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[Cornballer]

Eh, given what they had to work with, I think they did an ok job with the finale. Overall, it was a disappointing series, though. At least we got a good deal with it gif out of it.

So if you're going to scrap the show for spare parts, which actors and actresses would you want to use in the future for other projects?

 

[Killthee]

At least we got a good deal with it gif out of it.

Best part of the entire thing.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Eh, given what they had to work with, I think they did an ok job with the finale. Overall, it was a disappointing series, though. At least we got a good deal with it gif out of it.

So if you're going to scrap the show for spare parts, which actors and actresses would you want to use in the future for other projects?

Dichen Lachman should go to SHIELD. Andre Braugher can do that too, I guess. Everyone else = meh.

 

[Funky Papa]

Dichen Lachman should go to SHIELD. Andre Braugher can do that too, I guess. Everyone else = meh.

I'm completely cool with this.

That said, I kind of liked the SEAL guy.

 

[firehawk12]

Best part of the entire thing.

Fuck yeah. lol

 

[Stumpokapow]

Could someone kindly summarize the subplot as to what exactly happened...

Based on the last few episodes, this is the best I can figure out:

Faction 1:
President
Vice President
Defence Contractor Girl's Father
(Secretary of Defence???
Negotiator Woman Who Got Shot to Death on the Island???)
CIA

Plan 1: Assassinate weapons inspector, plant phony nuclear weapons evidence, have Colorado nuke Pakistan
Plan 2: Colorado doesn't nuke Pakistan; sink Colorado, nuke Pakistan, claim it's because Pakistan sunk the Colorado
Plan 3: Nuke Pakistan, claim it's because Pakistan is sharing nukes with terrorists
Motivation: President was under heavy criticism and possibly facing impeachment (I think there was something about this in the pilot before any shit hits the fan)? Consolidate power? ???

Faction 2:
Speaker of the House
Girl Lieutenant's Father
Defence Contractor Girl
Her Boyfriend
Some Others

Plan: Arrest President and Vice President, have Speaker of the House announce he's taking the presidency
Motivation: President is illegitimate due to above plans

But the problem is this doesn't jive with the beginning of the series... why did the Secretary of Defence order the Colorado sank? Why was the initial Pakistani nuclear order sent through the Antarctic relay? The President could have ordered, through the official, verified channel, the nuking of Pakistan and prevented the whole Colorado mess. I initially thought the Secretary of Defence was the one planning the coup, and the phony order was a part of that, and the President was a good guy in all this--but then they totally abandon this. So, uh, why doesn't the President appear until the last scene of the show? Why don't we hear the President before this? Why does the Secretary of Defence handle everything in a secretive way? The President has all the legal authority to square all this.

The Colorado didn't say no to nuking Pakistan because they didn't agree with nuking Pakistan, they said no to nuking Pakistan because they didn't accept that the order was legitimate.

I really think the entire plot of the series was a mess. It's like Star Wars: The Phantom Menace or something---every transition from scene to scene makes sense, everyone's reactions make sense to the last action they're reacting to, but the overall plot is basically nonsense through the series.

I thought the pilot was pretty crummy, as I expressed several pages ago. I thought the series was generally pretty crummy as well. I don't really think any story ideas worked. I don't really think they did a good job with the DC conspiracy plot. I don't really think they did a good job with the CIA Wet Team plot. I don't really think they did a good job with Serrat. I don't really think they did a good job with the XO's wife. I don't really think they did a good job with the Gilligan's Island resource survival plot. The Chinese plot made probably the most amount of sense out of anything, but still nothing great.

The cast is solid enough, but I don't really think any of them had good material to work with. Broughner is a very talented actor, but I don't think the writers understood the character, and as a consequence, I don't think Broughner ever really had a full grip on him. There's no real performances or scenes I can think of in the series that I enjoyed. The good looking defence contractor is a total weak link and her conspiracy speech in the second-last episode is full on Bond Villain cackling garbage. "I'm just to the political left of Atilla the Hun". Terrible, terrible writing and delivery.

Shawn Ryan's weakest show as showrunner.

P.S. Why did the speaker of the house shoot himself in the head? Who is now president? The President is dead--so the Vice President, who we've established is a bad guy, takes charge. Errr, wait, that can't be right. The Speaker Pro Tem is literally never mentioned, so the US now has a leader who apparently has no idea what's going on in the conspiracy. If the media whistleblowing by Random Wife (also, why does nobody question the fact that she shows up alive in the US? Why is the reporter's first question "WE HEARD YOU HAVE INFORMATION FOR US ABOUT THE COLORADO"?) was supposed to be enough to take down the VP, why shoot the president to begin with? The initial plan of arresting the president and deposing him legally makes more sense than the assassination.

 

[jamesinclair]

But the problem is this doesn't jive with the beginning of the series... why did the Secretary of Defence order the Colorado sank? Why was the initial Pakistani nuclear order sent through the Antarctic relay? The President could have ordered, through the official, verified channel, the nuking of Pakistan and prevented the whole Colorado mess. I initially thought the Secretary of Defence was the one planning the coup, and the phony order was a part of that, and the President was a good guy in all this--but then they totally abandon this. So, uh, why doesn't the President appear until the last scene of the show? Why don't we hear the President before this? Why does the Secretary of Defence handle everything in a secretive way? The President has all the legal authority to square all this.

See my post above.

Curry and Sinclair were running the show. President was mentally incompetent.


No one has answered my question.....wasnt it established in episode 1 or 2 that one simply does not have a gun fight on a nuclear sub?

 

[Sober]

Yeah if they were going with the (mentally) incapable president taking orders from other people, then the Arctic relay might've made some sense in a way (if Curry et. al were doing that behind his back?) but I suppose to edit it back to 13 they had to cut all that out, which left a bit of a plot hole there.

^^ makes more sense if it were so, but the finale is edited to make it look like the president was the ringleader and stuff.

Not sure sure bit I assume bullets richocheting in the sub? I would assume also possibly piercing the torpedo casings, possibly the hull if that's even possible. Then again most of the gunfire was in the CIC, don't know if that makes much of a difference.

 

[Stumpokapow]

See my post above.

Curry and Sinclair were running the show. President was mentally incompetent.

That's where they were going, yes, but that's not what's actually in the show.

 

[jamesinclair]

That's where they were going, yes, but that's not what's actually in the show.

You can't pretend that not relevant in a show where they had one episodes notice to wrap it up

 

[Stumpokapow]

Yeah if they were going with the (mentally) incapable president taking orders from other people, then the Arctic relay might've made some sense in a way (if Curry et. al were doing that behind his back?) but I suppose to edit it back to 13 they had to cut all that out, which left a bit of a plot hole there.

Let's consider two scenarios.

Scenario 1: The president is infirm, but a shadowy cabal is effectively acting on his behalf. The only people who know the president is infirm are the cabal. The result is that the firing order and other military orders "come from the President", but are relayed through SecDef or JCOS to the military. The rest of the military has no idea, there's no reason to use the antarctic relay. The cabal has complete control.

Scenario 2: The president is infirm, a shadowy cabal is trying to act on his behalf, but is not able to pose as having the president's authority. In which case no one is running the united states military. It's not going to go to shit over a nuke launch order, it's going to go to shit over some routine business. The president isn't able to sign routine legislation, take basic diplomatic phone calls or meetings, etc.

For the cabal theory to work, the cabal has to be able to pass themselves off as being authorized by the president. Everyone who needs to deal with the president personally in any way needs to be in on it, and they need to be able to pass themselves off to the whole rest of the United States as being in on it.

Also, the idea that the president is infirm isn't borne out by the fact that he's at some sort of secret service bunker hotel room cocktail party when he's shot. So he's clearly at least able to pose as being capable, and his physical health is clearly fine. Why did the secret service stash the president in a publicly accessible hotel room defended by two secret service agents within 24 hours of a coup attempt being revealed on live TV, by the way?

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Mediocre show had mediocre finale. Not surprising.

 

[jamesinclair]

Let's consider two scenarios.

Scenario 1: The president is infirm, but a shadowy cabal is effectively acting on his behalf. The only people who know the president is infirm are the cabal. The result is that the firing order and other military orders "comes from the President", but is relayed through SecDef or JCOS to the military. The rest of the military has no idea, there's no reason to use the antarctic relay.

Scenario 2: The president is infirm, a shadowy cabal is trying to act on his behalf, but is not able to pose as having the president's authority. In which case no one is running the united states military. It's not going to go to shit over a nuke launch order, it's going to go to shit over some routine business.

For the cabal theory to work, the cabal has to be able to pass themselves off as being authorized by the president.

Also, the idea that the president is infirm isn't borne out by the fact that he's at some sort of secret service bunker hotel room cocktail party when he's shot. So he's clearly at least able to pose as being capable, and his physical health is clearly fine. Why did the secret service stash the president in a publicly accessible hotel room defended by two secret service agents within 24 hours of a coup attempt being revealed on live TV, by the way?

They may not have even been secret service, they may have been Sinclair goons, hence why they took orders from their boss.

 

[Stumpokapow]

They may not have even been secret service, they may have been Sinclair goons, hence why they took orders from their boss.

... so, uh, where's the secret service then?

The secret service is legally empowered (and required) to secure and hide the people they protect. Cheney didn't choose to go hide in the bunker, he was forced to. The second the thing with the Speaker happened, the President would be whisked to a bunker.

 

[jamesinclair]

... so, uh, where's the secret service then?

The secret service is legally empowered (and required) to secure and hide the people they protect. Cheney didn't choose to go hide in the bunker, he was forced to. The second the thing with the Speaker happened, the President would be whisked to a bunker.

He's the president, he can fire the ss, especially if he can claim they can boo longer be trusted.

 

[firehawk12]

The show was weakest when it bothered with the conspiracy junk anyway. Let's just pretend it never happened and focus on the badassery that is Andre Braugher.

 

[Stumpokapow]

He's the president, he can fire the ss, especially if he can claim they can boo longer be trusted.

1) The president does not have the authority to do that.

2) The president is, as we've mentioned, legally incapable. So now you have the Secret Service standing down on an order from... a defence contractor.

The show was weakest when it bothered with the conspiracy junk anyway. Let's just pretend it never happened and focus on the badassery that is Andre Braugher.

So badass he got rolled by a heroin addict, a redneck, a rapist, and 1-2 red-shirts.

 

[firehawk12]

So badass he got rolled by a heroin addict, a redneck, a rapist, and 1-2 red-shirts.

Well, they only had two episodes to end the show. lol

 

[Tim the Wiz]

I don't know what the plans were or just how badly the rushed nature of the series affected things but the conspiracy/boring wife subplot ended up making no sense. Unlike Terriers and Chicago Code, this Shawn Ryan show probably deserved to get cancelled.

That being said, the cast did a manageable job with what they had. And Andre Braugher needs to get more roles in everything. (It's past time I did a re-watch bender of Homicide!)

 

[firehawk12]

He's outstanding in Men of a Certain Age if you haven't seen that yet.

 

[RangersFan]

meh, i've always found andre braugher i bit overrated. pretty much they only things i like him in were homicide and last resort.