Meditations by John Coltrane. Metal fans can look at the Dillinger Escape plan to get an idea of how far removed rap music (and, indeed, avant-garde metal) is from the "is it music?" debate.

 

[The Beard]

opinions aren't equal, certainly not ones coming from a place of ignorance. they're likewise not free from scrutiny - nevermind the fact that discussion on an actual discussion board seems pretty natural



like this assumption, right here - it has nearly no basis in reality. arriving at a silly conclusion like this on your own doesn't = "just his opinion bro, he's entitled to it/move on" status...it's crap

As a white person, I can't tell if this post is serious or not.

I must live in an alternate universe where white rappers get accused of culture appropriation. Where Macklemore has to "know his place". If a white rapper wins an award in the genre, it's met with anger and outrage. This alternate universe where many songs are peppered with the N word, and where it's forbidden for white people to say.

Sorry for the confusion guys. Thanks.

 

[Fjordson]

Atypical instruments? You have obviously never listened to Aftermath, between the the buttons, or Satanic majesties. If you had, you'd realize that Brian Jones played tons of different instruments all over those albums.. Sitar, marimbas, harpsichord, mellotron, flute, dulcimer, slide guitar, plus more...

To dismiss the stones as an imitative pop band is incredibly stupid. Yet you went there.

Seriously...some of the comments in here are mind blowingly off base.

Keith making these comments despite probably not listening to any modern rap is ignorant, but some of the comments in here about the Stones seem guilty of the same thing lol. They didn't become on of the biggest bands in history by accident.

 

[Dram]

This alternate universe where many songs are peppered with the N word, and where it's forbidden for white people to say.

Why would you be upset you can't say the N-word?

 

[The Beard]

Why would you be upset you can't say the N-word?

I don't say it, and I don't want to. That's my point. It makes singing (rapping) along awkward.

 

[see5harp]

The best shit is going to music festivals where 99% of the audience is non black and they always have the most street oriented rappers on stage. It'll be like here Neko Case, some folk guitar player, some minimal techno DJ, and then Freddie Gibbs gets up and does Pronto.

"that's how you niggas supposed to ride!!"

/sea of white hands go up in agreement

 

[Winter John]

I understood the reference. It really is not funny. Maybe he needs to see what living in the hood is like to maybe grasp why actual ganster rap is so violent and aggressive. These are the types of comments that people who dont know anythimg about hip hop and rap think are witty and clever but are actually just dumb.

These are the stupid comments people who like rap constantly have to hear. Like, life in the hood wih gangs and people killing each other over territory is not in the least bit funny. Music that actually talks about this shit is seen as glorifying violence as opposed to statimg reality. I think it isnt funny, its actually just clueless ignorance.

I didn't say his comment was funny. I said his comment was specifically directed at gangster rap.

 

[Infinite]

Nobody cares about your opinions on rap.

 

[DataStream]

The Stones have always been cocky bastards who like to get people riled up. Unfortunately, their music hasn't really warranted their ego since the very early 70s.

 

[Bacon]

I don't say it, and I don't want to. That's my point. It makes singing (rapping) along awkward.

Wow, that must be hard for you

 

[YuShtink]

People seriously crapping on the Stones?

Their music has always been boring as hell to me. Hated it when I was a kid and still hate it now. Just boring, weak, meandering bullshit. And all of the members' personalities make them even worse. Terrible people. Terrible band.

 

[Fjordson]

Their music has always been boring as hell to me. Hated it when I was a kid and still hate it now. Just boring, weak, meandering bullshit. And all of the members' personalities make them even worse. Terrible people. Terrible band.

All of this is super wrong, but what do you mean specifically by "meandering" lol

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

I don't say it, and I don't want to. That's my point. It makes singing (rapping) along awkward.

Chris rock said it's ok.

 

[Obscura]

The funny part is people are going to bite on this obvious troll.

Just because he made statements that many wouldn't agree with doesn't mean you need to assume he's being a troll. I don't understand this mentality. Does it make more sense that he's trolling or just a bitter old man who is known to complain as bitter old men do?

Also....

IOMMI IS LOVE
IOMMI IS LIFE

 

[see5harp]

I feel like it's perfectly okay to say it if the context of the song makes sense to say it. If it's some hill billy KKK folk song about hanging and lynching people well then that's not really cool. If it's someone referring to murdering people (lyrically, of course), or talking about your best friend who you will die for, then using the word is entirely appropriate and fine to use if there's an understanding between you and your black friends that you are not a racist person.

 

[Switch Back 9]

I feel like it's perfectly okay to say it if the context of the song makes sense to say it. If it's some hill billy KKK folk song about hanging and lynching people well then that's not really cool. If it's someone referring to murdering people (lyrically, of course), or talking about your best friend who you will die for, then using the word is entirely appropriate and fine to use if there's an understanding between you and your black friends that you are not a racist person.

I'm a 30-year-old white kid from the 'burbs who came up in the 90s with Hip-Hop as my main defining genre of music. Hell, a few of my buddies have gone on to be moderately successful (locally speaking) rappers themselves. At no point did any of them think it was cool to drop N-bombs, even casually. It's just one of those things you don't do, don't use in your rhyme scheme and move on. It wasn't even a "My black friends would be cool with it" kind of thing, it's just a respect issue.

IOMMI IS LOVE
IOMMI IS LIFE

Yeah brother. Iommi shits on Richards.

 

[EloquentM]

Just did some research, and Keith has said FAR worse about Rap music

This being the main offender.



Really?

and yet we got people in here saying "people always have to make it about race?" This man has a history of mooching off of black people and saying racist shit about them.

 

[see5harp]

I'm a 30-year-old white kid from the 'burbs who came up in the 90s with Hip-Hop as my main defining genre of music. Hell, a few of my buddies have gone on to be moderately successful (locally speaking) rappers themselves. At no point did any of them think it was cool to drop N-bombs, even casually. It's just one of those things you don't do, don't use in your rhyme scheme and move on. It wasn't even a "My black friends would be cool with it" kind of thing, it's just a respect issue.

Even if what I said wasn't partially a joke, I don't think white rappers can say it. I'm saying if you're singing along to a song in your house or in your car it's fine to say. The black ghost of Christmas future isn't going to just pop up and show you what your life was going to be had you not sung along to that Rae Stremmurd anthem.

 

[Switch Back 9]

Even if what I said wasn't partially a joke, I don't think white rappers can say it. I'm saying if you're singing along to a song in your house or in your car it's fine to say. The black ghost of Christmas future isn't going to just pop up and show you what your life was going to be had you not sung along to that Rae Stremmurd anthem.

Haha, gotcha. Hard to tell sarcasm with text sometimes.

 

[FonkyByNature]

people arguing about it on gaf are as bad as the guy saying it, it's an opinion, he and everyone else is entitled to one. just move on from it

So you're saying we should not talk about it ? So anything that happens in this world, wether it's racist, stupid (like in this case) or ignorant, we should just accept it and move on ? man, we're not gonna get that far in this world if we think that way.

This guy is a public personality, his words will always go up against him. He said stupid and ignorant things and we're calling him out, easy...

 

[Switch Back 9]

So you're saying we should not talk about it ? So anything that happens in this world, wether it's racist, stupid (like in this case) or ignorant, we should just accept it and move on ? man, we're not gonna get that far in this world if we think that way.

This guy is a public personality, his words will always go up against him. He said stupid and ignorant things and we're calling him out, easy...

Wouldn't be much of a discussion board if we just didn't talk about things lol.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

As a white person it's pretty easy to get turned off by the genre to be honest, especially mainstream hip hop.

If you participate, you're more than likely going to be accused of appropriating black culture.

The use/overuse of the N word makes it uncomfortable/awkward to sing along to many songs.

Oh man, this thread.

 

[The Beard]

Oh man, this thread.

Nice argument.

 

[GravityMan]

Huh. Almost none of the rappers I listen to yell over the beat. They talk in normal voices.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Metallica fans read this, shrug, move on from the thread. Rap fans, get up in arms about getting made fun of even though they are more in the main stream.

Black Sabbath fan are probably the most well adjusted people I know, just avoid talking about Sabbath.


Sophie the First has rap. If you have white kids in Kanas City rapping, you made it. Don't worry guys.

See, see5harp, gets it! Come on guys, dont get upset and have a Juice Box!

 

[see5harp]

You accept all of the silly stuff like "bitches and hos," references to murder and killing, obscene language, and mostly silly lyrics because of the positive stuff like energy, production, clever punch lines, and vocal delivery. Not everything is going to have a message just like not all rock songs have a message. A lot of rock songs are really just celebrating youth and sex. Hell, some of The Rolling Stones' best songs are just that. That's the whole point of being young. In fact, sometimes I wish some stuff was less political. I love the D'angelo album but when I'm driving to work sometimes I just want some good old sexy love songs so I'll throw on Tinashe. Every day isn't a Paul Simon day.

 

[The Beard]

Metallica fans read this, shrug, move on from the thread. Rap fans, get up in arms about getting made fun of even though they are more in the main stream.

Black Sabbath fan are probably the most well adjusted people I know, just avoid talking about Sabbath.


Sophie the First has rap. If you have white kids in Kanas City rapping, you made it. Don't worry guys.

See, see5harp, gets it! Come on guys, dont get upset and have a Juice Box!

Hip hop fans have got to be the most sensitive fans of any genre.

You give them reasons why people are turned off by it and all they do is come up with dismissive comments, "Oh my god, this thread. Really?", "All opinions aren't equal. Your opinion is shit.".

 

[Switch Back 9]

Hip hop fans have got to be the most sensitive fans of any genre.

You give them reasons why people are turned off by it and all they do is come up with dismissive comments, "Oh my god, this thread. Really?", "All opinions aren't equal. Your opinion is shit.".

Because, as has been stated a million times already in this thread, people judge the entire genre MORESO than any other genre (except maybe country) on a handful of songs or artists. It's annoying and we're defensive for a reason; hearing "That music you love so much is fucking garbage even though I've only listened to that one Lil Wayne track" over and over again begins to grate on you after a while. There's a reason the old running joke of "I listen to everything, except country and rap" is a thing.

This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Metal fans get it too, but to a lesser degree. It's almost always said in a condescending and ignorant way as well. It's the people spouting shit like that who are being "dismissive".

 

[Vicetrailia]

For what people say rap is bad about, the same parallels can be drawn to rock, country, etc.

But mainstream music in general is simple, for a very simple reason.

For most genres there is too much out there that you don't see, but if you ask you will get what you have not easily encountered. But people don't wanna talk about that. And why not?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Nice argument.

It's cute you think you actually deserve anything more than that.

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Wait, Rap fans are defensive?

Uh... Pop fans anyone? Beliebers, Directioners, Swifties, and oh god, K-Pop fanbases?


Rap fans don't got shit on them in terms of rabid defensiveness.


If anything, Rap fans are like country fans; fans of a genre of music routinely shat on, but are still mainstream.

 

[The Beard]

Because, as has been stated a million times already in this thread, people judge the entire genre MORESO than any other genre (except maybe country) on a handful of songs or artists. It's annoying and we're defensive for a reason; hearing "That music you love so much is fucking garbage even though I've only listened to that one Lil Wayne track" over and over again begins to grate on you after a while. There's a reason the old running joke of "I listen to everything, except country and rap" is a thing.

This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Metal fans get it too, but to a lesser degree. It's almost always said in a condescending and ignorant way as well. It's the people spouting shit like that who are being "dismissive".

I'll Repost my comment from the last page, because no one even attempted to touch it, I just got bullshit comments like DontBeThatGuys below.

I must live in an alternate universe where white rappers get accused of culture appropriation. Where Macklemore has to "know his place". If a white rapper wins an award in the genre, it's met with anger and outrage. This alternate universe where many songs are peppered with the N word, and where it's forbidden for white people to say.

The genre is not inclusive. Some people are turned off by that. Whats so hard to understand? I used to listen to hip hop almost exclusively from my teens to early twenties. I've heard more than 1 Lil Wayne song to form my opinion. I mostly grew out of the genre. It's just not for me anymore.

It's cute you think you actually deserve anything more than that.

 

[Switch Back 9]

Wait, Rap fans are defensive?

Uh... Pop fans anyone? Beliebers, Directioners, Swifties, and oh god, K-Pop fanbases?


Rap fans don't got shit on them in terms of rabid defensiveness.


If anything, Rap fans are like country fans; fans of a genre of music routinely shat on, but are still mainstream.

EDITED: It's funny, most heads don't listen to much mainstream hip-hop. We feel the same way about it as a lot of the haters in this thread. That's another reason we get so defensive. It's like someone coming out and saying "I've only listened to Nickleback but man all of rock music is fucking terrible."