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[MormaPope]

Kickstarter is a great idea and excellent games came out from it, but it seems that the great games are the exception, and the cancelled projects / scams are the norm.

Not the case at all. Long awaited or wanted titles getting the chance to exist hypes people up, people back the game, enough money is pooled to fund development. That is usually the peak of hype when it comes to kickstarter games. Originally hyped game gets released, is good, okay, great, terrible, whatever, but besides the original exposure the game itself gets lost in the sea of other releases.

Kickstarter games have the same chance or probability of relative quality compared to every other game. That reality being realized probably made some of original magic fade away.

 

[ZoddGutts]

Hey, if Double Fine tries to kickstart Psychonauts 2, then you would see numbers spike.

But if you ask me, they should just grab some cash off of Notch, since he can easily help them out.

Notch no longer has the excuse to not fund Psychonauts 2.

 

[Give War A Chance]

It seems strange that a lot of people (not just on GAF, but in general) are very staunchly against the pre-order culture that the gaming industry is currently mired in... but will happily back a kickstarter, which feels a whole lot like pre-ordering a game based on a concept (not actual alpha/beta/finished material).

It just feels very similar to me, and I'm wondering what the rationale behind it all is.

 

[afternoon delight]

I will never understand the casual animosity toward Kickstarter on this forum by so many.

 

[Spineker]

The kickstarter honeymoon wasn't going to last forever, because of course, assholes have to ruin it for the rest of us.

 

[MormaPope]

It seems strange that a lot of people (not just on GAF, but in general) are very staunchly against the pre-order culture that the gaming industry is currently mired in... but will happily back a kickstarter, which feels a whole lot like pre-ordering a game based on a concept (not actual alpha/beta/finished material).

It just feels very similar to me, and I'm wondering what the rationale behind it all is.

Completely different. Not per-ordering a title affects how many copies a retailer will buy to sell. The game is made, development has started and finished, the product is real and coming. Not to mention pre-order bonuses are universally shitty and should be content in the game.

Kickstarting something is investing in a game that you want to play, that the developers want to make, but there is no backing from a publisher and the developers themselves can't risk going out of business to make something. The developer also doesn't know if there is any real demand for a product, which is something Kickstarter sorta helps with.

 

[AmyS]

Add 90's Arcade Racer to the list of games that may never see release.

Its developer, who was very communicative early, has been very quiet. Only two updates in six months and the game is nearly a year late.

And I was so looking forward to this game. Glad I've never backed a Kickstarter project and never will.

 

[ZoddGutts]

It's obvious that KS funding will be down due to various of reasons. Glad Larian had a huge success with Divinity: Original Sin, they've said that they don't plan on doing another KS since there financially secure now.

 

[Give War A Chance]

Completely different. Not per-ordering a title affects how many copies a retailer will buy to sell. The game is made, development has started and finished, the product is real and coming. Not to mention pre-order bonuses are universally shitty and should be content in the game.

Kickstarting something is investing in a game that you want to play, that the developers want to make, but there is no backing from a publisher and the developers themselves can't risk going out of business to make something. The developer also doesn't know if there is any real demand for a product, which is something Kickstarter sorta helps with.

About two minutes after I posted that, I realized how stupid it was. They're definitely totally different things.

 

[glaurung]

For me, Kickstarter will never recover from the massive disappointment that was REPUBLIQ.

Lies, lies, lies, greed and more lies. And then bad games.

The only other games I ever backed were Pillars of Eternity and the Planescape Torment sequel. My hopes ain't high for either of those.

 

[PixyJunket]

I will never understand the casual animosity toward Kickstarter on this forum by so many.

It could be a couple of reasons. It could be people that love big corporation games and somehow feel slighted by games that aren't funded by giant mega corporations and that don't have pretty graphics and get commercials on WWE wrestling, it could be people that want to be making video games themselves and are jealous/mad at seeing other small teams pitching good projects and getting funding without publisher involvement while they spend their days on Reddit contributing nothing but (stale) opinions, or it could just be that many people on the internet are inherently negative losers and have nothing interesting going on in their lives so they fill it up by hating on things that don't concern them.

 

[Seanspeed]

For me, Kickstarter will never recover from the massive disappointment that was REPUBLIQ.

Lies, lies, lies, greed and more lies. And then bad games.

The only other games I ever backed were Pillars of Eternity and the Planescape Torment sequel. My hopes ain't high for either of those.

Pillars of Eternity is definitely happening. Don't know why you'd be worried about that one.

 

[Baron_Calamity]

I haven't been following kickstarter as a topic. All I know is the quality projects just aren't there anymore. For me, I was drawn to projects that were from industry veterans trying to get the game they are known for made. Wasteland 2, Tex Murphy, Leisure Suit Larry Reloaded, Defense Grid 2, Double Fine Adventure, Torment, Pillars of Eternity, and others. Now its mostly student who want money to make their first game who clearly have no concept of a budget.

I've been happy with kickstarter over all. The projects I backed have a high success rate. I don't expect to see Star Command PC and Two Guys Space Venture looks unlikely too.

Notch no longer has the excuse to not fund Psychonauts 2.

Beyond the face that Double Fine can't seem to stay within a budget. Any budget and delivery a complete game anymore.

 

[MichaelFassbender]

We got Perfect Stride and Shadowrun Returns out of it. Everything else just can't compete.

 

[Gattsu25]

I didn't see anything on the scale of a Project Eternity or a Torment Tides of Numenera in the past year.

The mega gaming projects, which made up so much of the profits in the post, have dried up and are in production right now

We got Perfect Stride and Shadowrun Returns out of it. Everything else just can't compete.

Don't forget FTL

 

[Famassu]

This isn't really all that shocking. There are only so many people/franchises/developers who you can expect to draw in the big bucks and who are even in the position that they might want to try it and most of those have either already tried & failed with a Kickstarter or they've tried & succeeded and are currently in the middle of developing their Kickstarter games. Assuming they don't suddenly sell 30 million copies of Pillars of Eternity, I'd expect Obsidian to do another Kickstarter either later this year or sometime in the first half of 2015.

 

[family_guy]

Seems like a good idea in concept but some games take forever to come out and even when they are playable it feels like they remain in Steam Early Access state forever.

 

[Aaron]

I've backed over twenty projects. So far none have failed, and the only real disappointment was Republiq. I think that's a pretty good record.

 

[afternoon delight]

It could be a couple of reasons. It could be people that love big corporation games and somehow feel slighted by games that aren't funded by giant mega corporations and that don't have pretty graphics and get commercials on WWE wrestling, it could be people that want to be making video games themselves and are jealous/mad at seeing other small teams pitching good projects and getting funding without publisher involvement while they spend their days on Reddit contributing nothing but (stale) opinions, or it could just be that many people on the internet are inherently negative losers and have nothing interesting going on in their lives so they fill it up by hating on things that don't concern them.

I lean towards the first in line with complaints like 'I didn't pay fucking 400$ to play 16-bit games, it disgusts me to see them offered, but oh shit have you played Rogue Legacy, dude, just came out on PSN, so sick.'

But the last reason is what I always end up with. I have a feeling Hyper Light Drifter will be gigantic with consolees when it releases.

 

[Haunted]

Makes sense, the initial rush of projects after DFA has subsided.

I'm thrilled by the amount of money that indie projects have managed to raise in the last couple years - the discovery of Kickstarter is definitely one of the best things that has happened to this industry recently.

 

[MrCunningham]

I didn't see anything on the scale of a Project Eternity or a Torment Tides of Numenera in the past year.

The mega gaming projects, which made up so much of the profits in the post, have dried up and are in production right nowDon't forget FTL

A lot of people are happy with Wasteland 2 as well, and the game sis still selling rather well on Steam. I think the downwards spiral of game projects on Kickstarter after its initial boom was invitable. Kickstarter has been proven to be a viable service for launching game projects off the ground when they are properly well managed and retain a good level of transparency. There have been some good projects to come out of it that have delivered on what they promised. But, there were also a lot of flash in the pan projects that were ill concieved and poorly managed that have burnt pledgers on being so generous with their donations.

I really hope we just see a lot smarter managed projects come out of that initial boom.

 

[Riposte]

It could be a couple of reasons. It could be people that love big corporation games and somehow feel slighted by games that aren't funded by giant mega corporations and that don't have pretty graphics and get commercials on WWE wrestling, it could be people that want to be making video games themselves and are jealous/mad at seeing other small teams pitching good projects and getting funding without publisher involvement while they spend their days on Reddit contributing nothing but (stale) opinions, or it could just be that many people on the internet are inherently negative losers and have nothing interesting going on in their lives so they fill it up by hating on things that don't concern them.

This is practically just throwing shit at people you disagree with lol. Guys, here's my insightful look into the psychology of those against Kickstarter: 1. They are sheep, 2. They jelly, 3. They are losers.



Keep the salt in check please.

 

[CecilRousso]

Decline is a silly word to use of it. It just follows a normal pattern of hype, fatigue and then normalization. Kickstarter for games is still a new thing.

Shouldn't Broken Age be on this list of flops as well? Everyone has seemed to ignore the fact that it's not finished yet...

No, it should not be mentioned in the same sentence as projects that crashed and burned. It has taken longer then expected, but DF has shown progress with the project all the way.

 

[Sinatar]

The fact that something as rad as Flagship is struggling to hit it's incredibly modest goal is all the evidence one needs to see that the Kickstarter fad is done.

 

[Ban Puncher]

I gave Tim Schafer $110 and all I got was this lousy backer t-shirt.

And half a game.

 

[shiftplusone]

im still waiting for my last bunch of kickstarted games to release before I get back into the swing of things

some games had an estimated delivery of last october (2013) but they're still actively working on it I guess

hyperlight drifter is supposed to be out 4 months ago but that one is coming along still

Shantae is supposed to be out this month, who knows?


like others, board game projects i'm at 100% success rate, as are comic projects

 

[th4tguy]

I backed three projects on kickstarter. One board game and two video games. Project eternity and sTar citizen still aren't out in any form I can play and my board game, while making great progress is still not entirely complete. Everything is many months late past projected release dates. I've litteraly spents years supporting projects on kickstarter with nothing to show.

This is why I haven't backed anything in a long while and I probably won't anytime soon.

 

[Baron_Calamity]

The fact that something as rad as Flagship is struggling to hit it's incredibly modest goal is all the evidence one needs to see that the Kickstarter fad is done.

I don't think thats fair. You have an overly ambitious game, being developed by two first time indie developers, for VR on a micro budget. The chance of complete failure seems really high.

/edit:

Also its VR. let me state that again, its targeting to be a VR game. Most people don't want that,

 

[More_Badass]

The fact that something as rad as Flagship is struggling to hit it's incredibly modest goal is all the evidence one needs to see that the Kickstarter fad is done.

That campaign's problem is exposure and a worryingly low funding goal more than anything else. Because at the same time you have CodeSpell at 136k, Moon Hunters 400% funded, Battle Chief Brigade and That Which Sleeps both made their modest goals within a few days of starting their campaigns

Sucks that Flagship isn't funded, since the concept is fucking awesome, but I haven't seen any media coverage on any major sites, after RPS's single article

 

[Canis lupus]

Decline is a silly word to use of it. It just follows a normal pattern of hype, fatigue and then normalization. Kickstarter for games is still a new thing.

That's what I think as well. As the platform becomes mature with stricter rules and more people become familiar with it, the system will weed out the no name bullshitters and we'll have fewer but genuine feasible projects. Most people are still waiting for the projects they backed in 2013 as well, there isn't an endless list of indie devs in this industry who can get their projects funded +1m. The highest funded projects are by people who have decades of experience making games, often these kickstarter games are spiritual successors with a big fan base.

 

[Kresnik258]

I think the novelty had kinda worn off. At least for me. A lot of what I see on there (and I won't get into generalizing too much) is PC/iOS/Android and often platformers; adventure games or RPGs. It has to really catch my eye to make me want to back it if it's ticking those boxes.

Anything a bit more exciting has the chance to catch my eye (and wallet), but they seem few and far between.

The last few years have been decent, though. I've particularly enjoyed all the spiritual successors to franchises I thought long dead.

 

[LoveCake]

I did put money into Shadow of the Eternals by the developer Precursor Games & that didn't make enough so i got my money back, but it was a hassle & i would never bother with anything on Kickstarter again, however i wish i had helped 80's/90's Arcade Racer.

People don't like not getting what they were supposed to or the people who ran the project selling it & making millions after cashing out.

 

[Smash88]

That campaign's problem is exposure and a worryingly low funding goal more than anything else. Because at the same time you have CodeSpell at 136k, Moon Hunters 400% funded, Battle Chief Brigade and That Which Sleeps both made their modest goals within a few days of starting their campaigns

Sucks that Flagship isn't funded, since the concept is fucking awesome, but I haven't seen any media coverage on any major sites, after RPS's single article

 

[More_Badass]

Ah, well I stand corrected

But the other criticisms still stand. I know I'd question the dev's ability to deliver such an ambitious game with that relatively low goal of £95k. Bedlam, a game being built on the already-existing engine used for The Banner Saga, is asking for $130k.

 

[Myggen]

Ah, well I stand corrected

But the other criticisms still stand. I know I'd question the dev's ability to deliver such an ambitious game with that relatively low goal of £95k. Bedlam, a game being built on the already-existing engine used for The Banner Saga, is asking for $130k.

Yeah, I'm extremely sceptical about that Kickstarter when you compare the amount they're asking for and how they're describing the project. I would never donate to something like that.

Also, I agree that this is probably part of a normalization rather than Kickstarter being "in decline". That current gen consoles are now out probably didn't help.

 

[Famassu]

This is practically just throwing shit at people you disagree with lol. Guys, here's my insightful look into the psychology of those against Kickstarter: 1. They are sheep, 2. They jelly, 3. They are losers.



Keep the salt in check please.

But most of the arguments against KS are just plain dumb, ignorant or selfish. There's some valid criticism towards Kickstarter, but that doesn't mean Kickstarter should be shut down. I understand perfectly fine if someone is uncomfortable putting money into a project that they might never see and quality is almost completely uncertain and those people are perfectly ok to not donate (they aren't bad people for not donating to any Kickstarters) but many of the most vocal anti-Kickstarter people 1) don't even understand some of the basic principles of Kickstarter (some people don't seem to understand stuff like: it's not an investment, they don't get the money if they don't meet the funding goal, a failed Kickstarter project is not the same as a scam etc.), 2) say people who pledge money for these projects are iditos/dumb/being scammed or are 3) selfish assholes who'd want a piece of the pie and simply don't understand the thought processes behind people wanting to see some projects without any financial payback.

It's really fine not to want to Kickstart projects, but to dismiss the whole premise of Kickstarter and claim all of their supporters as dumb sheep who are just being scammed out of money is what the majority of the VOCAL anti-KS people are about. They see a thread or two yearly about some failed Kickstarters and come all high & mighty into those threads "SEE, THIS IS WHY KICKSTARTER IS SHIT AND ALL THE PEOPLE WHO PLEDGE MONEY ON ANY KICKSTARTER ARE DUMB AND I WILL NEVER PLEDGE MONEY EVERY PROJECT WILL FAAAAAAAAAAAILLLLLLLLL!!!1!1!1!!!!11!!1!", meanwhile a lot of pledgers are more or less enjoying stuff like FTL, Broken Sword 5, Wasteland 2, Tex Muprhy, Broken Age, Oculus Rift, The Fall, Shadowrun Returns & Dragonfall, Divinity: Original Sin, The Banner Saga etc. etc. and have promising games like Dreamfall Chapters, Pillars of Eternity, Hyper Light Drifter, Grim Dawn, Amplitude HD and quite a lot of others to anticipate in the near future.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Erm, it's actually the other way around.


Great games? Plenty of them already:

Divinity: Original Sin
Wasteland 2
Shovel Knight
FTL
Banner Saga
Star Citizen
Broken Sword 5
Hyper Light Drifter
The new Tex Murphy
Defense Grid 2
Pier Solar HD
Giana Sisters
Road Redemption
The Book of Unwritten Tales 2
Sir, You Are Being Hunted
Planet Explorers
Neverending Nightmares
Spintires
Chivalry: Medieval Warfare

And those are only a few examples, there are many other games that got funded and completed. There's also many games on development right now that seem great and don't seem to be headed for any kind of cancelation.


Meanwhile the only scam/cancellation I can name is the Yogscast Adventures thingy.

That's a good list. Isn't Volgarr the Viking a Kickstarted game as well? Love that one.

The ones I backed are still in development (Mighty No 1, Hyper Light Drifter, Amplitude, Kingdom Come: Deliverance), but I have a good feeling about them (otherwise I wouldn't have backed them in the first place of course).

 

[GalacticSushiman]

Completely different. Not per-ordering a title affects how many copies a retailer will buy to sell. The game is made, development has started and finished, the product is real and coming. Not to mention pre-order bonuses are universally shitty and should be content in the game.

Kickstarting something is investing in a game that you want to play, that the developers want to make, but there is no backing from a publisher and the developers themselves can't risk going out of business to make something. The developer also doesn't know if there is any real demand for a product, which is something Kickstarter sorta helps with.

Do you really think that pre order numbers have no impact on the capacity of a team to fully realize their vision? Do you really believe execs from any vg publisher do not track those numbers with scrutiny as soon as the game is announced and actually provide more resources to the said team if those are good (and vice and versa)?

You are a bit naive my friend

 

[BPoole]

There are several success stories from Kickstarter but when you get these high profile shams like Yogs Adventure and Areal, it makes people iffy about contributing to something like these since there is little that can be done if they get burned.

 

[More_Badass]

I had posted this on another forum

Not only are numerous projects being funded, tons of funded Kickstarters/Indiegogos are finally being released or are playable this year

Shovel Knight, Divinity OS, Wasteland 2, Dex, Octodad, Gods Will Be Watching, Darkwood, The Red Solistice, Windforge, Sunless Sea, The Long Dark, Among The Sleep, MAV, Tabletop Simulator, Habitat, Road Redemption, RimWorld, See No Evil, Battle Worlds, Consortium, Planet Explorers, SpinTires, The Fall, Freedom Planet, Spark Rising, Neverending Nightmares, Cosmochoria, TinyKeep, Unrest, A Wizard's Lizard, Lifeless Planet, Monochroma, Organic Panic, Full Bore, Nekro...

But yes, Kickstarter is a scam, developers never deliver, and games never come out

There are several success stories from Kickstarter but when you get these high profile shams like Yogs Adventure and Areal, it makes people iffy about contributing to something like these since there is little that can be done if they get burned.

I got burned with Confederate Express. That doesn't diminish the work and efforts of devs who know what the hell they're doing and have a promising intriguing game worth supportig

I get why people keep bringing up Yogs Adventure and Areal, but at the same time, seriously? Anyone with any common sense and some caution about what they back would have seen that Yogs Adv. wasn't worth supporting. Let's support a game from a Youtube channel, who have no game dev or project management background, and want to deliver a super ambitious kitchen sink Minecraft killer experience? No thanks,

And Areal? Who was burned by Areal? Putin? How does that blatantly obvious scam/joke of a campaign have any influence on the legitimate campaigns that clearly have some effort and progress put into them? The campaign was suspended and they were the laughingstock of the internet.

 

[MormaPope]

Do you really think that pre order numbers have no impact on the capacity of a team to fully realize their vision? Do you really believe execs from any vg publisher do not track those numbers with scrutiny as soon as the game is announced and actually provide more resources to the said team if those are good (and vice and versa)?

You are a bit naive my friend

Er, what? The conversation was mainly about something being developed and existing versus something that doesn't even really exist yet. You also have to provide actual proof that poor pre-order numbers affect ongoing development. If anything poor pre-orders numbers affect sequel potential/a sequel starting production more than anything.

There are a load of things that affect the capacity to fully realize a specific vision. Pre-order numbers would probably be further down the list than a lot of other things. Provide proof of this if you can.

 

[Haunted]

There are several success stories from Kickstarter but when you get these high profile shams like Yogs Adventure and Areal, it makes people iffy about contributing to something like these since there is little that can be done if they get burned.

There's definitely the element of a handful of scammy-looking projects making people unsure about the plethora of worthwhile projects. But if you think about it, people should be smarter than that, we're all adults and as with every purchase, they should be able to analyse the risks beforehand and assume responsibility for themselves.


The potential upsides of a platform like Kickstarter thriving in this industry are so huge, that a few bad apples shouldn't dissuade people from shying away from the projects worth supporting. It's hurtful generalisation - I can understand the saltiness from some of the supporters in here that see a service that could be so significant badmouthed and put down by a small, loud minority with a very destructive mindset.

 

[someguyinahat]

And those are only a few examples, there are many other games that got funded and completed. There's also many games on development right now that seem great and don't seem to be headed for any kind of cancelation.

Meanwhile the only scam/cancellation I can name is the Yogscast Adventures thingy.

You forgot Truth and Trolls. But your point remains valid. I backed three projects, got one, and the other two give me regular updates and I'm reasonably confident they'll bear fruit. I think the decrease isn't really fatigue so much as last year was a boom and it couldn't have been expected to keep that pace. Still, if next year shows a further decrease I can admit I'm wrong.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

I've largely had a sour taste in my mouth after a spurt of backing projects.

Double Fine's shady behavior, Star Citizen being vaporware, a couple of straight up "take the money and run" situations, and then delays delays delays.

I'd just rather pay the extra $15 bucks when the game comes out.

If it gets good reviews.

 

[Sothpaw]

Pretty disappointing. The three best games I have played this year, Wasteland 2, Dragonfall and Divinity, were all Kickstarter projects.

 

[Vlodril]

The fact that something as rad as Flagship is struggling to hit it's incredibly modest goal is all the evidence one needs to see that the Kickstarter fad is done.

as others have mentioned this is a really really bad example. its niche as hell due to the vr which very few people have so far (its not even out yet officially) add the tiny budget and the uknown studio (i would put the genre as well) and what do you expect?

How the game even is supposed to play? You can get by with some artwork if you are obsidian or fargo but for nonamers good luck with that(as it should be. suspicious projects SHOULD have a hard time / Not getting funding.)

As i said at this point i would like to have a good visual representation of how the game will play and then depending on the budget and the devs i would look to back(at least for companies i know nothing about).

Hell i didn't even back kingdom come deliverance and that looked amazing. Still not convinced they can make that game with that budget though. So i will wait and if it gets made i will happily support them by buying it.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

No, it should not be mentioned in the same sentence as projects that crashed and burned. It has taken longer then expected, but DF has shown progress with the project all the way.

I think Double Fine has definitely hurt confidence in Kickstarter and similar forms of funding. Broken Age still isn't finished and it's currently 2 years past its due date. And there are a lot of Steam users who are really mad about Spacebase DF-9 - it's the first game I've seen on Steam where over half the reviews are negative.

 

[Gruco]

I mean, on one hand, I wouldn't want to live in a world without Shovel Knight and FTL.

On the other, I think Kickstarter games basically jumped the shark yesterday

Hopefully the end result is people being more selective about what projects they back, and think more about the team's pedigree or work in progress. Yogventures had so many red flags I find it amazing that it ever got funded at that level.

As someone who has never funded anything, but is looking forward to a variety of Kickstarter projects, this is probably bad news for my ability to continue to free ride. I should probably start paying attention and contributing to projects more. Shantae, Hat in Time, Hyper Light Drifter, Mighty No. 9, Paradise Lost, and Cosmic Star Heroine all look amazing.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Rule #1: Only kickstart games by reputable developers who have worked in the industry before. I've only kickstarted Grim Dawn, Wasteland 2, Pillars of Eternity and Mighty No. 9, specifically because they are from devs who I can trust.

Rule #2: Do not kickstart "debut" games by unknown developers.

1) If they are known, trusted and vetted developers... Why need Kickstarter in the first place? Surely someone can fund their game if they have that much weight.

2) This is why Kickstarter exists, to help fund the small unknowns who don't have a shot otherwise -> see 1.

 

[More_Badass]

Pretty disappointing. The three best games I have played this year, Wasteland 2, Dragonfall and Divinity, were all Kickstarter projects.

Agreed. Shovel Knight has quickly become one of my favorite platformers of 2014