.la1n
Member
Her back HK (I think, the overhead) is great for crouch blocking opponents. Always toss out a grenade when you get a hard knock down as well. Guaranteed mix up.
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Killer Instinct Season 2 |OT| It's international RIPTOOOOORRRRRR day.
- Thread starter Silky
- Start date
Her back HK (I think, the overhead) is great for crouch blocking opponents. Always toss out a grenade when you get a hard knock down as well. Guaranteed mix up.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Thanks, I'll have to spend some time in the lab with her.
As far as hard knockdowns go, what's the best/most reliable way to achieve that? Since she doesn't have a hard knockdown ender I'm guessing it might be the sweep?
Edit: Seems like the Ichi Ni San ender is good for setting up the grenade. As well as throws too of course.
I bought the XP booster it helps but stacked with the double XP weekend you only get 300% XP not 400% like it really should be. Kind of lame IMO.
.la1n
Member
I was wondering if anyone would bite and tell us how bad it scales. Thanks for that, I might do just a 24 hour boost and finish up a few characters. I had a feeling they wouldn't let them truly stack, wouldn't want people leveling too fast and enjoying unlocks.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Alright I was messing around with Orchid in the lab and came across something weird. Seems like her grenade will stop her Ichi Ni San from being unblockable?
https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/8bd0ab1a-781c-48d3-86d2-d27d53ae09bb?gamerTag=BananasWithGuns&scid=03a80100-9ff3-46ea-be76-e00e7fe465df
Is this an intentional thing as a way to stop people from abusing it or is it possibly a bug? Maybe this is a known thing but I wasn't aware of it until just now.
https://account.xbox.com/en-us/gameclip/8bd0ab1a-781c-48d3-86d2-d27d53ae09bb?gamerTag=BananasWithGuns&scid=03a80100-9ff3-46ea-be76-e00e7fe465df
Is this an intentional thing as a way to stop people from abusing it or is it possibly a bug? Maybe this is a known thing but I wasn't aware of it until just now.
That's lame. If you're paying for double the rate you should get it.
I might have actually considered buying one if they didn't intentionally skew it lower. It's the only scenario where I'd consider boosters. I guess they don't want my money.
.la1n
Member
It's very possible it's meant to prevent guaranteed setups. Keits might be hanging around and can chime in on it. Since KI has been part of games with gold I have noticed more players in ranked matches, wonder what the total amount of new players will look like by end of January.
You're a trooper for checking to see what it does and that's disappointing to hear since it's supposed to be double xp. It's not your fault it happens to be double xp weekend, too. So now we know it just adds another 100% no matter what.
Is it that bad? I told my brother to use it as a way to help ease him into the game since S1 is free. He gets nervous and has trouble doing the inputs right in a match. Since he can do it with the assist or manually I don't see a problem.
I mean, he's going to lose if he gets outplayed less inputs or not.
You're kinda making the argument against them here tbh... performing under pressure should be an aspect of fighters really. The Daigo parry wouldn't be very special if it succeeded simply because you knew it was a good time to use it... being able to actually perform it when it counts adds to the risk vs reward of the genre, and leads to variety as players opt for different attack sequences based on their valuation of whether or not to go for the most effective attack, or one that's safer for them to execute.
An optional easy input system makes little sense to me in any fighter, as if there isn't any substantial deterrent for sticking with it, then why isn't it simply the only input system?
Yup. This essentially cannibalizes the current input system for the vast majority of players.
Also agree with something like being able to perform an Ultra to finish off a match should have some element of risk/reward to it. Just pressing a button is too lenient and throws any element of risk/reward out the window. KI is not that hard and is not asking too much, really.
You cannot hit someone with an unblockable attack if they are already in blockstun. They'll simply be allowed to block it.
So even in the worst case, where you time an unblockable to hit someone 1 to 4 frames after the blockstun from a grenade ends (which totally works), it is possible for them to backdash or reversal out depending on positioning.
Check out Bastfree's extremely high tech Orchid stuff to learn more.
Also, start watching weekly tournaments with us! You'll learn a lot and have a great time. Today at 5pm PST is the Top 32 Killers Showdown. I'll tweet out the stream link later but its usually on twitch.tv/killerinstinct
Edit: Re Combo Assist.
Combo Assist doesn't remove the 'perform under pressure' aspect of fighting games at all. All it allows you to do is get through the most trivial type of combo in the game (a type of combo that is never dropped in mid to high level play) with a hair less practice.
Pressure to perform a massive list of much more interesting skills remains totally unchanged;
-reversals
-anti airs
-spacing properly
-keeping yourself out of the corner
-cornering your opponent
-reacting or anticipating in footsies or neutral
-learning and exploiting matchup strengths
-learning and minimizing matchup weaknesses
-blocking properly
-shadow countering
-opening your opponent up to even start a combo
-managing your meter
-managing and using your instinct
-performing manuals, links, juggles, setups, oki, etc
-combo breaking
-counter breaking
-manipulation of your opponent's actions
etc etc etc. The list goes on and on.
If you were struggling to get through the "golden path" combos (Opener, Auto Double, Linker, Auto Double, Linker, etc, Ender) in the first place, this mode was designed to get you to the thinking part of the game quicker, so you can engage in all of the things (and more) that I listed above.
And yes, the dev team will be working to solve bugs and weird Combo Assist Only Option Selects that appear.
But then why even bother with putting it in in the first place?
The execution barrier for the most basic and 'trivial' combos in Killer Instinct 2013 is so low and forgiving that removing it all together seems redundant and devaluing. It only serves to discourage beginners from learning KI's core combo structure....
I should add actually, that I've likely done less research on this than you have. I haven't even actually tried the mode for myself. My response was based entirely on the logic established by your post (your friend simply not failing to accomplish something under pressure, that he usually may fail). Obviously (as Keits stated) there are other aspects of the game which are still demanding of the player, but if this new system basically just amounts to "one less thing to worry about", then it kinda makes sense for everyone to use it anyway... hell, it may even cause your joystick to last longer, lol.
Literally nothing about this discourages beginners from learning KI's core combo structure. That statement makes zero sense.
I mean, I guess you didn't read the massive article we posted explaining all of this?
TLDR: People dont WANT to learn a game if they are not having fun. Most players can do a QCF fireball motion, but struggle doing a normal cancelled into a special. KI combos ask you to cancel a normal into a special 4+ times in quick succession.
Its trivial for me. Its not trivial for everyone. Those people are not having fun with KI, and according to our testing, this mode gets them having fun quickly, and hopefully as a result, they WANT to learn more about the game.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Hey Keits, thanks for the explanation. I figured it was something along those lines but happy to have that clarification. Also thank you for the bastfree recommendation. Watched a little bit of his stuff and it's definitely helpful.
Also as far as combo assist goes, just from my personal experience I don't really mind it. So far I've found uses for it in doing an ultra and also doing dragon punch motion enders. I could do both pretty reliably before so it doesn't change too much. I guess if i had to find something that it made considerably easier for me it would be doing the dragon punch motion for an ultra (Jago for example). I can do it for an ender but for whatever reason when I go to do an ultra I can never get it to come out. So I guess that's the biggest thing combo assist has done for me.
On the flip I think it has some pretty big disadvantages, at least in terms of it auto performing special moves after a normal. You can put yourself in some really bad situations if you're not extremely deliberate with your button presses sometimes. It also seems like it can straight up lock you out of moves, for example Cinder's punch combos.
So while it definitely makes the game easier for people that don't have their motions down I still think there's a level of trade off that can make it unappealing at a higher level. Even still, I don't think the difference is so drastic that it needs to be banned in certain modes or what have you and with KI's PC release coming up (and the current GWG offer) I think having a lot more appeal will be good for the game in the long run. Just my opinion anyway.
It makes perfect sense..
Sue me if I find it hard to believe that someone who has never touched KI, mashes on buttons, sees 'cool stuff' happen would automatically want to learn to do it the hard way? Even IF they care to learn the system there's little to stop them from consistently using combo assist, it cheapens the experience. You don't ALWAYS have to appeal to the lowest common denominator...
I would argue KI has the single best tutorial mode ever conceived in a fighting game. You can literally take someone whose never touched a fighter, have them run through half that mode and be competent in low to mid level play. I would also argue KI has the easiest entry level execution barrier of any fighting game short of Smash Bros or maybe Marvel 3.
And yes I read that entire combo assist post it doesn't refute any of my statement, your tone is condescending, you sound annoyed that I'm even questioning the feature on a gaming forum...that's why we are here, to give our thoughts and concerns on a game we love.
People don't like special motions. People don't want to learn special motions. That's what combo assist is for : people who don't want to learn special motions.
I just watched a friend's younger sibling go through the tutorial and get shaken up by the idea that there's different strengths in punches/kicks, and by the time he went I learn specials in dojo, he gave up because he can't do DP motion.
At the most he can do a quartet circle and while combo assist doesn't alleviate the issue for casuals to learn special motions, he can still try with his normals.
I'm not really sure how to explain the disconnect I have with how this mode is being pitched, but I feel like this mode is really for those who literally wouldn't play the game otherwise and just want to try to play with friends and just makes it easier for those already playing. I mean, look at that huge list above of all the other things to learn/study/practice. That's a lot of the stuff that people never want to learn/study/master in fighters. That list is why fighters are a hard sell.
If someone really needs this to play and have fun, I just can't see them getting past all that stuff that will always be an issue. I don't subscribe to the idea that this assist is going to get those who truly need it on to do more than the bare minimum to make stuff happen in game. So it seems a little odd to me to not just make one universal system that still has the intended benefit of the assist somehow. (along with reasonable concessions for using it)
I guess to me this mode to me feels more like a way to bypass learning the intricacies and still make stuff happen than a gateway to learning it. I still have yet to gauge reactions when I introduce the game to friends who don't play fighters.
I also read the whole forum thread, but disagree with the devs on some aspects of this and their explanations. There are obviously some posts that are intentionally combative, but not everyone who disagrees with the devs is being so. Many simply disagree, and are trying to honestly convey their take. I do feel like a number of the dev responses there and here to those who don't like the current implementation come off as condescending in tone, which I think can be off-putting when discussing how to grow the community. I know managing a game board can be frustrating with a lot of unwarranted negativity, but I hope they can just be more aware of this when responding to those with differing opinions.
If someone really needs this to play and have fun, I just can't see them getting past all that stuff that will always be an issue. I don't subscribe to the idea that this assist is going to get those who truly need it on to do more than the bare minimum to make stuff happen in game. So it seems a little odd to me to not just make one universal system that still has the intended benefit of the assist somehow. (along with reasonable concessions for using it)
I guess to me this mode to me feels more like a way to bypass learning the intricacies and still make stuff happen than a gateway to learning it. I still have yet to gauge reactions when I introduce the game to friends who don't play fighters.
I also read the whole forum thread, but disagree with the devs on some aspects of this and their explanations. There are obviously some posts that are intentionally combative, but not everyone who disagrees with the devs is being so. Many simply disagree, and are trying to honestly convey their take. I do feel like a number of the dev responses there and here to those who don't like the current implementation come off as condescending in tone, which I think can be off-putting when discussing how to grow the community. I know managing a game board can be frustrating with a lot of unwarranted negativity, but I hope they can just be more aware of this when responding to those with differing opinions.
I introduced the game to my friend who doesn't play fighters yesterday and told him to do the first 15 or so dojo training and disable combo assist. After an hour he understood the basics and could compete with some bronzes and silvers. He learned what combo assist was and said "This shit shouldn't be in ranked."
That's the only reaction I've seen so far from any of my friends.
That's the only reaction I've seen so far from any of my friends.
Poker Face
Member
So apparently Tusk and Kim Wu at launch? Awesome.
.la1n
Member
Yeah, thought that was pretty cool of them to bring those two at launch.
edit: listening to Adam's interview now, it doesn't sound like any confirmation of Tusk & Kim Wu at launch, just that they will be in this season.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I thought the way Adam described the "reworks" was pretty interesting. Saying that ones being reworked currently don't have to work as hard for what they get compared to other characters. I'm not sure who fits that bill though.
.la1n
Member
I feel like TJ Combo in his current state is pretty boring to play, I could see him getting reworked.
Sorry for any condescending tone you may have read into my statements. That said, I'm not just a dev, I'm a 15+ year competitive fighting game player, and its hard for me to imagine that my opponent being able to complete the game's easiest combos would have any bearing at all on my ability to defeat them.
So when you suggest otherwise, I'm not sure how to explain to you that this doesn't add up.
If the complaint is that "why would someone turn combo assist OFF?"... well other than the reasons already posted here and on Ultra-Combo, does it really matter if someone chooses to keep it ON forever? If it leads to them enjoying and playing the game, I'm all for it. More players, more competition, and Combo Assist users still have to learn to really really play the fighting game to win. If even 1% of the new people trying KI due to Games With Gold or S3 Launch/PC stay because of this, it was 1000% worth doing.
The dev team has zero interest in dividing the community, so while we may tweak CA mode a bit to deal with CA-Only OS stuff, it will always be allowed in all modes for those that wish to use it.
In our testing (and we've done a LOT), its been pretty clear that CA mode leads to actually learning the combo system. To be clear, learning the COMBO SYSTEM is a totally separate statement from learning the STANDARD CONTROLS and doing golden path combos that way.
Yes, the Dojo is fantastic, but the vast majority of people who try it do not stick with it for very many lessons, and extremely often quit the game and never load it up again immediately thereafter. Its informative, but it isn't fun. Its repetition and reading and terminology and technically difficult for players unfamiliar with rapidly canceling normals into specials.
With CA mode, those players get into matches and just have fun seeing big combos happen. Then they figure out that they need to use an Ender before the KV bar fills up. They get combo broken like crazy for being too predictable, so they start to learn to change it up, and with that, start to grasp timing differences between different strengths. And it isnt long after that they start seeing which parts of the combo are doubles and linkers. Etc etc etc.
It is perfectly reasonable to think that a CA user will see opponents who use their character doing Enders they cannot use and then try manually inputting those Enders as desired. Then as they learn (which they are doing because they are having fun) they see Opener->Linker, which is not possible using CA inputs, so they learn to input that manually.... and before you know it, they know how to input everything manually if they want. But they aren't just thrown into a tank of sharks here. They can learn it one step at a time while being engaged with the 'fun part' of fighting games; outsmarting opponents. (Grinding execution is fun for some of us, but realize we are the .001%. The vast majority of gamers do not want to grind execution.)
We really do appreciate your feedback, but like I said on Ultra-Combo... watching a match between two mid or higher level players with or without CA on, you'd never know the difference because it simply doesn't change anything about the rules of the game. We could have had people testing CA mode for months before it came out and you'd never have known. You wouldn't see a guy finish a golden path combo and say 'He must be assisted in some way!" because that statement would be ridiculous.
If you have suggestions about how you'd like to see CA mode tweaked, we are listening. If your suggestion is 'get rid of it', and you strongly dislike our explanations about why we aren't going to do that, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
So when you suggest otherwise, I'm not sure how to explain to you that this doesn't add up.
If the complaint is that "why would someone turn combo assist OFF?"... well other than the reasons already posted here and on Ultra-Combo, does it really matter if someone chooses to keep it ON forever? If it leads to them enjoying and playing the game, I'm all for it. More players, more competition, and Combo Assist users still have to learn to really really play the fighting game to win. If even 1% of the new people trying KI due to Games With Gold or S3 Launch/PC stay because of this, it was 1000% worth doing.
The dev team has zero interest in dividing the community, so while we may tweak CA mode a bit to deal with CA-Only OS stuff, it will always be allowed in all modes for those that wish to use it.
In our testing (and we've done a LOT), its been pretty clear that CA mode leads to actually learning the combo system. To be clear, learning the COMBO SYSTEM is a totally separate statement from learning the STANDARD CONTROLS and doing golden path combos that way.
Yes, the Dojo is fantastic, but the vast majority of people who try it do not stick with it for very many lessons, and extremely often quit the game and never load it up again immediately thereafter. Its informative, but it isn't fun. Its repetition and reading and terminology and technically difficult for players unfamiliar with rapidly canceling normals into specials.
With CA mode, those players get into matches and just have fun seeing big combos happen. Then they figure out that they need to use an Ender before the KV bar fills up. They get combo broken like crazy for being too predictable, so they start to learn to change it up, and with that, start to grasp timing differences between different strengths. And it isnt long after that they start seeing which parts of the combo are doubles and linkers. Etc etc etc.
It is perfectly reasonable to think that a CA user will see opponents who use their character doing Enders they cannot use and then try manually inputting those Enders as desired. Then as they learn (which they are doing because they are having fun) they see Opener->Linker, which is not possible using CA inputs, so they learn to input that manually.... and before you know it, they know how to input everything manually if they want. But they aren't just thrown into a tank of sharks here. They can learn it one step at a time while being engaged with the 'fun part' of fighting games; outsmarting opponents. (Grinding execution is fun for some of us, but realize we are the .001%. The vast majority of gamers do not want to grind execution.)
We really do appreciate your feedback, but like I said on Ultra-Combo... watching a match between two mid or higher level players with or without CA on, you'd never know the difference because it simply doesn't change anything about the rules of the game. We could have had people testing CA mode for months before it came out and you'd never have known. You wouldn't see a guy finish a golden path combo and say 'He must be assisted in some way!" because that statement would be ridiculous.
If you have suggestions about how you'd like to see CA mode tweaked, we are listening. If your suggestion is 'get rid of it', and you strongly dislike our explanations about why we aren't going to do that, I'm sorry to disappoint you.
Hoping to catch one of these once they release
I wanted S.Jago badly but - Shipping & Handling ww was $ 167.19
fuck that
Where's this interview?
These look amazing! I'm definitely gonna get the Fulgore one once I save up the cash.
Also, just as a suggestion I hope eventually we see more Pops of Microsoft characters. I have this really nice Master Chief and I would love to have a Fulgore to put beside him.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Here you go.
http://www.twitch.tv/killerinstinct/v/33268836?t=4h07m09s
Also Adam put a poll up on Twitter asking what shadow character everyone would want to see out of Orchid, Maya and Kim Wu.
https://twitter.com/Ishmae1/status/683688840943423488
Shadow Orchid with her Laserken please!
Troubled Bat
Member
Time for Roxy Rave to get her chance in Shadow Orchid. The staff lives on.
The staff lives on.BananasWithGuns
Member
It's kind of weird that I'm agonizing over who to vote for lol. Leaning toward Maya though as I think that would just be really cool to see. She's already a pretty nuts character as it is.
Apology accepted and I appreciate the responses, ok...
At no point did I state (or do I think now) that CA would make a difference in HIGH level play or do I think it would ever cause directly cause someone to beat me who otherwise wouldn't have. We totally agree here.
Well this where fundamentally I just disagree with you (and the whole KI team apparently) about what is a healthy and rewarding way to grow a fighting game. I feel there needs to be SOME level of directional execution to all levels of play begginer to expert in a competitive setting. Since you've clearly stated CA WILL stay in ranked, to me it cheapens the experience in low to mid level play...which by your own statement is the VAST majority of players and thusly the mass majority of the experience of KI.
As I said earlier I feel the input barrier for KI is VERY forgiving but I'm willing to concede that my long experience and overall skill with fighting games affects this opinion. To be clear CA will not affect my enjoyment of KI in any way, I just disagree with it fundamentally but I can of course turn it off.
Well my admittedly very small sample size, (2 people new to fighters) was not what your stating here, they both finished about 80% of Dojo mode and learned the game systems no problem and proceeded to jump right in and have fun...but I can't argue with your results I'm just very surprised by them.
To me this seems like a very optimistic view of how someone would progress from CA to manual inputs and mid to high level play but if that's the results your really getting..well again I can't really argue.
I will say only .001% of people actually training in lab for execution seems a bit hyperbolic considering how big and robust the high level player community has become.
Fair enough, thanks for engaging with me and I certainly appreciate all the hard work you guys put in.
You are 100% correct. KI is one of the, if not THE most forgiving 'traditional' style fighting game that exists as far as inputs are concerned. That doesn't change the fact that learning to cancel a normal into a special is really hard for most people, and doing it a ton of times in one combo seems daunting.
The players you mention finishing 80% of the dojo probably have at least some prior traditional fighting game experience to build from. I finished 100% of the dojo my first try pretty effortlessly, but like you said, we have a lot of experience.
I said .001% of gamers, not of competitive fighting game players. If you compete in locals, online tournaments, or have even been to EVO, you are in the .001% already.
Gamers, in general, are not excited by execution. Nearly all of the most popular competitive games today are very easy to sit down and have fun with right away, but can be extremely difficult to master. Fighting games have to make concessions here. You see it in SFV's overall design as well. Anyone making games in this genre wants to expand the audience, and doing the same things we've done for the last 15 years isn't going to cut it.
And yeah, that kind of thing ruffles a few feathers, including my own. But I try to stay logical and think about progress.
I like being able to talk with people openly and honestly about this stuff. Like I said, I'm pretty deep into fighting games as a core part of my life. 15 years of competition, 10 years of being a TO, 8 years of serious FGC travel, 3 years of editing SRK's frontpage, a fan-game that got published, an evo top 8 medal, and a gig as lead combat guy on a major franchise... its pretty much everything I am. I can always appreciate your passion because I share it.
Still trying to wrap my head around this. I do think the mode is a good idea, and I look forward to being able to play with friends that wouldn't play otherwise because of it. Also, as long as the CAM-specific OSs are addressed that covers the biggest arguments against the current implementation.
I do, however, still think IF there's going to be a separate assist mode, and not one unified system, there needs to be a little bit more trade-off for using it. I just don't think you should be able to turn on an assist that changes the control mechanics and still be able to do everything at the same time. I think that's where I may fundamentally disagree with how it's implemented now. Maybe just allow one ender type or a more stock combo type without the option to do them manually at all if CAM is tuned on or being more canned in some way for the trade-off. I dunno. For those that really need it on, I don't think those players will know what's missing. They'll still be able to start/end a combo. If they want to do more, they will want to learn the ender manually. Maybe only allow one type of ender if just the ender assist part is turned on?
I feel like a match-ending move like an Ultra should have a tad more execution requirement than just a button press, however. Especially if it subjects the user to a long, drawn-out animation sequence they can't skip after the match is technically over. I feel like it's fair for that person to have to do a little more to earn that.
I dunno, maybe I'm saying, why isn't this mode just the default now? Why not just make the system more unified, yet simpler somehow without an assist mode-toggle? The in-combo motions are mostly superfluous now and seemingly trivial, so why not just axe them altogether? Maybe that might reduce the stigma of using it if everyone has the same control system. Even though I like having the trivial motions in there to feel like I'm more actively pulling off a combo, there's no way I'm going to do them if I don't have to. There's already enough to consider, so why do more work then necessary?
I know going into a fighters a lot of options can be intimidating. I guess perhaps making just one system would interfere with combo traits, so maybe that's why. Still, why not just eliminate the motions, make that the default but require holding back for traits the default like you would have to do with assist on? Those using assist would have to do that anyway, and for more advanced players, learning to hold back should be trivial if the motions would have been trivial for them.
It seems like this while being intended to help, it still creates some unnecessary confusion/division/stigma when learning. I'd almost rather they just merge everything into one control system if they're going to do this. If I recall the one-button combo in Persona is always there, so it's not as controversial. Perhaps having this assist be an on/off mode is what's problematic to me rather than the core system controls being revised and having everyone still under one more accessible system.
I do, however, still think IF there's going to be a separate assist mode, and not one unified system, there needs to be a little bit more trade-off for using it. I just don't think you should be able to turn on an assist that changes the control mechanics and still be able to do everything at the same time. I think that's where I may fundamentally disagree with how it's implemented now. Maybe just allow one ender type or a more stock combo type without the option to do them manually at all if CAM is tuned on or being more canned in some way for the trade-off. I dunno. For those that really need it on, I don't think those players will know what's missing. They'll still be able to start/end a combo. If they want to do more, they will want to learn the ender manually. Maybe only allow one type of ender if just the ender assist part is turned on?
I feel like a match-ending move like an Ultra should have a tad more execution requirement than just a button press, however. Especially if it subjects the user to a long, drawn-out animation sequence they can't skip after the match is technically over. I feel like it's fair for that person to have to do a little more to earn that.
I dunno, maybe I'm saying, why isn't this mode just the default now? Why not just make the system more unified, yet simpler somehow without an assist mode-toggle? The in-combo motions are mostly superfluous now and seemingly trivial, so why not just axe them altogether? Maybe that might reduce the stigma of using it if everyone has the same control system. Even though I like having the trivial motions in there to feel like I'm more actively pulling off a combo, there's no way I'm going to do them if I don't have to. There's already enough to consider, so why do more work then necessary?
I know going into a fighters a lot of options can be intimidating. I guess perhaps making just one system would interfere with combo traits, so maybe that's why. Still, why not just eliminate the motions, make that the default but require holding back for traits the default like you would have to do with assist on? Those using assist would have to do that anyway, and for more advanced players, learning to hold back should be trivial if the motions would have been trivial for them.
It seems like this while being intended to help, it still creates some unnecessary confusion/division/stigma when learning. I'd almost rather they just merge everything into one control system if they're going to do this. If I recall the one-button combo in Persona is always there, so it's not as controversial. Perhaps having this assist be an on/off mode is what's problematic to me rather than the core system controls being revised and having everyone still under one more accessible system.
Yeah, I could see how that would be controversial. I would prefer it personally, I think, but I get the dilemma. I feel like it kinda does take it away to some degree effectively though, as I really don't have the need to do the motions anymore anyway. I think many feel like that has already happened with this mode, which would explain some of the reactions.
.la1n
Member
I want Shadow Maya the most. Orchid makes the most sense but I've never really cared for her.
Though I would like to see a Shadow non-human character, imagine Shadow Riptor.
Also there are three launch characters probably with Tusk and Kim-Wu? Rash has been like 90% without a stage so it would be weird to not include him.That makes the more than S2 thing true.
Though I would like to see a Shadow non-human character, imagine Shadow Riptor.
Also there are three launch characters probably with Tusk and Kim-Wu? Rash has been like 90% without a stage so it would be weird to not include him.That makes the more than S2 thing true.
.la1n
Member
According to Adam Isgreen he does recall getting the new voice actor to use DAH.
Darn, not the shadow characters I would have wanted.
It's pretty much a given that Kan-Ra is one of the ones getting a re-work, right?
.la1n
Member
Would be in line with comments that the dev team feels some characters could build meter too easily.
I think Riptor will be getting reworked still.
She feels very weak compare to other characters and characters like Aganos and Aria who are also not that favorable offer a more rare style compare to all the other Rushdown characters.
Also her combo trait is kind of invalidated a bit with combo assist.
She feels very weak compare to other characters and characters like Aganos and Aria who are also not that favorable offer a more rare style compare to all the other Rushdown characters.
Also her combo trait is kind of invalidated a bit with combo assist.