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[Bigboss242]

Well shouldn't of left the post public there are consequences to your actions especially online.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

That I should feel guilty about it just like I have to admit that I'm a racist because I was born into a system that treats people differently based on their heritage.

The fact that you think you have to feel guilty means something's not registering.

I don't feel guilty about being a cis-man or straight but I know that I have the capacity to be sexist, transphobic or homophobic or add to the problem by being ignorant of those issues.

That's all it is. Is recognizing the capacity for it and then doing whatever is in my power to avert that. By calling shit out, getting educated and voting against those that harm my brothers and sisters. No one is asking you to feel guilty, but to be Aware.

 

[Jenov]

Her blanket statements are inflammatory and does a disservice to her message because it's widely accepted that inheritance of sin (and collective punishment) is a shitty practice and doesn't improve things. Of course we need to acknowledge and address the problems perpetuated by systemic racism and slavery today, but collective blame isn't the way to go about it. I can understand the angry sentiment and why she wrote it, but she wasn't tactful in her delivery and lost her job for it.

 

[Moze]

White poor people are better off then black etc poor people due to white privilege. So yes all white people do benefit from being white, but in different degrees. They may both be poor, but a poor white person will be treated far fairer then a poor minority.

As I have shown you, that is not always the case. Poor white people do far worse in education than poor black people. Poor black people are three times more likely to reach university than poor white people. There is no way to statistically track anything past school because poor black and poor white people are not differentiated from the majority in their race. There is no way for us to tell in what areas poor white people do better than poor black people or the other way around.

I am not here to tell you white privilege doesn't exist. It absolutely does exist. But I do not know how anyone can feel comfortable looking at the poor whites of the country and saying they benefit from white privilege. In what way do they benefit from it? What is a poor white person? They are 'chavs', a socially acceptable slur towards poor white people. A term associated with crime, benefit fraud, laziness, racism, unemployment, stupidity, incest, and whatever else. That's what poor white people are associated with and the narrative the media carries.

But those numbers show the benefit of white privilege in effect. Simply being white is an artificially crafted barrier to differentiate between poor white families and PoC. Privilege doesn't mean 'well-off' here, it means 'PoC and minorities will still be looked down upon.'

That's how fucked up it is.

There are stereotypes and issues exclusively associated with poor white families. This is where the term 'chav' comes from. This is how it is different from the US. The media in the UK targets poor white families and vilifies them. The poor white people often get the blame for alot of issues that go on. The chavs did Brexit, the chavs voted for Farage, the chavs caused racism.

 

[Renegade Frost]

Her blanket statements are inflammatory and does a disservice to her message because it's widely accepted that inheritance of sin (and collective punishment) is a shitty practice and doesn't improve things. Of course we need to acknowledge and address the problems perpetuated by systemic racism and slavery today, but collective blame isn't the way to go about it. I can understand the angry sentiment and why she wrote it, but she wasn't tactful in her delivery and lost her job for it.

This has little to do with inheritance and a LOT more to do with how society is structured and informs your perception of self.

That said I know exactly how she feels, I've made similar comments here before, because people like to insist that hatred of black people is somehow exclusive to the US when European Colonial history reaches far wide.

Every culture has a slur word for dark skinned or black people. Every single one of them, that didnt just happen on accident. It's a direct rebellion against their ancestors.

They pay for their disrespect every day with the state of the world. Such transgression against our forefathers leave scars on all of our collective souls.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

This has little to do with inheritance and a LOT more to do with how society is structured and informs your perception of self.

That said I know exactly how she feels, I've made similar comments here before, because people like to insist that hatred of black people is somehow exclusive to the US when European Colonial history reaches far wide.

Every culture has a slur word for dark skinned or black people. Every single one of them, that didnt just happen on accident. It's a direct rebellion against their ancestors.

They pay for their disrespect every day with the state of the world. Such transgression against our forefathers leave scars on all of our collective souls.

Sums it up.

 

[TumblingHippo]

Threads like these must be so frustrating/infuriating for many POC and other minorities. A person earnestly speaks up or vents frustration and then a waterfall of pages of "but what about the plight of white people!" follows.

Page after page of #NotAllWhitePeople or "well other groups can be just as bad" when years of history and experiences prove that POC will always have it worse.

You take a knee, white people get mad. You march in the streets or block traffic and white people get mad. You say something and white people get mad. You say nothing, or stay out of it, and white people get mad. You get blocked systematically from voting, and white people get mad at your for not voting.

And it's just the fervor at which they get mad. We'd rather get so angry and worked up over the idea of white people being called racist rather than go "Huh I wonder why there's this perception of why white people or so racist."

Do I really have to add a section at the end that says "Oh I didn't mean ALL white people" or do we get so blinded by rage we can't use critical thinking here?

 

[Renegade Frost]

As I have shown you, that is not always the case. Poor white people do far worse in education than poor black people. Poor black people are three times more likely to reach university than poor white people. There is no way to statistically track anything past school because poor black and poor white people are not differentiated from the majority in their race. There is no way for us to tell in what areas poor white people do better than poor black people or the other way around.

I am not here to tell you white privilege doesn't exist. It absolutely does exist. But I do not know how anyone can feel comfortable looking at the poor whites of the country and saying they benefit from white privilege. In what way do they benefit from it? What is a poor white person? They are 'chavs', a socially acceptable slur towards poor white people. A term associated with crime, benefit fraud, laziness, racism, unemployment, stupidity, incest, and whatever else. That's what poor white people are associated with and the narrative the media carries.



There are stereotypes and issues exclusively associated with poor white families. This is where the term 'chav' comes from. This is how it is different from the US. The media in the UK targets poor white families and vilifies them. The poor white people often get the blame for alot of issues that go on. The chavs did Brexit, the chavs voted for Farage, the chavs caused racism.

In what world are you living in?

Man stereotypes aren't even on the TIP of the iceberg when it comes to getting to the heart of what racisms really is. Everyone gets stereotyped, hell at my university the students made up an acronym for the wealthy foreign kids who like to party and smoke all over the campus lol. Sterotypes are just the basis of being treated in a certain fashion, but this is not about how people are treated, this is about how societal structures and attitudes affect the agency of men and women alike. Those who share a namesake to whatever the dominant structure has harbored resentment and disapproval for.

This is always the case, especially when it comes to women.

A poor white women is always better off than a poor black women.
That poor white women will always vote to protect her own fragile whiteness.
Same with the not poor white women. 54 percent of white women voted for Donald Trump. Along all economic lines. Mostly people who consider themselves middle class. Why do you think? Because the idea of race is a POWERFUL drug that has infected society all up and down. The white monolith is a threat to your humanity and mine. Embrace your culture, reject the notion of the white and black spectrum. It is a curse on your own mind and the sooner we walk back the actions of colonialism the sooner we'll be better off.

I suggest everyone read this think piece for an American lady who got exposed to the writings of James Baldwin and fundamentally transformed her own perception of the ignorance she faced within herself. It takes a true sense of self awareness for us to try and circumvent our own environmental castles. It's a phenomenal read and I think you all should use it as a stepping stone to really analyzing your own personal gaps in awareness.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/08/unlearning-the-myth-of-american-innocence

 

[Stead Fast]

There are stereotypes and issues exclusively associated with poor white families. This is where the term 'chav' comes from. This is how it is different from the US. The media in the UK targets poor white families and vilifies them. The poor white people often get the blame for alot of issues that go on. The chavs did Brexit, the chavs voted for Farage, the chavs caused racism.

Indeed, but that is another construct by those of higher stature to separate themselves and the power they have over an overwhelming mass, going on generations. The chavs will be vilified so often by anyone of a higher social standing, but said chavs in turn at least aren't black. Casual accepted racism is still rife in the UK, and heavy in poorer areas. The whole point of 'white privilege' in this part of society is to artificially give these poorer people, who'd as quickly be trashed by upper classes, a chance to kick someone deemed 'lower' than them. And they do, routinely. Because they feel slightly higher than others. They feel they have the privilege to because that person is an 'other'.

In truth there is nothing truly different standing between people (particularly in the UK) of any creed, colour or religion to recognise that a lot of our issues lie further up the social and political spectrum, but the racial divide is there, and is constructed, monitored and egged on by anyone above to keep people divided; with the insidious recruitment of white people over PoC still rife, the example you gave yourself that black people are three times more likely to reach university (that is an achievement in spite of white privilege, it is by no means a lack of it - and said students are routinely poised to get jobs of a lower salary than a white student), and the growing sense of xenophobia spreading throughout England specifically, you'll find traces of provocation from the Right of our society, because it keeps the poor busy, and those of colour as low as possible.

We aren't the US (at least not yet), but we are operating under the same system.

 

[MisterShine]

..
Page after page of #NotAllWhitePeople or "well other groups can be just as bad" when years of history and experiences prove that POC will always have it worse.

When your statement includes "yes ALL white people", then you're really just teeing up every hit there. After this last election cycle didn't we learn to keep our aspersions on giant groups of people vague?

 

[Renegade Frost]

When your statement includes "yes ALL white people", then you're really just teeing up every hit there. After this last election cycle didn't we learn to keep our aspersions on giant groups of people vague?

Well anyone you're not allowed to criticize is who's in power lol

Threads like these must be so frustrating/infuriating for many POC and other minorities. A person earnestly speaks up or vents frustration and then a waterfall of pages of "but what about the plight of white people!" follows.

Page after page of #NotAllWhitePeople or "well other groups can be just as bad" when years of history and experiences prove that POC will always have it worse.

You take a knee, white people get mad. You march in the streets or block traffic and white people get mad. You say something and white people get mad. You say nothing, or stay out of it, and white people get mad. You get blocked systematically from voting, and white people get mad at your for not voting.

And it's just the fervor at which they get mad. We'd rather get so angry and worked up over the idea of white people being called racist rather than go "Huh I wonder why there's this perception of why white people or so racist."

Do I really have to add a section at the end that says "Oh I didn't mean ALL white people" or do we get so blinded by rage we can't use critical thinking here?

You know what the worst of it is?

We're never allowed to be angry, to deal with the emotions in a healthy manner.

We get gaslighted left and right because of it.

It eats us up inside.

So we just laugh at it all. What else can you do when it's all just one big joke?

I know that alot of caucasian people fear retaliations at the hands of black people. But we've had to become better humans just to COPE with the shit we've been put through.

To me, that has always been the silver lining of it all. It's always good to get in touch with our own humanity and explore it. For all it has to offer.

Obama's a better man than me anyhow. I dont know how he dealt with 8 years of total disrespect with the grace and finesse of a praying mantis doing a little dance.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Threads like these must be so frustrating/infuriating for many POC and other minorities. A person earnestly speaks up or vents frustration and then a waterfall of pages of "but what about the plight of white people!" follows.

Page after page of #NotAllWhitePeople or "well other groups can be just as bad" when years of history and experiences prove that POC will always have it worse.

You take a knee, white people get mad. You march in the streets or block traffic and white people get mad. You say something and white people get mad. You say nothing, or stay out of it, and white people get mad. You get blocked systematically from voting, and white people get mad at your for not voting.

And it's just the fervor at which they get mad. We'd rather get so angry and worked up over the idea of white people being called racist rather than go "Huh I wonder why there's this perception of why white people or so racist."

Do I really have to add a section at the end that says "Oh I didn't mean ALL white people" or do we get so blinded by rage we can't use critical thinking here?

I'm considered a white person and the only thing that get's me mad is being called a racist for no fucking reason whatsoever. I know why white people are considred racist, but I'm sorry to tell you I'm not. You don't know jack shit about me, not what I do to help minorities or other political viewpoints I have, yet I must be racist because of my skin color. Fuck that noise. Me speaking about this doesn't mean I don't acknowledge issues PoC have whatsoever (which are worse than me being called a racist, obviously, but that. doesn't. make. it. ok.)

And i saw absolutely noone in here saying "well, other groups are just as bad." And if someone said that, it's that persons awful view and not that of white people as an entity, and I would confront that person just like you would.
If she says "ALL white people" I have to expect she means exactly that, and the people in this thread agreeing with her as well.

Well anyone you're not allowed to criticize is who's in power lol



You know what the worst of it is?

We're never allowed to be angry, to deal with the emotions in a healthy manner.

We get gaslighted left and right because of it.

It eats us up inside.

So we just laugh at it all. What else can you do when it's all just one big joke?

I know that alot of caucasian people fear retaliations at the hands of black people. But we've had to become better humans just to COPE with the shit we've been put through.

To me, that has always been the silver lining of it all. It's always good to get in touch with our own humanity and explore it. For all it has to offer.

Obama's a better man than me anyhow. I dont know how he dealt with 8 years of total disrespect with the grace and finesse of a praying mantis doing a little dance.

You as well. If you want to vent by saying all white people are racists then good on you, have fun with that. Don't get upset at people to speak up then though, and don't try to act like they shouldn't. "retaliation of black people", wow. Maybe consider who was killed by a Nazi in the latest incident and what skin color she had while you're in here arguing in favour of racist BS like "ALL white people are racist". This shit is ridiculous.

 

[Neith]

Well, white people are definitely responsible for the most destructive modern scientific endeavors related to war for the most part. The person is not wrong there.

The parts about racism definitely should have been kept in the can, and they do verge on racism by their own words as well if you misconstrue what she is saying in any way. And we all know this will be done, and overreactions will happen.

Probably should have kept this in the can a bit when you get a top gig though. You know it isn't going to go down well with a fame career to get into politics atm. It shouldn't be like that but it is, and people need to take that precaution.

 

[Dr.Phibes]

The fact that you think you have to feel guilty means something's not registering.

I don't feel guilty about being a cis-man or straight but I know that I have the capacity to be sexist, transphobic or homophobic or add to the problem by being ignorant of those issues.

That's all it is. Is recognizing the capacity for it and then doing whatever is in my power to avert that. By calling shit out, getting educated and voting against those that harm my brothers and sisters. No one is asking you to feel guilty, but to be Aware.

That's the thing. I don't feel guilty about being German but I call out any form of nazism/facism wherever I see it because I personally think that it's my historical responsibility to prevent something as horrible as WW2 from happening again.

I just don't like people trying to make feel guilty about it.

 

[Renegade Frost]

I just want to preface this by saying, WE ARE NOT HERE TO MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY.

I'm considered a white person and the only thing that get's me mad is being called a racist for no fucking reason whatsoever. I know why white people are considred racist, but I'm sorry to tell you I'm not. You don't know jack shit about me, not what I do to help minorities or other political viewpoints I have, yet I must be racist because of my skin color. Fuck that noise. Me speaking about this doesn't mean I don't acknowledge issues PoC have whatsoever (which are worse than me being called a racist, obviously, but that. doesn't. make. it. ok.)

And i saw absolutely noone in here saying "well, other groups are just as bad." And if someone said that, it's that persons awful view and no that of white people as an entity.
If she says "ALL white people" I have to expect she means exactly that, and the people in this thread agreeing with her as well.



You as well. If you want to vent by saying all white people are racists then good on you, have fun with that. Don't get upset at people to speak up then though, and don't try to act like they shouldn't.

I'm not here to vent. I'm taking my time to educate you all. It's important, but maybe you'd rather hear it from a white person. Or not at all.

Please, read the article I linked earlier. As a German you should know the consequences of our history.

Half my family comes from there, we know full well the consequences of what fighting against white supremacy and the Nazi's look like.

(FYI I was punished the last time I even tried venting LOL)

The second link you posted is pretty damning, the other is Sanders talking about it , going all economic anxiety about it (eugh) and the third one was from 2016. Obviously even then voting for him was deplorable but at least he wasn't in full fascist mode then.

Interesting at the bolded, because I'm not fine with empathising with them. I'm from Germany, since I was 7 years old I learned about where it leads to if you are in any form OK with the fuckery Trump is going with, or OK with the people who are in favour of or just don't care about it.

I care about equality both in concept and the people who are hurt (which also means I care about myself, just to be clear here.) That's why I react so strongly to people who call me a racist because of my skin color.
Sadly there are quite a few in this thread who have no problem doing so. I realize you didn't and that im derailing my answer to you here so let's just leave it at that.

The only advice I have for you is to not take it personally, and just do your best when it comes to supporting those you consider

Because your peers arent as genuine as you might be. They have vested interests otherwise.

You as well. If you want to vent by saying all white people are racists then good on you, have fun with that. Don't get upset at people to speak up then though, and don't try to act like they shouldn't. "retaliation of black people", wow. Maybe consider who was killed by a Nazi in the latest incident and what skin color she had while you're in here arguing in favour of racist BS like "ALL white people are racist". This shit is ridiculous.

There is an individual in this thread who literally said they were scared of black retaliation.

It's a very real fear. Maybe you dont get it, but a lot of Americans still havent dealt with slavery in a healthy manner lol.

Also as a german you can REJECT your "whiteness" and embrace your cultural heritage.

Its what my grandfather did. Before he was killed for rebelling against the Nazi's.

3. Don't say racist shit. (Yes, also against white people.)

White people literally think its racist to call them racist..

It's almost like calling someone the n-word to them lol

While what your family does is great, that is a personal choice you make, and are apparently in the position to make. What do you expect a Greek, Italian, Swede, etc, on minimum wage do? As long as you are not racist yourself, that is fine. If you want to actively do more, great, but don't say those people that don't or can't are somehow racist themselves. Pushing the sin of the father on a personal level throughout history makes everyone complicit in terrible things. It is useless. That is not even getting into that most people don't know what their ancestors were up to or where they lived anyway, so you are inheriting an assumed sin.

They can open their mouths and check their peers. They can vote for better policy that helps everybody.

That is all any of us expect out of anyone else.

Hah. As someone of mixed Eastern European descent (including Russian), I can't say I've particularly enjoyed or benefited from the wave of generalized derogatory statements about Russians and Eastern Europeans -- especially in the past few years. But as soon as you say something about it you must be complicit in Putin's buffoonery.

White is also not just white. You have Germanic people, Slavs, etc. And different nationalities have had different experiences with racism too. To pile it all together haphazardly and play the blame game is to lose all nuance in what should be a constructive movement to unify people. I also don't think that being of a certain background/race/etc gives anyone carte blanche at making inherently racist statements--a racial privilege to be racist, ironic no?

Discrimination has many different flavors, of which racism is only one.

It's really not ironic. It's called awareness. Some people just really like to call it out on y'all. Its understandable that people would be defensive when they take everything darker skinned people do as a threat.

I'll tell you what though, the idea of whiteness was created by white people, for white people. Its a vehicle you all use to maintain a certain state of power. But its a false one. If you want to embrace your culture that is fine, but you have to reject the divide that has created this fog of war.

And not be a sucker. because we know how narrow the doctrine of hate is . After its done with all the "Others" it'll turn on those closest to you.

Thats what this video is about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk

What you are saying is that you can be racist by association. That is really reaching there. Just because someone lives somewhere, does not mean he is racist because of that. This person has zero influence over history. So yes, it is nice if people acknowledge if they have a privileged position in society and support causes that fix that, for example voting a certain way. But this stance that you can be seen as racist just for enjoying a live in Western Europe, the US, etc, is going a bit far.

Cool that you do volunteer work and activism, but it is not reasonable to suggest other people should do the same as you all the time. But if your line is: at least vote. Then I agree that is reasonable.


The whole world has the same capitalistic culture, including South America, Africa and Asia. They are part of modern society. Are they then also racist because they are part of that system?

Yes. Its a consequence of colonialism.Jamaica is still dealing with a homicide crisis, South Africa is racist as hell, most Asian countries are extremely xenophobic, Indians regularly beat the crap out of African immigrants, Gandhi thought Africans were subhuman and hated being compared to them because they share shades of a skin tone. Israeli citizens are the most ironic of the negro hating lot too considering their history of persecution and their never ending conflict with Palestine.

I guess Cuba's the only one who got out while they could. But its not like they dont have their own problems anyway.

 

[Condom]

I was ready to lash out on the liberal 'just stop doing bad thing 'X' people #love' without a real analysis on the material/systemic fundement but her follow up post is legit good.

She knows what she is talking about.

Edit: Shared her post, a labour supporter too apparently. Followed her. Screw L'Oreal.

 

[Cyanity]

Man, fuck L'Oreal. What an opportunistic, money grubbing group of bastards.

 

[Neith]

L'Oreal is just afraid of the brand losing power and money, and that will always be what they are about. Certain little things in this age can damage a corporation, so they are being douchebags to keep their status in case anything would go wrong with the new shit. They are a corporation.

Her follow up post is very good. I'm not quite sure why she was thrown out so quickly. You would think maybe a warning would be in order.

 

[metalslimer]

Her follow up post is nothing but truth. Sorry if it makes white people uncomfortable which it seems like all discussions about the systemic racism around the world does. Every time someone discusses the white supremacy the western world is built on your first thought is to scream about how that's not your fault or doesn't apply to you

 

[Lime]

Her follow up post is nothing but truth. Sorry if it makes white people uncomfortable which it seems like all discussions about the systemic racism around the world does. Every time someone discusses the white supremacy the western world is built on your first thought is to scream about how that's not your fault or doesn't apply to you

white fragility

 

[deli2000]

That's the thing. I don't feel guilty about being German but I call out any form of nazism/facism wherever I see it because I personally think that it's my historical responsibility to prevent something as horrible as WW2 from happening again.

I just don't like people trying to make feel guilty about it.

No one is trying to guilt trip you dude, that's just classic projection tactics used to suppress minority voices by labelling them as inherently antagonistic. Talking about privilege and white supremacy isn't inherently inflammatory, and it needs to be talked about. Not everything is about you specifically.

 

[Yeoman]

Well, white people are definitely responsible for the most destructive modern scientific endeavors related to war for the most part. The person is not wrong there.

I'll stop you there.

 

[Renegade Frost]

As a white person, the white ppl who feel offended by hyperbolic (but not THAT hyperbolic) statements sourced from justified frustration like this need to get over themselves



But but but it was just for the lolz man

This guy, you get it!

You can come to the cookout any time.

A racist gets fired for saying racist things on social media, news at 11.

You'd probably walk out of a showing of One Drop of Love wouldnt you?

I'll stop you there.

That's still not actually an accurate statement

Go watch Hidden figures.



Women always getting edited out the history books man. smh.

 

[sjboi]

A racist gets fired for saying racist things on social media, news at 11.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I just want to preface this by saying, WE ARE NOT HERE TO MAKE YOU FEEL GUILTY.


I'm not here to vent. I'm taking my time to educate you all. It's important, but maybe you'd rather hear it from a white person. Or not at all.

Please, read the article I linked earlier. As a German you should know the consequences of our history.

Half my family comes from there, we know full well the consequences of what fighting against white supremacy and the Nazi's look like.

(FYI I was punished the last time I even tried venting LOL)

The thing is you really don't have to educate me on anything, that's the point. I experienced racism myself, due to my actual heritage and my name, some really awful shit actually. so I don't see what's there to teach me. That condescending tone is what riles many people up when it comes to these discussions.
I'll read the article later, thanks for that.

The only advice I have for you is to not take it personally, and just do your best when it comes to supporting those you consider

Because your peers arent as genuine as you might be. They have vested interests otherwise.

There's no other choice but to take it personally. I'm one of these "white people" that are supposed to be racist, so obviously I'm going to take that shit personally. I had multiple "discussions" with people in here that just tried to render everything i said invalid simply by bringing up my skin color.
No worries, I'm supporting people as good as I can, despite me needing some support as well.

White people literally think its racist to call them racist..

It's almost like calling someone the n-word to them lol

Calling an entire race racist is...racist. Yes, no matter what race you call it. And no, at least in my case it's not like getting called the n-word, it's just racist to do it, which is not OK. I'm being lumped in together with Trump supporters and other assholes because I'm white while doing the best I can to make things better. Shit is ridiculous.

They can open their mouths and check their peers. They can vote for better policy that helps everybody.

That is all any of us expect out of anyone else.

I actually do more than that, and yet more often than not, even in this very thread I'm met with blatant racism, condescension and other BS. And yeah, me bringing this up is reason enough for other people to feel like they have to call me out on my privilege and my "need to feel comforted by PoC." or "fragile" and other shit. That's where the disucssion always derails, and I'm kinda tired of it tbh.

Her follow up post is nothing but truth. Sorry if it makes white people uncomfortable which it seems like all discussions about the systemic racism around the world does. Every time someone discusses the white supremacy the western world is built on your first thought is to scream about how that's not your fault or doesn't apply to you

white fragility

I still don't get how not being OK with getting called a racist or complicit with racism is being fragile. Please elaborate. I'm sure Heather Heyer was fragile as well. Not.

 

[Lime]

A racist gets fired for saying racist things on social media, news at 11.

calling out racism in white supremacy is the real racism!

 

[EMT0]

calling out racism in white supremacy is the real racism!

Her original statement was pretty damn racist. Her followup was fantastic, but she still said something dumb af originally. Racial violence of ALL white people? Yes, ALL white people? Come the fuck on. Or are we still on that 'minorities can't be racist' shit. Because can confirm, racism between minorities is a thing. Racism towards white people is a thing.

 

[pizzaparty]

When your statement includes "yes ALL white people", then you're really just teeing up every hit there. After this last election cycle didn't we learn to keep our aspersions on giant groups of people vague?

President said Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers on the campaign trail. You only have to be vague when your aspersions are directed towards white people.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

President said Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers on the campaign trail. You only have to be vague when your aspersions are directed towards white people.

Ah, so having to be vague about your racism is the problem. I also always wish I could be as bold as Trump with my racism. That's the real issue here!

 

[Hubbl3]

Well, white people are definitely responsible for the most destructive modern scientific endeavors related to war for the most part. The person is not wrong there.

I'll stop you there.

Ah, yes, this old gem. Calling out reverse-racism with casual racism.

Let's ignore the fact that western societies had a history of excluding non-white people from pursuing and contributing to scientific endeavors and use that exclusion to say that only white people are capable of such feats.

What a fucking trash thread.

 

[JCHandsom]

Her original statement was pretty damn racist. Her followup was fantastic, but she still said something dumb af originally. Racial violence of ALL white people? Yes, ALL white people? Come the fuck on. Or are we still on that 'minorities can't be racist' shit. Because can confirm, racism between minorities is a thing. Racism towards white people is a thing.

Racism=Prejudice+Power

A minority member can be bigoted/prejudiced against any other group, including themselves or even the majority group, but Racism as I understand it requires institutional power that allows, encourages, or empowers the majority to be prejudiced or bigoted towards a minority group.

 

[Moze]

Indeed, but that is another construct by those of higher stature to separate themselves and the power they have over an overwhelming mass, going on generations. The chavs will be vilified so often by anyone of a higher social standing, but said chavs in turn at least aren't black. Casual accepted racism is still rife in the UK, and heavy in poorer areas. The whole point of 'white privilege' in this part of society is to artificially give these poorer people, who'd as quickly be trashed by upper classes, a chance to kick someone deemed 'lower' than them. And they do, routinely. Because they feel slightly higher than others. They feel they have the privilege to because that person is an 'other'.

In truth there is nothing truly different standing between people (particularly in the UK) of any creed, colour or religion to recognise that a lot of our issues lie further up the social and political spectrum, but the racial divide is there, and is constructed, monitored and egged on by anyone above to keep people divided; with the insidious recruitment of white people over PoC still rife, the example you gave yourself that black people are three times more likely to reach university (that is an achievement in spite of white privilege, it is by no means a lack of it - and said students are routinely poised to get jobs of a lower salary than a white student), and the growing sense of xenophobia spreading throughout England specifically, you'll find traces of provocation from the Right of our society, because it keeps the poor busy, and those of colour as low as possible.

We aren't the US (at least not yet), but we are operating under the same system.

Whilst poor whites are taught racism and are encouraged to attack other groups, I disagree it is a product of white privilege. It's mostly about passing the blame. The whites want to pass the blame on to the poor whites for racism. They want the poor whites to be associated with racism instead of the people who are preventing black people from gaining employment. They want people to associate racism with uneducated people so the well spoken, well off people aren't associated with such lowbrow idiocy whilst they prevent black people from gaining employment. And it works. Poor white people are blamed for Brexit. Poor white people are blamed for the Tories and UKIP. Poor white people are blamed for many issues like this. Your point is valid on some level though. People do feel better about themselves if they have somebody to attack and blame for their issues. Of course it is used by the media to benefit their agenda. It's about anti immigrant sentiment. It's about blaming the Eastern Europeans for taking our council houses, our benefits and our NHS etc. This is a thing among all races, though. Black people are often taught the exact same thing by the white media. They will then attack the Muslims or the Polish. Never seen a black person attack a white British person in this way though.

To be clear, I am not denying white privilege. White privilege is a thing in the UK. The gap between the average white man in the UK and the average black man is pretty large. Unemployment and prison rates/arrest rates are worse in general in the black community. And by quite a margin. Just that including poor or 'underclass whites, polish or traveller communities in this is really trivialising the issues those communities face. The original point was that white privilege and racial tension in the UK is not the same as in the US. We seem to agree on that whether or not we agree on whether certain groups are outcasts from the overall white majority. As far as the university thing, with poor black people being three times as likely to attend university as poor white people, it's hard to tell the cause. Parenting and funding being lower in poor white areas are two issues. And whilst black people out of university do find it harder to get employment than white people out of university, that is not a good example of the issues we are talking about because most people in university aren't from poor backgrounds. We are comparing poor white to poor black. Poor whites are not reaching university and poor black people are reaching in it pretty bad numbers. There is no way to track people from poor backgrounds after university. Everything is based on the FSM programme.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Racism=Prejudice+Power

A minority member can be bigoted/prejudiced against any other group, including themselves or even the majority group, but Racism as I understand it requires institutional power that allows, encourages, or empowers the majority to be prejudiced or bigoted towards a minority group.

That's not racism,that's as you already noticed institutionalized racism. Casual Racism exists. You can be racist towards any group, yes even when you're not white.
If for example some black guy calls a hispanic a racial slur or vice versa then that's blatant racism. No institution involved.

 

[MisterShine]

President said Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers on the campaign trail. You only have to be vague when your aspersions are directed towards white people.

1. He weaseled out of that with the "...some I assume are good people" right afterwards. Always use weasel words.

2. There was an entire news cycle following that of "the fuck did he just say?"

3. I was referring to Clinton and her basket of deplorables. She made the mistake of saying "half". Don't put a number or percent on it, keep that shit vague people!

 

[Beefy]

As I have shown you, that is not always the case. Poor white people do far worse in education than poor black people. Poor black people are three times more likely to reach university than poor white people. There is no way to statistically track anything past school because poor black and poor white people are not differentiated from the majority in their race. There is no way for us to tell in what areas poor white people do better than poor black people or the other way around.

I am not here to tell you white privilege doesn't exist. It absolutely does exist. But I do not know how anyone can feel comfortable looking at the poor whites of the country and saying they benefit from white privilege. In what way do they benefit from it? What is a poor white person? They are 'chavs', a socially acceptable slur towards poor white people. A term associated with crime, benefit fraud, laziness, racism, unemployment, stupidity, incest, and whatever else. That's what poor white people are associated with and the narrative the media carries.



There are stereotypes and issues exclusively associated with poor white families. This is where the term 'chav' comes from. This is how it is different from the US. The media in the UK targets poor white families and vilifies them. The poor white people often get the blame for alot of issues that go on. The chavs did Brexit, the chavs voted for Farage, the chavs caused racism.

https://www.jrf.org.uk/data/poverty-rate-ethnicity

Also:

And:

I can go on and on. There are far more minorities that are poor, there is a decreasing of white people being as poor as minorities. Why is this? It is simply,, white privilege is helping them. It may not be a huge difference, but it is a difference due to them being white. Far more minorities are grouped together in poor as fuck areas then poor white people. You may not see it, but it is there.

 

[Servbot24]

no lies detected though

All white people are born into a racist system that works in their favor perhaps, but saying that all white people are individually racist is just a bit silly imo.

 

[metalslimer]

Who the fuck brought up Heather heyer? Is that supposed to be some damn Trump card for white people not acknowledge white supremacy?

 

[Infinite]

That's not racism,that's as you already noticed institutionalized racism. Casual Racism exists. You can be racist towards any group, yes even when you're not white.
If for example some black guy calls a hispanic a racial slur or vice versa then that's blatant racism. No institution involved.

How can we have a discussion and people can't even agree and the meaning of the terms central to the discussion? This seems like a massive fruitless endeavor tbh

 

[Wamb0wneD]

How can we have a discussion and people can't even agree and the meaning of the terms central to the discussion? This seems like a massive fruitless endeavor tbh

You're right on that i guess. I think my example is pretty clear though and I really wonder how someone would argue against that. To say only white people can be racist is kinda ridiculous. Obviously white racism did the most harm over the history of mankind but to say other racism isn't even possible per definition is...yeah...

 

[Yeoman]

Ah, yes, this old gem. Calling out reverse-racism with casual racism.

Let's ignore the fact that western societies had a history of excluding non-white people from pursuing and contributing to scientific endeavors and use that exclusion to say that only white people are capable of such feats.

What a fucking trash thread.

Who said only white people were capable of it?

However you can't have your cake and eat it.
You can't claim that "White people" are responsible for all of the destructive technology in the modern world without also acknowledging that they are also equally responsible for most modern technologies full stop.

I agree: making sweeping statements and generalisations can lead to some ugly conclusions.

 

[JCHandsom]

That's not racism,that's as you already noticed institutionalized racism. Casual Racism exists. You can be racist towards any group, yes even when you're not white.
If for example some black guy calls a hispanic a racial slur or vice versa then that's blatant racism. No institution involved.

I view racism as something distinct from general prejudice/bigotry because I view white-on-minority problems as a much bigger issue that needs addressing than minority-on-minority problems. I have the same views with regards to "discrimination on the basis of X" in that I don't think discrimination is wrong in and of itself, it depends on who is being discriminated against and who is doing the discrimination.

I view it as an issue of punching up vs. punching down because it's more helpful in the long run. Saying "All racism/prejudice/discrimination is equally wrong" works against that, because we end up in reverse racism disagreements like this.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

I view racism as something distinct from general prejudice/bigotry because I view white-on-minority problems as a much bigger issue that needs addressing than minority-on-minority problems. I have the same views with regards to "discrimination on the basis of X" in that I don't think discrimination is wrong in and of itself, it depends on who is being discriminated against and who is doing the discrimination.

Basically I view it as an issue of punching up vs. punching down because it's more helpful in the long run to focus on the bigger issue.

You can say that you view racism that comes from white people as the bigger issue and I'd agree with you on that, but that doesn't mean you can't call that minority-on-minority prejudice/bigotry racism as well. Also if you want people to focus on the bigger issue maybe these minoity-on-minority issues are in the way of that as well.

That bolded part though, I'm kinda speechless. I'm done here i guess.

 

[JCHandsom]

You can say that you view racism that comes from white people as the bigger issue and I'd agree with you on that, but that doesn't mean you can't call that minority-on-minority prejudice/bigotry racism as well. Also if you want people to focus on the bigger issue maybe these minoity-on-minority issues are in the way of that as well.

It's really just a semantics difference; I feel calling minority-on-minority prejudice racism lumps it in with all other kinds of racism, which in turn makes it harder to tackle the larger issues by bogging it down in reverse racism accusations.

That bolded part though, I'm kinda speechless. I'm done here i guess.

So not a fan of affirmative action I guess?

 

[Ottaro]

That's not racism,that's as you already noticed institutionalized racism. Casual Racism exists. You can be racist towards any group, yes even when you're not white.
If for example some black guy calls a hispanic a racial slur or vice versa then that's blatant racism. No institution involved.

The word for what you are describing is prejudice.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

So not a fan of affirmative action I guess?

No since I experienced racism because of my turkish heritage and racism because of my white skin color, and I never cared for which one was worse than the other, or which one of these assholes beating me into a hospital or worse was more in the right than the other.

I'm a fan of punching Nazis in the face though.

The word for what you are describing is prejudice.

Prejudice based on racist beliefs/views. Yeah.

Who the fuck brought up Heather heyer? Is that supposed to be some damn Trump card for white people not acknowledge white supremacy?

Evilore did. Maybe write a PM to him and tell him how his white, Trump supporting ass is so, so fragile.
Hint: Absolutely nobody in here doesn't acknowledge fucking white supremacy being a thing.

 

[daxy]

The word for what you are describing is prejudice.

Could you elaborate? Perhaps with an example?

 

[Ravensmash]

The word for what you are describing is prejudice.

What? No its not.

 

[JCHandsom]

Here's an excerpt from Lawrence Blum's "Racial and other Asymmetries: A Problem for the Protected Categories Framework for Anti-discrimination Thought" that better states what I was getting at.

The aspect of the protected category approach with which I am particularly concerned is the implied symmetry in the way it and its moral valence are conceptualized. The protected categories approach implies the wrongfulness of discrimination is best expressed by "discrimination on the basis of X", where X is a protected category. For example, discrimination based on sex encompasses discrimination against both men and women. Discrimination based on race includes discrimination against Asians, blacks, whites, or any other race. Discrimination based on religion takes the form of discrimination against anyone of any religion...

What I want to claim is that the protected categories generally involve significant moral asymmetries. That is, the subgroup identity both of the agent and the target do generally matter morally to the overall wrongness of the discriminatory act, within a protected category. In particular I want to claim that sex and race, the two categories often seen as morally symmetrical, are actually asymmetrical. In those cases, it is misleading to talk of "discrimination on the basis of race" or "discrimination on the basis of sex" as morally unitary categories, categories with a single moral valence across all the particular forms properly characterized by that label...

It is more felicitous to speak of "discriminating against" the more vulnerable of the subgroups of the general category- "discrimination against women","discrimination against blacks","discrimination against Muslims", and so on. Citing the target subgroup is much more likely to capture the moral valence of the form of discrimination in question than is the "on the basis of" formulation. This applies to discrimination against advantaged or dominant subgroups as well- men, whites, Christians, and so on. It helps us to see that such discrimination is, ceteris paribus, of morally less concern than the analogous discrimination against the disadvantaged group.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Here's an excerpt from Lawrence Blum's "Racial and other Asymmetries: A Problem for the Protected Categories Framework for Anti-discrimination Thought" that better states what I was getting at.

Interesting you didn't feel the need to quote me anymore. I'm really out now. Have fun telling yourself it's morally OK to discriminate a certain group of people.

 

[JCHandsom]

Interesting you didn't feel the need to quote me anymore. I'm really out now. Have fun telling yourself it's morally OK to discriminate a certain group of people.

I mean there wasn't anything you said in particular I wanted to respond to. I wanted to expand on what I had written earlier for the sake of clarity and didn't want to bury it in an edit of an earlier post. All it really says is that not all forms of discrimination are created equal, hence the "asymmetry" indicated in the title, an example of which might be stated as "Discriminating against a black person has more moral negative consequences than discriminating against a white person." Which, yeah, is something I believe, and it's fine if you don't.