Orochinagis
Member
I miss the portal of zzzzzzzzzzzzz
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League of Legends |OT11| going
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
You can't fool me. That tier list didn't even have Lux until platinum and above!
What problem do you have with her? I find that she's not too mechanically taxing compared to some other ADCs.
I found this on SS for those wondering what the tier list [image] is based on:
S-Tier: Champions produce best results
A-Tier: Safe/reliable picks
B-Tier: Can exist if you are adept at playing them
I assume the list is for climbing while learning the game rather than specific champions, but I have no idea in all honesty.
S-Tier: Champions produce best results
A-Tier: Safe/reliable picks
B-Tier: Can exist if you are adept at playing them
I assume the list is for climbing while learning the game rather than specific champions, but I have no idea in all honesty.
NihonTiger90
Member
Malz sucks right now because he keeps tilting my team's mid into an orbit right out of the galaxy. And then he's so fed he 100-0s everything else.
If that's the criteria for the tier list then I think it fails at fulfilling them. Surely high-winrate champions must be more important than they are in the tier list.
NihonTiger90
Member
Just started playing Corki both ADC and mid. Anything special I should know or practice mechanically with him, and is Trinity Force-ER-IE still the way to build first 3 items?
Like, how are we defining results here? Because apparently it's not "wins."
Orochinagis
Member
I just only know her Q does damage but besides that when she have high speed attack I cant no loger do her jumps
Maybe I just had a bad stretch with her but I had a lot of trouble in lane producing favorable trades, leading to getting harassed out and falling behind. And I always felt so weak midgame. My best games were starting BT instead of bork or hurricane when that was a thing. I must be mismanaging her stacks or something.
Was awhile ago though. Maybe I'll give her another shot. I hardly see her in silver/gold now.
"Going off public winrates to determine a champions worth is quite possibly one of the most appalling things that somehow exists." - his Twitter
Also, he clarified saying it's solely about climbing. I don't follow him so I have no idea about his reasoning/theory on the game.
No one has ever properly explained to me what makes winrate such a poor metric for gauging solo queue effectiveness.
If globally having an udyr on your team in gold ranking produces a win 55% of the time, compared to say a ryze producing a win 45% of the time, I would gauge udyr to be a stronger solo queue pick than ryze. What about this is a wrong statement?
He is so filled with hyperbole without ever explaining himself it's remarkable.
So, I mean, that's a dumb tweet but winrates aren't everything, that's true. But generally strong champs that have low winrates have one of the following:
* winrates that trend up hard with games played or ranking
* pick/ban presence in professional play
* pick/ban presence across all levels of ranked play
Like, otherwise aren't you just kind of making stuff up?
You know, I'll concede that global winrate by itself is a poor metric to base judgement on. However, take a site like champion.gg which breaks it down into winrate by game time, winrate by champion experience and winrate by role and in that light, you actually have some hard data to work with.
Ekko jungle for example. Winrate around 50% globally but players with more games on him have the winrate climb significantly up to 56 or 57%. That's pretty telling. Ekko might even need a nerf when you look at it like that. I suspect that will come with the runic echoes movespeed nerf but that's besides the point.
Edit: Elise is the same way. Only 50% winrate average but the more experienced players have upwards of a 58% winrate.
Ekko jungle for example. Winrate around 50% globally but players with more games on him have the winrate climb significantly up to 56 or 57%. That's pretty telling. Ekko might even need a nerf when you look at it like that. I suspect that will come with the runic echoes movespeed nerf but that's besides the point.
Edit: Elise is the same way. Only 50% winrate average but the more experienced players have upwards of a 58% winrate.
problem isn't that winrates is bad, it's that ppl use winrates in a very superficial way that leads to misunderstandings
winrate alone is nothing
winrate vs playrate vs elo helps a lot
and also competitive data
then u can say if something is op
but maybe something isn't op in itself but it's a meta thing or whatever, so it's always complicated
winrate alone is nothing
winrate vs playrate vs elo helps a lot
and also competitive data
then u can say if something is op
but maybe something isn't op in itself but it's a meta thing or whatever, so it's always complicated
Stone Ocean
Member
Winrate is a complicated stat to look by itself because of how many variables this game has as a team game. Then there's play rate and champion mastery to go along with it among other things.
That said, it's a valuable metric when combined with other stats. It might not be the end all of champion balance but it can definitely give you insight on certain trends, specially when it spikes hard.
That said, it's a valuable metric when combined with other stats. It might not be the end all of champion balance but it can definitely give you insight on certain trends, specially when it spikes hard.
I guess he considers players of some of the lower tiers unable to pilot the champions that are really strong, at least not without a significant investment into learning the champion. I think you guys are better off asking him those questions as I know next to nothing about the game. lol
Ah, you would think so. However let me introduce you to one of LS's S tier adcs - ashe.
She starts at a healthy 52% win rate, spikes around 15 games played at 54% then plummets to a 44% winrate for people with over 125 games played.
http://champion.gg/champion/Ashe/ADC
Why would this be? I suspect it is solely based on team comp. Thoughtful play with ashe will yield good results but playing her into any old team will result in some very poor performances.
Some good discussion here, global winrate is indeed not everything.
Rather than just that, I would make a guess that it is because there exists few players with 125+ games played with Ashe and it might be noisy data.
Rather than just that, I would make a guess that it is because there exists few players with 125+ games played with Ashe and it might be noisy data.
GAF says renek is a bad champ
keksimus maximus
and i was going against garen, shen, voli, mf, gp
Makes sense. Ashe's damage potential isn't that high compared to other ADC's, so even an Ashe played to her full potential will still be limited in how much damage she can get done in a skirmish or a team-fight.
keksimus maximus
and i was going against garen, shen, voli, mf, gp
Makes sense. Ashe's damage potential isn't that high compared to other ADC's, so even an Ashe played to her full potential will still be limited in how much damage she can get done in a skirmish or a team-fight.
I can buy that. After all it's a small subset of a small subset. Like 3% of a 9% pick rate or something like that. But it's a pretty linear decline. Even with a small sample size, there appears to be a correlation between playing too many ashe games and losing.
That jumps out to me as a champ to avoid spamming to climb elo even if I knew nothing else about her or her kit.
Knowing what I know about her, I'd say I agree with the data. You are going to have a bad time if you blind pick her every game.
wtf kind of team comp is that
She's like Katarina in that her kit is fundamentally flawed in the sense of being extremely binary. Just like Katarina, she can instantly dash to squishies and blow them up with little to no counterplay. Also just like Katarina, this makes her extremely hard to balance, in that she's either nearly useless, or rattling off multi-kills with ease. Instead of subjecting us to OP Kat, it's better to keep her garbage until Riot can figure out what to do with her, much like how Ryze is now.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I loved when the summoner icons would sometimes replace skill particles. That happened to my buddy where Kassadins Q particles was replaced with Flash, here's a picture-
It was fucking hilarious.
Fair enough. Blind picking Ashe is often a bad idea.
That Ashe curve is actually really weird. There are quite a few champs that show a steady improvement in win rate with practice. There's also another characteristic curve that slopes up until 125 games then collapses over 125 games, and those suggest to me problems with counterpicks, etc. that make them a bad champion to force in every game.
Ashe is the only champ I can find that just keeps getting worse the more you play her. Past 15 games you are just screwing yourself. (Also, man, those graphs are actually heartbreaking in the way the dots are spaced. Terrible visualization.)
I don't think it's as simple as her being not ideal for most comps. It looks more like she is bad in general, but maybe good in one or two specific situations. So if you only pick her in those weird situations you do well, and otherwise you lose.
edit: Sivir looks to have a very similarly shaped curve, actually.
Stone Ocean
Member
She was nerfed because she was really, really strong in solo Q at the time.
He might have been one of the champs that got a model size change recently, I'm not sure.
NihonTiger90
Member
Same. As mentioned before, I just worry my support won't peel and will treat me as their personal meat shield, then bitch about me feeding.
Orochinagis
Member
Damm Illaoi cant to nothing against Olaf
Otakumegane
Member
I started messing around with some league community videos because I never watched those.
Saw the OT video, the draven braum one, and the animated avatar the last airbender style promotion of worlds (really great), and that was all fun and good.
...Then I got to Ahri. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.
Saw the OT video, the draven braum one, and the animated avatar the last airbender style promotion of worlds (really great), and that was all fun and good.
...Then I got to Ahri. I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.
Orochinagis
Member
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Did ypu dodge queues a lot?
Stone Ocean
Member
It means old new Quinn will just fuck shit up when she arrives
No, I don't really believe in dodging.