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League of Legends |OT11| going

W

Wolf Akela

Member
Dunno what people want from this game.

- Too snowbally! Game is decided by 15 mins! Comebacks are impossible!
- Too boring! Game is still undecided after 45 because its difficult to end games. Long death timers discourage plays!

Same crap about pro matches. Its either "boring farm fest tower swap" or "clown fiesta".
 
L

Leezard

Member
dimb said:
Late game Jhin is pretty mobile with his passive. He can also operate well outside the range of danger. I don't really know that mobility is a make or break point for ADCs. It certainly doesn't help Tristana. Utility is probably king still.
Click to expand...
I'd put him on around the same mobility as jinx, probably slightly better though they have different conditions for their mobility. He's good at staying in long range to be safe though, that's true.
pigeon said:
I'm not sure I agree. Yeah, it's a slight buff/nerf to like, Olaf and Udyr, but I think it's kind of dumb design to make an ability optional in the expectation that everybody in the game will take it except for two dudes.

It might be interesting to see what the game looks like going the other way and just taking Flash away. Although I think the answer might be "even more frustrating."
Click to expand...
Maybe. It could be done ok but I don't see it as a good reason to remove that small choice that exists. I'm not particularly opposed to it, I just don't see it as a needed change.

Removing flash would break the game and make everyone with mobility much stronger.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
Wolf Akela said:
Dunno what people want from this game.

- Too snowbally! Game is decided by 15 mins! Comebacks are impossible!
- Too boring! Game is still undecided after 45 because its difficult to end games. Long death timers discourage plays!

Same crap about pro matches. Its either "boring farm fest tower swap" or "clown fiesta".
Click to expand...

You're addressing concerns that people really haven't really been debating much today. Please try again with a less vague post more in line with what we've been talking about.
 
D

drawkcaB

Member
dimb said:
Late game Jhin is pretty mobile with his passive. He can also operate well outside the range of danger. I don't really know that mobility is a make or break point for ADCs. It certainly doesn't help Tristana. Utility is probably king still.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Few would agree with me but I think Ashe and Varus and good ADCs for just that reason. If ADC players don't feel impactful before the 25min mark then why not try playing champions whose kits make them inherently useful.

I wonder how many people know that Ashe's win rate is ~57% in diamond.
 
W

Wolf Akela

Member
Nekofrog said:
You're addressing concerns that people really haven't really been debating much today. Please try again with a less vague post more in line with what we've been talking about.
Click to expand...

Some of the last few posts have been talking about snowballing and closures. What are you talking about

Actually, what's your beef against me? I've noticed hostile posts against me in the OT (not in just one OT) and they all came from you. I asked you the same question last time but you skirted it.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
Wolf Akela said:
Some of the last few posts have been talking about snowballing and closures. What are you talking about

Actually, what's your beef against me? I've noticed hostile posts against me in the OT (not in just one OT) and they all came from you. I asked you the same question last time but you skirted it.
Click to expand...

They were talking about how the game is generally snowballed, you posted:

- Too snowbally! Game is decided by 15 mins! Comebacks are impossible!
Click to expand...

Not only were you strawmanning an argument that nobody was actually making, you didn't bother to address what we've really been talking about for the past 2 hours.

Also, i've never had a beef with you. I don't know your IGN, all I know is your posts. I saw a bad post and I asked for you to explain it further. in what way have I been hostile to you? If I have, it was not intentional. I'm not Ghost [kappa]
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Leezard said:
That wouldn't solve anything and only be a nerf to champs that don't want flash though. Two summoner spells + flash would be ridiculous too.
Click to expand...

What champ doesn't want flash

like

if you don't take flash you're hindering yourself on purpose

more mobility is always a good thing

So making flash just a basic tool for everyone isn't really a nerf for champs who don't want flash, because now they have flash on top of 2 summoner spells

how is that a nerf, having an extra mobility option

the fuck
 
M

Mostmanlyman

Member
Having flash plus 2 Summoner spells would probably end up with alot of annoying shit like 5 man TP 5 man smite stuff like that. If you think TP meta is bad think if you could have 5 man TPs.
 
G

garath

Member
Got a third key fragment instead. Opened up a chest, TPA mundo. Meh. One more skin shard and I can combine to roll the dice again. Definitely a long game here. If it isn't the chests, it's the keys, then it's the shards, then it's the essence. Fine by me though. Just wish chests weren't limited by anything more than time. One per champ kinda sucks.

Newt said:
You know what, you guys have inspired me. I'll do a single solo q game of Ashe. Lets see how this works out...
Click to expand...

Reaver first!
 
N

Newt

Member
Won one lost one. Didn't really enjoy either of games. I don't think low mobility champions are really playable unless you're like duo with some peel support that's just gonna sit on your ass all day keeping you safe.

Most popular support is Thresh though, so that's not happening lol.

You have the wrong idea btw Leezard, neither Sivir nor Jhin are low mobility champions, Sivir especially isn't. When I talk about low mobility champions I'm talking about stuff like MF and Ashe. Sivir and Jhin both get a lot of free movement speed.
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
Even though the game is balanced around the idea that everyone will be using flash, you can't just make it a default spell like recall.

If you gave everyone flash for free you'd probably end up with stuff like TP+Ignite Hecarim being meta again along with other annoying combinations resulting from too much power. I'm pretty sure you'd mostly end up with 5 TP's on every team when it's all said and done and the only flexibility would be in one spell, just like it is now.

If you remove flash from the game, certain champions become even more useless than they already are due to lack of mobility in their kit. If you think the game is stale now, wait until you see nothing but Ez vs Cait snoozefest every game in bot lane.
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
tbh, i think it would drastically alter the jungle more than any other role. everyone has free flash and at least 2 lanes probably now have heal/barrier on top of that. who you gonna gank now?
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Mostmanlyman said:
For me it is giving a whole team 2 free summoner spells.

Also mid laners running heal barrier would be fun, really hard to kill.
Click to expand...

Both teams will have 2 summoner sspells

Tweak and and more spells now that flash is basic and you can increase the gameplay in many ways

Its a win win(and stealth nerf for champs that dont need flash or something)
 
M

Mostmanlyman

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Both teams will have 2 summoner sspells

Tweak and and more spells now that flash is basic and you can increase the gameplay in many ways

Its a win win(and stealth nerf for champs that dont need flash or something)
Click to expand...
Yeah i know both teams get it but it would make stuff alot more annoying and cheesy. I dont want 5 man tps into baron and drag, or 5 man back doors. I dont want every squishy running heal barrier, even if i have exhaust ignite. I dont want yi's and olaf running smite ghost.
Shit like that would be hell
 
P

pigeon

Banned
Neol said:
I feel like if flash was removed then a lot of champion need some overhauls. Nothing major but I feel a lot of the gameplay revolves around that spell.
Click to expand...

Well, yeah. I don't think anybody is talking about just yanking flash in the next patch. It's more of a post-season kind of project. Lots of stuff would probably change a little.

I think giving everybody free flash is a lot more likely than any of the other options, because it's the least disruptive choice. I don't think it leads to a 5-TP meta, like, if TP were that much better than every other option we'd already be in a 5-TP meta. Flash actually just is significantly better than every other summoner spell. That isn't true for any other summoner spell -- in general people have different priorities for the second slot, that's why you can tell what lane somebody's in by looking at their summoners. With a second free slot there would be actual variety rather than just whether top took TP or Ignite.

Riot has discussed it before, I recall reading, but clearly they didn't actually decide to do anything about it. So I wouldn't worry about it! But it is straightforwardly bad design to have a free slot that is actually mandatory for everybody except three champions. It makes the average player worse at both playing everybody AND playing the three exceptions.

Nekofrog said:
tbh, i think it would drastically alter the jungle more than any other role. everyone has free flash and at least 2 lanes probably now have heal/barrier on top of that. who you gonna gank now?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you have ignite or ghost now, so your ganking is that much stronger. Junglers are, if anything, the most expanded as well, because they've never actually had any summoner choices before.
 
P

patchday

Member
Neol said:
I feel like if flash was removed then a lot of champion need some overhauls. Nothing major but I feel a lot of the gameplay revolves around that spell.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can only speak from my meager experience in Smite its quite wonderful there. Instead people try to use their "Sprint" spell but you can counter with CC.

I cannot imagine how LoL would play without it. I've used Flash on all my heroes. I used to run Jungle Vi without Flash though. I would rely on her Q and R to close the gap. could've sworn I did better with that setup
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Hard said:
% health anything is the most cancerous mechanic right now. Why are we allowed to do damage without building damage items again? Someone thought this was OK?

Also, this Lux tried to cheese me out with Dark Seal into Mejai's Saltstealer and snowball the game, but the squad wasn't having it. Lux still got her kills, but we stomped on the rest of her team and won the game.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2132162195/210519569?tab=stats
Click to expand...
mejais is not a cheese, specially on lux, and she did three times as much damage as you and participated in more kills too so idk why you would single her out when she was the only player in the game that won her matchup

also % health is tricky. it's important that tanks are somewhat relevant as damage dealers or else you can just ignore them (or they would need to have really frustrating amounts of cc). that being said it's often poorly tuned by riot but % health is just kind of necessary if tanks are gonna be relevant in the lategame.

it just feels to me like you're being like those people that whine about too many knockups
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Mostmanlyman said:
Yeah i know both teams get it but it would make stuff alot more annoying and cheesy. I dont want 5 man tps into baron and drag, or 5 man back doors. I dont want every squishy running heal barrier, even if i have exhaust ignite. I dont want yi's and olaf running smite ghost.
Shit like that would be hell
Click to expand...

It would of course require tooling of the Summoner Spells as well as added new ones to in order to combat that sort of stuff.

So the options being-
Remove flash(Unbalancing the game due to many champions being designed around the existence of flash)
Make Flash a basic ability(Thus requiring a retooling of the summoner spells as well as new additions)
Keep flash as is(Continued reliance and consideration of flash whilst balancing and creating new champions)
 
D

DRE Fei

Member
Cinderhulk top laners would come back.

Ahh, the good old days where some unkillable tank kills you by standing next to you with gromp buff, thornmail and no mechanics.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
DRE Fei said:
Cinderhulk top laners would come back.

Ahh, the good old days where some unkillable tank kills you by standing next to you with gromp buff, thornmail and no mechanics.
Click to expand...

I come from the day where stacking Sunfires on an Evelyn was a good idea

and you know what

that shit was fun! They need to bring back stupid fun like that bad.

#MakeLeagueGreatAgain
 
N

Nekofrog

Banned
pigeon said:
Yeah, but you have ignite or ghost now, so your ganking is that much stronger. Junglers are, if anything, the most expanded as well, because they've never actually had any summoner choices before.
Click to expand...

Now laners are taking smite. There's more than just ganking that would be hit for a jungler. you thought it was annoying when your mid and top clear one side of your entire jungle without smite(sorry rex, those are my camps after 20 minutes :3 ), now more than one lane has the option if they want to.

oh god dragon control

oh god baron control

people are already bursting when they shouldnt to "avoid" a steal when a good jungler can account for enemy jungler damage when he's doing his own rotation to secure the baron, throw more smites it and gfhkdghhkjd
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
honestly, the summoner spells system is pretty weak

the only role that gets something out of it is mid cos you really can choose what you go to each game (cleanse against tf, tp if you're a good tp champion like lizzy, barrier or heal if you want to play defensive, ignite if you're looking for a bit extra damage on your combo, exhaust if you're fighting an assassin like yasuo), but every other role just has set summoners that don't ever change

it's really lame and it feels like it's there just cos rito doesn't really want to deal with it

adding a few new summoners would be interesting but i have to wonder how they'd work, there's already a bit of overlap between barrier/heal and there's already a bunch of existing summoners that are completely useless.

but i feel like it's one side of the game that should either be overhauled or shut down entirely
 
P

patchday

Member
Tizoc said:
Newt
Go Supp
KS everything
Carry your unworthy team
And be immortalized as DiamondGAF for all eternity
Click to expand...

This post reminded me of that one Jinx that pissed me so bad I decided to take all her creeps and I went ham on the enemies during teamfights (I was support). We probably would've won if she didnt distract the team so much with her drama

So many bad memories no wonder I havent played in over 8 days... I was thinking to play today but I see I just got Rainbow six siege in the mail.... (edit: Wow... How dare I assume I could just stick my disc into my PS4 and play??! Got 30 mins of updates, 4gb. Guess there is time for LoL...)
 
2

23qwerty

Member
zkylon said:
honestly, the summoner spells system is pretty weak

the only role that gets something out of it is mid cos you really can choose what you go to each game (cleanse against tf, tp if you're a good tp champion like lizzy, barrier or heal if you want to play defensive, ignite if you're looking for a bit extra damage on your combo, exhaust if you're fighting an assassin like yasuo), but every other role just has set summoners that don't ever change

it's really lame and it feels like it's there just cos rito doesn't really want to deal with it

adding a few new summoners would be interesting but i have to wonder how they'd work, there's already a bit of overlap between barrier/heal and there's already a bunch of existing summoners that are completely useless.

but i feel like it's one side of the game that should either be overhauled or shut down entirely
Click to expand...

Auto kill one champion at any point during the game (can only be used once per game)

gjn81wvxqsq6yzcwubok.png
 
H

Hard

Banned
zkylon said:
mejais is not a cheese, specially on lux, and she did three times as much damage as you and participated in more kills too so idk why you would single her out when she was the only player in the game that won her matchup

also % health is tricky. it's important that tanks are somewhat relevant as damage dealers or else you can just ignore them (or they would need to have really frustrating amounts of cc). that being said it's often poorly tuned by riot but % health is just kind of necessary if tanks are gonna be relevant in the lategame.

it just feels to me like you're being like those people that whine about too many knockups
Click to expand...

Not the point. The goal was to render the rest of her team useless and just burst her down since she has no defensive items. Ofc she's going to do more damage building full AP while I'm building defensive items like Abyssal & Rod.

and i was ahead after laning phase in kills and cs but w/e

Why not use flat damage values with mediocre ratios?
 
B

Black-Wind

Member
Think Imma take Vi into lane.

Practiced in a custom last night to see just how much she was buffed. That E buff is BEAUTIFUL! That along with the mana cost reduction plus a corruption potion makes it so that you can spam that for a good bit of poke AND the E applies the effects of the potion.

I think I'm gonna do it. Bruiser Vi Mid lane (Or top ... but tops scary place, I only trust my Poppy/ Garen up there so far and even now I'll dodge if I feel like I'm against certain champs. Wanna try Moakia as a Tanky AP dmg dealer top given his buffs but it's gonna take forever to get IP for him after AS. :( ...)
 
P

patchday

Member
zkylon said:
honestly, the summoner spells system is pretty weak

the only role that gets something out of it is mid cos you really can choose what you go to each game (cleanse against tf, tp if you're a good tp champion like lizzy, barrier or heal if you want to play defensive, ignite if you're looking for a bit extra damage on your combo, exhaust if you're fighting an assassin like yasuo), but every other role just has set summoners that don't ever change

it's really lame and it feels like it's there just cos rito doesn't really want to deal with it

adding a few new summoners would be interesting but i have to wonder how they'd work, there's already a bit of overlap between barrier/heal and there's already a bunch of existing summoners that are completely useless.

but i feel like it's one side of the game that should either be overhauled or shut down entirely
Click to expand...

What does "cleanse against tf" mean?
 
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