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League of Legends |OT11| going

Quonny

Member
Fiddle is going to be incredibly annoying with that new passive. Fuck the ult. The drain mang.

He can now drain and chase you down. Or drain and run away. Plus throw in the new cooldown and the dude can drain for 1.5 seconds, then 3 seconds later drain again. And if you have CDR? Forget about it. Drains and kites for days.
 

garath

Member
Fiddle is going to be incredibly annoying with that new passive. Fuck the ult. The drain mang.

He can now drain and chase you down. Or drain and run away. Plus throw in the new cooldown and the dude can drain for 1.5 seconds, then 3 seconds later drain again. And if you have CDR? Forget about it. Drains and kites for days.

I know right? I like fiddle jungle. Going to play that again for sure.
 

Tizoc

Member
Nu Taric is awesome. He consumes mana like crazy though.
Also his passive grants him up to 1.5 atk speed heyoooooo
 

Leezard

Member
So I just got lane swapped on.

I know how to play against. I succinctly type up instructions for the team.

I tell my nasus to max E to wave clear. He doesn't do it. He gets dived. He dies. I get invaded by 3 people. I die. He tps into 3 people. He dies again.

My mf and braum get bot tower. I tell her to go top now to prevent their bot from getting top.

She tells me to go fuck myself.

My mf and braum go back bot to freeze the wave while they 4 man push top.

My mid leaves mid to 3 man gank the gnar at bot. We lose mid.

We're now down 5 turrets 10minutes in


Fucking pulling my hair out.

Getting laneswapped on sucks in DQ. It's okay if both teams know what they are doing but when the enemy team planned their team comp around it and know how to do it better it's so infuriating.
 

Talents

Banned
most of all

zhonyas.jpg


thank the rito lords for finally a not terrible build path

Why are they lowering the AP on it even more? It's almost at half the AP that it originally gave... Also why are Riot suddenly having CDR erections and putting it on all the new AP items?
 

Tizoc

Member
Tankali is some BS.

Why are they lowering the AP on it even more? It's almost at half the AP that it originally gave... Also why are Riot suddenly having CDR erections and putting it on all the new AP items?

So we can land Rumble ults every 1 minute~
 
Why are they lowering the AP on it even more? It's almost at half the AP that it originally gave... Also why are Riot suddenly having CDR erections and putting it on all the new AP items?

To position it as an item you buy for the utility (not getting blown up) instead of also getting damage? I assume by making it cheaper and toning down the stats they want to make it more of a trade off and maybe not ideal in a full-damage build for lategame or something. As to CDR, I couldn't tell you.
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
My main issue with the item update is that they've just lowered ap across the board with no new big items to make up for it, and they nerfed the zhonya active hard because I guess we can't go two patches with zed having a less then 60% winrate, rip qss as well

To position it as an item you buy for the utility (not getting blown up) instead of also getting damage? I assume by making it cheaper and toning down the stats they want to make it more of a trade off and maybe not ideal in a full-damage build for lategame or something. As to CDR, I couldn't tell you.
That would make sense if they hadn't gutted the cool down for the active
 

Ferga

Member
Nothing like finishing off a 4 game tilt fest with a game of "farm for 20mins and ff"


First time in ages where all 3 lanes lose without enemy jungle pressure. Don't think the enemy jungler left their own jungle until the 10minute mark.
 
Tankali is some BS.



So we can land Rumble ults every 1 minute~

Abyssal and Zhonya changes makes me happy to play Rumble, especially now his Q does full damage to minions. Just a shame the only other CDR item that doesn't give mana or mana regen is Hextech Rocketbell and that is a piece of shit item, so it's hard to reach 40% CDR without dipping into cooldown reduction runes and going with CDR boots.

My main issue with the item update is that they've just lowered ap across the board with no new big items to make up for it, and they nerfed the zhonya active hard because I guess we can't go two patches with zed having a less then 60% winrate, rip qss as well

Assassins have a lot more problems they are dealing with and QSS/Zhonya nerfs will only slightly improve the situation. It doesn't help that the majority of the new champions and rework (Tahm, Kindred, Bard, Taric) as well as Lissandra, Lulu and Exhaust will still fuck Zed over.

They'll be in a slightly better, but completely shitty situations.
 

pigeon

Banned
Oh yeah, I didn't get a chance to look at item changes. I told you moving Devourer passive to lane would be good for the game! I didn't see the uniqueing of Sterak's and Maw, though, that was pretty smart.
 
Oh yeah, I didn't get a chance to look at item changes. I told you moving Devourer passive to lane would be good for the game! I didn't see the uniqueing of Sterak's and Maw, though, that was pretty smart.

I'm looking forward to the return of Top Lane Jax. Cause I fucking hate it when people pick Jax Jungle.

It's a piece of shit, only justified by his synergy with devourer. In fact, I'm glad devourer is gone, so junglers don't suicide over stacks.
 

kenbo

Member
Man the vfx on brand passive is incredible

Feels amazing

It does a shit ton of damage though I dunno if this is ok

Zyra seems really good too
That huge move speed is going to break her
 

Newt

Member
I think the QSS nerfs are bullshit. It's fine if it doesn't work on Fiora, but not Zed.


Get ready for Zed getting the Kass treatment.
 
I think the QSS nerfs are bullshit. It's fine if it doesn't work on Fiora, but not Zed.

There are so many champions that are meta and completely shit on Zed or have the tools to shut down Zed from getting kills on the carries.

The QSS 'nerf' helps Zed, who was struggling enough as it is along with a lot of assassins. Assassins are still in a shit place still and it won't change much until the Assassin reworks come.

For fuck sake people, just play smart and pick champions to counter them. Don't complain if you're picking the same champion you like or play constantly that is shit at dealing with Zed or assassins in general. Counter picks exist for a reason.
 

Newt

Member
There are so many champions that are meta and completely shit on Zed or have the tools to shut down Zed from getting kills on the carries.

The QSS 'nerf' helps Zed, who was struggling enough as it is along with a lot of assassins. Assassins are still in a shit place still and it won't change much until the Assassin reworks come.

For fuck sake people, just play smart and pick champions to counter them. Don't complain if you're picking the same champion you like or play constantly that is shit at dealing with Zed or assassins in general. Counter picks exist for a reason.
Great, I'll just direct myself to nearest ADC counterpick to Zed...Urgot.

Your argument makes no sense.
 
....fight Zed after he's popped his ulti? I mean, if you as ADC are the only one Zed is aiming for, then your mid/jungler/top has failed your team.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
QSS nerf is dumb unless there are nerfs to Zed to compensate

that is all

Though we are in a tank meta so maybe it won't be too bad
 
ADCs aren't varied enough to actually counterpick assassins nor is picking Sivir/Urgot every time you see a Zed realistic unless you want to get counter counter picked and fucked in lane.

Meanwhile mid laners get to pick accordingly since they will face Zed directly and they get Zhonya's on top of being able to take Exhaust. Oh, and surely it's fine for Zed to ignore ults like Syndra's with Hexdrinker, wouldn't want people being able to use their ults now!

Wanna make it so QSS doesn't work on Death Mark? Fine, then enjoy Zed being deleted from the game through nerfs.
 

Leezard

Member
It's easy to say that you should position better against Zed or whatever, but he really has no problems reaching any backline between Ghostblade and W. QE is enough to bring an adc below half health and then the death mark will proc for more than half.

You'd need Lulu or Tahm Kench and whatever to deal with him now. Bard ult kinda works too I guess.
 
It's easy to say that you should position better against Zed or whatever, but he really has no problems reaching any backline between Ghostblade and W. QE is enough to bring an adc below half health and then the death mark will proc for more than half.

You'd need Lulu or Tahm Kench and whatever to deal with him now. Bard ult kinda works too I guess.

I obviously mean just sit in base till Zed uses his ult, then you can freely play
 

clemenx

Banned
Calm down, they must balance these ultimates accordingly now that there's no debuff removal. Even Riot isn't as dumb as to remove something so integral to so many champions and matchups and leave everything it affects untouched.
Or so I hope lol.

We can't only hope it won't take like 5 different patches.
 

Envelope

sealed with a kiss
Calm down, they must balance these ultimates accordingly now that there's no debuff removal. Even Riot isn't as dumb as to remove something so integral to so many champions and matchups and leave everything it affects untouched.
Or so I hope lol.

We can't only hope it won't take like 5 different patches.

sure, in a few months after they "assess" the changes
 

pigeon

Banned
Second pass on the changes now that ff@20 is done updating.

I think the Annie changes are actually pretty interesting because it gives her two slightly different patterns maybe? You can still flash ult for a big AoE stun, but if you're against one person or can get really close, if you can ult to get stun up and THEN stun with Q or W she immediately gets Tibbers enrage while you're stunned. I think this will matter in lane.

I like the Swain Q change a lot, gives him two area drops to control space. E still basically a dumb, ugly ability. At the very least put a big particle effect on the guy with E on them since everything cares about it so much. I think the R is heavily nerfed though? 1 second cooldown on ravens attacking the same target seems pretty serious for the circumstances in which R is most commonly used.

I'm so glad the dumb enemy AP ratio on Veigar's ult is gone.

I recall proposing Ziggs getting a way to execute towers but I ultimately said it was a bad idea because Ziggs is already frustrating to lane against and letting him splitpush down towers quickly would make him even more oppressive since you wouldn't even be able to leave. I guess we'll see?

OMG boot enchants removed. That is surprising. I guess Homeguards really were the only thing anybody needed.

I am pretty interested in the Rift Herald superbuff. Feel like it gives even more priority to top lane splitpushers, which I am not sure is that great because nonstop splitpushing is kind of a boring strategy.

Glad they are trying to find a way to prevent bot lane taking a camp, and glad they are buffing turrets and reducing turret gold.

Lol random huge Kennen buff, lol random Teemo shroom buff.

Abyssal being flat -MR makes more sense except in the sense that, as already discussed, flat pen is a stupid unclear stat since it does not do what you intuitively expect "penetration" to do. Should just call it "brutality" or something.

QSS change read as really surprising to me, but makes sense in the context of Repertoir's post -- QSS creates balance problems if it hard counters Zed too well. They basically said that they need to nerf Zed and Fiora more now, so hopefully they will actually do so. Also kind of hangs a lampshade on the problems with stealth and pink wards which have the same issue.

Lol CDR on Warmog's. This new thing where everybody has 40% CDR is going to be...interesting I guess. Seems like a dumb stat if it's so good you need to put it in literally everybody's itemization path, maybe just lower CDs and get rid of it.
 

drawkcaB

Member
Just because I'm bored in a meeting and feel like participating in a discussion I'm not familiar with:

How does banshees enter the equation? It'll block one of Zed's spells. Optimal case the Zed fucks up and blows his ult on the spell shield, worst case he blows a round of his Q, which is actually a considerable amount of damage. Better tank stats than QSS, although you lose the damage stats on Scimitar and an incomplete Banshee's is mostly bad on ADCs.
 
Just because I'm bored in a meeting and feel like participating in a discussion I'm not familiar with:

How does banshees enter the equation? It'll block one of Zed's spells. Optimal case the Zed fucks up and blows his ult on the spell shield, worst case he blows a round of his Q, which is actually a considerable amount of damage. Better tank stats than QSS, although you lose the damage stats on Scimitar and an incomplete Banshee's is mostly bad on ADCs.

Banshees is bad. A well placed fart could remove Banshees, and then Zed can jump in and herp derp his way to victory.
 

pigeon

Banned
Just because I'm bored in a meeting and feel like participating in a discussion I'm not familiar with:

How does banshees enter the equation? It'll block one of Zed's spells. Optimal case the Zed fucks up and blows his ult on the spell shield, worst case he blows a round of his Q, which is actually a considerable amount of damage. Better tank stats than QSS, although you lose the damage stats on Scimitar and an incomplete Banshee's is mostly bad on ADCs.

Banshee helps protect you (a little) in a pick situation but my observation is that it does nothing in a teamfight situation because inevitably somebody will catch you with a tiny poke and break the shield. So I think helps a little against Zed but not so much that I would want to build it on an ADC, because as an ADC I probably want to be in a teamfight situation all the time.
 
Just because I'm bored in a meeting and feel like participating in a discussion I'm not familiar with:

How does banshees enter the equation? It'll block one of Zed's spells. Optimal case the Zed fucks up and blows his ult on the spell shield, worst case he blows a round of his Q, which is actually a considerable amount of damage. Better tank stats than QSS, although you lose the damage stats on Scimitar and an incomplete Banshee's is mostly bad on ADCs.
Completely meaningless between a combination of CDR, his ult and Thunderlords. Zed has no trouble popping Banshee's then killing you anyways because his damage is balanced around his ult being counterable. He does not need all of his abilities to turn an R press into a kill.
 
They should just add like 10% cdr to AAs. Seems like a better fit for cdr than zhonyas.

Vel - Idk how I feel about it after thinking on it. You gotta hope the team is more clumped up now since ult won't apply passive. But potential to do true damage with it, 1.0 ap ratio, ap ratio on passive I'm sure I can get used to it. Doesn't seem like they really did anything to stop the "w lane and play passive" playstyle. Which was my favorite.

Im thinking his items would be the same? Maybe a slightly earlier dcap though.

QSS - lol @ adc mains. Hopefully zed becomes perma ban status

Zhonyas - Most the time was 5th or 6th item for me. Was rushed wn going against zed. Porbably won't bother with it until late now, if at all.

Boot enchantmenet removal - I don't really like it. Helps a lot on mid ap kog. Guess I'll rock 3 ms quints instead of 2 for my mages now.
 

Blizzard

Banned
So I just got lane swapped on.

I know how to play against. I succinctly type up instructions for the team.
It seems that in both silver and diamond, trying to give instructions usually ends up actually hurting your team. You thought you knew best, your teammates thought THEY knew best, and one of you trying to gain the dominant position ends up producing tilt, anger, and personality clashes.

I -think- the optimal way is to be quiet, not mass-spam pings (no more than 1-2 at a time), and work with/around the team, but sometimes you can get lucky and a text message will work.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
the thing about qss is that as it stands it's a bad defensive item because of how ubiquitous it is. the game's at a point where you buy the item regardless of the enemy team having cc, zed or fiora, adcs just buy it every game because cleanse and a bunch of ad and lifesteal why the hell not!

and that's not how defensive itemization works, defense items are meant to be reactive and very game dependant

if you don't, then basically the game's balanced around "well at the 25m mark every adc has cleanse" so balanced will start being balanced around that. that's always been the issue with aegis, when it was first buy support every game the reality of the game was that teams at the 20m mark or whatever just had 20 more mr

so now they're saying ok qss is the item you build when enemy team has ashe, malzahar, leona, whatever. it's an anti-cc defensive item, not an anti assassin item. and it's also important cos the champions that are countered by qss right now like fiora and zed have their special effects completely nullified by a single item, while cc is a thing that can usually be applied by multiple champions in the same team, often by multiple abilities on the same champion. as lizzy if you don't space out w and ult the enemy adc can just bluff and qss your second ability, but if you try and call the bluff they might just away. that creates gameplay vs the zed thing of ok he ulted you ok no he didn't

and zed and trundle (i don't say fiora cos she's been olafed afaik) will have to be balanced around this brave new qssless world, but that's a good thing because those champions' are kind of dumb. similarly maybe it's time to buff ga again, or whatever. i think countering assassins should be a more team thing than build thing anyways so i think this is a good direction for the balance of these classes

note: zhonyas is also at fault for making champs like zed useless but it's getting its cooldown heavily nerfed and even when it wasn't stupid expensive like it is right now it never was as popular as qss is right now with adcs. the stats are good but mages don't tend to want resistances too much as they don't have the healthpools to make good use of the armor and also the active has enough risks that it's acceptable

but zhonyas might have to be looked into too, specially since it now gives cdr which makes it a much better bundle of stats than before.

edit: someone pls read this post i spent all my commute to work thinking about it lol

guinsoo is gonna be so broken on 6.9.
it's a big nerf to it, at least on ranged champions since it'll synergize worse with hurricane thanks to the aoe stuff going away

the build path part is an upgrade but tbh balancing items around awful build paths is dumb so it's a necessary change

Oooooh Sterak's and Maw shield are now the same unique passive so you can't have both, noceeee
that's really big and really appreciated

Why are they lowering the AP on it even more? It's almost at half the AP that it originally gave... Also why are Riot suddenly having CDR erections and putting it on all the new AP items?
sometimes i feel like you just wanna get mad at riot for everything

like, just think about it for a second and it'll be pretty obvious. cdr is a stat that all mids love. more spells = more dmg, more cc, more utility, etc. as a mage you live and die by your spells being off cooldown, so naturally you want as much as possible. tanks get a lot of cdr off building normal items, supports have cdr in like every item, adcs that use cdr can opt into a ton of it with essence reaver, etc.

all mids run cdr/lvl blues all the time. other classes don't do this because they have natural access through items to 40% cdr, while mages have 20% and then blue buff/lucidty but those two aren't ideal. (you could also do double morellos sometimes but they've made the cdr on it unique so that's dead)

so now you can get ap/lvl blues, flat mr, etc.

also lowering the ap on zhonyas just makes sense cos it's supposed to be a defensive item. it only had high ap to push tanks away from it but building out of fiendish codex achieves pretty much the same thing and makes more sense for you as well as makes it more affordable.

you don't build zhonyas for dmg, you build it to survive zed. lower cost, easier build path and cdr as well as still being a good chunk of ap (70 is not a ton but it's a good number) are all buffs to the item's use case

My main issue with the item update is that they've just lowered ap across the board with no new big items to make up for it, and they nerfed the zhonya active hard because I guess we can't go two patches with zed having a less then 60% winrate, rip qss as well
do you even know what the mid meta is right now?

they nerfed roa and abyssal really hard, specially on "i just wanna survive lane" champions and they gave morellos 100 ap

That would make sense if they hadn't gutted the cool down for the active
? it's not gutted, it's a super strong active (probably the strongest active in the game) that now has a reasonable cooldown that leaves a small window for your opponent to exploit vs no window

now trading zed ult for zhonyas means that you gotta play safe when there's still 30s on your zhonyas timer
 

Blizzard

Banned
I feel like one of the annoying things about Zed's ult is how hard it is to punish. Unless you have a team with strong, fast CC chains, Zed can do the Ekko thing of doing damage and instantly teleporting far away.
 

drawkcaB

Member
Taric seems really strong.

It also feels like he's doing the whole aura support schtick better than Sona.

Yeah, keeping an eye on him myself once I start playing more support.

Lots of really nice buffs that I didn't catch last night:
10% CDR in warmogs
Straight damage buffs to Cinderhulk
Awesome buffs to Righteous Glory
 
I feel like one of the annoying things about Zed's ult is how hard it is to punish. Unless you have a team with strong, fast CC chains, Zed can do the Ekko thing of doing damage and instantly teleporting far away.

It's hard to punish if you're behind. If you're ahead, Zed has a tougher time dealing enough damage to land the killing blow (in my experience). In that case, he's generally blown most of his mobility cooldowns just to close the gap.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
I feel like one of the annoying things about Zed's ult is how hard it is to punish. Unless you have a team with strong, fast CC chains, Zed can do the Ekko thing of doing damage and instantly teleporting far away.

that's the thing, you don't counter zed by killing him, you deal with him by protecting who's he giong at

there's a ton of champions and abilities for you to counter zed

kayle, lulu, tk, zilean, kindred, soraka, bard, new taric (maybe), and then there's a lot of ppl that can help deal with him like ori, lux, janna or just outright insta point and click cc him (lizzy, malz, maokai). there's the shield from locket and from relic shield line, there's the heal from mikaels and the new heals from athenes, adcs still have steraks and ga and bt shield and heal spell, mids have zhonyas and barrier

that's the way the game has been shifting towards dealing with assassins, you gotta protect carries and that's a team effort, not just buy one item solution

i feel that direction is def gonna be better than like two seasons ago when it was ilke ok everybody on enemy team bought banshees so i guess as lebonk i'm now useless i guess i didn't win fast enough

now there'll still be an element of that as defensive stuff piles up, but i feel it's healthier this way for both assassins and the rest of the classes. this is not that huge of a change since it only affects a couple of champions but i appreciate the idea

and champions will get balanced around the new landscape so it's not like zed is gonna be impossible to deal with

at least that's what i hope, i had to deal with this zhonyas crap for half a season -__-
 
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