League of Legends |OT10| Botlane Was A Mistake, It's Nothing But Thresh

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Stone Ocean said:
Get fucked
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Talisman of Ascension
Active cooldown lowered to 40 from 60.
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and now we have permashurelyas

will riot ever learn

also nerfing and nerfing fqc doesn't make the midlane itemization problems go away, would be nice to have some sort of messaging about how bad ap items feel right now. meteos says ap items are weak in the patch rundown and it gets brushed off in a second, it kinda feels like riot is looking the other way for some unknown reason

midlaners are building fqc because rushing anything other than roa feels terrible, would be awesome if something could be done about that
 
imo based on his kit alone (so no numbers) he'll get destroyed midlane

how is this guy gonna deal with zed or leblanc or even someone like xerath or viktor
 
Well in bot lane he's gonna get wrecked by MF or anyone with an auto attack speed steroid or mobility. Looks like his lane phase is intended to be weak because his late game damage is very high. He's basically free kills for any hard engage support or assassin too.
 
Kenai said:
Yea, that's how I feel about Tahm W, it's so unique and I love that I can use it for both offense and defense playmaking just like Thresh Lantern instead of the more binary skills like hooks and skillshots and stuns (and I love being able to poke some as a tank with Q too, just like I can poke a bit with Thresh AA). If it wasn't for that, he'd just be another tank character (with a mediocre soloQ ult).

People can dislike him all they like (opinions are fun, really!) and maybe it's cause I play him so much that I know who I hate playing against (and pick them into him to deal with it botlane, and unironically champion.gg agrees with a lot of my choices), but I would rather face Tahm than a number of other botlane supports who I find more dangerous to vs (or more boring). Everything he does outside his W ally save is extremely telegraphed thanks to his icons, grey health indicator and ult channel.
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Like how you can use nauts Q to set up escapes or engages.
 
semttulo94rin.png


Oh man this champion
 
zkylon said:
also nerfing and nerfing fqc doesn't make the midlane itemization problems go away, would be nice to have some sort of messaging about how bad ap items feel right now. meteos says ap items are weak in the patch rundown and it gets brushed off in a second, it kinda feels like riot is looking the other way for some unknown reason

midlaners are building fqc because rushing anything other than roa feels terrible, would be awesome if something could be done about that
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Chances are itemization changes are part of the mage rework stuff which Riot isn't openly talking about yet.
 
TheFlow said:
Like how you can use nauts Q to set up escapes or engages.
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Only sort of. Naut's Q is literally a halfway point between Blitz Q and Amumu Q and also functions very similar to Thresh Q too. You can set up escapes or engages with almost any hard CC, that doesn't make it feel different.

Tahm W is a Zhyonas for an ally *or* forced timeout for an enemy,available (realistically) at level 2, and remains pretty relevant even after a teamfight has broken out due to that disruption. It's very unique both thematically and in practice, and why he's considered distinct even after getting so many distinctly different champs in both style and function last year. If his kit did feel samey people wouldn't feel salty about him in particular vs anyone else.


Stone Ocean said:
Chances are itemization changes are part of the mage rework stuff which Riot isn't openly talking about yet.
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Yup. They even said that champs not up for an actual reowrk are likely going to be affected by the mage rework due to the items. We can expect new stuff soon for sure.
 
Kenai said:
Only sort of. Naut's Q is literally a halfway point between Blitz Q and Amumu Q and also functions very similar to Thresh Q too. You can set up escapes or engages with almost any hard CC, that doesn't make it feel different.

Tahm W is a Zhyonas for an ally *or* forced timeout for an enemy,available (realistically) at level 2, and remains pretty relevant even after a teamfight has broken out due to that disruption. It's very unique both thematically and in practice, and why he's considered distinct even after getting so many distinctly different champs in both style and function last year. If his kit did feel samey people wouldn't feel salty about him in particular vs anyone else.




Yup. They even said that champs not up for an actual reowrk are likely going to be affected by the mage rework due to the items. We can expect new stuff soon for sure.
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You can't pretend to be Spider-Man with blitz or amu. Naut has longer reach on his q and can use it to hook onto a wall.
 
TheFlow said:
You can't pretend to be Spider-Man with blitz or amu. Naut has longer reach on his q and can use it to hook onto a wall.
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You can pretend to be Tarzan though with Amumu Q or Thresh Q to escape into the jungle. And you can't Rock em Sockem Robot combo with anyone but Blitz.

It's good that they aren't 100% the same but they aren't supposed to, and that doesn't mean they don't end up fulfilling a very similar function (again, they are supposed to). Again, if Tahm's W is so similar to another mechanic, there's no need to complain about him specifically. You might as well complain about Zhyonas w wheels :0)

zkylon said:
if they're not gonna do anything about mage itemization for like 3 months this is gonna be a pretty depressing start to a year
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Pre-rework support items and pre rework ADCs/items weren't great either let me tell ya. I think a lot of ppl here felt the same. I also heard there might have been some pre-post jngler complaining but I stay out of there. Realistically mage items aren't in a great spot but compare it to that stuff and I have to agree with Riot that it isn't as big a deal.

I think their mindset is probably why do anything comprehensive now and take time/resources away from other stuff when it is going to be irrelevant in a few months with the new items/kits from the rework and balancing will have to be reviewed again then anyway. Outside of literal bugs and abuse type stuff we probably won't see much before then, notice how few mages have been targeted for major buffs/nerfs lately outside of that?
 
Since we're talking about Naut, what should I build if I'm ever forced to go top lane again with him? I was forced to play top in a ranked game when an earlier player picked Braum, and all I managed to do was start with doran's shield and then build a couple tanky defensive items I remembered (sunfire cape, thorn mail), since his recommended build is support only and doesn't have many offensive items.
 
JulianImp said:
Since we're talking about Naut, what should I build if I'm ever forced to go top lane again with him? I was forced to play top in a ranked game when an earlier player picked Braum, and all I managed to do was start with doran's shield and then build a couple tanky defensive items I remembered (sunfire cape, thorn mail), since his recommended build is support only and doesn't have many offensive items.
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Dead Man's, Rod of Ages, and Spirit Visage are what I see people take.
 
Finally got to play Jhin. Need to play more games with him but I'm not sure building any attack speed is even necessary, aside from the extra crit from zeal items. His passive gets the bonus move speed from atk spd but the bonus ad is mostly from crit. Maybe I'm wrong and it swings completely the other way, but I dunno.

His scaling is absolutely insane. Went ER-IE-CDR boots before the game ended. Triforce could be good on him, and I want to see how much AD he'd get from the ghostblade active too. It's probably garbage but I want to try Rageblade as well for fun. IIRC his abilities have ap scaling and the crazy bonus ad could be cool.

Definitely seems like you want to cap CDR, gives him some longevity in a fight. Maxed Q-W-E. Guessing that'll be standard but I'm not sure.

Overall he seems neat. His ult is a lot of fun to use, and his kit has pretty solid cohesion. Not sure how well it fits his theme but he's still fun. The VO work is very well done.
 
JulianImp said:
Ah, I initially thought dead man interacting badly with his passive made it less appealing to build for Naut.
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Dead man plate is amazing for Naut.

Never take spirit visage unless you plan to build two mr items.

Get mr boots and locket instead for team.

Edit: I am talking about support naut, but rod of ages is solid for jungle
 
Hearing Jhin used to be able to one shot people on the 4th shot makes me chuckle, this was a great interview. I got a lot of insight on the design process.
 
Kinda confused on what makes a character "suited" for a role/ lane. Like I get ADC having to have a partner, at end game Trist is a beast but I know in the lane phase she needs that support help to split aggro and bully lanes/ keep her alive. I wouldn't want to face many mid laners 1-v-1 before hitting my power spikes because she gets so much better with items and time.

But for "jungle" champs? I really have a hard time wrapping my head around why so many champs seem to be seen as just JG champs. So many to the point where I can't find builds for characters like Vi, Evelynn, Dragon Lady and so on that arnt for the JG. I mean, I get why you would want 2 champs in bot (closer to the dragon which is something that can be taken through out the game) and I figure that tanky champs are good at JG but I'm not sure what exactly makes a top lane champ different from a mid lane champ or why you wouldn't double jg via 2 top laners swapping from JG to Top through out the lane phase if you apparently only need 1 on top.

Annoys me cause I like a lot of characters that seem to be type cased as JG and I don't really see the appeal to JG but I'd like to use them.
 
Well in basically in league you can try to play off meta things. But it usually doesnt end up going well for you. The difference between the lanes and jungles are a bunch of things.
1) how good is there clear in the jungle. Basically how fast and effective are they at clearing.
2) how are there ganks, do they have a gap closer or a some sort of cc.
3) what type of champ are they, usually brusiers tanks and assassin are in the jungle.
Mages and adcs cant really jungle that well.

The difference between mid and top
1) mages and champs that snowball are midlane because it is the most important that they win, because it is right near dragon and baron.
2) mid can roam either bot or top lane. Which means you want a snowball champ mid lane rather than top because if they dont win it is hard for them to snowball top.
 
Most jungle champs can squeeze into top lane if they have to, it's just that they tend to have abilities that aren't particularly helpful there. Amumu or Warwick are good examples of champs that are "jungle" champs mainly because a lot of their kit doesn't really do anything in a solo lane.

The main difference between mid lane and top lane is that top lane is longer, while mid lane is more central. So for top lane you want a champion that can survive and sustain pretty well on their own, because it's a long walk back to turret if you get ganked, but they don't have to be as good at waveclear or roaming because there's not as much for them to do.

Theoretically you could take a top laner mid if you wanted to, but they might have difficulty keeping up pressure and the other mid laner might roam. Similarly, you could take a mid laner top if you wanted to, but if they got ganked they might not be able to get to safety. I'd probably talk to my team before I did it, though.
 
Starting to realize how sick of deranged or psychotic video game characters I am while listening to this Jhin VO.
 
Black-Wind said:
Kinda confused on what makes a character "suited" for a role/ lane. Like I get ADC having to have a partner, at end game Trist is a beast but I know in the lane phase she needs that support help to split aggro and bully lanes/ keep her alive. I wouldn't want to face many mid laners 1-v-1 before hitting my power spikes because she gets so much better with items and time.

But for "jungle" champs? I really have a hard time wrapping my head around why so many champs seem to be seen as just JG champs. So many to the point where I can't find builds for characters like Vi, Evelynn, Dragon Lady and so on that arnt for the JG. I mean, I get why you would want 2 champs in bot (closer to the dragon which is something that can be taken through out the game) and I figure that tanky champs are good at JG but I'm not sure what exactly makes a top lane champ different from a mid lane champ or why you wouldn't double jg via 2 top laners swapping from JG to Top through out the lane phase if you apparently only need 1 on top.

Annoys me cause I like a lot of characters that seem to be type cased as JG and I don't really see the appeal to JG but I'd like to use them.
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I'll be speaking based on my very limited and shallow knowledge of the game, but here goes:

From what I've seen, most mid champions tend to be ranged, and those who don't often offer some way to get in as well as poke (Zed, Akali, Katarina, Yasuo). Opposed to that are top champions, which are more often than not melee-oriented and build into tanks/bruisers later on (but there're exceptions such as Gnar and Lulu, I guess). I believe lane bullies are what they call champions that make it hard to go in for the last hit because they present the treat of taking high damage for doing so, either in the form of poke or a string of abilities (like Darius'), which is why some top champions like having a projectile so that they can farm even from afar (ie: Dr. Mundo).

I think bot uses the two-champion (adc+support) combo mostly because it helps having two champions really close to the dragon and mid being a faster lane (due to how minions have to cover a lot less ground to get from one side of the lane to the other). The trick is that with all three lanes and the jungle taken up, the fifth player will often be locked out of high gold influx (since they'd be stealing cs from their teammates) so they go support, which always gets a gold-generating item to make up for the lack of cs gold and is itemized in a way to be functional to the team without spending too much gold on their gear. Their role as vision-granters is probably there because the other roles don't have the money or inventory space to get sightstones (and green wards are gone), and also because all lane champions often have to keep a constant look on minion waves to get their precious cs. Therefore, the support having to only poke/initiate every now and then and not having to worry about last-hitting (unless you're Thresh) means they can wander about and place their wards around the map to make sure the team can overextend without fearing the enemy jungler coming out of nowhere for a gank, or to keep tabs on the dragon, baron or even the enemy jungle if they get the chance to place wards in there.

From what I understand, you can't have a jungle/top rotation because of several things:
  • Itemization: Roles tend to have items specialized for them, and bringing them out of their intended use often results in underwhelming results. For example, buying a jungle item means you get higher health regeneration while in there, but that won't help at all while you're laning
  • Summoner spells: This is very important, since Smite takes up 1/2 of your available summoners. The fact that top also likes packing teleport for surprise visits to bot or to nearly be in two places at once (ie: you go help take down a turret and TP back to lane to fend off pushed minion waves while you were gone) means you'd have to pick some odd sets such as TP/Smite, which would leave no room for Ignite (in the case of "surprise, you're dead" junglers such as Shaco) or Flash as a much-needed mobility tool, which is a huge help for champions that don't have built-in mobility and/or ways to hop over walls
  • Map control: Junglers roam around the map while looking for gank opportunities to help their team rack up more gold through kills and also secure objectives. A top/jg rotation would probably require the two to be around top most of the time (to tag in/out), which would greately impact the presence they can afford on other lanes (especially bot)
 
kenbo said:
What do you call Lulu?
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When she was revealed they noted that Lulu had a twisted sense of mischievousness. That doesn't really fall under the same umbrella as the psychotic killer who knows no reason.
 
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