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League of Legends |OT11| going
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
MrCookiepants
Member
lol, so tank Talon is a thing now.
I'm starting to see the problem here. It's not the fact that tanks are too strong - the itemization is to blame. Sunfire is broken. Iceborn is broken. Titanic Hydra is broken. Sterak's is broken.
Anything that gives you tankiness and damage doesn't belong in this game.
I'm starting to see the problem here. It's not the fact that tanks are too strong - the itemization is to blame. Sunfire is broken. Iceborn is broken. Titanic Hydra is broken. Sterak's is broken.
Anything that gives you tankiness and damage doesn't belong in this game.
yipes i think i've lost lane and game on my last 5 or 6 matches
gonna take a break when dark souls releases, i'm not like feeding horribly every game but i don't feel like i contribute anything and winning off other people's backs feels pretty sucky. mostly i think comes to me not being super into the game atm and not putting in the hours to be practiced enough to play at my level. probably gonna look into taking a more supporty role and just spamming lulu/lux games after i get back, to be a real carry u gotta be good at laning and that's just not me nowadays
gonna take a break when dark souls releases, i'm not like feeding horribly every game but i don't feel like i contribute anything and winning off other people's backs feels pretty sucky. mostly i think comes to me not being super into the game atm and not putting in the hours to be practiced enough to play at my level. probably gonna look into taking a more supporty role and just spamming lulu/lux games after i get back, to be a real carry u gotta be good at laning and that's just not me nowadays
Those items have been the problem all along and you just throw them on kits that they work with. I have no idea how tank talon would fit. Akali works because she just relentlessly sticks to people and has a ton of built in sustain. Talon doesn't have either of these. I don't doubt it can work since that item combo is so strong, I just doubt it could even be i the top 10 of priority picks in Top. No way it does anything that Akali can't do twice as well
I'm in that boat lately. Just playing bad. Gonna cut back to a couple of normals every few days until I'm feeling it again which could be anytime. Bought dragons dogma to fill the void but it's doing nothing for me so far :-/
Tizoc
Member
Man ive been thinking of tank talon for weeks now and some suckefs already beat me to it :/
Vincent Alexander
Member
I need to give in to the fact that I will always blow as an ADC. I've now tried:
Kog'Maw
Jinx
Vayne
Twitch
Tristana
I feel like a few more champs I've tried...but fuck it. Done with that position.
Kog'Maw
Jinx
Vayne
Twitch
Tristana
I feel like a few more champs I've tried...but fuck it. Done with that position.
MrCookiepants
Member
Talon has a lot of sticking power. You just don't notice it because he usually kills you in half a second.
Anyway, Valkrin played it on stream. He builds Iceborn and Sunfire and still assassinates the enemy carries. Yeah, Akali is probably better, but the fact that this works at all is ridiculous.
Troubled Bat
Member
Tank Talons popping up? Dammit. Just as I was thinking of using him.. Feck.
Black-Wind
Member
IDK if those items are "broken" so much as it being a case of the game evolving in a way that wasn't foreseen when all the champs had their kits made and their stats balanced and their Ts crossed and so on.
Like Juggernauts. They're a fair concept IMO, beastly strong champs that can kill people and are damn near unkillable unless focused down .. BUT they are melee, mostly immobile and lack hard CC so you just have to stay away from them and they can't pop their load on ya.
Problem is that something like that was introduced to the game ... so it's not a part of the foundation that all champs where built around. In order to make it work you would either have to change the stats of the Jugg Champs to make them tanky AND have dmg on the base level or make items for them that do that. Once you build items or change items for them to help them in their identity yoooou give Tank champs items that allow them to build tank and get DMG and on the flip side AD DMG champs now have items that can still add to their AD DMG but also allow them to be tankier than before. Champs who were never meant to use the items may have kits that synergize too well with them (like these "tank assassins" who can afford to build tanky cause their kits give them decent base DMG and good mobility or sustain) .
Then when everyone is a lil tankier the scum bags who play assassins get upset because now it's harder for them to 100 to 0 people. Then THEY get a AD item to help them and ... now champs who do AD DMG can use that item to help them kill champs closer to how an assassin would.
It's all a strange web of shit, IDK the game well enough to know the history behind these items and changes so I'm just talking out my ass I guess.
Currently I feel like ADC champs are too much of a focus now. They seem like the only type of champ that you simply HAVE to have because they're the best at taking objectives yet they can be played in any lane (hell, I'm starting to think it's a good idea to take Trist or Jinx mid to counter shit like Donger. I just faced 2 Dongers tonight as Diana and that shit's annoying, would love to counter pick him with a strong ranged champ who doesn't burn mana to pop his robots ...). How Graves and Quinn are allow to be things in this game is beyond me.
Anyway, last match today was wild ride.
Saw Leo top and Bear Sup and thought maybe they were gonna swap ... Nope, that's what they played. Donger was last pick on their side and the game was locked before I could dodge.
I put up with his shit, hold onto the mid lane and get some help to push down mid. But by then Jax has rage blade and once I get popped they burn through my towers and to my inhib in the blink of an eye. Tops in bad shape, they're group pushing mid, I'm thinking it's a game not in my favor.
They get our nexus to 1/3 health as I'm dead and I thought I should just sit there and let it happen ... but I decided to actually try to protect the base with the surviving members. I get out, pop off and ace them, we're back in the game. Leo spit pushes top as we're distracting them mid ... they didn't seem to care til she got to the inhib. Their Karma couldn't save their inhib so now we both have supers on the map.
We regroup, wait around dragon and make picks. We aced them, took bot towers and shit happens.
End with me and Leo being the only ones on our team alive, TPing to their base as they're aced. We take out the respawned Jax and take the nexus together.
Lovely ending.
Diana, truly my one blind pick champ. If someone doesn't pick Galio I feel like I can play against the avrg mid laner with her.
oh and overwatch is may?
yea feels like enough good stuff to keep me entertained
i think the mage rework will be a pretty big reason for me to get back into league but even if the meta's a lot better than it was a month or two ago the game's not doing much for me to the point i find myself barely playing it compared to the old days of like 4 games a day or something
yea feels like enough good stuff to keep me entertained
i'm at that rate atm, ~three nights a week, 2-3 games each session
i think the mage rework will be a pretty big reason for me to get back into league but even if the meta's a lot better than it was a month or two ago the game's not doing much for me to the point i find myself barely playing it compared to the old days of like 4 games a day or something
No they're definitely broken. Ibg gives you 40(45?) armor on combine on top of the aoe and increased dmg sheen passive. It's been pretty nuts for a while now.
I'll be curious to see how the mymu effects the meta since mr itemization is still pretty bad. That valkrin video is so weird though because the game was a blowout and he even says he started 0/2 so basically he was just stomping champs who were already behind. Plus a few games before that he went off with full ad jarvan so him saying that building damage isn't worthwhile is... Idk. Plus it took him 30 seconds to kill the sivir 1v1 at the beginning of the video while he was at least 3k+ gold ahead of her so I'm not sure I'd say he was still assassinating carries.
Basically an lcs caliber player doing well against high diamond players on a weird build doesn't mean that build is op. I even agree with his point as a whole, I just think that video is pretty deceptive.
Purple Cheeto
Member
As someone who has playing League of Legends since like 2009? 2008? It still weirds me out seeing things like Graves in the jungle. I remember when I first played there was almost no jungling, then eventually I got to the level where WW was played, then Rammus/Amumu/Nunu/Shaco/Fiddle. The worst things in the game were Eve and Twitch (because pink wards were expensive and no one I played with was smart enough to buy them) and if the other team had Tryndamere and you hadn't won by 40 minutes you weren't gonna win. Oh and Ryze could kill you at level 2 if he rune prisoned you. And ADCs went mid.
It also kind of feels like Riot hasn't had a lot of stability at design, like they just cycle through who is in charge of champion design every year or so. It does feel better than the days when it was just Guinsoo and Shurelia or whatever, so that's cool.
Looking back at a list of who was out in 2009, it is nice to see that 7 years later the bulk of these champs still get played in either solo or pro play. Although I can't remember the last time I saw anyone play Singed (lolking says he is currently the 7th least popular champ, ouch. His fellow old timer Karthus is 5th least).
Wolf Akela
Member
Are April Fools skins time restricted ala Harrowing? I wanna buy Meowkai.
i'm not sure but i think the only legacy skin is draven's
"Tank" X will never be a real thing unless they have cc or ridiculous base damages (hint: tank talon and akali, they're actually bruisers)
The fact that a bruiser talon can beat a Sivir is meaningless. Bruisers have always meant to be able to 1v1 carries because in team fights they can be peeled
The fact that a bruiser talon can beat a Sivir is meaningless. Bruisers have always meant to be able to 1v1 carries because in team fights they can be peeled
killatopak
Gold Member
maokai is just so amazing. Really loving him right now with grasp.
yeah, Not a fan of the juggernaut's introduction just because they seem half-assed ideas put together. It probably sounded much better as a concept, but now, you hardly see anyone being played apart from Darius, and its because he was a popular champ before his re-work
Juggernauts as a class are a great concept. They promote good gameplay and positioning. Playing against juggernauts should teach people how to think about a champions strengths and weaknesses but instead they just stand at melee range and face tank them and nobody peels them then people bitch because they killed me before I killed them but I'm an adc building full damage but they out damaged me it's not fair
Stone Ocean
Member
There's too much tankiness flying around right now in general, IMO. Steraks is horribly designed, resistances are too cheap and easy to get compared to how limited penetration is then you add stuff like Sunfire, IBG stickyness, super low cooldowns and a ton of passive damage mitigation on top of these bloody keystones that remove weaknesses from champions/doubles down on their strengths making them stupid and it's a mess.
I never thought I'd actually miss the Cinderhulk meta.
I never thought I'd actually miss the Cinderhulk meta.
Tizoc
Member
and boko asked if i was a fan of feversea
hahahhahahahaa
Those ears make no sense to me; do they protude from her head as some kind of skin+hair+fur hybrid?
Yes as they are Fox ears and anatomically speaking the ears would be there.
killatopak
Gold Member
Nah. It's more like they got nerfed so they got played less. I've been seeing a lot garen and skarner still in plat elo at least.
Morde on the other hand is wiped off the face of the earth.
Tizoc
Member
but what if she also has HUMAN ears too?
More kiting for the people.
No-one is complaining about juggernauts right now, since juggernauts are mostly shit. People are complaining about pure tanks like Poppy and Naut who are completely bullshit.
I was responding to the post above me complaining about juggernauts
Poppy is my least favorite champ in the game now though and if there is a tank that you can make a case for not needing much damage to still be effective naut is high on that list but I've talked about how much I dislike both of those champs before
Sure but holy shit she's strong. Hopefully the nerfs bring her back down to earth
Stone Ocean
Member
i dont think hes talking about juggernauts right now
faridmonster is complaining about the IDEA of juggernauts
ps kogmaw is god
yeah she fun shes cute she also has way too much utility and damage
killatopak
Gold Member
The problem with tanks today are those that build FULL tank yet deals a ton of damage. Poppy is one of those. I can see it on juggernauts where they still have to build at least one damage item but it's completely nuts on a complete tank champ.
Yes. It's what tanks rely on for damage. I'm reluctant to include sunfire but it's probably one of the most abused items.
sure, a tank should still be a valid damage threat, but not to the extent they currently are with half the items they build now providing damage in addition to defense
Stone Ocean
Member
And that's the problem. That's what a bruiser does, not a tank filled to the brim with CC.
Tanks right now have a massive identity crisis, just like in the Cinderhulk meta. They're basically super bruisers, tanky assholes that bruisers can't deal with in lane but at the same time become extremely hard to kill while soloing glass cannons on top of their utility. They're supposed to trade off damage for utility but then they just... don't.
A perfect tank paradigm would be Leona, but then people want tanks to go anywhere else but bot lane so you have to give them tools to jungle and lane and here we are.
You mean IBG?
because tanks dont build steraks
On paper, they definitely do less damage than bruisers and have less mobility so I'm not sure what you're getting at? Bruisers are essentially 'anti-carries' - the difference between a bruiser and a tank is their ability to quickly reach the back line and kill them 1v1 if you ignore them. (compare nautilus vs jarvan). Tanks shouldn't be able to do this - their abilities are meant to be shorter ranged (but dat poppy stun range) or blockable.
full tanks aren't a great design and wont ever become a full 'class' in leeg. leona will forever be the only full tank
in terms of design cost, lowering 'tanks' damage to make them 'full tanks' will mean that in general, they'll gain tankiness - which in turn makes ''tanks' simply a huge ball of defensive stats with CC windows. It'd like if they all are alistar with permanent ult on.
This will only make team fights longer and more one dimensional
certain items and certain champions might be a little strong right now, but I really dont see an issue with a tank being able to threaten people. Tanks need to be able to initiate, they need to be able to soak and outside of their initiate, soaking is pointless if they do no damage.
If people are mad about tanks they should be mad about the real problem, which is that Bork is so bad right now and LW is still not really good enough to buy. There are supposed to be specific anti-tank items, but they got hugely nerfed during preseason.
They need to decide whether Bork is supposed to be for ADCs (in which case slap some crit on it) or AD bruisers (in which case do something else). Probably the former because they already went around buffing all the bruisers who used to build Bork.
They need to decide whether Bork is supposed to be for ADCs (in which case slap some crit on it) or AD bruisers (in which case do something else). Probably the former because they already went around buffing all the bruisers who used to build Bork.
LW is amazing, its just purely a multiplier item now so you cant get it 2nd item and hence tanks that snowball can't be dealt with until mid-late game by your ADC
it also doesn't help that AP damage is down overall so tanks just build armor
if mages were more popular it would be a different story
I dont think riot are happy with botrk being a stat strong item/general buy item. their balancing seems to imply that shiv/runans/cannon to be the AS% choice and their preference is for people who either utilise the active well or synergise particularly with the passive to use it only. if it were stronger, champions like kogmaw would be off the hook.
besides, botrk was never that good against tanks anyway.
it also doesn't help that AP damage is down overall so tanks just build armor
if mages were more popular it would be a different story
I dont think riot are happy with botrk being a stat strong item/general buy item. their balancing seems to imply that shiv/runans/cannon to be the AS% choice and their preference is for people who either utilise the active well or synergise particularly with the passive to use it only. if it were stronger, champions like kogmaw would be off the hook.
besides, botrk was never that good against tanks anyway.
Dreams-Visions
Member
YOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOLY SHIT.
https://twitter.com/SkyWilliams/status/716856650338930688
https://twitter.com/SkyWilliams/status/716856650338930688
and lol @ Sky
https://twitter.com/SkyWilliams/status/716856650338930688
https://twitter.com/SkyWilliams/status/716856650338930688
and lol @ Sky