• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

League of Legends |OT11| going

Duskblade is meant to be something Riot will balance AD assassins around. Problem is the item is being shipped with pretty much no changes to go along with aside from that Zed ult revert, so the game will be preseason-insane for a couple patches.
I meant the bonus AD from Fervor. The name of the mastery escaped me at the moment.
Fervor does not give bonus AD, it gives bonus on hit physical damage
 

pigeon

Banned
Yeah, like, as noted, this item has to be a buff for AD assassins or it doesn't accomplish the goal of being a priority itemization choice for AD assassins so that it can be a balancing lever. Definitionally it has to be better than whatever they were building for their third item at least, and probably better than first or second item.

But yeah, weird choice to only nerf Zed and leave every other AD champ untouched.

Because AD assassin's don't get enough cheap armor pen

It builds out of BF Sword, in what sense is it cheap?
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Because as Zky will tell you, certain (maybe most?) AD Assassins lose their relevancy after about 30 minutes. They no longer do enough to burst anyone and without their combo being off CD (a combo which usually includes a fairly high CD ultimate), they simply become large minions in late game team fights. Not that the damage they can put out isn't appreciated, but if an assassin can only injure rather than assassinate, they aren't able to do their job.

The problem is in the implementation. Every team is going to have two of these Duskblades on their team, and it won't be only designated Assassin champs carrying them. That's a fairly scary prospect.
i dunno if that's gonna be the case, imo it's too expensive for most junglers and there's better items for adcs and bruisers to build

also imo the problem isn't implementation, it's general assassin design being dumb cos league is a game of versatility and champions that tunnel too hard on one thing are always bad unless they're op or the meta very heavily favors that thing

It was meant as a reply to Dreams. We already have enough cheap armor pen in the game already. This item is just begging to be abused by non-assassins.
the bundle of stats it gives are kind of terrible for non assassins if it's not overtuned

basically junglers would love it but it should be out of their pricerange (which is why it builds out of a bf sword instead of something easier to build)

if junglers or adcs end up using it, it'll just be nerfed

Welp, hope you can forgive me. Unless it's Pokemon I really suck at strange names. Hell, I suck at spelling normal names.
just don't write my name wrong -__-

Yeah, like, as noted, this item has to be a buff for AD assassins or it doesn't accomplish the goal of being a priority itemization choice for AD assassins so that it can be a balancing lever. Definitionally it has to be better than whatever they were building for their third item at least, and probably better than first or second item.

But yeah, weird choice to only nerf Zed and leave every other AD champ untouched.
that's the thing about ad assassins, while itemization was always a problem because of how weird it was to buy last whisper to kill squishies and ppl stacking bts and whatnot, their biggest issue is still on the kit side

the whole lacking levers is specially obvious when so many of them have so many binary spells that only serve as part of a combo

it's not like talon's q can be used in many varied ways or zed e or whatever. it even applies to some ap champions like katarina w and akali e. zed e has some fun uses for kiting, sorta, but still

there's no balance lever there, it's just a "deal dmg" button, it's super binary and it's a big problem when it comes to balance champions if they have spells that are braindead like that

if you don't give assassins more options than just deal a ton of dmg in one combo they're always gonna be problematic cos that's just not something you can really balance
 

Hard

Banned
Is Opiate even here anymore
after that thing

They should make a new custom mode tho. 1v1's maybe
ty magma chamber
 
Because as Zky will tell you, certain (maybe most?) AD Assassins lose their relevancy after about 30 minutes. They no longer do enough to burst anyone and without their combo being off CD (a combo which usually includes a fairly high CD ultimate), they simply become large minions in late game team fights. Not that the damage they can put out isn't appreciated, but if an assassin can only injure rather than assassinate, they aren't able to do their job.

The problem is in the implementation. Every team is going to have two of these Duskblades on their team, and it won't be only designated Assassin champs carrying them. That's a fairly scary prospect.

How much sense does it make that a Zed or Talon etc can 100-0 a tank with 4000 health with 300+ armor after 30 minutes or are you saying they can't do that to the ADCs or APCs after such time.

I mean I don't want to see the time when Rengar can do this to anyone at any point in time. Besides the ult CDs for most assassins are low. I think Rengar's ult is the only long one right? (should be longer)

Non Assassins (aka Bruisers etc) are going to rek so hard with this item. *hopes for more Illaoi buffs*

Edit: That Graves balance tho.
 

garath

Member
Because AD assassin's don't get enough cheap armor pen

>minions late game

ok

There's only a few armor pen items and non of them are "cheap". The only one that qualifies as cheap is the Dirk and that's 1100?

Big ticket items are ghostblade or maw. Both are more specialized in their application though ghostblade has become more of a goto just for the armor pen.

It's true that by changing last whisper the way they did, they left a gap in the ad caster itemization that is not mirrored in the AP itemization. Void staff, abyssal and haunting guise are all still very effective.

I'm not sure about that dfg style passive though. That's what's making it potentially too much.
 

garath

Member
i dunno if that's gonna be the case, imo it's too expensive for most junglers and there's better items for adcs and bruisers to build

also imo the problem isn't implementation, it's general assassin design being dumb cos league is a game of versatility and champions that tunnel too hard on one thing are always bad unless they're op or the meta very heavily favors that thing


the bundle of stats it gives are kind of terrible for non assassins if it's not overtuned

basically junglers would love it but it should be out of their pricerange (which is why it builds out of a bf sword instead of something easier to build)


if junglers or adcs end up using it, it'll just be nerfed

Que? You keep saying this but it's just not true. Junglers can afford big ticket items as easily as a laner. The gold income from the jungle isn't that much lower than lane, especially if you get some ganks off. Junglers don't build that many BF items right now because there isn't much to build out of it that is worth rushing. You'll still see rengars or yi or kindred with IE eventually but there are better items to get first - items with armor pen or defensive stats.

Duskblade will 100% be a jungler item. Every single khazix, graves and rengar will build it.
 
GOD FUCKING DAMN IT

At least it's not actual dominion. Those few matches I had to play to get the Diana year of the horse icon were some of the worst experiences I ever had with this game.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Que? You keep saying this but it's just not true. Junglers can afford big ticket items as easily as a laner. The gold income from the jungle isn't that much lower than lane, especially if you get some ganks off. Junglers don't build that many BF items right now because there isn't much to build out of it that is worth rushing. You'll still see rengars or yi or kindred with IE eventually but there are better items to get first - items with armor pen or defensive stats.

Duskblade will 100% be a jungler item. Every single khazix, graves and rengar will build it.
lol who cares about the fourth jungler item on some of the worst junglers in the game. matches almost never last that long, and graves doesn't count cos graves is broken no matter the item

will popular junglers like lee sin or kindred build it? like as not a "win more" item but an actual part of their builds?

how many junglers would build this crap over youmuus cos i don't know many junglers that get more than one dmg item

seriously asking
 

garath

Member
lol who cares about the fourth jungler item on some of the worst junglers in the game. matches almost never last that long, and graves doesn't count cos graves is broken no matter the item

will popular junglers like lee sin or kindred build it? like as not a "win more" item but an actual part of their builds?

how many junglers would build this crap over youmuus cos i don't know many junglers that get more than one dmg item

seriously asking

I see duskblade as a replacement for ghostblade in jungle itemization. Does kindred build ghostblade? A lot of times yes. Lee doesn't normally build ghostblade so it'll be no for him.

I think you mistake some of the popular and good junglers. Yi actually has a good winrate. Rengar was really good in the right hands.

We'll see how it shakes out.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
dude, rengar got the biggest olafing since olaf, he's bottom 2 jungler winrates in champion.gg lol. idc if dandy can still carry on rengar, the asshole you're gonna run in your games is gonna suck

yi might have a good winrate but who cares, no one plays yi and it's probably not gonna be a problem on him since yi's easy to deal with

i'd be more worried if i saw it on vi and j4 and lee sin and kindred who are played really frequently rather than rengar who's absolute garbage right now (as he deserves) or champions that you never see like yi or khazix
 
How much sense does it make that a Zed or Talon etc can 100-0 a tank with 4000 health with 300+ armor after 30 minutes or are you saying they can't do that to the ADCs or APCs after such time.

I mean I don't want to see the time when Rengar can do this to anyone at any point in time. Besides the ult CDs for most assassins are low. I think Rengar's ult is the only long one right? (should be longer)

Non Assassins (aka Bruisers etc) are going to rek so hard with this item. *hopes for more Illaoi buffs*

Edit: That Graves balance tho.

You'll get no argument from me. I understand the intention, but if your tank can't tank someone doesn't get to do their job.

Also, cutie's Graves...I admit I haven't played Graves since his rework. Why does he get so much armor pen? Is it just part of the character redesign? Why is 60 armor pen okay? He's dealing almost pure damage to people.
 

garath

Member
dude, rengar got the biggest olafing since olaf, he's bottom 2 jungler winrates in champion.gg lol. idc if dandy can still carry on rengar, the asshole you're gonna run in your games is gonna suck

yi might have a good winrate but who cares, no one plays yi and it's probably not gonna be a problem on him since yi's easy to deal with

i'd be more worried if i saw it on vi and j4 and lee sin and kindred who are played really frequently rather than rengar who's absolute garbage right now (as he deserves) or champions that you never see like yi or khazix

Vi? J4? Must be some regional and elo differences here. They are hardly ever seen in my games.

I see a khazix every third game. Yi has a 10% played rate. He's the third most popular jungle on champion.gg. then there's graves who will love duskblade and is hugely popular.

I don't care what Lee does. He is hugely popular but has one of the lowest win rates.

Rengar got olafed but aren't they buffing him again? Plus duskblade is going to give him some love back.
 

jerd

Member
see, see, see, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about last night

problematic champion, nerf aspect that actually ISN'T problematic. wat

Riot's been pretty open about nerfing weaknesses not strengths. This isn't anything new and it's definitely intended
 
Gotta be a regional difference cause I haven't seen Vi and J4 in a minute. Graves needs a lil more nerfing before he gets out of instaban range for me. It's funny how Rito continues to ignore Quinn like she isn't in a state of disarray.
 

Nekofrog

Banned
Riot's been pretty open about nerfing weaknesses not strengths. This isn't anything new and it's definitely intended

and it's the stupidest approach to nerfing a champion that you could possibly imagine, because in scenario after scenario after scenario they take a champion that NEEDS to have its power dropped, take the aspect that's not overpowered and nerf that instead.

then when it comes time to actually address the situation, they have had these dumb nerfs piling up over time and now the champion is bad because they didn't want to address the problem to begin with.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Vi? J4? Must be some regional and elo differences here. They are hardly ever seen in my games.

I see a khazix every third game. Yi has a 10% played rate. He's the third most popular jungle on champion.gg. then there's graves who will love duskblade and is hugely popular.

I don't care what Lee does. He is hugely popular but has one of the lowest win rates.

Rengar got olafed but aren't they buffing him again? Plus duskblade is going to give him some love back.
back up a sec

i'm saying popular champions that could benefit from this item, so i'm not counting elise and nidalee for instance. i'm not saying vi and j4 show up in every game cos they don't, they just show up way more often for me than master yi, tho i play lots of ranked 5s and yi isn't realy much of a ranked 5s kind of champion

and u should care about lee sin way more than you care about graves. graves you already ban and is already broken, he can get broken-er but he's already a huge pain, it's not too troubling. someone like vi maybe synergizing too good with the item or whatever is much worse imo

also i don't think the rengar buffs will change much
 

Nekofrog

Banned
"Nerf" *snort*

Her E isn't really a problem either. It's not weak or strong at a near 10 second cooldown for a good portion of the game, it's fine as an ability.

The issue with Fiora is and always will be her %HP true damage and the way it functions with her vitals. Nothing else.
 

Leezard

Member
Her E isn't really a problem either. It's not weak or strong at a near 10 second cooldown for a good portion of the game, it's fine as an ability.

The issue with Fiora is and always will be her %HP true damage and the way it functions with her vitals. Nothing else.

That's her strength though, it's pretty much her identity. That's probably not gonna get nerfed due to that whole nerfing weaknesses instead of strengths policy.
 

Hard

Banned
Fiora should have to build damage items to be a damage threat. Simple as that.

Fiora being a lane bully while also being able to scale late and duel anyone 1v1 is too much.
 

pigeon

Banned
ah ty, right now I ban blitz, mundo, and jax any chance I can get.

Blitz is fine because dodging skillshots is hard.

I really don't think it's worth a ban on Jax. Jax just isn't that big a deal any more even before he got nerfed this patch.

I'm unconvinced on Mundo also. Mundo's still good but he's much weaker early now.

It's also not unreasonable to ban whatever matchup you most want to avoid for yourself.
 
I just ban what ever kinda champ I don't feel like being against.

As Jinx ... if I don't see that my Sup wanted to play Thresh I ban that fucker cause he's annoying to deal with and I have no escape. With Diana it's the Donger, I just don't have the range to deal with him (part of why I wanna learn Syndra, to counter that once every blue moon Donger pick with a ranged mage).

Otherwise I try to get people to ban what would go against our team comp if we're lacking tanks. If we don't have any tanks OR is we have only one character who could possibly be tanky maybe if they decided to BUILD tanky then ... I ask them to ban any popular tanks they can (cause if we allow them to have any it's gonna be a haaard match when we're getting cced to death and no one can start a team fight without being burnt down in seconds.)
 
might switch jax for illaoi then

Yea Jax isn't that much of a problem anymore imo. I get to sneak games with Illaoi in since Jhin has been released but the more I play her I see more apparent flaws in her kit. That game I played last night with the double silences on the enemy team was no joke lol. Graves is a 100% ban for me right now.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
I just ban what ever kinda champ I don't feel like being against.

As Jinx ... if I don't see that my Sup wanted to play Thresh I ban that fucker cause he's annoying to deal with and I have no escape. With Diana it's the Donger, I just don't have the range to deal with him (part of why I wanna learn Syndra, to counter that once every blue moon Donger pick with a ranged mage).

Otherwise I try to get people to ban what would go against our team comp if we're lacking tanks. If we don't have any tanks OR is we have only one character who could possibly be tanky maybe if they decided to BUILD tanky then ... I ask them to ban any popular tanks they can (cause if we allow them to have any it's gonna be a haaard match when we're getting cced to death and no one can start a team fight without being burnt down in seconds.)
people like you are the reason stuff like udyr gets through ban phase.
 
Top Bottom