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[ShadyAcshuns]

When will these squirrels realize the more you try to squeeze us the more we slip through their fingers? They can't make us do anything, and from their privileged and pampered lofts, it drives them crazy, to the point they attack the people who will potentially support them. It's crazy.

 

[pudel]

I think that's just who you encountered. All these characters can be romanced by either character and theres not more dudes than women

7 Assassin’s Creed Odyssey Romances That Are Perfect For Kassandra (& 7 For Alexios)

Kassandra and Alexios both have quite a few romance options in Assassin's Creed Odyssey. Here's a look at some of the best for each.

gamerant.com

Should have definitely played with Kassandra...yep!

It was still the most meaningless and shallow relationship system I can think of in games.

 

[light2x]

I'm just glad there's a counter-counter culture against this shit now. People got tired of getting shit they didn't want shoved in their faces for years.

 

[MMaRsu]

Should have definitely played with Kassandra...yep!

It was still the most meaningless and shallow relationship system I can think of in games.

Yeah I also played as Kassandra. But the romances were utterly meaningless. And you dont even get to see anything lmao.

 

[Lokaum D+]

The intellectual concept of "being gay" didn't exist in the Middle Ages. Nor did the idea of "sexual orientation". What did exist was homosexuality and homosexual acts, but how they were seen -- including by the people who partook in them -- was completely different from today. Homosexual acts were not something that was "on the menu" of your "sex life" and that you could try out in certain circumstances, like the game seems to indicate. The idea of there being equivalence between heterosexuality and homosexuality (two intellectual notions that also didn't exist in the medieval mindset in the same way they do now) was unknown, even to people who were homosexuals. "Lying with a man" was something that a lot of people didn't even know existed or was possible, to give you an idea. So making Henry a character that entertains the idea of trying this act is not historically or psychologically plausible, considering what we know about him from the first game and the world he lives in.

It's not the end of the world and not a deal-breaker, but it's a stupid idea, and people can point that out, same they would with any other dumb or unnecessary story ideas, especially if one is a stickler for historical accuracy (to be honest, KCD 1 and I assume this one are not THAT historically accurate. There are many characters, situations and dialogue choices throughout that would not really have been plausible in the era depicted).

Are you rly trying to say that historically homosexuality or sex orientation wasnt a thing ?

In 7th century Plato already talked about homosexuality and sex orientation, what are you talking about ? How didnt ppl knew that homosexuality was a thing back then If It was ilegal and condemned by the Holy Roman Empire that Bohemia was part of?

Are we living in a simulation ? Is this real life ?

 

[nemiroff]

Are you rly trying to say that historically homosexuality or sex orientation wasnt a thing ?

In 7th century Plato already talked about homosexuality and sex orientation, what are you talking about ? How didnt ppl knew that homosexuality was a thing back then If It was ilegal and condemned by the Holy Roman Empire that Bohemia was part of?

Are we living in a simulation ? Is this real life ?

I bet he would have a catastrophic seizure if looking up "pederasty" which was the most common form of same-sex relationship in ancient Greece.

 

[SmokedMeat]

All these tears from asking a bunch of neckbeards to not act like assholes towards others lol

Wokies and Antiwokies are the biggest babies on the internet.

 

[Lokaum D+]

I bet he would have a catastrophic seizure if looking up "pederasty" which was the most common form of same-sex relationship in ancient Greece.

I dont knows were this ppl come from, i thougth that the stupid ppl was on the purple forum, It looks like i was wrong.

 

[Kreen101]

Are you rly trying to say that historically homosexuality or sex orientation wasnt a thing ?

In 7th century Plato already talked about homosexuality and sex orientation, what are you talking about ? How didnt ppl knew that homosexuality was a thing back then If It was ilegal and condemned by the Holy Roman Empire that Bohemia was part of?

Are we living in a simulation ? Is this real life ?

Did you read what I said? I said that the intellectual concept of "being gay" or "sexual orientation" didn't exist. There was homosexuality and there were homosexual acts. But the notion of thinking : "each person has a sexual orientation, where the object of one's love differs from one person to the other, with each being equivalent, and such inclination is a part of my identity as a unique person", that didn't exist. It wasn't part of the intellectual structures that people used to think of the world or of themselves. So it's always anachronistic to say, for instance, "Socrates was gay", because what the concept means to us now is alien to what homosexuality meant and was seen as in such distant eras. Socrates himself would not have understood or applied to himself what we think of when we talk of sexual orientation today -- the intellectual concept hadn't been invented yet.

It's the same with many other aspects of everyday life.

 

[Kreen101]

I bet he would have a catastrophic seizure if looking up "pederasty" which was the most common form of same-sex relationship in ancient Greece.

You're proving my point, you know.

 

[The Chairman]

Looks like the unskippable gay sex scene is real after all on top of Henry's optional gay sex scene lol

Spoiler

 

[proandrad]

Looks like the unskippable gay sex scene is real after all on top of Henry's optional gay sex scene lol

Spoiler

Our poor brothers in the Middle East, guess no KCD2 for you.

 

[JayK47]

Looks like the unskippable gay sex scene is real after all on top of Henry's optional gay sex scene lol

Spoiler

If true, that is pretty graphic. Not something I would want someone walking in on me while playing. I have young kids, so definitely could not play while they are running around. If there is graphic gay sex in the game, I am assuming there is graphic straight sex in the game as well. Right?

Why on earth are developers still making shit unskippable? I cannot stand that shit. Let me skip shit.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Did you read what I said? I said that the intellectual concept of "being gay" or "sexual orientation" didn't exist. There was homosexuality and there were homosexual acts. But the notion of thinking : "each person has a sexual orientation, where the object of one's love differs from one person to the other, with each being equivalent, and such inclination is a part of my identity as a unique person", that didn't exist. It wasn't part of the intellectual structures that people used to think of the world or of themselves. So it's always anachronistic to say, for instance, "Socrates was gay", because what the concept means to us now is alien to what homosexuality meant and was seen as in such distant eras. Socrates himself would not have understood or applied to himself what we think of when we talk of sexual orientation today -- the intellectual concept hadn't been invented yet.

It's the same with many other aspects of everyday life.

the gay concept really is modern, but how the concept of sexual orientation didn't exist if fucking Plato gave a Symposium about it in 7th century ? even if they used other terms it evolved from that era to ours, the concept existed not as we know today. I understand your point, but its wrong, sexual orientation had an "intellectual concept" since old days, it was way different that what is today, but that dosnt mean it wasnt a thing back then.

"While Plato discussed same-sex relationships in his dialogues, particularly in "Symposium," his views on sex orientation are complex and can't be easily categorized as strictly supporting or opposing homosexuality in modern terms; he emphasized a concept of "Platonic love" which prioritized intellectual and spiritual connection over purely physical desire, often expressed through same-sex relationships, but within a social context where the dynamics of power between older men and younger boys were prevalent."

As i said, the concept of "being gay" really is modern thing, but saying that ppl didn't knew about homosexuality or homosexual back then is also wrong.

Now about Henry, its plausible that he as a countryman that lived all his life in the countryside, going to the big city ll be another different experience for him, its plausible that he as a person with almost no knowledge of the world can be influenced or be curious about "new thing" even if he didn't demonstrated early.

I hate DEI on video game or any kind of media, but only when its been forced upon me or "patronizing" me , this is none of these, so i m OK, since i m a straight guy Henry ll be straight and i wont have to deal this same sex scene in game.

 

[Lokaum D+]

If true, that is pretty graphic. Not something I would want someone walking in on me while playing. I have young kids, so definitely could not play while they are running around. If there is graphic gay sex in the game, I am assuming there is graphic straight sex in the game as well. Right?

Why on earth are developers still making shit unskippable? I cannot stand that shit. Let me skip shit.

there isnt unskippable cutscenes in KCD1, i ll call this bs until i see in a video review or in person.

 

[pudel]

Why on earth are developers still making shit unskippable? I cannot stand that shit. Let me skip shit.

Everything is skippable. This was confirmed now hundred of times, also by previewers who already finished the game.

If true, that is pretty graphic. Not something I would want someone walking in on me while playing. I have young kids, so definitely could not play while they are running around. If there is graphic gay sex in the game, I am assuming there is graphic straight sex in the game as well. Right?

Its definitely not a game to play in front of young kids...yep. (even without the sex stuff)

 

[KyoZz]

Looks like the unskippable gay sex scene is real after all on top of Henry's optional gay sex scene lol

Spoiler

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

 

[Lokaum D+]

Looks like the unskippable gay sex scene is real after all on top of Henry's optional gay sex scene lol

Spoiler

Ok, this looks like a lot o BS from ppl that didnt play KCD before and dont know how Side-quest work in the game, geez

Spoiler

How Theresa was cheating on Henry if she thought he was dead ? how this is "controversial"? dafuq is wrong with this ppl? Also if i ' m not mistaken there isn't a single full nudity scene in the first game ( max they show is Theresa tits and Henry ass ), and now you are telling me they are showing full gay sex ? so like i said above i ll believe in this description when i play the game

And only one last thing, what is the problem of gay sex scenes ? wasnt GoT one of the most popular show in the world and i know that a lot of you guys watched that shit, all seasons.

 

[mayham2199]

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

It is a weird change after he said that but whatever this isn't going to ruin the game for me.

 

[Kreen101]

the gay concept really is modern, but how the concept of sexual orientation didn't exist if fucking Plato gave a Symposium about it in 7th century ? even if they used other terms it evolved from that era to ours, the concept existed not as we know today. I understand your point, but its wrong, sexual orientation had an "intellectual concept" since old days, it was way different that what is today, but that dosnt mean it wasnt a thing back then.

I think we're both essentially saying the same thing.

When I say "sexual orientation", I use the term to express our modern understanding of sexuality, which, as the word "orientation" indicates, posits a basic equivalence between same-sex and opposite-sex proclivities and acts. The term was forged to replace older tems such as "deviancy" or "disorder".

So homosexuality had an intellectual concept in the old days, but the concept wasn't that of a "sexual orientation" as the words are understood now. Socrates probably would have thought of homosexuality more as a refinement than an orientation. Marcel Proust -- who was "gay" in our parlance -- thought of homosexuality as psychological inversion. Etc.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

Yes, even if all of the claims are exaggerated, there is a very clear shift in what Vavra/Warhorse has said years ago and what he is saying now. At minimum, that's a fact.

 

[Trilobit]

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

Oh wow...their original comments about KCD1 are basically the benchmarks one can use to see how far they have diverged from their original vision. It also helps paint a clearer picture of what one can claim hints at tendencies of wokeness or ESG-meddling from the parent companies. It'd be fun to see a debate between the KCD1 developers and the KCD2 ones if we had a time machine lol.

Welp, at least they removed their draconian codes of conduct and replaced it with something respectful:

Edit:

Warhorse back then: "Henry is without a doubt a straight man!"

Warhorse now:

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Oh wow...their original comments about KCD1 are basically the benchmarks one can use to see how far they have diverged from their original vision. It also helps paint a clearer picture of what one can claim hints at tendencies of wokeness or ESG-meddling from the parent companies. It'd be fun to see a debate between the KCD1 developers and the KCD2 ones if we had a time machine lol.

Welp, at least they removed their draconian codes of conduct and replaced it with something respectful:

Edit:

Warhorse back then: "Henry is without a doubt a straight man!"

Warhorse now:

Absolute facts. It can be very clearly used as a reference point to what they are saying now, which is not compliant with what they were saying before. There is dissonance there. Regardless of the actual facts and what they end up being, there is dissonance in their previous communications versus what they are saying now. Discrepancy, without doubt. This raises many questions, but I'm pretty sure the conclusion is obvious. Creative vision is compromised and Vavra desperately, for whatever reason, wants to continue to act as if he's not influenced. To what degree is another question - I don't exactly believe random Steam forum posts talking about the review copy.

That said - it's really great to see them change these code of conduct policies. That should have never happened to begin with (I know this is not Warhorse's decision, but it doesn't matter - they should have immediately lobbied against these racist changes and had it resolved without an outcry necessary from the internet).

 

[Kreen101]

Absolute facts. It can be very clearly used as a reference point to what they are saying now, which is not compliant with what they were saying before. There is dissonance there. Regardless of the actual facts and what they end up being, there is dissonance in their previous communications versus what they are saying now. Discrepancy, without doubt. This raises many questions, but I'm pretty sure the conclusion is obvious.

Did they get an injection of cash from some DEI company? That's usually how it works.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Did they get an injection of cash from some DEI company? That's usually how it works.

Yes. They are owned by Embracer, this happened after the release of KCD.

 

[pudel]

There is dissonance there. Regardless of the actual facts and what they end up being, there is dissonance in their previous communications versus what they are saying now. Discrepancy, without doubt.

The only one who can answer this question is Vavra himself. Would really like to hear why he changed his stance on this matter. He claims that he was not influenced by anything or anybody....so it was his own decision.

 

[Gonzito]

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

Man...I wasn't very worried about this specific change but seeing this message really feels like Vavra was pushed to do it.

Sad but well I won't let something optional stopped me from enjoying the game

 

[Shadowstar39]

Based on what?

Some sex option and few black characters in a fucking huge map? They won't even have a position of power? Its not like they did not exist, just very rare to see in remote bohemia. Kutenberg was a big city back then that is present in sequel and was not in the first time.

Naw I think its fine. Everyone can use their brain on the decision here. Same for when they also decided to not have peoples of color in remote Bohemia.



The google list of DEI games is fucking hilarious. If peoples follow that they won't be playing many games.

This, I am as anti-woke as the come, but also a fan of KCD.

I only care that my immersion isn't lost or DEI is being pushed (my wife actually lost a promotion that her manager told her in private was due to them needing someone who fit the checkboxes, so I have seen it hit home. She had to train the person for the job she was a shoe-in for.) So i abhor DEI. If you promote it I will be against you. Anyone who is not a part of their favored groups that is for dei is a moron. It's like a chicken being for kfc...

All that being said, from what Varvra said about the game, its in a larger city, there is a black due in the enemy army and there is a gay option if you want it. You can totally not go down that road.
Big fucking deal. He said that people will react according to society at that time. A woke game would not do this. A woke game would be like "yaas queen, stunning and brave" or "bigot sandwiches ".

This game looks amazing and I'll be damned If i would take Endimyon's take over the creators. Dude's mo is to make contraversy for videos. He draws out every single minor thing as a fight. "I'm not going to say it is like this , but if it is they will have hell to pay" is the type of shit he pulls. When its legit fine, but dude goes over the top with the bs. Why to make video content and get money.
You are a moron if you don't see it.

Yeah fuck DEI, fuck woke. Having a character that can fit the story, or a gay option that isn't forced....big fucking deal. I am not against them, I am against immersion breaking and intersectional feminsim (woke religion).

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

All that being said, from what Varvra said about the game, its in a larger city, there is a black due in the enemy army and there is a gay option if you want it. You can totally not go down that road.
Big fucking deal. He said that people will react according to society at that time. A woke game would not do this. A woke game would be like "yaas queen, stunning and brave" or "bigot sandwiches ".

I mostly agree. But it is highly suspect that his current statements conflict with his previous statements. It causes one to wonder if what he's saying now can be trusted, ie is he lying or underrepresenting the changes and alterations present. I think that is one of the issues at hand, at least for me. I'm really interested in KCD2.

Man...I wasn't very worried about this specific change but seeing this message really feels like Vavra was pushed to do it.

Sad but well I won't let something optional stopped me from enjoying the game

Yes. It was argued many times that Henry is a fixed character (by Warhorse, Vavra). To 180 and say "it's an rpg bro" rings absolutely hollow and sows immediate distrust for anyone familiar with the previous debacle.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Steam discussions would be amazing if politics were banned, I tried asking for help on games only to see it (and other good threads) flooded out by dogshit like "Is there LGBTQ represenation here?" "Is this game woke?" Hopefully someday steam decides to take action.

So censorship an banning? That authoritarian action you are for. There is a forum for that resetera they will ban you for sneezing. Sorry but that is legit conversation.

I am against accusing warehorse but this shit is equally extreme. Woke sucks , over-reacting to woke sucks and censorship sucks.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Yes. It was argued many times that Henry is a fixed character (by Warhorse, Vavra). To 180 and say "it's an rpg bro" rings absolutely hollow and sows immediate distrust for anyone familiar with the previous debacle.

I don't understand that one. I didn't follow the drama back then but certainly I am NOW in a playthrough of KCD 1.

I can be psycho Henry or goody two-shoes Henry. How is that fixed?

 

[Trilobit]

I don't understand that one. I didn't follow the drama back then but certainly I am NOW in a playthrough of KCD 1.

I can be psycho Henry or goody two-shoes Henry. How is that fixed?

Can you be bi in KCD1?

 

[EviLore]

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

Definitely an ideological shift at Warhorse, then.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Can you be bi in KCD1?

No, but I mean, is it really fixed character? It certainly isn't. And Henry was basically a village boy without any knowledge of the world starting off. Like I don't want to claim a big city changes peoples but certainly, you weren't the same person from leaving the parent's house versus yourself a couple of years later, certainly not for Henry who went form a peasant to hanging out with nobles.

It is not fixed, so that argument makes no sense.

 

[Trilobit]

No, but I mean, is it really fixed character? It certainly isn't. And Henry was basically a village boy without any knowledge of the world starting off. Like I don't want to claim a big city changes peoples but certainly, you weren't the same person from leaving the parent's house versus yourself a couple of years later, certainly not for Henry who went form a peasant to hanging out with nobles.

It is not fixed, so that argument makes no sense.

But his sexuality was fixed in KCD1 as the developers said he was straight and nothing else.

 

[KyoZz]

This thread is also a good read with the response from the dev trying to justify why Musa, the West Africa character (literally saying how much Muslim are more feminist) is in the game:

Kingdom Come: Deliverance II :: Steam Community

steamcommunity.com

And then, after being corrected by people knowing more their stuff than him:

It really start to feel like a red flag. And I'd like to highlight this one particularly:

Maybe he was tired about the endless accusations from journalists the first time?

 

[Trilobit]

This thread is also a good read with the response from the dev trying to justify why Musa, the West Africa character (literally saying how much Muslim are more feminist) is in the game:

Kingdom Come: Deliverance II :: Steam Community

steamcommunity.com

And then, after being corrected by people knowing more their stuff than him:

It really start to feel like a red flag. And I'd like to highlight this one particularly:

Props to the dev responding respectfully and who actually seems to be open about stuff and isn't writing everything in yucky PR language.

 

[Buggy Loop]

But his sexuality was fixed in KCD1 as the developers said he was straight and nothing else.

In rural, out of parent's house and before all his experiences ranging from not being able to read, nor sword fight nor craft, nor...

A blank state Henry that barely moves a feet in front of the other

ok

I mean, by all means, skip on the game guys if that's the threshold it takes.

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

I don't understand that one. I didn't follow the drama back then but certainly I am NOW in a playthrough of KCD 1.

I can be psycho Henry or goody two-shoes Henry. How is that fixed?

No, but I mean, is it really fixed character? It certainly isn't. And Henry was basically a village boy without any knowledge of the world starting off. Like I don't want to claim a big city changes peoples but certainly, you weren't the same person from leaving the parent's house versus yourself a couple of years later, certainly not for Henry who went form a peasant to hanging out with nobles.

It is not fixed, so that argument makes no sense.

I'm just reiterating literally what is said by Warhorse/Vavra - you'd have to ask him.

This isn't the post of some random user on the internet. It's from Warhorse.

 

[pudel]

Maybe he was tired about the endless accusations from journalists the first time?

Honestly...maybe he was. And now he is getting hammered from the other side. Cant do shit right!

 

[Trilobit]

I'm just reiterating literally what is said by Warhorse/Vavra - you'd have to ask him.

This isn't the post of some random user on the internet. It's from Warhorse.

Going by this and Warhorse's communication they've basically confirmed that Henry has always been a bisexual French wheelchair-bound jedi. I wonder if Disney considers KCD as part of Star Wars canon.

 

[JayK47]

Clearly they have been influenced by Embracer since 2018 and made changes to Henry to appease them. Their response is not great and not transparent. But they can't be. If they say they made changes to satisfy Embracer, there would be trouble. So we have the game director trying to please everyone, while pleasing no one. I am sure most fans of the original game appreciated what it was, because even in 2018 it stuck out as unique since it didn't pander. So yes, you have pissed off many of your fan base. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Pretty sure sales will take a hit. Sucks that they were likely pressured by Embracer to make core changes to the main character. Hopefully stuff like this is on the way out.

 

[Drake]

man, I was so hyped for this game. Now with all this gay shit in it I may have to skip it.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Can you be bi in KCD1?

Taking baths together with your new friend while drunk is a pretty gay interactions nowadays If you ask ppl around here

 

[Lokaum D+]

No, but I mean, is it really fixed character? It certainly isn't. And Henry was basically a village boy without any knowledge of the world starting off. Like I don't want to claim a big city changes peoples but certainly, you weren't the same person from leaving the parent's house versus yourself a couple of years later, certainly not for Henry who went form a peasant to hanging out with nobles.

It is not fixed, so that argument makes no sense.

I think everyone here ll agree that when countryside boys and girls go to college they 100% dont come back like they were when they left.

 

[Fbh]

Big oof if true. Stumbled upon this about the first opus:

What happened to you Warhorse?

Damn, I didn't really care about some option to make Henry gay (as long as it's handled realistically within the historical context).
But this really does raise some red flags. They've basically taken a complete 180 turn from the previous game. They went from "Henry is NOT you, he is a pre established character who is straight" to " You ARE Henry, and he is bi".

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

Damn, I didn't really care about some option to make Henry gay (as long as it's handled realistically within the historical context).
But this really does raise some red flags. They've basically taken a complete 180 turn from the previous game. They went from "Henry is NOT you, he is a pre established character who is straight" to " You ARE Henry, and he is bi".

That's where I sit. Interested to see how things unfold.

 

[Lokaum D+]

" You ARE Henry, and he is bi".

So, that makes you bi too...

 

[Denton]

They went from "Henry is NOT you, he is a pre established character who is straight" to " You ARE Henry, and he is bi".

can be bi. Or can be hetero. Or can be asexual.

Those youtube posts were not written by Dan btw. They were written by some CM from that time (possibly the same one who responded in those steam forums screens). Obviously though, Dan did change his mind.

I find the inclusion of bi/gay romance and the african guy also somewhat bizzare considering the first game. But in the grand scheme of the entire 150+ hour game experience, it is going to be a complete non-issue. I'd bet most people won't even encounter the romanceable guy.
Now why did Warhorse change their mind? Maybe WH did it because they felt that without it, they would have no shot at Game Awards nomination. Or maybe they did it because Embracer demanded it. Or maybe they did it, because there are gay people on the team and Vávra agreed that exploring it through medieval prism would provide an interesting experience. We do not know, but I personally doubt Vávra is lying. After all, last time somebody forced him to do something he didn't want to do, he left the studio and founded his own.

 

[Fbh]

So, that makes you bi too...