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Kill la Kill |OT|

Dresden

Member
Nonon wiped out the base according to Satsuki's orders. It wasn't something Nonon did of her own volition. Satsuki essentially bought time and became a big distraction while getting her goal done.

You mean she nearly died because she baited her eternal lover/One True Pairing/BFF in all but name into stabbing her own sword into her throat, and then only saved face thanks to the actions of an underling. The way she then twists it into personal triumph and tells Ryuko that it won't happen again dammit was fun.

Didn't she grab the son of the Takaradas? How is NB a bigger threat now? Most of their forces are wiped out, their silent sponsor is outed and a hostage possibly taken, one of their (if not the main) bases is demolished, and also thinned the herds pretty significantly.

They have Ryuko onboard, and Mohawk/Teacher are alive. Losing chumps means nothing.

Also the way it's framed in the episode is the usual height gap and shining light behind Satsuki signifying the power gap between the two.

Nah, the last we see of her is as a distant figure on a flight back home. The things she says (it was a sneak attack!!!) and the way it's shown is definitely the attitude of a loser. She even tosses Ryuko her sword! The 'power gap' (and all the things that position and light ordinarily signified) rings hollow in the context of what happened just now, as in, she got owned, and how she tries to use them to prop up and assert her superiority no longer has the conviction it used to. The usual symbols are subverted due to what happens on screen, and Matoi is finally the subversive force she was set up to be.

I've learned my lesson. Everytime you try to take the show at more than face value it makes you look foolish by the next episode.

A guy said "You fought to a draw!" That's the show telling you they fought to a draw. Satsuki said she achieved her goals, she achieved her goals.

Yeah but that's boring.
 

Jarmel

Banned
They have Ryuko onboard, and Mohawk/Teacher are alive. Losing chumps means nothing.

It was significant enough that Teacher mentions it at the end. Not to mention the show has repeatedly shown that Teacher and Mohawk are C rank at best. They're relatively harmless on their own.

Nah, the last we see of her is as a distant figure on a flight back home. The things she says (it was a sneak attack!!!) and the way it's shown is definitely the attitude of a loser. She even tosses Ryuko her sword! The 'power gap' (and all the things that position and light ordinarily signified) rings hollow in the context of what happened just now, as in, she got owned, and how she tries to use them to prop up and assert her superiority no longer has the conviction it used to. The usual symbols are subverted due to what happens on screen, and Matoi is finally the subversive force she was set up to be.

The characters in the show seemingly view it as a victory for Satsuki. Teacher is just glad that he's alive. Satsuki views it as a victory for herself and Teacher doesn't exactly have a happy stance on the outcome of the battle. Her goals were generally accomplished. She's probably more shook up at having been fought to a draw, the first time in her life probably, moreso than anything else.
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
I've been following since Ep 1, and the Satsuki/Ryuko stalemate (and by proxy, Satsuki's overpowering everything else save Ragyu and maybe Nui) is getting old.

Ryuko's 'guts/determination' are supposedly helping her reach Satsuki's level somewhat, but without something drastic changing in their next confrontation, the continued fights between the two make it seem like Satsuki has relative Mary Sue-ish OP status (which is probable, but throws a giant wrench in the shonen scaling mechanic, unless she pulls a Vegeta against her nigh all-powerful mother), or some semblance of plot armor that isn't coming across as well as it should.

Her perfect control of Junketsu, to the point of hilarity regarding the apparent difference in power between it and Senketsu, is boring. It's especially odd given how Senketsu was able to overpower each of the Elite 4 with relative ease with a combination of his and Ryuko's tactics and inventiveness, yet couldn't pull out a draw against Satsuki until 15 episodes in.

Yeah, Satsuki lost somewhat in Osaka (insert "plan all along", "helping to train Ryuko" or other possible motivation here) by letting Ryuko get all of Senketsu back, but Nudist Beach, from what we've seen, is nowhere near capable of stopping anything beyond 1-2 star Goku Uniforms, much less Ragyo, especially after having a main base decimated. I'm curious as to whether her being included in the next ep. preview means that we'll get more motivation on her endgame as well.

Incidentally, did I somehow miss why Senketsu is eating the other life fibers and/or what he's doing with them, or are we still in the dark? Senketsu being 'incomplete' could be a possible explanation on why he's weaker than Junketsu, but I dunno if I can see Trigger taking that route.
 

Dresden

Member
You could theorize on how the show can continue to disappoint at every turn.

That's for next week's disappointment, breh. ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)

The characters in the show seemingly view it as a victory for Satsuki. Teacher is just glad that he's alive. Satsuki views it as a victory for herself and Teacher doesn't exactly have a happy stance on the outcome of the battle. Her goals were generally accomplished. She's probably more shook up at having been fought to a draw, the first time in her life probably, moreso than anything else.

She gives up her sword and concedes that Ryuko got one over her, though. The fact that she has to rely on 'operational success' instead of a more personal triumph she had expected supports this!
 

Evilisk

Member
I've been following since Ep 1, and the Satsuki/Ryuko stalemate (and by proxy, Satsuki's overpowering everything else save Ragyu and maybe Nui) is getting old.

Ryuko's 'guts/determination' are supposedly helping her reach Satsuki's level somewhat, but without something drastic changing in their next confrontation, the continued fights between the two make it seem like Satsuki has relative Mary Sue-ish OP status (which is probable, but throws a giant wrench in the shonen scaling mechanic, unless she pulls a Vegeta against her nigh all-powerful mother), or some semblance of plot armor that isn't coming across as well as it should.

Her perfect control of Junketsu, to the point of hilarity regarding the apparent difference in power between it and Senketsu, is boring. It's especially odd given how Senketsu was able to overpower each of the Elite 4 with relative ease with a combination of his and Ryuko's tactics and inventiveness, yet couldn't pull out a draw against Satsuki until 15 episodes in.

Yeah, Satsuki lost somewhat in Osaka (insert "plan all along", "helping to train Ryuko" or other possible motivation here) by letting Ryuko get all of Senketsu back, but Nudist Beach, from what we've seen, is nowhere near capable of stopping anything beyond 1-2 star Goku Uniforms, much less Ragyo, especially after having a main base decimated. I'm curious as to whether her being included in the next ep. preview means that we'll get more motivation on her endgame as well.

Incidentally, did I somehow miss why Senketsu is eating the other life fibers and/or what he's doing with them, or are we still in the dark? Senketsu being 'incomplete' could be a possible explanation on why he's weaker than Junketsu, but I dunno if I can see Trigger taking that route.

Senketsu being able to only fight to a draw 15 episodes in, I blame that on the writers saving it for this long. They seemed to be pretty even back in episode 3 and back then Ryuuko had literally only found she wasn't using full power, and she was about to pass out of blood at that point too.

And I really don't buy that Junketsu is somehow stronger than Senketsu by default.

Was there anything before this episode to even indicate this?

Also we still don't know what the Life Fiber absorption is doing yet.
 

Kinyou

Member
I think this episode was as much as you'll ever get. If you're not on board yet you never will be

edit: I have this feeling I made the exact same post before, lol. Probably around episode 5
 

Odrion

Banned
That's for next week's disappointment, breh. ( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)



She gives up her sword and concedes that Ryuko got one over her, though. The fact that she has to rely on 'operational success' instead of a more personal triumph she had expected supports this!
I think Satsuki is going to report to Ragyo being all "Operation success mom!" and she'll be the one that reminds her that the leaders are alive and they're working with someone whose catching up to her in power.

edit: Actually, I don't know! I'm no longer going to try and predict things. Mako will continue to rule, that's all I know.
 

A-V-B

Member
It was fun.

But I guess that's what the series is -- it's just a good time watching people fight each other. They created the series with that intention, and that's what we're getting.


What kinda annoys me a little, I guess, is that there are these potential developments that present all kinds of mysteries and character questions and relationships and organizations... things you want to find out about so you care about what's going on... and then they aren't explored. You just get another fight. And as we get closer to the end of the series, it's becoming pretty apparent that they didn't have a lot planned in the way of plot and character development. A lot seemed to be hinted at in the beginning, but we're so far into the series now with only 8 episodes to go, what the hell are they going to do? It's probably going to be a mess to toss in a bunch of half-baked ideas into the tail end of the show.

Reiterating a bit... I was excited to find out about the world of Kill La Kill earlier on -- what are Ragyo's plans, etc etc -- but now... I really don't care that I find out? Like, we see
Nudist Beach for the first time, and it turns out they're just a bunch of weird nobodies who get obliterated in the background. I'm sure we'll get a backstory on them, but it's like... no big plans or weapons or anything. However they exist, it's not for their own spot in the world, it's probably just to power up Ryuko and that's it. It all feels very loosely developed as the show heads towards its unwinding.
 

jello44

Chie is the worst waifu
So here we have this giant enemy crab. Attack its weak point for massive dama-OH GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!

That's exactly what came to mind when he whipped that thing out.

Oh a Giant Enemy Crab!

ielFg9YK28x6B.png


pouty face is best face
 

Evilisk

Member
I think Satsuki is going to report to Ragyo being all "Operation success mom!" and she'll be the one that reminds her that the leaders are alive and they're working with someone whose catching up to her in power.

edit: Actually, I don't know! I'm no longer going to try and predict things. Mako will continue to rule, that's all I know.

Yeah, I'm kind of done with predictions now too. I keep expecting big things yet it seems like the weakest and least interesting ideas are the ones that keep coming true (like Nui actually being the one who killed her dad).

It was fun.

But I guess that's what the series is -- it's just a good time watching people fight each other. They created the series with that intention, and that's what we're getting.


What kinda annoys me a little, I guess, is that there are these potential developments that present all kinds of mysteries and character questions and relationships and organizations... things you want to find out about so you care about what's going on... and then they aren't explored. You just get another fight. And as we get closer to the end of the series, it's becoming pretty apparent that they didn't have a lot planned in the way of plot and character development. A lot seemed to be hinted at in the beginning, but we're so far into the series now with only 8 episodes to go, what the hell are they going to do? It's probably going to be a mess to toss in a bunch of half-baked ideas into the tail end of the show.

Reiterating a bit... I was excited to find out about the world of Kill La Kill earlier on -- what are Ragyo's plans, etc etc -- but now... I really don't care that I find out? Like, we see
Nudist Beach for the first time, and it turns out they're just a bunch of weird nobodies who get obliterated in the background. I'm sure we'll get a backstory on them, but it's like... no big plans or weapons or anything. However they exist, it's not for their own spot in the world, it's probably just to power up Ryuko and that's it. It all feels very loosely developed as the show heads towards its unwinding.

I completely agree with this. At times I really do feel like the show was designed with the cool character designs and fights in mind with everything else like the actual plot being just an afterthought.

Between this and LWA (which besides being well animated, has the same writing problems of a weak protagonist, infinitely more interesting rival and side characters, passable but weak world building, etc.) I really do believe Trigger has to get better writers.
 

LordCanti

Member
Nudist Beach
losing their base and a bunch of their ability to even fight
was the low point of the episode for me.
They were the thing that could have turned the show on its head, but...nope.
 
My biggest disappointment isn't even really about the subpar plot, it's just that KLK is so half-assed about its themes, especially compared to Gurren Lagann. I'm not sure if it was itt but I read a post (or blog article) making a good case that while TTGL was all about masculinity, KLK is about femininity (and obviously the positive and the negative stuff that comes with it), which is also what I expected when I saw the first teaser for it.

Just like I enjoyed the way spirals and evolution lead TTGL, I find the various concepts in KLK, namely fashion/clothing, fascism, social constructs etc., to be extremely intriguing. Episode 1 started off as a rather good setup and episode 3 when Ryuko fights against Satsuki and her Junketsu strongly reminded me of Kamina and Simon combining against Viral (also episode 3). One can argue that it's a bit heavy-handed, like starting off the show with a short lesson on Hitler and fascism and the Kamui requiring blood to transform but personally this didn't bother me. The problem however is that all of this starts and ends as an idea. I guess it's because KLK is exploring themes that are infinitely more complex than those in TTGL or rather more difficult to convey in a battle anime but neither Ryuko's growth as a character nor the plot (or at least what's in the foreground) aligns with any of the themes anymore. Here is where TTGL excelled thanks to its brilliant simplicity.

I'm aware that I'm basing my judgement on TTGL a lot but to me the two shows are difficult to separate but even taken by itself it is just poorly executed.

Oh well, still watching for Mako.
 

Guess Who

Banned
This is a show whose core concept was born from silly Japanese puns about clothing and fascism and is made on a much smaller budget than TTGL. I'd love a new TTGL style series from Trigger but anyone looking to KLK for deeper themes or great storytelling were destined for disappointment from the start.
 

Odrion

Banned
This is a show whose core concept was born from silly Japanese puns about clothing and fascism and is made on a much smaller budget than TTGL. I'd love a new TTGL style series from Trigger but anyone looking to KLK for deeper themes or great storytelling were destined for disappointment from the start.
Deeper themes is one thing, expecting the story to be somewhat interesting and the characters to be more than just vehicles for poorly animated fighting is another.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
+Mako and Gamagoori
+Sanageyama new outfit that incredibly resembles Enki and then Boota cameo
+Nonon new outfit
+Stuff seems to happens in this episode

-Satsuki still doesn't talk with Junketsu to unlock full power
-Satsuki needs Nonon to fly
-Stuff doesn't really happens in this episode
-Budget is still a (huge) problem
-We are well over half the series and we have yet to see a flat out great episode

This series confirms itself to be a giant cloud of gas that lacks that spark to become a big and bright flame.
 

Evilisk

Member
Running into smut and bad art is just a part of the job for us fanart warriors.

I've grown accustomed to it

So have I, but I'm still pretty disappointed in the lack of decent Nonon art especially since the fan art for Kill la Kill in general has been pretty good.

You'd think a character with Kamina shades on one of their outfits would at least have a better ratio of good to bad fan art.

This is a show whose core concept was born from silly Japanese puns about clothing and fascism and is made on a much smaller budget than TTGL. I'd love a new TTGL style series from Trigger but anyone looking to KLK for deeper themes or great storytelling were destined for disappointment from the start.

I really doubt that even with a budget that the writing would still be any better.

I honestly believe Trigger just flat out needs some better writers.
 

Odrion

Banned
The show would be way better if they had better writers, and with the limited budget they would've limit the action accordingly instead of trying to stretch a shoestring a mile long.
 
This is a show whose core concept was born from silly Japanese puns about clothing and fascism and is made on a much smaller budget than TTGL. I'd love a new TTGL style series from Trigger but anyone looking to KLK for deeper themes or great storytelling were destined for disappointment from the start.

You don't need a huge budget to have a decent story and push themes more competently than they have in KLK so far. And I think to a certain degree they're definitely trying to do at least something. There are hints of attempts at something deeper but alas...

I don't even mind the poor animation work, despite rewatching (for the 4th time) TTGL with my brother. In some scenes it even adds to the comedic effect.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
Is there a chance of a season 2? I agree with those saying the plot and worldbuilding seem half-baked, despite the show being over halfway done. I can't really see the last 8 changing that a whole lot - they're running out of time. I don't really feel the themes it's put out are that deep either, or at least not presented that deeply.

In the end it's still good and enjoyable, but it won't end up being great like TTGL.
 

Guess Who

Banned
You don't need a huge budget to have a decent story and push themes more competently than they have in KLK so far. And I think to a certain degree they're definitely trying to do at least something. There are hints of attempts at something deeper but alas...

The thing is, I don't think they're trying to do anything deeper. Like I said, it's a show whose premise is derived from the creators dicking around and thinking up puns. PSG was the same way, no grand point, no deep storytelling or triumphant character arcs, just a bunch of animators and writers having fun making stupid jokes and cool fight scenes.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
The thing is, I don't think they're trying to do anything deeper. Like I said, it's a show whose premise is derived from the creators dicking around and thinking up puns. PSG was the same way, no grand point, no deep storytelling or triumphant character arcs, just a bunch of animators and writers having fun making stupid jokes and cool fight scenes.

Man i really need that S2 of P&SwG...
 

A-V-B

Member
Is there a chance of a season 2? I agree with those saying the plot and worldbuilding seem half-baked, despite the show being over halfway done. I can't really see the last 8 changing that a whole lot - they're running out of time. I don't really feel the themes it's put out are that deep either, or at least not presented that deeply.

In the end it's still good and enjoyable, but it won't end up being great like TTGL.

I mean, I guess if it makes umpteen bazillion dollars there could be a season 2, but they seem very dead set on it being a single season show.
 

Evilisk

Member
Ryuko couldn't pierce Junketsu using weapons made from Senketsu yet Satsuki could threaten Ryuko using only Junketsu.

Yeah but could Junketsu actually cut through Senketsu? I thought only a Scissor Blade could cut through life fibers. Not to mention, Ryuuko has had her share of dumb moments (like asking Tsumugu if he was from a club despite not wearing anything resembling a uniform or having stars)
 
The thing is, I don't think they're trying to do anything deeper. Like I said, it's a show whose premise is derived from the creators dicking around and thinking up puns. PSG was the same way, no grand point, no deep storytelling or triumphant character arcs, just a bunch of animators and writers having fun making stupid jokes and cool fight scenes.

I'm not sure they're really succeeding with the latter tbh.

It's not as much about depth as it's about coherence and consistency, some kind of red thread (kekeke). Currently there really is no point to any of the non-combat or non-comedy scenes in KLK. The conflict between Ryuko and Satsuki was weak to begin with, now that she's found out who killed her dad, there's even less reason, made even more apparent by Ryuko suddenly being all about protecting her friends... which friends exactly?

It's just... when you put in stuff like the ones mentioned, there has to be at least some point to it. It's quite the mess tbh. While that's not a dealbreaker to me, it is disappointing.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Senketsu being able to only fight to a draw 15 episodes in, I blame that on the writers saving it for this long. They seemed to be pretty even back in episode 3 and back then Ryuuko had literally only found she wasn't using full power, and she was about to pass out of blood at that point too.

And I really don't buy that Junketsu is somehow stronger than Senketsu by default.

Was there anything before this episode to even indicate this?

Also we still don't know what the Life Fiber absorption is doing yet.

Junketsu is a lot more feral than Senketsu. So much in fact that whenever it's not in use they have to restrain it. It also consumes a lot more blood than Senketsu does, presumably up to three times as much since Satsuki has to use three needles to activate it.

I'm going to take a guess and assume that from the outset, Junketsu has the edge in strength while Senketsu has the advantage in stamina. But again, little is known about the life fibers, whether Junketsu has the ability to use them as well and whether it's even possible to communicate with Junketsu is up in the air. Ryuko never got the full potential out of her Kamui at first because she was too embarrassed to bond with it despite knowing she had to wear it, but Satsuki outright refused to bond and exercised her sheer dominance over it to use it.

Satsuki might have been able to get more out of Junketsu if they actually bonded but she seems to consider that notion absurd, as for her it's only a tool to accomplish her petty needs. I'm starting to imagine that this is going to be her downfall, since if Nui's and Ragyo's conversation is anything to go by, she will eventually lose control over the uniform - and Ragyo wants to see that happen.
 

Dresden

Member
The thing is, I don't think they're trying to do anything deeper. Like I said, it's a show whose premise is derived from the creators dicking around and thinking up puns. PSG was the same way, no grand point, no deep storytelling or triumphant character arcs, just a bunch of animators and writers having fun making stupid jokes and cool fight scenes.

That describes PSG perfectly, but it certainly doesn't fit KLK. They've failed at doing anything meaningful with the writing, but it doesn't mean the intent to do so wasn't there.
 
15

Pretty good episode. Nudist Beach troops got a hearty laugh out of me. Such ridiculous designs lol.

The whole tower action scene was hard to follow. Either way this is the best episode in a while, especially how awful and annoying the last one was.

Finally we will get to learn more about Ryukos dad and hopefully Senketsu.

Nice little bit of "thing" developing between Gamagoori and Mako. I bet he will do a heel turn trying to save Mako sometime near the end
 
15

Pretty good episode. Nudist Beach troops got a hearty laugh out of me. Such ridiculous designs lol.

The whole tower action scene was hard to follow. Either way this is the best episode in a while, especially how awful and annoying the last one was.

Finally we will get to learn more about Ryukos dad and hopefully Senketsu.

Nice little bit of "thing" developing between Gamagoori and Mako. I bet he will do a heel turn trying to save Mako sometime near the end

im calling it
Gamigori is gonna pull a Neji(manga)
and gives birth to dominatrix goku uniform Mako(because shes secretly a sadist)
 

Guess Who

Banned
That describes PSG perfectly, but it certainly doesn't fit KLK. They've failed at doing anything meaningful with the writing, but it doesn't mean the intent to do so wasn't there.

KLK isn't as blatantly ridiculous as PSG was, obviously, but I really don't see where the intent to make a serious message is in KLK. The plot just feels like a vehicle for cool fights, Ryuko's character is just an homage to 80s sukeban leads, Mako's exists almost entirely for gags, the rebel faction against the regime is called Nudist Beach, the show doesn't take itself seriously in pretty much any way and I really don't think the audience is expected to, either.
 

Dresden

Member
KLK isn't as blatantly ridiculous as PSG was, obviously, but I really don't see where the intent to make a serious message is in KLK. The plot just feels like a vehicle for cool fights, Ryuko's character is just an homage to 80s sukeban leads, Mako's exists almost entirely for gags, the rebel faction against the regime is called Nudist Beach, the show doesn't take itself seriously in pretty much any way and I really don't think the audience is expected to, either.

You're ignoring the basic premise and structure of the two shows. PSG was driven by its episodic format. KLK is its opposite. I liked PSG, and I wouldn't mind if KLK was as random and fun as that show, but the latter's obviously trying to deliver a long story arc and it wants you to be invested in the characters. I'm not asking for deep social commentary or whatever, I just wish the writing could hold up and give meaning to the main struggle in the series. Basically, give the viewers something to care about.

References, homages, and gags doesn't remove the need for competent storytelling, and the silliness of peripheral stuff doesn't mean that this competence is no longer needed or was never intended, either.
 
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