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[Leezard]

Welp, today's S+.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2091993177/42941535/eog

feels like fucking SHIT. One day I'll figure out how to carry with Jayce. I got quadra kills (more than once), I took all the inhibs and T3's we ever got, by myself. I solo defended the Nexus 1v3. Some of my team even contributed some damage unlike my S+ teemo game. And yet somehow I still felt completely alone. If I wasn't at a fight, they'd get wiped maybe 4-1. If I was at a fight, I was often the sole survivor.

something zed something something useless late game something.

I'm getting too old for this shit. Any suggestions on what I perhaps could have done better? All ears. FWIW I was bored so I decided to experiment with the lifesteal and LW. Both actually felt really good against their armor. The Dance felt really nice given how long fights would last. Definitely saved me a few times.

To me it looks mainly like a team comp problem; your team kinda wants to siege/poke while Zed split pushes since their team fighting is superior. The issue is that Zed probably can't 1v1 anyone in the enemy team; Vlad has Zhonyas and Riven can cc and overpower him. It gets even harder since Trist has Mercurial, so Zed essentially has no assassination targets in the enemy team.

Issue number two is that the enemy team has a proper engage in Wukong, while your team does not have a good disengage. So, if you try to play to your team's strength and siege, they have a good tool to break the siege. Your team cannot really compare in damage output/tankiness in a real team fight, so unless your team was ahead already it gets really hard.

Since it seems that you snowballed hard and did well, I think the main thing you could have done better was to try to get objectives finish the game earlier while your gold advantage meant more; once you reach 6 items you won't get stronger and your gold advantage starts meaning little. Whether it is possible to finish the game earlier depends on your shot calling and whether your team follows you, though.

 

[jerd]

Does Zed have a passive where he can never go over 200 cs no matter how long the game is idk bc i don't play him

 

[Ferga]

Been in queue for 15minutes now

Solo queue too.

Edit: 25minutes now

I'm out. GG.

game cant handle me

 

[Dreams-Visions]

To me it looks mainly like a team comp problem; your team kinda wants to siege/poke while Zed split pushes since their team fighting is superior. The issue is that Zed probably can't 1v1 anyone in the enemy team; Vlad has Zhonyas and Riven can cc and overpower him. It gets even harder since Trist has Mercurial, so Zed essentially has no assassination targets in the enemy team.

Issue number two is that the enemy team has a proper engage in Wukong, while your team does not have a good disengage. So, if you try to play to your team's strength and siege, they have a good tool to break the siege. Your team cannot really compare in damage output/tankiness in a real team fight, so unless your team was ahead already it gets really hard.

Since it seems that you snowballed hard and did well, I think the main thing you could have done better was to try to get objectives finish the game earlier while your gold advantage meant more; once you reach 6 items you won't get stronger and your gold advantage starts meaning little. Whether it is possible to finish the game earlier depends on your shot calling and whether your team follows you, though.

word.

yea, like i said I was split pushing really hard. I got the top inhib solo, then rotated bottom and got that inhib in a trade for my life. I don't remember what we did when we had both of their side inhibs down at the same time but needless to say, ending the game wasn't one of those things. I think we went to drag and everyone but me died or something. idk. but yea, I probably should have ordered them down mid when we had their 2 side inhibs.

CDR build with no mana to mae use of it? Where is Manamune?
Edit: team comp isn't great either IMO.

I don't like stacking so I don't buy it. Damage clearly isn't my issue, nor was mana actually. Jayce doesn't need Manamune anymore. Buy it if you like it. otherwise, nope. Essence Reaver is enough and your damage can come online earlier.

 

[garath]

I really have no idea what point he's trying to make or what "case" he's suggesting 0.6k worth of Ignite damage helps or hurts.

I guess I'll just continue waiting for him (or anyone) to post an S+ ADC effort. I just want to see what the cs, total damage, and other stats look like. Until then, I'll continue to believe that being at or around 200cs in 20-25 minutes is part of the target. Which is probably why they aren't handed out like candy.

But again, all conjecture until we can all see a few examples.

Just to help the discussion, this was an S+ adc effort. Op.gg puts my MMR around silver 1 for that game. It was in the middle of my placements so no way to say for sure.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2088628521/42766588?tab=overview

Kills aren't through the roof, nor is the CS for the game time. Damage is good. Didn't buy a blue trinket or pink ward all game. Warded a decent amount though.

The game felt great though. Felt like I played very well.

 

[Hard]

Does Zed have a passive where he can never go over 200 cs no matter how long the game is idk bc i don't play him

Zed is actually one of the easier champs to CS with because of his passive that does bonus damage to low health minions. The problem I see with a lot of assassins is that at some point they start hunting for kills and forgetting to farm.

 

[TheFlow]

went mid with lux but forgot I had smite...I carried the game. Bot was getting rekted so I roam bot... I gave jinx two Quadras before 30 mins in.

 

[Hydrophobic]

Does Zed have a passive where he can never go over 200 cs no matter how long the game is idk bc i don't play him

Zed's passive makes last hitting something like 'Last hitting for babies who aren't very good' in my opinion. Zed is one of the heroes that I have the easiest time last hitting with and clearing waves is not that bad. If you see a Zed with 120 CS at 40 minutes, it's because they forgot to kill minions.

 

[Arthrus]

What were the changes that pumped up Udyr's win rate so much?

 

[Mostmanlyman]

Zed's passive makes last hitting something like 'Last hitting for babies who aren't very good' in my opinion. Zed is one of the heroes that I have the easiest time last hitting with and clearing waves is not that bad. If you see a Zed with 120 CS at 40 minutes, it's because they forgot to kill minions.

Yeah he is one if the easy champs to farm with.

What were the changes that pumped up Udyr's win rate so much?

Ruinc echos and movement speed items being super easy and good to get.

 

[NecromorphTX]

Champion and skin sale 2/9 - 2/12: https://youtu.be/__NVNzKJwnQ

 

[Talents]

Champion and skin sale 2/9 - 2/12: https://youtu.be/__NVNzKJwnQ

Fuck. Was hoping Yasuo and Viktor would be on sale this week for my smurf. Feels bat man.

 

[TheFlow]

Guys I got a sona support...this is going to end in a lose. there goes my 7 game winning streak and silver promotion.

 

[Black-Wind]

To me it looks mainly like a team comp problem; your team kinda wants to siege/poke while Zed split pushes since their team fighting is superior. The issue is that Zed probably can't 1v1 anyone in the enemy team; Vlad has Zhonyas and Riven can cc and overpower him. It gets even harder since Trist has Mercurial, so Zed essentially has no assassination targets in the enemy team.

Issue number two is that the enemy team has a proper engage in Wukong, while your team does not have a good disengage. So, if you try to play to your team's strength and siege, they have a good tool to break the siege. Your team cannot really compare in damage output/tankiness in a real team fight, so unless your team was ahead already it gets really hard.

Since it seems that you snowballed hard and did well, I think the main thing you could have done better was to try to get objectives finish the game earlier while your gold advantage meant more; once you reach 6 items you won't get stronger and your gold advantage starts meaning little. Whether it is possible to finish the game earlier depends on your shot calling and whether your team follows you, though.

Yeah, this.

Starting to really think about team comp cause playing Diana has shown me just how important it is to have a good engage champ on your team. Cause it doesn't matter how snowballed you get, if you don't have someone who can start a fight then starting fights on your terms becomes extra hard. So it's better to split push and help your team that way.

Tried to do Wukong Mid last night cause our team didn't have any tankyness or engage and someone bitched out at me but wouldn't tell me why I shouldn't use him. Lucky someone on the enemy team dodged so I didn't have to.

I get pretty satisfied about S-

Im surprised people get annoyed that they dont get S+

Not annoyed, just confused. Felt like I had what was close to being the best game I could in that match so wasn't sure how one gets S+ instead of S.

More CS? I pushed to their base and before that their ADC decided to give up and push mid so I coulda stayed farming but felt I should be apart of the team fights to or help with Dragon. More DMG to champs? Every time I faced someone they simply died. It's not like I was KSing, every kill I got I was a major part of other then the time I based and shot my ult into the team fight as I ran there. Got at least 1 kill from that and some credit on other peoples kills. Other then that most of my kills were bot IIRC. How do you get more DMG when people die every time they come at you or every time you come after them? Wards? Def could do better there.

 

[Mostmanlyman]

So is ez good or not i have seen him played a bunch and he always seems to do ok or bad.
Also i finally got corki and wow he is really good, oce you get triforce you start doing so much damage. I keep getting really greedy when i have passive up, i need to get better at using it.

 

[TheFlow]

Guys I got a sona support...this is going to end in a lose. there goes my 7 game winning streak and silver promotion.

we lost. fuck sona. She is aids

 

[pigeon]

So is ez good or not i have seen him played a bunch and he always seems to do ok or bad.
Also i finally got corki and wow he is really good, oce you get triforce you start doing so much damage. I keep getting really greedy when i have passive up, i need to get better at using it.

Non-blue Ez is ok, not that great.

Blue Ez is pretty strong late, but he's pretty bad until then because you spend a lot of time building non-combat stats. Dangerous pick for solo q because your team needs to understand that you don't do that much for the first 30 minutes and not throw the game.

 

[Newt]

So is ez good or not i have seen him played a bunch and he always seems to do ok or bad.
Also i finally got corki and wow he is really good, oce you get triforce you start doing so much damage. I keep getting really greedy when i have passive up, i need to get better at using it.

Ez is strong ATM, but you need to be competent to do damage/win. He also gets shit on by Lucian in lane.

 

[NCR Redslayer]

Man im getting terrible lag in my games that make skillshots and CSing a pain. It doesn't help that these were in my promo matches too.

 

[TheFlow]

enemy team has ali, mundo , ez, and uydr. I hope they have a afk.

 

[Hydrophobic]

enemy team has ali, mundo , ez, and uydr. I hope they have a afk.

I hope your team has a shit ton of damage. That just looks unpleasant if you've got like 1 good damage source.

 

[Mostmanlyman]

Ez is strong ATM, but you need to be competent to do damage/win. He also gets shit on by Lucian in lane.

Ok thats what i thought, is was just wondering because i have seen a bunch of them and they never really do that hell.

 

[garath]

enemy team has ali, mundo , ez, and uydr. I hope they have a afk.

Lol. That sounds like a dodge from the get go. I can't wait till I finish my last placement so I can safely dodge again.

Then again for all the udyr talk, if you can kite then you can make it work. Most low elo udyrs watch way too much trickg and aren't that great. I ban him away from my own team as much as the enemy.

 

[Envelope]

Still no ekko sale orz

 

[TheFlow]

I hope your team has a shit ton of damage. That just looks unpleasant if you've got like 1 good damage source.

we lost by a landslide. I should of dodged. EZ carried

 

[Newt]

we lost by a landslide. I should of dodged. EZ carried

I watched that game. You guys could have won. You made some major mistakes, and you shouldn't expect to win playing like that.

That wasn't one of those games that was lost on team comps alone. If you want some specifics, I would be happy to help.

 

[Hard]

The lack of people who play Lacoste Croc and collect freelo disgusts me jk

BTW, what should I be rushing on Twisted Fate? I normally build RoA into Lucidity boots then Lich then Abyssal & Zhonyas. I prefer having the defensive stats so that I don't get blown up immediately.

 

[Stone Ocean]

The lack of people who play Lacoste Croc and collect freelo disgusts me jk

BTW, what should I be rushing on Twisted Fate? I normally build RoA into Lucidity boots then Lich then Abyssal & Zhonyas. I prefer having the defensive stats so that I don't get blown up immediately.

That's pretty much it.

 

[garath]

we lost by a landslide. I should of dodged. EZ carried

I watched that game. You guys could have won. You made some major mistakes, and you shouldn't expect to win playing like that.

That wasn't one of those games that was lost on team comps alone. If you want some specifics, I would be happy to help.

The best way to get better is to recognize your own opportunities for improvement and build on that. As much as we like to blame our teams for our losses, there's always ways we can improve ourselves and potentially turn the tide of some games.

I'd definitely take newt up on any feedback. Sometimes it's really hard to see it when you're in the middle of it. That's a big reason I wish riot would get these replays going darn it.

 

[Mostmanlyman]

The best way to get better is to recognize your own opportunities for improvement and build on that. As much as we like to blame our teams for our losses, there's always ways we can improve ourselves and potentially turn the tide of some games.

I'd definitely take newt up on any feedback. Sometimes it's really hard to see it when you're in the middle of it. That's a big reason I wish riot would get these replays going darn it.

Yeah i agree with this. Yeah replays and sandbox mode would help soooooo much. It is nice to have people watch your games and give you tips on your game play.

 

[Peanut Butter]

The replay system won't be out until

-after the Tarric rework
-after the Yorick rework
-after the mage rework
-after the PROJECT Teemo, Rengar, Ahri, & Ekko line debuts
-after the release of 5 new champions
-after Worlds 2016
-after pre-season 7
-after Worlds 2017

 

[Mostmanlyman]

The replay system won't be out until

-after the Tarric rework
-after the Yorick rework
-after the mage rework
-after the PROJECT Teemo, Rengar, Ahri, & Ekko line debuts
-after the release of 5 new champions
-after Worlds 2016
-after pre-season 7
-after Worlds 2017

Lol. Dont forgot that between each of those there is a bunch of skins made and champs being made.

I really wonder what season it is going to be when the completely redo there engine because they are going to have to do it kinda soon. With the amount of bugs that happen every patch you can tell that the old bad habits are piling up.

 

[zkylon]

i'd mind about replays a whole lot more if there weren't already good third party solutions that work and are easy to use

things like taric, yorick, malzahar, etc., those things are way more priority to me that something that's already pretty much solved

besides, the best way to watch your own replays is with obs rather than a spectator client replay, since obs records your clicks and your pov only

Lol. Dont forgot that between each of those there is a bunch of skins made and champs being made.

so you want champion designers and artists to code your replay system?

I really wonder what season it is going to be when the completely redo there engine because they are going to have to do it kinda soon. With the amount of bugs that happen every patch you can tell that the old bad habits are piling up.

they'll never redo the entire engine, just makes no immediate sense to open a ridiculously giant project like that

they'll slowly refactor the broken parts bit by bit like they've done in the past

the game already looks gorgeous and is for the most part not a buggy experience, so idk why they would have to throw all it away

 

[Hard]

Dealing with Quinn top is the worst. I could think of multiple choice words for people who do that.

Replays are a vaporware meme at this point. I'd much prefer a redone client, and that's supposed to be coming reasonably soon.

 

[Hydrophobic]

I really wonder what season it is going to be when the completely redo there engine because they are going to have to do it kinda soon. With the amount of bugs that happen every patch you can tell that the old bad habits are piling up.

If they're going to do it any time soon then they've already been working on it for a few years. So I wouldn't expect it. Even if they aren't working on it, they can't tell the general public because not enough people have a grasp on just how huge of an undertaking it is to create an engine from scratch and new engine would become the next 'replays where' meme.

 

[Tizoc]

Don't try this Vayne build at home
http://matchhistory.eune.leagueofle...etails/EUN1/1342561594/205390904?tab=overview

 

[Mostmanlyman]

Well to me it kinda seems like they just keep putting bandages on the problems and just hoping that it says together. Like there are some really bad problems that happen and usually are patched out quickly, but there was the instant back problem, the instant ult bug on people. Like usually with other games they dont have problems where they have to disable people. I dont want a whole visual over haul, i like how the game looks.

Like the game wasn't really coded that well. Dota 2 just switched to source two after a while. Which is alot different from league because value has some amazing people working over there to make those engines and the engine came be used for alot more things.


No i way rather have spectator client because i get to see everything,
Also im not asking all of there artist and designers to start coding but maybe being the biggest game in the world you could maybe invest in making a engine. Like for the long run if they want people to continue playing there game they should probably think about updating it in a few years.

If they're going to do it any time soon then they've already been working on it for a few years. So I wouldn't expect it. Even if they aren't working on it, they can't tell the general public because not enough people have a grasp on just how huge of an undertaking it is to create an engine from scratch and new engine would become the next 'replays where' meme.

Yeah thats what i mean i know it is not going to be like boom we have a new engine. Like i would guess that they would have people working on that because they are going to need it.

 

[Orochinagis]

Welp, I think I found out why my friends and I cant win

We can manage to take top lane down, mid down and bot down then...nothing.

 

[Stone Ocean]

No i way rather have spectator client because i get to see everything,
Also im not asking all of there artist and designers to start coding but maybe being the biggest game in the world you could maybe invest in making a engine. Like for the long run if they want people to continue playing there game they should probably think about updating it in a few years.


Yeah thats what i mean i know it is not going to be like boom we have a new engine. Like i would guess that they would have people working on that because they are going to need it.

A new engine is hard specially because this is the biggest game in the world. One of League's biggest draws is being able to run on the toastiest of toasters out there, add a new engine haphazardly and suddenly people with shitty PCs can't play anymore, there's gotta be so much planning going into a decision like that, I'm not sure it's even worth the trouble.

You had people not being able to play because Riot made a new map, can you imagine the optimzation clusterfuck that changing the engine would be?

 

[zkylon]

Well to me it kinda seems like they just keep putting bandages on the problems and just hoping that it says together. Like there are some really bad problems that happen and usually are patched out quickly, but there was the instant back problem, the instant ult bug on people. Like usually with other games they dont have problems where they have to disable people. I dont want a whole visual over haul, i like how the game looks.

Like the game wasn't really coded that well. Dota 2 just switched to source to after a while. Which is alot different from league because value has some amazing people working over there to make those engines.

most games aren't as complex as mobas and don't have the stress tests that league does (as in, not everything is tested by 50 million ppl every day)

i mean, i'm sure doto is better but there's like 80 thousand bug threads in their forums. they run into similar problems because this is how complicated these fucking games are.

also, didn't reborn like get a shit ton of flak because it made the game worse for everyone?

No i way rather have spectator client because i get to see everything,

if your goal is to learn from your mistakes then the best way to do it is to obs record your games because your pov informs a lot of your decisionmaking and you can tell "ok i wasn't paying attention to the minimap and that's why i got ganked" or "i don't do the path adjust move thingie enough" or whatever

Also im not asking all of there artist and designers to start coding but maybe being the biggest game in the world you could maybe invest in making a engine. Like for the long run if they want people to continue playing there game they should probably think about updating it in a few years.

they are updating it, just not all at once

saying "they're too busy making skins" is dumb cos rito has different teams doing different stuff

making an engine takes a shit load of time and money and league really isn't a game that needs it

it needs less buggy vision and better scripting for most champions but that's about it, the game runs fine, looks fine and you're not running into game breaking bugs every day

the code is not very stable but for the most part it works

 

[Mostmanlyman]

A new engine is hard specially because this is the biggest game in the world. One of League's biggest draws is being able to run on the toastiest of toasters out there, add a new engine haphazardly and suddenly people with shitty PCs can't play anymore, there's gotta be so much planning going into a decision like that, I'm not sure it's even worth the trouble.

Exactly thats why i think they should invest into some good programers that actually can make a good engine.
Like im not saying we need a new one next year or 2 years from now, but in the future they will have to get a new one.

 

[garath]

It wouldn't shock me in the slightest if they were already working on a new game engine. Building it from the ground up, with all their new knowledge, while adding all the new features they anticipate in the interim is going to take some time. And that's not something they would likely want to advertise until it's inevitable. They can't be afraid to fail at a project like that. If it isn't right, scrap it and try again. Talking about it would make it impossible to do that. They may need to take the motto "fail fast" more to heart though. If something isn't working, don't continue in the hopes it might eventually because of the perceived investment. Try another approach.

We'll likely see a league 2.0 somewhere down the line but until then they are working with what they have. And frankly it isn't working too poorly. For all the claims of spaghetti code, it's not stopping tens of millions of people playing and enjoying daily.

 

[TheFlow]

I watched that game. You guys could have won. You made some major mistakes, and you shouldn't expect to win playing like that.

That wasn't one of those games that was lost on team comps alone. If you want some specifics, I would be happy to help.

Help me Sensai!

 

[PhillipCostigan]

the idea that Riot doesn't have shit hot people in every position is weird to me. considering the hiring process, you don't end up with bad, mediocre or even ok people working there.

Also, not speaking for Riot on this as I'm not an engineer and don't make these decisions, but it's not as simple as just "make a new engine". The development team are constantly working on improving the game every patch. You can read the engineering devblog if you want an idea on some of the stuff they're doing

also the "Valve can make a new engine cos they have amazing people" comparison is weird because it assumes Riot doesn't have that level of talent (not even close to being true) and it also doesn't take into account the situations/priorities etc. It might make sense for Valve to make a new engine they can use for different games etc. but not for Riot at this moment in time.

Then you also have to take into account R&D work for whatever we do next.

Basically it's not as simple as saying "make a new engine" and it's not going to be the answer to the random bugs that appear in a game that's constantly changing every 2 weeks.

 

[Leezard]

Well to me it kinda seems like they just keep putting bandages on the problems and just hoping that it says together. Like there are some really bad problems that happen and usually are patched out quickly, but there was the instant back problem, the instant ult bug on people. Like usually with other games they dont have problems where they have to disable people. I dont want a whole visual over haul, i like how the game looks.

Like the game wasn't really coded that well. Dota 2 just switched to source two after a while. Which is alot different from league because value has some amazing people working over there to make those engines and the engine came be used for alot more things.


No i way rather have spectator client because i get to see everything,
Also im not asking all of there artist and designers to start coding but maybe being the biggest game in the world you could maybe invest in making a engine. Like for the long run if they want people to continue playing there game they should probably think about updating it in a few years.


Yeah thats what i mean i know it is not going to be like boom we have a new engine. Like i would guess that they would have people working on that because they are going to need it.

I don't know if that's the best example since a lot of bugs appeared and they lost spectator features.

 

[zkylon]

there's also no point in making a new engine when all your bugs are either systems or scripting

at one point rito is gonna do the phalanges thing and call it league 2.0 but tbh all they have to do is what they've been doing, redo the skillshots system, redo the vision system (and not fuck it up even more), redo the client, redo how active items work, redo jungle and minion aggro, etc.

and probably redo a shit ton of champions that are kind of a complete mess like syndra or azir (who despite being a hell of a lot better still have bugs)

saying league needs a new engine is not knowing how games work really

 

[Newt]

Well as much as I love League, and I understand that there's a lot of great Riot employees, lets not kid ourselves. Riot is super slow in releasing features to the game compared to it's competitors.

Like, I'm not gonna buy into shitty statements like this. (Although I don't think I buy into anything Lyte says lol).

 

[Hydrophobic]

also the "Valve can make a new engine cos they have amazing people" comparison is weird because it assumes Riot doesn't have that level of talent (not even close to being true) and it also doesn't take into account the situations/priorities etc. It might make sense for Valve to make a new engine they can use for different games etc. but not for Riot at this moment in time.

The biggest issue with people pointing out Source 2 is that it feels like people forget that Valve has had a long damn time to work on that Engine. A quick google search says that Valve has been talking about Source 2 since May 2011, and they sure as hell didn't start talking about it before they at least had some development on that. So it took Valve like 5 years of work with their team size. The amount of engineers on a team vs amount of progress made isn't a linear graph.

Not piling on anyone in the thread either. It's just a general complaint I have. It feels like a lot of armchair engineers think they know how software development works in a large company. Even if you work at a large company, your experience doesn't necessarily compare to how stuff is done at a different company.

Also how can we really prioritize a new engine when they still haven't removed Teemo from the game?

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Well as much as I love League, and I understand that there's a lot of great Riot employees, lets not kid ourselves. Riot is super slow in releasing features to the game compared to it's competitors.

Like, I'm not gonna buy into shitty statements like this. (Although I don't think I buy into anything Lyte says lol).

you say that, but you should look at the patch cadence for other MOBAs. League patches every 2 weeks with new stuff. As for major major features, we do take our time but that's because we want to do it right. We could release a half-assed, undercooked version of something quicker if we wanted, but who would that really serve? Players would have a worse experience which nobody at Riot wants.

We're not perfect, but we don't want to release stuff unless it's really good an improves the player's experience. Sometimes we get it wrong, sure.

 

[Newt]

Help me Sensai!

Well lets work on the fast fix stuff first.

1. Your build is the biggest issue.

First off, see the champions you're playing against.

Alistar: - Low Damage
Ez - Physical (Minor Magic)
Mundo - Magic
Cho - Magic
Udyr (Phoenix) - Magic

So, your starting items are fine, but the rest mostly isn't lol. First problem is that you rushed sightstone. Sightstone is not a good item to rush, because it doesn't offer very good stats. If you need vision, buy pink wards and upgrade your support item/buy boots. You didn't buy a single pink that game, and you should buy many. Even on ADC, I usually get 2-3 pinks per game.

Next issue is that you rushed deadmans plate. First of all, their team is mostly AP, as I mentioned earlier. In the post-game stats, they did twice as much magic damage as physical. Even if they did have physical damage, deadman's plate is not a good rush item on support. The main stat most support champions want is CDR. Thornmail is also not a great rush item, and it seldom built on support unless it's in the final slot.

The core items I would have built that game would have been Targons -> Swifties -> Face -> Locket.

2. You should not be dying so much.

This is kinda of self explanatory, but a big issue with support players in bronze is that they get caught out and say something like "I was warding". Warding is not a free ticket out. You do not face check bushes, you do not stick around in river. You go in and out.

There's more for you to work on, but these are the main two issues, and if you work on this I see vast improvement.