bentanchorbolt
Banned
Public forum, I have an account. Can view and post freely within the confines of the ToS. If you feel my comments are off topic you are free to contact the moderators of this forum and discuss the removal of said comment.
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Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5
Playboi Carti
Member
I'm sure the final version will look even better. And they're not even squeezing the console dry since the game is cross-gen. Their next game boutta melt some faces, Guerrilla doesn't play no games.
I know it says "captured on PS5" but I have my doubts that it will look this good.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Posting in a thread you don't care about isn't a requirement in NeoGAF, so you may see yourself on other threads that meet your interest.
Dodkrake
Banned
I know it says "captured on PS5" but I have my doubts that it will look this good.
Sony has been truthful on the "captured on PS5" mantra, so in theory the PS5 version should look like that?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
It'll look better than this. Some forget spiderman MM. Those are taken by me on my PS5:
Look at the RT reflections on the mask and the windows.
And those are with raytracing, just look at the windows and puddles:
Both are crossgen, and I think Spiderman MM looks even more impressive due to being Native 4K with RT. The graphics on Horizon Forbidden West shown earlier could easily pass as performance mode 60fps as if you 800% zoom in you can notice pixelation that is impossible for the naked eye to spot at 100% 4K, not the case on Spiderman MM due to the temporal injection to higher resolution (6K?) the downsampled at 4K, at least for their anti-aliasing method.
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LiquidRex
Member
Oodle development history change log, PS5 first appearance 7th July 2020.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Oodle development history change log, PS5 first appearance 7th July 2020.
Yup, way after UE5 demo:
That demo could've been crazier.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
No, but there is nothing stopping me from sharing my opinion on the matter, and until there are rules in place that prevent such things, I will continue to share how I feel irrespective of how my "take" is viewed.
I'm a lot older than most people here, I was arguing fervently the way you were back when the PS2 was a thing, when the PSX was a thing. There comes a time when you just stop caring and realize the artists are the true stars of the show. I'm not trying to come off as dismissive of the fact that YOU or others find this interesting; i get it, tech is cool, the minutia at times can be worth looking into and arguing over. I enjoyed reading the facts of these threads, but face palm over some of the back and forth exchanges. In the end, none of it matters to me.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Hey, you have all freedom to share your opinion, just was suggesting that maybe this topic doesn't interest you so you may as well pass to something you may enjoy.
All the best.
Lethal01
Member
Okay, then once again, if you don't care about it, don't talk about it. I don't got to my nieces tea party to tell them how I don't care about dolls. you're being silly.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
If you don’t know that I don’t care, what’s the point of not caring?Hey, you have all freedom to share your opinion, just was suggesting that maybe this topic doesn't interest you so you may as well pass to something you may enjoy.
All the best.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Bo_Hazem
Banned
NOTE: This is the list as by the source, the corrected one is on the OP.
Source:
Kraken compression combined with Oodle Texture is showing great benefits on PS5 so far, even surpassing expectations by turning around the table making it have virtually the biggest storage space.
Game | PS5 | Xbox Series X|S |
| Control Ultimate Edition | 25.7 | 43.6 |
| Hitman 3 | 61.9 | 77.8 |
| Subnautica | 3.8 | 8.3 |
| Crash Bandicoot 4 | 20.0 | 28.0 |
| Tony Hawk | 23.3 | 31.9 |
| Marvel’s Avengers | 74.1 | 116.6 |
| AC Valhalla | 41.8 | 72.5 |
| Watch Dogs Legion | 50.6 | 61.1 |
| Immortals Fenyx Rising | 22.3 | 32.9 |
| Borderlands 3 | 51.1 | 63.8 |
| Dirt 5 | 50.9 | 63.3 |
| Mortal Shell | 4.6 | 8.6 |
| Total | 430.1GB | 608.4GB |
| Space left | 236.9GB | 193.6GB for X (-244.4GB for S) |
Source:
Kraken compression combined with Oodle Texture is showing great benefits on PS5 so far, even surpassing expectations by turning around the table making it have virtually the biggest storage space.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Kamill
Neo Member
Yeah someday you will
bentanchorbolt
Banned
That’s weird because Hitman is 64.8 gigs on my Series X. Anyone fact check this list because there’s one fuck up found with a one second glance.
Dirt 5 is 62.7 on mine (not much smaller than listed) though I apparently have an update pending so I don't know how that changes it. It's in cold storage which is why it's not updated fully.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
That spiderman game looks almost empty compared to the new Horizon game shown above, the level of details is just on a different level.It'll look better than this. Some forget spiderman MM. Those are taken by me on my PS5:
Look at the RT reflections on the mask and the windows.
And those are with raytracing, just look at the windows and puddles:
Both are crossgen, and I think Spiderman MM looks even more impressive due to being Native 4K with RT. The graphics on Horizon Forbidden West shown earlier could easily pass as performance mode 60fps as if you 800% zoom in you can notice pixelation that is impossible for the naked eye to spot at 100% 4K, not the case on Spiderman MM due to the temporal injection to higher resolution (6K?) the downsampled at 4K, at least for their anti-aliasing method.
Mr Moose
Member
He's a banned source, I'll wait for someone more trustworthy, like Joe Miller.
I am kidding about the last part
Bo_Hazem
Banned
He's a banned source, I'll wait for someone more trustworthy, like Joe Miller.
I am kidding about the last part
Yeah for analysis, he is, but this is easy data for someone to check.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Interesting. Subnautica and this game are now games with over 100% file size difference.
Only if there were developer interviews that talked about what they did. It would be so interesting to have that kind of insight into this new console tech.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
This could be just download sizes. After installation sizes might differ (more/less).
Mr Moose
Member
Seems the Watch_Dogs patch is smaller by quite a bit, too.
I'm not sure if it's Kraken related but it's a possibility.
Great Hair
Banned
Bo_Hazem
Banned
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Interneting, but it does not appears that those used those Xbox Authoring tools, because that way we would see Series S at lower size, poor S, hardly can do those 4K textures. Oh...well that could be that the both asset catalogs are within one version or that maybe someone is trying to suggest that S can run 1440p as well as 1800p on X. Which pressing that huge doubt. Again I don't want to repeat myself, but MS will not catch with Sony's solution on this. I am just speculating.
Need to look up for the game.
Need to look up for the game.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yes, we need to know the sizes after installation. If it was just dirty work of combining both then the ones not designed for the console get deleted or it's just PC-like bundle of waste.
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
On Xbox there is zero difference from download size, at least in all of the games I saw so far. Patches are...well they can be whole game again and the install size doesn't rose 1 bit. Not sure how is on PS5, cause I don't having that yet.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
I think some games get smaller after installation if the download probably packed with some app for management that gets deleted afterwards? Not sure. Never been paying closer look at that while downloading games.
rickybooby87
Member
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Basically the whole Xbox bundle is like the whole virtual machine container, which already has taken account to system language, system you are downloading from, etc, so I would not expect these sort of things, it's different type of installation which Playstation have.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
What amazes me is it's slightly bigger than Astro's Playroom! But still Subnautica is at a shocking 3.75GB only!
Hope we hear more from devs about how things are being done, if not NDA'ed as usual.
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yurinka
Member
Yes. But it can be captured using the photo mode, or from a cutscene. If you go to see what people did with photo mode of the first Horizon on PS4 you'd be amazed, so it's pretty likely this are PS5 shots specially after seeing the gameplay trailer.
It's very likely that what we saw in the reveal trailer was running on a PS5 but were in-engine cutscenes (which in many cases means more detailed meshes, textures and different lighting) and then the gameplay trailer seems slightly worse because it's using gameplay assets and lighting, but in the final game you may end the same (or maybe an improved version) both.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
yurinka
Member
Bo_Hazem
Banned
OMG, dat Kraken!
Crazy number indeed! I think it'll be more obvious with smaller studios that won't go the extra mile to pay unnecessary money on licensing the Kraken on other platforms and just use the free, open-source ZLIB.
yurinka
Member
Yes, in PS5 Sony paid the license for all devs. So anyone who publishes a game on PS5 can use it. In other platforms they'd need to pay the license plus uncompress it themselves, while in PS5 the console itself decompresses it.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
You mean the Dev-kit? Yes. But you need to compress it prior to sending it to users/store though, as the console has only a decompressor, not a compressor AFAIK.
yurinka
Member
Yes, the game you download digitally or that is in the disk is compressed. When you make a game for the console the devkit compresses it (the compressor is now part of the software development kit that Sony includes with their devkits, the devs don't need to acquire/pay/do anything other than using the stuff included in the devkit).
The console uses its OS and hardware to decompress when you load the game in a seamless way for the dev and the player.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
It'll be the standard going forward, because it's 3x faster in decompression. ZLIB is really another bottleneck to the system in data streaming.
yurinka
Member
Yes. It means faster loading times, less space needed on disk, faster downloading times and no extra work or cost needed from the dev. So it will become standard on PS5.
Rea
Member
I think Series X decompressor only fine tuned for Zlib compression, if kraken is to used on SX, it has to use CPU for decompression.
Might be wrong.
Rea
Member
Zlib is inferior in everything compare to Kraken, kraken has faster decoding time, better compression ratio. PS5 decompressor is fine tuned for kraken and it's bandwidth can be considered as future proof (massive 22GB/s).
Because Cerny guessed that Kraken combined with Oodle textures can saturate those bandwidth in the future, currently is only around 17gb/s, if I'm not wrong.
Microsoft just use an traditional outdated compression format which is Zlib, and only build a custom decompressor unit, which is fine tuned only for Zlib and their own BCpack. Zlib is also slower in decoding time than kraken, so they don't need a very high speed bandwidth decompressor.
To summarize, Cerny and his team paid more attention to how data is packed and deliver to consumers, and also how to deliver those data at very high bandwidth with lowest latency to the GPU for rendering.
Microsoft priority is to build a server chip for its cloud gaming and uses that chip for building a traditional console without too much investment in RnD department.
Hoddi
Member
Look, I don't know how to break this to you guys but Kraken has been in use since 2017. There have been countless games shipped on Kraken since then and including every Call of Duty and yet it hasn't prevented them from hitting 250GB in size.
Kraken is a fantastic compressor but you're acting like it's Santa Claus.
Kraken is a fantastic compressor but you're acting like it's Santa Claus.
Damn...if only these console makers did something to help the compression, decompression.......oh well.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
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