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KINGSGLAIVE: Final Fantasy XV Thread: Everything for the future king

P

Philippo

Member
I only need this movie to hype me (and especially my friends) up for XV, then if it's a good movie by itself it's only added value.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Actually, the motivations are the one thing I had no problems with because I can totally see what they were trying to do. The problem is development. The motivations exist as they are, but they mean nothing to the audience without the actual setting these people are supposed to have lived in being fleshed out.

This wants to be a story about people who have been displaced by war, who don't have a firm sense of a home anymore. They cling to whatever promises come their way from those in power, and some of them are cynical about those who have a higher status than them because they don't understand the burden of power. These are not complex themes. But the trouble is, there is no attempt to really detail to show the land of Lucis outside of Insomnia. What were these lands they lost in the 12 years? How did the people live? Where is the world the these Kingsglaives grew up in? Without a good sense of that, none of the characters pay off. It wants to tackle the theme, but it doesn't want to put in the work to earn it. That's the narrative's problem. The other big problem is that there is this huge theme of the value of lives and heavy rests the head who wears the crown, etc, but we have no real sense of the sacrifice Regis has given for his kingdom, or what it means to be king. Without selling the audience on the price of having royal blood and the duty that goes with it, why should anyone care about everyone willing to sacrifice "all for the future king"?
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
Also, I thought that the lip syncing wasn't well done in many of the scenes. Voice acting ranges from ok to sounding very gamey, Libertus especially. I think I liked Luna and Regis' voices the best among the cast. Soundtrack wise, it wasn't really anything to write about. Definitely didn't feel like Yoko Shimomura's level. This is especially pronounced if you stay for the credits and her pievc from one of the trailers starts playing when the credits got to the FFXV part of the credits. That track just makes you want to go buy the game and soundtrack immediately.
 
T

The Last One

Member
entrydenied said:
Also, I thought that the lip syncing wasn't well done in many of the scenes. Voice acting ranges from ok to sounding very gamey, Libertus especially. I think I liked Luna and Regis' voices the best among the cast. Soundtrack wise, it wasn't really anything to write about. Definitely didn't feel like Yoko Shimomura's level. This is especially pronounced if you stay for the credits and her pievc from one of the trailers starts playing when the credits got to the FFXV part of the credits. That track just makes you want to go buy the game and soundtrack immediately.
Click to expand...

But Shimomura only did the movie's main theme if i'm not mistaken.
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
duckroll said:
Actually, the motivations are the one thing I had no problems with because I can totally see what they were trying to do. The problem is development. The motivations exist as they are, but they mean nothing to the audience without the actual setting these people are supposed to have lived in being fleshed out.

This wants to be a story about people who have been displaced by war, who don't have a firm sense of a home anymore. They cling to whatever promises come their way from those in power, and some of them are cynical about those who have a higher status than them because they don't understand the burden of power. These are not complex themes. But the trouble is, there is no attempt to really detail to show the land of Lucis outside of Insomnia. What were these lands they lost in the 12 years? How did the people live? Where is the world the these Kingsglaives grew up in? Without a good sense of that, none of the characters pay off. It wants to tackle the theme, but it doesn't want to put in the work to earn it. That's the narrative's problem. The other big problem is that there is this huge theme of the value of lives and heavy rests the head who wears the crown, etc, but we have no real sense of the sacrifice Regis has given for his kingdom, or what it means to be king. Without selling the audience on the price of having royal blood and the duty that goes with it, why should anyone care about everyone willing to sacrifice "all for the future king"?
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I feel as well. The film actually makes me kind of agree with the characters that Regis isn't really doing much to sacrifice because of what it doesn't show the audienxe. They should have establish how the crystal and ring ages and drains Regis but that was barely done in the film.

The Last One said:
But Shimomura only did the movie's main theme if i'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

Yes, i meant to say that the composer foe the movie does not really reach her level.
 
J

JeffZero

Purple Drazi
entrydenied said:
This is especially pronounced if you stay for the credits and her pievc from one of the trailers starts playing when the credits got to the FFXV part of the credits. That track just makes you want to go buy the game and soundtrack immediately.
Click to expand...

...they planned this!!
 
D

duckroll

Member
NoctisVsStar said:
Close ups ?
Click to expand...

cantseeshit.

There's this hilarious scene near the final act where Luna is being attacked by a mech while Nyx is crashing the car somewhere, and I honestly had no idea what the fuck was going on from cut to cut. I could tell that they wanted it to feel INTENSE and that there was a lot of car flipping, debris, and this artificial sense of urgency in the direction, but the cuts were so quick, the scenes were so dark, and it was just in your face. I had no idea what direction the car was going in, what it was crashing into, or where it was happening in relation to Luna being chased. Mess.
 
T

The Last One

Member
entrydenied said:
Yeah, this is what I feel as well. The film actually makes me kind of agree with the characters that Regis isn't really doing much to sacrifice because of what it doesn't show the audienxe. They should have establish how the crystal and ring ages and drains Regis but that was barely done in the film.



Yes, i meant to say that the composer foe the movie does not really reach her level.
Click to expand...

Oh sorry. The theme she composed plays at the credits scene?
 
V

vainglorious

Member
duckroll said:
Actually, the motivations are the one thing I had no problems with because I can totally see what they were trying to do. The problem is development. The motivations exist as they are, but they mean nothing to the audience without the actual setting these people are supposed to have lived in being fleshed out.

This wants to be a story about people who have been displaced by war, who don't have a firm sense of a home anymore. They cling to whatever promises come their way from those in power, and some of them are cynical about those who have a higher status than them because they don't understand the burden of power. These are not complex themes. But the trouble is, there is no attempt to really detail to show the land of Lucis outside of Insomnia. What were these lands they lost in the 12 years? How did the people live? Where is the world the these Kingsglaives grew up in? Without a good sense of that, none of the characters pay off. It wants to tackle the theme, but it doesn't want to put in the work to earn it. That's the narrative's problem. The other big problem is that there is this huge theme of the value of lives and heavy rests the head who wears the crown, etc, but we have no real sense of the sacrifice Regis has given for his kingdom, or what it means to be king. Without selling the audience on the price of having royal blood and the duty that goes with it, why should anyone care about everyone willing to sacrifice "all for the future king"?
Click to expand...

These are legitimate criticisms in terms of film making but isn't this also kind of missing the point? This movie is supposed to set up the events of the game and provides some backstory that will be further explored in the game as its played (especially the relationship between Regis and Noctis etc). As long as the movie is successful in establishing a premise and laying a foundation for the game's narrative to build upon I'd consider it to be successful. The tricky thing with Kingsglaive is that it's not a separate narrative, but it's a narrative in parallel with the events of the game.
 
K

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
duckroll said:
I don't think it not being Versus is that big a deal. Just a personal thing for me. But I really don't find what they tried to do in Kingsglaive very interesting. It tries to go for the FFXII and GoT serious fantasy style, but just doesn't quite nail it.
Click to expand...

I was afraid of this. It's obvious they stripped away much of the aesthetic from Nomura's original ideas but what they replaced it with seems... bland at best.
 
D

duckroll

Member
vainglorious said:
These are legitimate criticisms in terms of film making but isn't this also kind of missing the point? This movie is supposed to set up the events of the game and provides some backstory that will be further explored in the game as its played (especially the relationship between Regis and Noctis etc). As long as the movie is successful in establishing a premise and laying a foundation for the game's narrative to build upon I'd consider it to be successful. The tricky thing with Kingsglaive is that it's not a separate narrative, but it's a narrative in parallel with the events of the game.
Click to expand...

No, it is not missing the point at all. Have you watched the film? It's not really backstory for the game, it is a relatively self contained story from the point of view of characters who won't be in the game at all. Sure, it shows the Insomnia invasion which was supposedly cut out from the game itself, but the majority of the film focuses on Nyx and the Kingsglaive. The themes and motivations they built around the Kingsglaive is the foundation of the film. And they completely fail to develop that.
 
D

DarkLordMalik

Member
Can't say I am disappointed by Duckroll's review. I enjoyed FFVII: AC and similarly have enjoyed every animated RE movie. Kingsglaive looks good to me so far and I am not going to watch the movie expecting a masterpiece. If it can prove to be entertaining, that's all what matters to me.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
Well, I mean I know who did what for the movie but I'm in no uncertain terms not going to talk about anything that's not explicitly already mentioned by press releases and media, etc. heh.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
Kagari said:
I was afraid of this. It's obvious they stripped away much of the aesthetic from Nomura's original ideas but what they replaced it with seems... bland at best.
Click to expand...

With regard to the game itself, I'd much rather see them genuinely double down on the road-trip-bros thing and nail it than have really half-assed attempts at political and inter-family drama. If they can't get the latter part right, I'd rather see the game focus on its strengths. I'll mourn for the loss of Stella and mobster-Regis, but a poor version of the Versus tone (rather than a wholly new tone) will just bum me out more.
 
V

vainglorious

Member
duckroll said:
No, it is not missing the point at all. Have you watched the film? It's not really backstory for the game, it is a relatively self contained story from the point of view of characters who won't be in the game at all. Sure, it shows the Insomnia invasion which was supposedly cut out from the game itself, but the majority of the film focuses on Nyx and the Kingsglaive. The themes and motivations they built around the Kingsglaive is the foundation of the film. And they completely fail to develop that.
Click to expand...

It wasn't supposedly cut, it was deliberately cut when Versus was re-planned as FFXV due to resource and time management.

Hold on, let me find that quote from Tabata!

“When we first sat down to re-plan the project that’s Final Fantasy XV, we really looked at which elements we need and should use and could do to create that kind of unique gameplay experience that we wouldn’t really get anywhere else. It was a very in-depth discussion about what elements to keep and what to throw away or change. We felt because the theme we’re trying to handle here with the story is such a massive epic tale, we really couldn’t fit all of that into the game that we had the time to make. So we wanted to show the essential things to get the best story across, which is where we decided on that—that’s reflected in the final form of the game.

“It’s not that we don’t need to show the Niflheim invasion to get the story across, but because that episode is something that would take up so much effort and time that rather than force it into the game, we started up its own separate project independently, and that’s the tale we wanted to tell with the film. That’s why we moved that to Kingsglaive. From a story perspective we’d have to have both the game and the film, both of these together in one package, but realistically that’s not something we could have done in one game, it’s too much.

“It’s very similar to the kind of decision we had to ask ourselves, OK do we spend another six years to develop that whole complete package as one game or do we spend three years to do it in the way that we’re doing now? I think, it really doesn’t affect it which one you get to see—from a story perspective whether you see it as part of the game or through the film, and how we tell that story is not such a thing which is affected by that choice. We really are confident that we’ve made a really great experience with that. We felt the most important thing we needed to depict through the game was that idea of traveling together with these comrades and watching them all grow and develop as people emotionally at the same time. We really have gotten that in there, so from a story perspective I think we’ve done the best we can.”

http://www.novacrystallis.com/2016/06/tabata-on-why-final-fantasy-xvs-original-opening-was-cut/

Super long quote! Sorry.

I mean, I think we're arguing semantics, which is silly (backstory vs not backstory). But when I've read Tabata's statments on the development of the game and the movie I've always interpreted them as stating that the movie and the game are fundamentally connected, and that the original backstory of the Niflheim invasion was cut and developed into a separate film because it would've added another 3 years to development time if it was kept in the game.

Now how successful the movie is in standing up on its own without the game is entirely up for debate and if after watching the film you feel it doesn't do the job that's cool.

But when we've seen moments in the actual game such as Noctis and co reading newspaper headlines, and hearing radio announcements detailing the Niflheim invasion and its fall out that they are forced to respond and react to in game, how is the movie not backstory for the game? I don't know. My two cents. I'll wait till I see it.
 
D

duckroll

Member
vainglorious said:
I mean, I think we're arguing semantics, which is silly (backstory vs not backstory). But when I've read Tabata's statments on the development of the game and the movie I've always interpreted them as stating that the movie and the game are fundamentally connected, and that the original backstory of the Niflheim invasion was cut and developed into a separate film because it would've added another 3 years to development time if it was kept in the game.

Now how successful the movie is in standing up on its own without the game is entirely up for debate and if after watching the film you feel it doesn't do the job that's cool.

But when we've seen moments in the actual game such as Noctis and co reading newspaper headlines, and hearing radio announcements detailing the Niflheim invasion and its fall out that they are forced to respond and react to in game, how is the movie not backstory for the game? I don't know. My two cents. I'll wait till I see it.
Click to expand...

No I don't think you understand. The majority of the film is about characters and factions which are totally self-contained in Kingsglaive. These are people who have nothing to do with Noctis and will have no role in FFXV because their story is over. They chose to make a movie about these people, and they did a piss poor job of developing them. You can't say "oh the movie is just backstory for the game, so if it doesn't explain much, you're just supposed to play the game" when the biggest flaws of the lack of development in the setting is unique to Kingsglaive.

The problem isn't that we don't know what Regis' relationship with his son is. The problem is that we don't know what Regis' relationship with his people is. It's not made clear, so it's hard to feel what the film wants us to feel about these supposedly conflicted emotions. It's not clear what the places Nyx and Crowe grew up in are like, so it's hard to really have a good understanding of what defines them as characters and why the different Kingsglaive members feel differently about their role as Kingsglaive and being seen as foreigners in Insomnia when they're all Lucians. The film chooses to showcase these themes, but also lacks the ability to develop them in a satisfactory manner.
 
W

wmlk

Member
I think the whole thing about the Kingsglaive not having a sense of home and being warriors with ties to Lucis is something that's specific to the movie itself. While it sucks that this aspect wasn't developed throughout the movie, I don't think that says much for the game since the Kingsglaive isn't going to make any sort of major appearance in the game from what it looks like. It almost feels like this part was bound to fail.

It sucks, but I don't think this means that the game's character development will suck. I think Noctis from trailer to trailer shows more development than anyone from Kingsglaive (just by watching the trailers and reading impressions).
 
W

wmlk

Member
badcrumble said:
With regard to the game itself, I'd much rather see them genuinely double down on the road-trip-bros thing and nail it than have really half-assed attempts at political and inter-family drama. If they can't get the latter part right, I'd rather see the game focus on its strengths. I'll mourn for the loss of Stella and mobster-Regis, but a poor version of the Versus tone (rather than a wholly new tone) will just bum me out more.
Click to expand...

What is a poor version of the Versus tone? Do we have a good idea of what it actually meant for the game? Do you really believe fast cuts of CG from trailers are enough to communicate what a 50 hour game might have?

Stuff like this usually works better in a condensed format like trailers, but to lengthen it to a 50 hour game you lose a lot of that focus.
 
I

Ishida

Banned
wmlk said:
What is a poor version of the Versus tone? Do we have a good idea of what it actually meant for the game? Do you really think trailers are enough to communicate what a 50 hour game might have?
Click to expand...

People have been developing some extreme fan fiction in their minds regarding what Versus was actually going to be.
 
V

vainglorious

Member
duckroll said:
No I don't think you understand. The majority of the film is about characters and factions which are totally self-contained in Kingsglaive. These are people who have nothing to do with Noctis and will have no role in FFXV because their story is over. They chose to make a movie about these people, and they did a piss poor job of developing them. You can't say "oh the movie is just backstory for the game, so if it doesn't explain much, you're just supposed to play the game" when the biggest flaws of the lack of development in the setting is unique to Kingsglaive.

The problem isn't that we don't know what Regis' relationship with his son is. The problem is that we don't know what Regis' relationship with his people is. It's not made clear, so it's hard to feel what the film wants us to feel about these supposedly conflicted emotions. It's not clear what the places Nyx and Crowe grew up in are like, so it's hard to really have a good understanding of what defines them as characters and why the different Kingsglaive members feel differently about their role as Kingsglaive and being seen as foreigners in Insomnia when they're all Lucians. The film chooses to showcase these themes, but also lacks the ability to develop them in a satisfactory manner.
Click to expand...

Omg
their story is over as in like... I can read between the lines Duckroll! I think I know what you mean. Oh nooo. I was hoping we'd get a lot of cross over between the game and the movie but if not :( Duckroll you're killing my FF fanboy soul
 
W

wmlk

Member
vainglorious said:
Omg
their story is over as in like... I can read between the lines Duckroll! I think I know what you mean. Oh nooo. I was hoping we'd get a lot of cross over between the game and the movie but if not :( Duckroll you're killing my FF fanboy soul
Click to expand...

Apparently there's some carry over or at least potential of it. Drautos is in FFXV for example from one CG cutscene.

I think the few characters from Kingsglaive that could appear in FFXV were part of the original story concepts.
 
K

Koozek

Member
Talk about changes from Versus in 2016, brehs.


Falk said:
solution: pee till the game is out
Click to expand...

1470825091-ffxv2.jpg
 
D

duckroll

Member
wmlk said:
The two are connected, and everyone knows this. I think it's still topical.
Click to expand...

I'm just not sure what relevance it has to say that FFXV might have better character development in addressing a critique on Kingsglaive. Like... okay? The game isn't even out. We're talking about the movie here. Which is out.
 
W

wmlk

Member
duckroll said:
I'm just not sure what relevance it has to say that FFXV might have better character development in addressing a critique on Kingsglaive. Like... okay? The game isn't even out. We're talking about the movie here. Which is out.
Click to expand...

You're judging the movie in its own bubble, while I'm only treating it as a precursor to FFXV. The whole thing about
KotR
means less to me in Kingsglaive and means much more to what it might mean in FFXV.

Maybe you're right, but you can extrapolate a lot of things with the movie too.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
wmlk said:
You're judging the movie in its own bubble, while I'm only treating it as a precursor to FFXV. The whole thing about
KotR
means less to me in Kingsglaive and means much more to what it might mean in FFXV.

Maybe you're right, but you can extrapolate a lot of things with the movie too.
Click to expand...

I think it's reasonably likely that Kingsglaive doesn't stand on its own - furthermore, that FFXV won't necessarily retroactively improve Kingsglaive on future viewings. The purpose of Kingsglaive is to shoulder a bunch of the storytelling burden for FFXV, not the other way around.
 
V

vainglorious

Member
duckroll said:
I'm just not sure what relevance it has to say that FFXV might have better character development in addressing a critique on Kingsglaive. Like... okay? The game isn't even out. We're talking about the movie here. Which is out.
Click to expand...

No that's not entirely what some of us are suggesting. Since the game and film are two sides of the same coin the hope is, well at least my hope is, that the game will pick up and fill in some of the holes from the film.

Edit -

badcrumble said:
I think it's reasonably likely that Kingsglaive doesn't stand on its own - furthermore, that FFXV won't necessarily retroactively improve Kingsglaive on future viewings. The purpose of Kingsglaive is to shoulder a bunch of the storytelling burden for FFXV, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

I think you may be right.
 
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