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[bjb]

That Miami team post-Shaq pre-Lebron was dominating. I think they averaged 35 wins?
Toronto has been a force to be afraid of for years.
Where was Mike Miller at before Miami again?
Birdman as the centerpiece of that dynasty in Denver was sick.


...

Pretty sure he means that they were dominating players and the centerpieces of their team before they came together.

 

[ph33nix]

I guess we should diminish the majority of championships won by teams cause they were too stacked compared to the rest of the league


all this "debate" is really people just throwing stats at each other that favor their own argument at their convenience

 

[zychi]

You're right. Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, and Shane Battier are all slouches. They've done nothing in their career to merit any notice.

If only Lebron could get more help.

You're right, if only they weren't all over the hill and on the decline of their careers(with the exception of Bosh, 31(wade),34(Shane), 37!!!(Ray Allen))

Kobe is 34 and people think he's done.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

I guess we should diminish the majority of championships won by teams cause they were too stacked compared to the rest of the league


all this "debate" is really people just throwing stats at each other that favor their own argument at their convenience

Well it would probably be because there are people in this thread praising the second coming of the messiah Lebron James who is single handedly carrying a bunch of scrubs who never even played Basketball before to multiple championships.

Clearly he's better than any player in history especially Jordan.

 

[Messi]

I guess we should diminish the majority of championships won by teams cause they were too stacked compared to the rest of the league


all this "debate" is really people just throwing stats at each other that favor their own argument at their convenience

Kobe makes some nice shoes. Lebron, not so much.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

You're user name shows you are bias. So I'll just say this, without Gasol, Kobe didn't sniff the finals for years.

LBJ made it to the finals with Cleveland. Who were garabge before and after Lebron(tho I do love watching Kyrie)

In the East lol. Congrats? The NBA East is to AAA baseball what the NBA West is to MLB.

 

[Black Mamba]

You're user name shows you are bias. So I'll just say this, without Gasol, Kobe didn't sniff the finals for years.

LBJ made it to the finals with Cleveland. Who were garabge before and after Lebron(tho I do love watching Kyrie)

If you spent time in the NBA thread you'd see I criticize Kobe a lot. I'm just pointing out the stupidity in your posts.

Of course Kobe doesn't sniff the Finals without Gasol. What kind of argument is that. Does MJ make it without Pippen? Does Shaq make it without Kobe, Wade, or Penny? Does KG make it without Pierce and Allen?

Lebron doesn't make it without Wade or Bosh, either, except the WORST conference in NBA history. That 2007 Eastern conference was a joke and deserves an asterisk. We may never see that happen again.

Detroit was the 1 seed with 53 wins, Cleveland 2 with 50. Suffice it to say, Lebron turned in the worst Finals performance in NBA history for a superstar as a result and got swept. That team was bad and simply made the Finals because someone had to go there.

edit: And I'd like to point out Boston was up 3-2 last year on Miami until Bosh came back. And Bosh was huge in game 6 and game 7 (along with Lebron's masterpiece game 6) and they don't get there w/o him.

 

[Black Mamba]

You're right, if only they weren't all over the hill and on the decline of their careers(with the exception of Bosh, 31(wade),34(Shane), 37!!!(Ray Allen))

Kobe is 34 and people think he's done.

Wade is still an elite player, wtf are you talking about? Sure Ray Allen is over the hill but can still hit shots, Shane was always just about defense and 3s so age affects him less.

You know, Wade was 29 the first Finals they made together, and what did Lebron do in that finals again? Remind me?

 

[ph33nix]

Well it would probably be because there are people in this thread praising the second coming of the messiah Lebron James who is single handedly carrying a bunch of scrubs who never even played Basketball before to multiple championships.

Clearly he's better than any player in history especially Jordan.

Up until this last page I didn't really see that. I just don't get why people like to conveniently argue that LeBron NEEDS stacked teams to win, as if that's not something Kobe needs, when he's gotten to play on the best team when he's won (He's part of it, not the sole reason)

 

[ph33nix]

DP

 

[numble]

I saw your post pre-edit, ph33nix. LOL

 

[zychi]

Wade is still an elite player, wtf are you talking about? Sure Ray Allen is over the hill but can still hit shots, Shane was always just about defense and 3s so age affects him less.

You know, Wade was 29 the first Finals they made together, and what did Lebron do in that finals again? Remind me?

Game 1:
24 points, 9-of-16, nine rebounds, five assists, one steal, and one turnover
2:
20 points, 8 of 15, eight rebounds, four assists, four steals, one block, and five turnovers
3:
17 points, 6-of-14, nine assists, three rebounds, two steals, and four turnovers
4His Kobe 6/24 game, but without ref help to keep his point total up)
Eight points, 3-of-11, nine rebounds, seven assists, two steals, and four turnovers
5:
17 points, 8-of-19, 10 rebounds, 10 assists, one block, and four turnovers
6:
21 points, 9-of-15, six assists, four rebounds, one steal, one block, and six turnovers

e: you know Wade has been an injured mess since he won his first ring right?

 

[Spiderjericho]

Kobe makes some nice shoes. Lebron, not so much.

According to Nike the Lebron 9s were the second biggest line behind Jordan brand last year. The Kobe 7s get a lot of complaints in regards to comfort and performance.

I will say I'm a big fan of the Kobe 8s. The Lebron X is a great performance shoe but bulky and had uninspired color ways.

But ugh back to your debate.

 

[Black Mamba]

Game 1:
24 points, 9-of-16, nine rebounds, five assists, one steal, and one turnover
2:
20 points, 8 of 15, eight rebounds, four assists, four steals, one block, and five turnovers
3:
17 points, 6-of-14, nine assists, three rebounds, two steals, and four turnovers
4His Kobe 6/24 game, but without ref help to keep his point total up)
Eight points, 3-of-11, nine rebounds, seven assists, two steals, and four turnovers
5:
17 points, 8-of-19, 10 rebounds, 10 assists, one block, and four turnovers
6:
21 points, 9-of-15, six assists, four rebounds, one steal, one block, and six turnovers

e: you know Wade has been an injured mess since he won his first ring right?

If Wade is an injured mess, then Kobe's been an injured mess too. what kind of excuse is this? Wade has a 24 PER, .19 WS/48, 57% TS%. Give me a break. He's still elite, one of the 10 best players in the NBA.

I didn't actually meant for you to post what Lebron's stats were in the 2011 Finals. Did you watch it? Did you see him wilt the final 5 4th quarters, playing hot potato? Not able to post up JJ Barea or Jason Kidd?

We'll start with the cold, hard numbers. Over at TrueHoop, the ESPN Stats & Info group delivers the goods. They've found that James has scored just 11 points in the fourth quarter in the Finals, which comes to an average of 2.2 points per game in that quarter, down from his average of 7.6 points in the previous three rounds this season. That means he's contributing less than a third of the scoring that he normally did heading into the series against Dallas.

But it gets worse. If we sharpen the focus to just crunch-time (less than five minutes remaining, score within five points), James' numbers fall off a cliff:
Perhaps most startling of all is LeBron James’ crunch-time absence in a series that has seen all five games decided late. When the score has been within five points in the last five minutes, James has yet to score in the series, missing all seven shots. Those numbers contrast sharply with Dirk Nowitzki's 26 crunch-time points on 8-13 shooting, not to mention the 34-point difference in plus-minus.

S & I informs us that James doesn't even have a crunch-time rebound either. It's a stark contrast to what he was doing previously in the playoffs in the clutch, when he shot a hot 15-for-31 (48.4 percent) entering the Finals (NBA average is 39.2 percent in these situations.) His efficiency from the floor had been better than anything we'd seen in years.

Want another stat? ESPN Insider's John Hollinger provides some framework around James' 11 points in 60 fourth-quarter minutes:
That’s a wee bit south of superstar territory. Actually, it’s a wee bit south of Juwan Howard territory -- he averaged 14 points per 60 minutes this season. Every Miami player except Joel Anthony scored at a higher rate.

Don't care for statistics? Well, do you dig pictures? Well, Tom Ziller of SB Nation has just the thing for you. Over at his NBA blog, Ziller put together a fantastic infographic called "LeBron James Every Shot Review" that illustrates, well, every shot James has taken in the Finals. When did he take them? Where did he take them? Did it go in? Go check it out.

Ziller sums it up by comparing James -- not to Howard or Anthony like Hollinger did -- but to [gasp!] Mike Bibby:
So not only is LeBron being less aggressive a scorer in the fourth quarter, and not only is he relying more on jumpers than inside play than in the second and third quarters, not only is he missing most of his shots in fourth ... he's also getting worse altogether as the series rolls on. At this rate, by Game 7 he'll be Mike Bibby. It's a perfect storm of misery.

 

[Kobe24]

Let me chime in shall I? The Lakers and Cavs in 09 were the two best teams on the NBA. Guaranteed Finals matchup. Hell, Nike busted out the Kobe/Lebron puppets to build the hype. Kobe did his job. Lebron? Busy getting SPANKED by the Magic. Hitting a buzzer beater to save a frickin sweep. 66 win team, getting manhandled by the Magic. Oh well, we got next year right? Wrong. 2010, Cavs favorites yet again, but get abused by the Celtics team that tanked throughout the season, while Lebron glorified the reg season as usual. Kobe was on one leg when LA won the chip in 2010. And don't even get me started on the Cavs 07 final run. That Eastern conference was the lowest of the lows. Cavs went through a decimated Wizards team without Arenas/Butler, a ragged ass Nets team, and has been Pistons, only to showcase the worst Finals in recent memory. Don't worry Lebron had to team up with Wade/Bosh to beat those pesky Celtics, because everyone knows that shit wasn't happening as is.

 

[zychi]

If Wade is an injured mess, then Kobe's been an injured mess too. what kind of excuse is this? Wade has a 24 PER, .19 WS/48, 57% TS%. Give me a break. He's still elite, one of the 10 best players in the NBA.

I didn't actually meant for you to post what Lebron's stats were in the 2011 Finals. Did you watch it? Did you see him wilt the final 5 4th quarters, playing hot potato? Not able to post up JJ Barea or Jason Kidd?

Yup. Youre argument is that miami is stacked. Theyre not. Wade is not the same Wade he was with Shaq, or even 80% Wade in 2011.

You see Kobe shoot his team out of a ring at 6/24?
You see Kobe and his team ATTACK Dallas and JJ Barea because of how salty they were?

You see that Gasol has been the best Laker since he has been in LA?

 

[Black Mamba]

Yup. Youre argument is that miami is stacked. Theyre not. Wade is not the same Wade he was with Shaq, or even 80% Wade in 2011.

My argument is that he doesn't have slouches for teammates, which you implied.

You see Kobe shoot his team out of a ring at 6/24?
You see Kobe and his team ATTACK Dallas and JJ Barea because of how salty they were?

You see that Gasol has been the best Laker since he has been in LA?

Gasol the best Laker? Are you kad? Lebron made fun of Dirk for having a cold right before being embarrassed.

 

[KidA Seven]

Let me chime in shall I? The Lakers and Cavs in 09 were the two best teams on the NBA. Guaranteed Finals matchup. Hell, Nike busted out the Kobe/Lebron puppets to build the hype. Kobe did his job. Lebron? Busy getting SPANKED by the Magic. Hitting a buzzer beater to save a frickin sweep. 66 win team, getting manhandled by the Magic. Oh well, we got next year right? Wrong. 2010, Cavs favorites yet again, but get abused by the Celtics team that tanked throughout the season, while Lebron glorified the reg season as usual. Kobe was on one leg when LA won the chip in 2010. And don't even get me started on the Cavs 07 final run. That Eastern conference was the lowest of the lows. Cavs went through a decimated Wizards team without Arenas/Butler, a ragged ass Nets team, and has been Pistons, only to showcase the worst Finals in recent memory. Don't worry Lebron had to team up with Wade/Bosh to beat those pesky Celtics, because everyone knows that shit wasn't happening as is.

LeBron was pretty shit in that series vs the Pistons. Had 2 great games (one that overrated his series performance) and 4 very shit games. Someone look up the boxscores. He continued that shooting performance vs the Spurs.

 

[Hellix]

Aside, Lebron's game in Boston last season for game 6 was amazing. The expectations and pressure on that Heat team was through the roof.

 

[BadAss2961]

I like how people are acting like Lebron isn't on one of the most stacked teams in league history.

Everyone seems to have forgotten that he couldn't get it done in Cleveland and left for a super team that would make everything come much easier for him. No one remembers what a bitch move it was. lol

People forget that this is exactly what was to be expected when three superstars colluded to stack up on one team. On top of that, all the best role-players wanna go there now when they're free agents.

LeBron's the best player in the NBA, but he also clearly has it easier than any other star in the league. With two other guys that can carry the load, and shooters all over the place, he can pick and choose how he wants to play on most nights.

Dirk still kicked their ass the first year.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Yup. Youre argument is that miami is stacked. Theyre not. Wade is not the same Wade he was with Shaq, or even 80% Wade in 2011.

You see Kobe shoot his team out of a ring at 6/24?
You see Kobe and his team ATTACK Dallas and JJ Barea because of how salty they were?

You see that Gasol has been the best Laker since he has been in LA?

Atleast kad doesnt try to troll. You're trying and its just bad. Come over to NBA-Age and learn how to troll Lakers fans correctly.

 

[The M.O.B]

Everyone seems to have forgotten that he couldn't get it done in Cleveland and left for a super team that would make everything come much easier for him. No one remembers what a bitch move it was. lol

People forget that this is exactly what was to be expected when three superstars colluded to stack up on one team. On top of that, all the best role-players wanna go there now when they're free agents.

LeBron's the best player in the NBA, but he also clearly has it easier than any other star in the league. With two other guys that can carry the load, and shooters all over the place, he can pick and choose how he wants to play on most nights.

Dirk still kicked their ass the first year.

Nobody has ever won a chip surrounded by scrubs who would normally be on the bench for other teams.

Nah but really everybody on that CLE teams was pretty bad cept varejo and Mo.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Calling those Cleveland teams bad is stupid as fuck. Bron didn't singlehandedly win 66 games. Those guys are washed up now but back then they were a good squad. They were defense orientated and selected to compliment Bron's ball dominate game.

This current Miami team is trying to match those CLE teams win record.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Nobody has ever won a chip surrounded by scrubs who would normally be on the bench for other teams.
Nah but really everybody on that CLE teams was pretty bad cept varejo and Mo.

You were saying?

 

[Black Mamba]

Tyson Chandler is a scrub?

 

[BadAss2961]

Nobody has ever won a chip surrounded by scrubs who would normally be on the bench for other teams.

Nah but really everybody on that CLE teams was pretty bad cept varejo and Mo.

You're probably right, but he didn't have put on those disappearing acts. That one series with Boston was embarrassing.

Dwight also crushed his soul in that elimination game in '09.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Tyson Chandler is a scrub?

Hey if says Wade isn't good what does that make Chandler?

 

[BadAss2961]

You know your team is stacked when you have 3 superstars, but still your most dangerous player in crunch time is coming off the bench and is arguably the greatest shooter ever.

 

[Cloudy]

haha, so Kobe is better because he can score 60 points in a game? You honestly think LeBron couldn't score that much against a bad team?

Yes, I believe he can't. He plays in the Leastern conference and has the chance every other night but hasn't done it! Why? Because his game is mostly dunks and rim-runs. A team won't let you get outrageous scoring numbers that way.

We're talking about stats, not anecdotes of single games. Kobe has NEVER been nearly as productive as LeBron or Jordan.

Again, you are confusing production and efficiency. Kobe does not shoot as good a FG% as Bron because he takes tougher shots due to not having a physical advantage every night. His actual production is still comparable to LeBron's although he's what, 7 years older?

Bron is bigger, faster and stronger than any perimeter player in the league. He can get to the rim at will and he does. That is his only advantage over Kobe and we'll see what happens when he gets older. I highly doubt his game will age as well as Kobe's or MJ's

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

The guy who holds the record for most three's ever made is clearly trash. Who would want him on a team?

 

[diehard]

Is Black Mamba really criticizing Lebron for under performing the finals when he had good teammates?

Kobe 2004.. omg.

His actual production is still comparable to LeBron's

no it isnt.

 

[Black Mamba]

Is Black Mamba really criticizing Lebron for under performing the finals when he had good teammates?

Kobe 2004.. omg.

I responded to someone cherry-picking numbers by returning the favor.

Maybe you should follow along before getting involved.

 

[Cloudy]

no it isnt.

Kobe Bryant (34) 27.3 ppg 5.6 rpg 6.0 apg

LeBron James (28) 26.8 ppg 8.0 rpg 7.3 apg

Again, LeBron is much more efficient but Kobe is just as productive

 

[diehard]

I responded to someone cherry-picking numbers by returning the favor.

Maybe you should follow along before getting involved.

You responded to a comment about game 7 in the against the C's.

I brought up the whole series against Detroit.


I seriously don't know what you are talking about half the time.

Kobe Bryant (34) 27.3 ppg 5.6 rpg 6.0 apg

LeBron James (28) 26.8 ppg 8.0 rpg 7.3 apg

Again, LeBron is much more efficient but Kobe is just as productive

So.. higher assists, more rebounds, more steals, more blocks. While playing monumentally better defense (yes i consider that production).

"just as productive".

 

[Ken Masters]

Tyson Chandler is a scrub?

But as a #2 guy with no offensive game? Lol

 

[Cloudy]

So.. higher assists, more rebounds, more steals, more blocks.

"just as productive".

"Their production is comparable" was my original statement. Kobe's production is right there with LeBron and Durant this year.

 

[diehard]

"Their production is comparable" was my original statement. Kobe's production is right there with LeBron and Durant this year.

As long as you consider a guy like Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook, or Wades' production to be comparable to Kobe's.

 

[Byakuya769]

It only took Kobe having to sit for 6-9 months for the LeBron bitch fest to begin anew. It's alright guys, you can dream of the past. We'll enjoy the future.

 

[TheKaeptain]

It only took Kobe having to sit for 6-9 months for the LeBron bitch fest to begin anew. It's alright guys, you can dream of the past. We'll enjoy the future.

Jumping shit to the Durant fan club?

 

[Branduil]

Tyson Chandler is a scrub?

Well technically he was a third-stringer on the Charlotte Bobcats with his career going nowhere before he got traded to the Mavs.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It only took Kobe having to sit for 6-9 months for the LeBron bitch fest to begin anew. It's alright guys, you can dream of the past. We'll enjoy the future.

Lebron is not the future. He's a placeholder.

 

[Byakuya769]

Jumping shit to the Durant fan club?

Bahahahah.

: /

Dude's been trying to find himself all season. Techs... his little "kill/pray for em" motion, he got hurt last summer and will again if they can get that far without Harden.

 

[Mariolee]

DAYUM, Lakers won against the Spurs without Kobe.

 

[Caddywompus]

You were saying?

Funny how successful the Mavs have been since all those "scrubs" left the team.

 

[numble]

Kobe was #6 in social media discussions in China:
http://beijingcream.com/2013/04/kobe-bryants-chinese-basketball-fans-flood-social-media/

Dem NBA circles, man.

 

[MorisUkunRasik]

Kobe was #6 in social media discussions in China:
http://beijingcream.com/2013/04/kobe-bryants-chinese-basketball-fans-flood-social-media/

Dem NBA circles, man.

He can't skate very fast tho

 

[Milchjon]

You were saying?

GOAT