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[Quonny]

.

But...people have been boosted since before DQ. Duo queue. And the rules of division separation still exist.

Sorry, but solo queue is dumb and just splits the playerbase. I hope it never comes back.

 

[zkylon]

the specialized roles point soda makes is also very important, as it guarantees no one gets stuck with a role they don't know how to play, which should raise general game quality

the big problem is people using mid as secondary, which is entirely riot's poor tuning's fault. they'll fix that, eventually, i guess

 

[Newt]

the player behaviour team has delivered a lot.

Instant feedback systems, anti-afk stuff, new champion select, dynamic queue, low priority queue and they're working on even more.

In terms of solo queue, it's not about delivery. It's about what makes the most sense for the player base. Is it really worth prioritising work on a pure solo queue over other features when only a small population of the playerbase will use it? Or is it better to use those resources on improving dynamic queue and eliminating or at the very least minimising the current issues with it? Dynamic queue has improved the rank experience for a lot of players, and a lot of the fears people had before launch haven't materialised. More work still needs to be done and high elo especially needs more help, but still.

Not to mention the matchmaking issues solo queue's low playerbase would introduce. Imbalanced teams, long queue times. Doesn't seem worth to me.

They might decide solo queue is worth the work over other projects, but personally I doubt it. They are looking at other alternatives too.

Totally understand where people who wanted solo queue are coming from. I personally don't agree with them and vastly prefer dynamic queue, but people should voice their opinions and give us feedback so we improve on everything going forward.

Or you could call people you don't know a cunt and nobody will want to listen to you.

It's not about solo q. It's about Lyte and his shitty damage control. You don't say solo q is coming out in a few weeks if you don;t even have plans to implement it. I'm not targeting the behaviour team, I'm targeting Lyte specifically. He just comes off an ass to the community, and probably shouldn;t be in a leadership position at all.

But...people have been boosted since before DQ. Duo queue. And the rules of division separation still exist.

Sorry, but solo queue is dumb and just splits the playerbase. I hope it never comes back.

Do you even play ranked lol...

 

[jerd]

Yeah i got back to the division I ended last season at in about 50 games as a mostly solo player and have had a lot of really fun and memorable games. It just seems like a lot of the knocks on dq are just assumptions that everyone immediately made about the system when it was announced or just harbored feelings from when it was first released and queue times were forever for anyone above gold

I absolutely agree though riot NEVER should have said solo q is coming. Many of us always suspected it would never make it out

 

[pigeon]

People must have really hated duo queue!

 

[Fracas]

you masochist

 

[Hard]

Went against Lux/Jinx/Fizz/Sej/Voli

God, so cancerous.

 

[Quonny]

Do you even play ranked lol...

Haven't played in a week, so it's probably totally different now.

 

[zkylon]

you masochist

hahaha

 

[Fracas]

I just tried off-tank graves top for the first time. Death's Dance, Sterak's, Maw, the works

who approved this champion

 

[Peanut Butter]

 

[Newt]

Played another game. I saw a Bard in champ select, and I thought maybe I should play a game without trolling the lobby. Big mistake. Lane felt like a 1v2.

Bard was literally doing nothing, just throwing out random qs and missing everything.

I used to enjoy this game so much. Solo q just feels like a chore now .

 

[killatopak]

yeah. tried out graves too. 200 armor and mr without any defensive items except for SG and Maw if you can even call them defensive.

 

[zkylon]

i sort of hate and love the leblanc design at the same time

on one hand it's a really dumb lazy sexy lady for the sake of sexy lady design that just looks ridiculous with the impossible to put on bra-top-thing and the cape and the silly crown and stuff

on the other hand, i love ridiculous

so i'm gonna say leblanc's alright

Played another game. I saw a Bard in champ select, and I thought maybe I should play a game without trolling the lobby. Big mistake. Lane felt like a 1v2.

Bard was literally doing nothing, just throwing out random qs and missing everything.

I used to enjoy this game so much. Solo q just feels like a chore now .

patch 6.7 noot, believe

6.7 is our patch

 

[Blizzard]

I feel like duo queue helps people climb better than solo queue.

I'd like to see solo queue for that reason -- with absolutely no help, see if people have as much success and fun stuck with 4 randoms in any given game.

 

[Hard]

God we threw so hard the last 2 games. So frustrating.

 

[Calvero]

I enjoy Dynamic Queue. I also enjoyed Solo Queue. I don't care which one. I have fun.

 

[Hard]

What a shit night. Finished 0-3.

Threw 2 games, then got a pick, destroyed their inhib, and ended up getting pentakilled by a plat Master Yi smurf.

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK

w/e im going to bed

 

[Hazaro]

ah ok, makes no difference to me, i already half expected it when they announced they were gonna "try"

splitting solo q is a bad idea anyways, specially at high elo where finding games already takes forever

i wonder how doto does it for high elo since they have a lot less players

Killed Solo Q. If you mean the Solo MMR / Party MMR then if you solo you are using your solo, if you party queue and get matched with solo, your group only has party MMR to worry about. It's a problem because party MMR is a joke and usually extremely undervalued (even if weighted slightly for team advantage). Solo MMR is the only thing that matters and why 8 0 0 0 MATCHMAKING POINTS meme also results in top ladder players being picked up on Tier 1 teams.

It's surprising to me that Riot is backing away from SQ so hard when it has
1) More players
2) Less server split
3) Less game mode split

I guess the queue time expectations are pushing them this far? I can understand their data driven approach to the game, but I wonder about other parts of the data that you can't directly measure (What about satisfaction/enjoyment vs not talking?)

I miss solo Q.

 

[zkylon]

client now notifies the lobby when people got s- or higher?

weird, hextech is not enabled in my region but this is def new

tho the games yesterday were pretty scrappy so i doubt anyone got higher than a

Killed Solo Q.

It's surprising to me that Riot is backing away from SQ so hard when it has
1) More players
2) Less server split
3) Less game mode split

I guess the queue time expectations are pushing them this far? I can understand their data driven approach to the game, but I wonder about other parts of the data that you can't directly measure (What about satisfaction/enjoyment vs not talking?)

I miss solo Q.

what do you mean satisfaction/enjoyment vs not talking?

i'm pretty sure most people prefer dynamic queue as it allows them to play with their friends and it is a rule of the universe that every game is more fun with friends

 

[kenbo]

I remember the first guy who got to Rank 1 on the NA Challenger Ladder (xPecake, known troll) was queuing up with 3 Challengers and a Diamond 5 account to get Diamond 5 - Low Masters players and stomp them.

Working as intended :^)

Yeh but this isn't even a problem for 99% of the ranked population

Everyone puts mid secondary because you have a higher chance to get your primary role if you do.

This leads to longer queue times for everyone since noone is filling the other roles. I'm a jungle main who supports pretty damn well but the moment I put support as my secondary, I will most likely get it. So I'm forced to put jungle/mid or jungle/top just so I can play the role I want to play instead of playing support 80% of the time.

It also places people who don't know how to mid into mid.

That probably hasn't been commented on that much but I've noticed that Mid is just a shit show now. You have people who don't play mid or know anything about the role against mid mains for more than 50% of games.

Mid has the most control over the map so games just lead to stomps and early surrenders if mid gets stomped and lose an early tower.

You want to know why you're getting 4 manned top or bot or you lose 2 drags before 20minutes? It's your mid's fault 90% of the time.

Yeah people gaming the system and picking mid secondaryare screwing it up for everybody causing more people to game the system with mid secondary etc

This knock on effect I'm not sure Riot has a solution for. It's definitely really challenging to change behaviours now that everybody is putting mid to

They need to add incentive outside of role selection to push the needle back the other way. That's a slippery slope though. For example if they offer more key fragments for low popularity roles, then people may choose those roles simply to get key fragments rather than because they actually secondary support

the real problem here is that riot suggested adding a solo q option as a way to getting rid of the backlash that dynamic queue got, and now is going back on their word

they should've just had the backbone back then to say "we made our point why we think solo q sux, deal with it"

it's a tricky situation, specially cos the dynamic queue experience isn't really a flat improvement. like, i've given up completely on playing solo or duo because my role is impossible to consistently get

they also removed ranked 5s and there's no solution for that and it just removed my favorite way of playing the game. dynamic 5s is not the same, it's taken a lot less seriously by everyone, it doesn't track any of your stats or let you use a team name or anything cool like that, it's not its own separate queue that makes you feel like you're growing as a team, we can't play together cos one of our friends is diamond and we have people in gold, etc.

so yeah, you dug this hole all by yourself rito, what can you say, it's understandable people is gonna be upset if they're deceived

Can people pls be more specific with language
Role selection = obvious
Dynamic queue = parties up to 5
New champ select = shiny pick and ban with new ban order

Will solo q stop me having 15 minutes q's in plat 1?

I hope so but the fragmentation makes me think not.

Maybe.
Less party sizes to account for but more fragmentation
Maybe they will remove role selection from solo queue and make it by pick order once again to deal with the reduced population

Killed Solo Q. If you mean the Solo MMR / Party MMR then if you solo you are using your solo, if you party queue and get matched with solo, your group only has party MMR to worry about. It's a problem because party MMR is a joke and usually extremely undervalued (even if weighted slightly for team advantage). Solo MMR is the only thing that matters and why 8 0 0 0 MATCHMAKING POINTS meme also results in top ladder players being picked up on Tier 1 teams.

It's surprising to me that Riot is backing away from SQ so hard when it has
1) More players
2) Less server split
3) Less game mode split

I guess the queue time expectations are pushing them this far? I can understand their data driven approach to the game, but I wonder about other parts of the data that you can't directly measure (What about satisfaction/enjoyment vs not talking?)

I miss solo Q.

They have more players, less server split and less game modes but there are a huge number of variables on team selection now.
Beyond Dota ones there's role choice and the need to assemble a full 5 position team and also matching team sizes

They didn't properly estimate the impact of role selector on queue times. The snowballing of people gaming the role selection has lead to a significant increase in queue time since nobody will fill

This means that fragmenting the population with solo queue might not just kill dynamic queue but also damage solo queue since people will game the system there

 

[Hazaro]

what do you mean satisfaction/enjoyment vs not talking?

i'm pretty sure most people prefer dynamic queue as it allows them to play with their friends and it is a rule of the universe that every game is more fun with friends

The included statistic in the post

we’ve seen the frequency at which ranked players encounter language serious enough to result in a chat restriction has dropped by nearly 40%.

The global 4v4 / 5v5 numbers are crazy good though imo

 

[kenbo]

I attribute increased friendliness due to role selection, and the fact that more people are in happy little parties

 

[Leezard]

Dynamic queue and new champ select has been great so far, it's a better experience than the old system. Less flaming and more people in a role they can play ensure that the games are of a higher quality than before.

In my mind the only issue right now is people that put mid secondary to try and game the system. You get these adc mains in mid lane who have no idea how the role works, despite that they have the chance to play Ezreal/Corki and not learn a new champion. "Any chance I can go adc?" in champ select usually means you're up for a bad time. Obviously this happens with other roles who try to game the system too.

I attribute increased friendliness due to role selection, and the fact that more people are in happy little parties

Yeah, that's very likely.

 

[Silent_Ocarina]

Dammmnnn, just played some Ranked with a group of four other friends. Got matched with this one team. It was a mostly normal game. Their Vayne wasn't doing so great until she got a triple kill because we were too greedy. Then comes the trash talk. Some shit about Billy Mays cleaning the scum off the face of the Earth. I'm guessing we were scum? Anyway, we ended up winning and of course some counter bm may have occurred.

It felt pretty nice until we got matched with them again and got our asses handed to us. This time the whole team trash talked the whole time. It was one of the more painful losses I've had, haha.

 

[zkylon]

Can people pls be more specific with language
Role selection = obvious
Dynamic queue = parties up to 5
New champ select = shiny pick and ban with new ban order

?

i never talked about role selection or new champ select :T

The included statistic in the post

The global 4v4 / 5v5 numbers are crazy good though imo

are you saying people are disatisfied but not being vocal about it?

that just sounds crazy to me haha

Dynamic queue and new champ select has been great so far, it's a better experience than the old system. Less flaming and more people in a role they can play ensure that the games are of a higher quality than before.

In my mind the only issue right now is people that put mid secondary to try and game the system. You get these adc mains in mid lane who have no idea how the role works, despite that they have the chance to play Ezreal/Corki and not learn a new champion. "Any chance I can go adc?" in champ select usually means you're up for a bad time. Obviously this happens with other roles who try to game the system too.

i'm just amazed at how riot didn't even think about this

like i remember me and my friends joking about it on day 1 they announced it

there's so many talented and smart people at riot, too bad they're all on the skins team :>

 

[Hazaro]

Well I guess dejected answers are better than tribunal worthy words, doesn't make much sense if I think about % does it. Zzz
*Like less toxic chat =/= more enjoyable matches

Yeh but this isn't even a problem for 99% of the ranked population

Yeah people gaming the system and picking mid secondaryare screwing it up for everybody causing more people to game the system with mid secondary etc

This knock on effect I'm not sure Riot has a solution for. It's definitely really challenging to change behaviours now that everybody is putting mid

They have more players, less server split and less game modes but there are a huge number of variables on team selection now.
Beyond Dota ones there's role choice and the need to assemble a full 5 position team and also matching team sizes

They didn't properly estimate the impact of role selector on queue times. The snowballing of people gaming the role selection has lead to a significant increase in queue time since nobody will fill

This means that fragmenting the population with solo queue might not just kill dynamic queue but also damage solo queue since people will game the system there

Ah, clicked in my head now. Yeah if a 4 man party always lacks a top or a jungler, etc. Do solo/duo supports limit queues (in relation to other group sizes and fills), Mids, etc.
Probably most worried of a snowballing limiting factor that gets worse over time.

Not as flexible where you can have 4 carries or 4 supports and still hit your win condition if everyone plays to strengths (ahahahahaha)

I attribute increased friendliness due to role selection, and the fact that more people are in happy little parties

I get the better overall picture better now. Makes more sense is a vast majority of it is party vs party. Dota-wise there's decent incentive to solo since solo MMR is what ranks you (like I mentioned).

Between the new stuff and Dota Majors / Update (you can toggle seeing Turret range/aggro and jungle spawn boxes now literally Leeg) I've been wanting to play mobas again.

 

[kenbo]

?

i never talked about role selection or new champ select :T


are you saying people are disatisfied but not being vocal about it?

that just sounds crazy to me haha


i'm just amazed at how riot didn't even think about this

like i remember me and my friends joking about it on day 1 they announced it

there's so many talented and smart people at riot, too bad they're all on the skins team :>

You said that the dynamic queue experience is not ideal cos you've given up getting your role

That's a role selector problem or new champ select w/e

 

[Blizzard]

Demotions are rough. The first time I ever got to a silver 3 promotion series, I got a free win. Well, I figured maybe I was above the expected elo and the system was being nice to me.

A few games later, I had 2-3 losses at 0 LP for an instant demotion. I guess I wasn't above the expected elo after all.

 

[zkylon]

You said that the dynamic queue experience is not ideal cos you've given up getting your role

That's a role selector problem or new champ select w/e

i'm not sure if separating stuff like that is really useful tho?

like dynamic queue and new champ select go together, and the problem is with the matchmaking tuning for not prioritizing ur primary and also for forcing you to support most of the times if you even dare to set it as secondary

blame it to whatever u want, the big deal about this was that i was getting mid more often in the previous q than this one

 

[Black-Wind]

PLayed 3 games today ... the only one I won was Mid Vi.

The early phase was actually pretty good against Talon, zoned him off of creeps with the FEAR of eating one of my Es. Completely turned around when he got a LS item and long sword. Couldn't pop him with the LS he had and I didn't know how to respond to that with items. Think it was a mistake going for completely the BC first. Got carried cause I got behind and couldn't get my dmg going.

Lost one game to a AP mid Raka ....

Lost my last cause I was a solo in a 4 man premade and the enemy team was a 4 man premade. We did great at first ... but my team kept dicking around, just going for kills over ending the game. Dicked around so long that the Jax I was killing no problem earlier became a solo team killing monster that even our fed Xin couldn't handle. We could have ended the game 3 times over by the hour mark but nope, Jax soloed our base after a clean ace.

I find it so very rare to eat a L and NOT be annoyed greatly by it. It's really the stupidity that gets to me. If I felt like we were simply out played and I had fun then that's one thing ... but being stumped because of silly stupid stuff from MY team just boils meh blood.

Anyway, really wanna try some top lane axe-man soon. Really want Miokia but I'm not sure if he's worth the IP ...Gnar really burned me. 6kip and I only like him when he's small ...

 

[Leezard]

i'm not sure if separating stuff like that is really useful tho?

like dynamic queue and new champ select go together, and the problem is with the matchmaking tuning for not prioritizing ur primary and also for forcing you to support most of the times if you even dare to set it as secondary

blame it to whatever u want, the big deal about this was that i was getting mid more often in the previous q than this one

I am expecting a hypothetical true solo queue to also have role selection and new champ select. Since we do not know if it's actually coming, it's just speculation of course. Are you expecting that if solo queue will come out, it will be without role selection?

 

[zkylon]

I am expecting a hypothetical true solo queue to also have role selection and new champ select. Since we do not know if it's actually coming, it's just speculation of course. Are you expecting that if solo queue will come out, it will be without role selection?

i'm guessing the idea is to also have new champion select/role selection, but they might have data that tells them the playerbase for that mode is not big enough to support it

but yeah i didn't mean role selection/new champ select was a thing that's exclusive to dynamic queue

speaking of champ select, it'd be nice if rito shifted bans to a more reactive doto style thing, make that part of the game more strategic. cos it's exactly as ghost says, by having all the bans happening on the beginning, most of the banning is just getting rid of ops rather than targeting specific strategies

 

[SuperBowser]

As someone who played 40% support, 30% mid and 30% ad carry, I've found the new queue a little frustrating. I'm now forced to play support 95% of my games. Outside support, I only play like 4 champions. As a "one trick pony" player, Mid is no longer viable because I typically played it as a counter lane (I only picked if if I saw the enemy mid/jungle or felt comfortable with my own team's composition). I don't enjoy AD carry games anymore because supports are largely awful in the new queue system. They don't ward/pressure appropriately and have painfully poor map awareness even though there's nothing else to concentrate on as support.

Positively, games are far less toxic and it's rare to have a game ruined by trolls in champion select. I just feel support players get heavily punished for this new system to work. I like support, but I don't want to be support all the time.

 

[Tizoc]

This has been my build path with zyra supp lately let me know what i should change up-
Rush support item
Get cooldown boots+ blue ward
Rush liandry then rylai maybe get sightstone inbetween
By endgame get seke if opposition has lots of ad and change up boots+get ruby sightstone

 

[Wolf Akela]

Sorc Shoes for supp Zyra.

 

[Tizoc]

Sorc Shoes for supp Zyra.

I would get that by late game cuz with liandry and masteries i have 30 magic pen

 

[jerd]

Why do you put off sightstone so long is that normal?

 

[Leezard]

speaking of champ select, it'd be nice if rito shifted bans to a more reactive doto style thing, make that part of the game more strategic. cos it's exactly as ghost says, by having all the bans happening on the beginning, most of the banning is just getting rid of ops rather than targeting specific strategies

I think that would be nice for competitive but I don't think that would help in pub games due to difficulties of getting randoms to agree on a specific strategies, and would only bring about more whining about how 2 or 3 ops are guaranteed to get through champ select.

I would get that by late game cuz with liandry and masteries i have 30 magic pen

See, that's the point. You want 46-50 magic pen to deal true damage to squishies (mid laners/adcs, even some junglers nowadays) even with their mr runes or if they go greedy runes without mr, even if there exist an aegis on the enemy team. When you deal true damage with all your spells, you're getting really scary. I've seen squishies on the enemy team build spectre's cowl when I'm the only source of magic damage on the team as support Zyra.

Don't wait that long with sightstone though, it's a necessary item.

 

[Tizoc]

Why do you put off sightstone so long is that normal?

Well with zyra she fan deal some good damage especiAlly in team fights
Rushing liandry just became 2nd nature to me :x

 

[kenbo]

As someone who played 40% support, 30% mid and 30% ad carry, I've found the new queue a little frustrating. I'm now forced to play support 95% of my games. Outside support, I only play like 4 champions. As a "one trick pony" player, Mid is no longer viable because I typically played it as a counter lane (I only picked if if I saw the enemy mid/jungle or felt comfortable with my own team's composition). I don't enjoy AD carry games anymore because supports are largely awful in the new queue system. They don't ward/pressure appropriately and have painfully poor map awareness even though there's nothing else to concentrate on as support.

Positively, games are far less toxic and it's rare to have a game ruined by trolls in champion select. I just feel support players get heavily punished for this new system to work. I like support, but I don't want to be support all the time.

cant you just queue ad/support then mid/ad alternating?

 

[kenbo]

Between the new stuff and Dota Majors / Update (you can toggle seeing Turret range/aggro and jungle spawn boxes now literally Leeg) I've been wanting to play mobas again.

league doesnt even show turret range

leeg harder than dota now

 

[Tizoc]

I think that would be nice for competitive but I don't think that would help in pub games due to difficulties of getting randoms to agree on a specific strategies, and would only bring about more whining about how 2 or 3 ops are guaranteed to get through champ select.


See, that's the point. You want 46-50 magic pen to deal true damage to squishies (mid laners/adcs, even some junglers nowadays) even with their mr runes or if they go greedy runes without mr, even if there exist an aegis on the enemy team. When you deal true damage with all your spells, you're getting really scary. I've seen squishies on the enemy team build spectre's cowl when I'm the only source of magic damage on the team as support Zyra.

Don't wait that long with sightstone though, it's a necessary item.

Thanks for the info ill def do this in my next games

 

[SuperBowser]

cant you just queue ad/support then mid/ad alternating?

If I put support as secondary, I am guaranteed to be support.
Before, I would play support if I thought my team would be fine at AD carry and Mid. Now, I don't get to make the choice, matchmaking does it for me by making me support 100% the time.

 

[Bacon]

league doesnt even show turret range

leeg harder than dota now

Wow dota is so casual

 

[Dreams-Visions]

league doesnt even show turret range

leeg harder than dota now

reddit stay so salty too

 

[Bungie's]

solo q not coming back makes sense. its a team game, riot wants you to play with friends, get your friends to play league, more $ for riot.

 

[patchday]

i'm just amazed at how riot didn't even think about this

like i remember me and my friends joking about it on day 1 they announced it

there's so many talented and smart people at riot, too bad they're all on the skins team :>

lol zyk.

And yeah that Leblanc art is cute

her design has really grown on me. Still missing that character

 

[garath]

.

I can understand wanting solo queue instead of dynamic. I really can. Your points, while not entirely valid imo, definitely indicate your preference. However, I don't understand the stubborn insistence that playing dynamic queue isn't worth one's time because it's not competitive enough. Instead you're doing what? Playing normals? The least competitive thing possible. Well I guess you could be playing Aram instead.

So many people here have said that dynamic queue has been a better experience if not on par with previous solo/duo queue. I can't think about anything that is actually WORSE than previous seasons to be honest.

I really don't know why you don't just give it a shot. Play for awhile, enjoy yourself in the best competitive environment league has to offer right now and then switch to solo queue if/when they release it. Maybe you'll find that some of your objections were more perception than reality. It sounds like you are good at the game and a competitive player at heart. You are really missing out.

 

[pigeon]

?

i never talked about role selection or new champ select :T


are you saying people are disatisfied but not being vocal about it?

that just sounds crazy to me haha


i'm just amazed at how riot didn't even think about this

like i remember me and my friends joking about it on day 1 they announced it

there's so many talented and smart people at riot, too bad they're all on the skins team :>

It sounds like they thought about it but didn't think people would actually do it.

As people have noted, if you put mid secondary to try to force your primary, there's a good chance you're terrible at mid. If those games are usually losses then in most situations it's negative expected value to game the system like that. People play ranked to climb, if putting mid secondary makes you fall then nobody will do it.

However, it seems like there's a tipping point where if ENOUGH people are gaming the system in the exact same way by putting mid then your odds of actually getting mid become so low that it is net positive or at least closer to even. Dodge management probably plays a role as well.

Riot probably didn't expect to hit the tipping point because it's like evolving wings, all the intervening points are just unproductive. They neglected to realize how good players are at coordinating on executing bad ideas.