KILLZONE 3 |OT| The King Is Dead. Long Live The King.

alr1ghtstart said:
Well one thing is for certain, their community management has been horrendous for this game.
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I actually think that has to do with MotherH being promoted to Producer. Having someone as involved with the community as he is as the lead QA guy did wonders.
 
Cornbread78 said:
The longer they wait the more crowd they lose, I wish they disclosed the network numbers on a graph to show the usage level.

and by "dumbed down I mean they took out all the additional features that were there in KZ2 and launched the game without them. Why?
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They rewrote the KZ2 netcode.

Socom is a totally different crowd, but even Zipper has added modes and changed gameplay to suit the masses rather than keep to their roots. Not sure why all the Sony studios are makign such drastic changes to their formulas... We'll have to blame it on Kotick.... it has to be his fault...
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Nothing evil about changes. Have to look at the specific enhancements and fixes to comment. I see some people who have not played the game jumping to conclusion in the Socom thread also. Don't really want to be that guy.
 
ZephyrFate said:
the best part about playing Helghan in GW or Warzone is when you get to Bodycount and the dude says "Bodycount! Kill them all."

I fucking love the way that dude says that line.
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Radec said it so much better in KZ2.
 
Dubbedinenglish said:
Controlling a map IS entirely around controlling a TSP, there are large section of each map not used for what reason? There are TSPs there. So only revolve around maybe 1-2 people running though that area. Plus the lower spawn time makes taking an area where people are spawning with invincibility more difficult. Even more so when there is marker for other team mates to get involved. IN KZ2 setting up a flanking point and forward point were essential.
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Mostly but not quite. Was in a few games where the enemies were all Tacticians and rocket launchers in Salamun Market. They focused on TSPs but still lost 3-4 in the end. Body count, Assassinations, and S&R are not quite TSP focused. They still need to be careful of Infiltrators, Marksmen, Engineers and Medics.

Also spawn grenades were another form to be able to communicate and encourage your team to get involved. Like mentioned previously setting up a defense around a target and having people spawn there got the message across to get to that area because that is where the action is. In KZ3 there is no marker leading to people running around getting into 1v1 confrontations rather than a team effort.
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Spawn grenades need to be gimped to prevent breaking the game. Too many people don't know how to use it properly.

True in KZ2 there was a meta game of territory control with spawn grenades and that is why most abilities were defensive in nature, assault not withstanding, a good spawn had an airbot (pre-buff) or mines, or an engie bot to defend. Personally I called out to all my teamates that everyone who spawns secure the area till next person comes through. You took ground and captured it, that was the dynamic ebb and flow of spawn grenades. In KZ3 one person takes the TSP and that is it. TSP changeovers are far more difficult than overrunning a spawn, and after the TSP falls there is no retreat point or alternative spawn. You are stuck in your base and that is the end of the match.
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Being the defendent is already easier since you can camp. I don't see why they need to focus explicitly on defensive powers and then add Assault Class and Spawn Grenade to turn every game potentially into a clusterf*ck.

In KZ3, you face powerful defenders, but you yourself is also a supersoldier. When the team and conditions are right, you have a better chance to penetrate through the defense.

Am I saying the the KZ2 spawn grenade system was perfect? No. Actually it needed tweaking and there are plenty of fantastic suggestions in this thread already. The difference though is a tweaked dynamic spawn system would work infinitely better than the TSP system in place.
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Same can be said for TSPs. They are all dynamic depending on how you play the game. Even if a mission is "won", sometimes, I see teammates already predicting the next potential objectives and move towards them before the current round ends.
 
man the complaining and whining in this thread is never ending.....

I have stuck with operations pretty exclusively because it seems it does a good job at focusing players towards objectives and teamwork.

I was staying away from warzone but this weekend I played with a friend who just go the game and we had a blast all of sunday playing warzone. I think now the servers have more people who know whats what and how to win. There were alot of close matches making for an intense experience. It sucks when you first start playing and you get put on a team that does not have engineers or tacticians doing what they need to. But when your in a server where both teams know whats up, all the maps work just fine if you ask me.

Got through about half of the single player too, story jumps all over the place, but the battles are fun and alot more varied this time. I do feel at tiems KZ2 looked better, but texture wise KZ3 is astounding.
 
Dibbz said:
It's already been stated like 1 million times that it's not as simple as copy and pasting features from KZ2 over to KZ3. Everything had to be rewritten and they didn't have enough time to get all of those features into KZ3.
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it would be stupid to do this...but I think they did it anyway and they are paying the price now. Why would you not use the features which were working really well and just needed improvements instead of reinventing the whole wheel again is beyond me and a bad decision.

By the way looks like patch 1.0.7 is ready for deployment very soon according to MotherH.
 
Did anyone notice that you can clip or at least see through the door right after you get the jetpack?

Was that fixed in later patches?

IMO this game so far is tons more fun than Crysis 2 so far on the ps3.
 
NameIess said:
absolutely...
Anyone calling KZ3 a COD clone obviously have not really played the game, because the class system and game types create a very unique style for this game.

I'm tired of people acting like COD was the first game to implement shooting mechanics...
I even hear people on the Socom beta saying the game is a COD clone the dumbest shit I have ever heard.
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Honestly these people need to STFU, get the Move, get the Sharpshooter, and play the most fun multiplayer you can find in 2011.
 
Gvaz said:
Did anyone notice that you can clip or at least see through the door right after you get the jetpack?

Was that fixed in later patches?

IMO this game so far is tons more fun than Crysis 2 so far on the ps3.
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Yeah, as bad as this MP is, Crysis 2 is simply a giant POS. Now THAT is a true CoD knockoff. KZ3 easily outclasses it.
 
A.R.K said:
it would be stupid to do this...but I think they did it anyway and they are paying the price now. Why would you not use the features which were working really well and just needed improvements instead of reinventing the whole wheel again is beyond me and a bad decision.

By the way looks like patch 1.0.7 is ready for deployment very soon according to MotherH.
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I think "everything" has been touched to make room for better graphics (split-screen + 3D + larger levels), more responsive controls and a tighter low level network performance. The old code may be too difficult to change.


H_Prestige said:
Yeah, as bad as this MP is, Crysis 2 is simply a giant POS. Now THAT is a true CoD knockoff. KZ3 easily outclasses it.
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IMHO, the MP mode is fine. They "only" needed to fix the MTU bug, add custom games, and fix matchmaking issues that was inherited from KZ2. I see they are already adding new map variety.
 
That video makes me a bit more mad about the campaign and how so much potential was lost to show off more of the history and background in 3.


And not once was the "brutal atmosphere" addressed in the game! Sev and the other dudes sure seemed fine after 6+ months on Helghan.
 
Fucking higs get what they deserve. Don't want to have your shit fucked up? Don't call down the thunder when you try to hold Earth and colonies hostage via your interstellar travel tariffs.
 
Rikyfree said:
Fucking higs get what they deserve. Don't want to have your shit fucked up? Don't call down the thunder when you try to hold Earth and colonies ransom via your interstellar travel tariffs.
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Agreed.
 
So I'm about hour in to this game now, having just
left that annoying dude behind in the evac
, and so far I'm enjoying it a lot more than Killzone 2 which I thought was utter shit.

- I like that the game still feels "weighty" but the input is lag is gone. I still don't think FPS' feel good on the PS3 controller, but I'm not wrestling the controls like I did in KZ2.

- So far I feel that the game is flowing a lot better too. The story/dialogue is complete garbage, but I'm feeling more compelled to do one more level, whereas they seemed to drag in KZ2.

- Too much on-rails/vehicle sections so far. They're not fun and already they've been too frequent. I hope they become less common as the game progresses.

- It does look very nice. It's not as striking as a game like Uncharted 2, but it's hard to deny the tech they've squeezed into the game is incredibly impressive. I'd still argue the environments are slightly bland, but so far I've only played in a nuked city so that's not a fair comment at this point. Besides, they did do the look of a destroyed city really well, even if there were too many waist high barriers in my way.

I'm glad I'm renting it because I certainly don't think this is the gold standard FPS exclusive that Sony has been looking for, but the fact I'm enjoying it when playing KZ2 was a chore says a lot.
 
moonspeak said:
That video makes me a bit more mad about the campaign and how so much potential was lost to show off more of the history and background in 3.


And not once was the "brutal atmosphere" addressed in the game! Sev and the other dudes sure seemed fine after 6+ months on Helghan.
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Chances are there is probably terraform tech. It is implied that terraforming wasn't need for planet Gyre, which means they had this type of tech before first extrasolar war. There is 140 years between the events of that video and the start of KZ2. Also if you read the timeline, the helghan soldiers do not "need" the mask but wear it because of cultural identity. If you think about it, if all humans were supposed to die because of the conditions within 6 months, how would the children be able to endure it to pass the resistances on to the next generation?
 
moonspeak said:
That video makes me a bit more mad about the campaign and how so much potential was lost to show off more of the history and background in 3.


And not once was the "brutal atmosphere" addressed in the game! Sev and the other dudes sure seemed fine after 6+ months on Helghan.
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The Helghan environment has improved with technology. The Helghans mostly where the masks as simply a symbol of their past.
 
Wow, some of the teams are pretty good now. It's quite common for people to come back from behind today. The losses were also pretty close. The tally could be 6-1 or 5-2, but each round was very close. Victory was within our reach, but most of the time, we only slipped at the last minute. 8^(
 
I got to play for a few hours with bot matches and MP, all with the Sharpshooter. At first, the sharpshooter was pissing me off and I was ready to sell it back. But I gave it some time, just like I had to do with MAG when I first learned to use Move to play FPS. After a while, it started feeling a little better.

My arms and hands did begin to ache, but after hours of testing/tweaking, I think I've found a good sitting position with the right settings to make it work...and it really works.

I think where I see an advantage with the sharpshooter is specifically in the way that the Move controller is kept level at all times. When you just hold a Move with your hand, it's much easier (imo) to get off center. If you can get the bounding box settings and turn speed settings to feel right for how much you personally feel comfortable swiveling your arms, it seems like it's less physical work using the gun.

Also, it feels much more intuitive to me when it comes to pointing than just holding the Move in one hand. Without the sharpshooter, it just kinda feels like I'm using the Move controller to move the reticule around the screen, but with sharpshooter I feel like I'm aiming at the screen. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else, but it translated to me jumping right into online, not great at online FPS, and I was able to immediately hold my own (was first place on my team a couple times in a row).
 
moonspeak said:
That video makes me a bit more mad about the campaign and how so much potential was lost to show off more of the history and background in 3.


And not once was the "brutal atmosphere" addressed in the game! Sev and the other dudes sure seemed fine after 6+ months on Helghan.
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They all had grunge beards what are you talking about?
 
Posted this in another thread, would like to here KZ gaf's thoughts:
I know this may not be the place, but I know I could have done a better job at showing the utter hopelessness and forsaken feeling that the ISA had. Scenes of them burying their own, coming upon tortured and mutilated comrades, numerous suicides, men breaking. I mean really just flat out breaking. Like the scene where the HGH are messing with that guy with their new gun. He starts crying and yells "Kill me! Just fucking do it already I don't want to live!" They laugh and continue to torment him. At some point through torturing and humiliating him, he grabs one of their guns, and instead of killing them, just shoots himself. That shit is dark and sad and would have made the plot 10x better.
 
YoungHav said:
Irony that GG chased the COD crowd but KZ3 sales are slower than KZ2.
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Well, two things wrong with this post. One is that Killzone 3 is nothing like Call of Duty, the other is that Killzone 3 is actually selling much faster (judging by the online leaderboards, which is the only accurate metric we have).
 
It usually takes a few iterations to appeal to a different crowd and deepen the relationship.

In any case, I'm not sure if it's really going after the CoD crowd. They just made the controls more responsive. I think KZ3 is a pretty complex game (if you want to win). I noticed that GAF didn't quite like complex shooters like MAG too. You need to think fast and play very tactically (e.g., When to switch to Tactician, which route to take, how to take TSPs back, etc.). It's hardwork ! ^_^
 
Rikyfree said:
Posted this in another thread, would like to here KZ gaf's thoughts:
I know this may not be the place, but I know I could have done a better job at showing the utter hopelessness and forsaken feeling that the ISA had. Scenes of them burying their own, coming upon tortured and mutilated comrades, numerous suicides, men breaking. I mean really just flat out breaking. Like the scene where the HGH are messing with that guy with their new gun. He starts crying and yells "Kill me! Just fucking do it already I don't want to live!" They laugh and continue to torment him. At some point through torturing and humiliating him, he grabs one of their guns, and instead of killing them, just shoots himself. That shit is dark and sad and would have made the plot 10x better.
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I think it has a lot to do with the change of writter. Maybe Killzone 2 had a campaign that slogged a bit (for some people), but in retrospect it was pretty well written, especially in the 'big moments' of the story arch. The feeling of opression in the campaign is very well realized, where as Killzone 3 feels like 'Kill the glowing eyed badguys!'. Although they did attempt to include decent moments, such as Narville trying to get Hooper to eat, but the script treatment did feel exactly what it was, namely a Hollywood writter who is not intimately familiar nor passionate about the source material, applying a Hollywood treatment to the Killzone universe
 
Massa said:
Well, two things wrong with this post. One is that Killzone 3 is nothing like Call of Duty, the other is that Killzone 3 is actually selling much faster (judging by the online leaderboards, which is the only accurate metric we have).
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That's good to know... getting in is the easy part. Perfecting your strategies and tactics on different maps will take some time.

EDIT: I started playing as Tacticians late last week. Preference in descending order is: Medic, Tactician, Infiltrator, Marksman.
 
YoungHav said:
Irony that GG chased the COD crowd but KZ3 sales are slower than KZ2.
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Doubt it would have mattered, the reviews were still good and frankly KZ just never sold that amazingly well. KZ2 likely never even reached much more than 1.5 mil . Third game in the series was not going to magically turn the franchise around, and the shooter market just grows more and more saturated.

Zen said:
I think it has a lot to do with the change of writter. Maybe Killzone 2 had a campaign that slogged a bit (for some people), but in retrospect it was pretty well written, especially in the 'big moments' of the story arch. The feeling of opression in the campaign is very well realized, where as Killzone 3 feels like 'Kill the glowing eyed badguys!'.
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Atmosphere has little to do with writing. KZ2 simply lacked any real story line and what it had could have been written by anyone as it was one of the most straight forward storylines that it made COD seem complex with it's story telling. KZ2 lacked writing. KZ3 had bad writing. KZ2 simply had it's own unique style.
 
Massa said:
Well, two things wrong with this post. One is that Killzone 3 is nothing like Call of Duty, the other is that Killzone 3 is actually selling much faster (judging by the online leaderboards, which is the only accurate metric we have).
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Really, the leaderboards for KZ3 shows it's hasn't even hit 800k yet. KZ2 is alsmot at 2.7mill. I know it's still early and these figures aren't very accurate but I doubt KZ3 will pass KZ2 in sales, deservedly so.

Still so bitter.


This patch will probably be my last session with this game.
 
BattleMonkey said:
Doubt it would have mattered, the reviews were still good and frankly KZ just never sold that amazingly well. KZ2 likely never even reached much more than 1.5 mil . Third game in the series was not going to magically turn the franchise around, and the shooter market just grows more and more saturated.



Atmosphere has little to do with writing. KZ2 simply lacked any real story line and what it had could have been written by anyone as it was one of the most straight forward storylines that it made COD seem complex with it's story telling. KZ2 lacked writing. KZ3 had bad writing. KZ2 simply had it's own unique style.
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I actually think KZ3 had a more interesting overarching story, it was just poorly handled.
 
user friendly said:
Really, the leaderboards for KZ3 shows it's hasn't even hit 800k yet. KZ2 is alsmot at 2.7mill. I know it's still early and these figures aren't very accurate but I doubt KZ3 will pass KZ2 in sales, deservedly so.

Still so bitter.


This patch will probably be my last session with this game.
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yup. Agree 100%
 
JB1981 said:
I actually think KZ3 had a more interesting overarching story, it was just poorly handled.
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Well yea I think they had lot of good ideas but sloppy implementation and I think it's obvious that some aspects were rushed/cut since theres many abrupt transitions. It's not really that bad of a story though especially compared to the rest of the FPS market which is mostly all crap.

KZ1 though I think was really well done
 
It may actually mean GG needs to simplify their games (i.e., more like CoD ! ^_^) because it seems that some of us don't like complex tactics in shooters. KZ3 is simply not like CoD today.

I remember KZ2 sold on the initial visual experience but there was a lot of complains about the controls and narrow field of vision. Its current sales number also include the price drop (since it reached platinum).

If you really want to compare KZ2 and KZ3 sales performance, you should compare them in the same lifecycle (before the price drop !).
 
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