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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.

Alot of League champions tend to be a bit redundant when it comes to what role they cover, and tiers are naturally formed from that. For example, Trundle makes alot of bruisers obsolete with his sustain, utility, and tankiness. Another one is Akali, whereas shes a good assassin, someone like leblanc is preferred because of her CC and ability to get out/in without any drawbacks. Therefore Akali becomes redundant and comes out weaker than LB.

Heroes in DotA 2 tend to have unique niches that make them pick worthy, and theres less redundancy in their hero pool because of it.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
i think there's just a ton more variables to doto which makes optimizing the perfect composition and champion roster much harder
 
i think there's just a ton more variables to doto which makes optimizing the perfect composition and champion roster much harder

That too.

The amount of mechanics at play are much more dense then league. And because its dense, you can do more to fill that density. Something like Broodmother or Lifestealer would be horribly overpowered in League, but in Dota they just fill a niche.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
i think riot's pretty aware of that issue which is why they've been trying to make newer champions a lot more unique. there's no champion in the game with a passive like aurelion sol's, or bard's portals or whatever. new items also giving you like a mini flash or extended auto range for adcs and stuff, the new dragon and rift herald systems and such are also meant to inject the game with a few new mechanics that make the game less "quantifiable"

the mordekaiser was probably a very agressive experiment about this too that didn't quite paid off but i really hope it's not the last
 

patchday

Member

Alot of League champions tend to be a bit redundant when it comes to what role they cover, and tiers are naturally formed from that. For example, Trundle makes alot of bruisers obsolete with his sustain, utility, and tankiness. Another one is Akali, whereas shes a good assassin, someone like leblanc is preferred because of her CC and ability to get out/in without any drawbacks. Therefore Akali becomes redundant and comes out weaker than LB.

Heroes in DotA 2 tend to have unique niches that make them pick worthy, and theres less redundancy in their hero pool because of it.

i think there's just a ton more variables to doto which makes optimizing the perfect composition and champion roster much harder

These are all very good reasons and seem spot on.
 
Cool thoughts on that subject, guys. Sorry for the late response. Roaming around a Maui beach, staring at Volcanoes. And yea I'm a big fan of their recent efforts to make Champions that offer something unique that can't easily be one-upped like the Akali example. Hopefully they keep it up!
 
i think riot's pretty aware of that issue which is why they've been trying to make newer champions a lot more unique. there's no champion in the game with a passive like aurelion sol's, or bard's portals or whatever. new items also giving you like a mini flash or extended auto range for adcs and stuff, the new dragon and rift herald systems and such are also meant to inject the game with a few new mechanics that make the game less "quantifiable"

the mordekaiser was probably a very agressive experiment about this too that didn't quite paid off but i really hope it's not the last

The trap they are falling into however is that by making new champions with unique niches, they can inadvertently invalidate older champions in turn. Azir, Kindred, Ekko all suffer from this(although Azir is more mechanical thus youd only see him perma banned in higher elos/pro play, ekko right now is a fringe case with the constant nerfs given to them).

Taliyah is, imo a failed attempt at this because her unorthodox kit isnt all intuitive. It has a little bit of everythinf but excels at none of what its attempting to do.

So Riot right now has to be careful on releasing unique champions in loo of that trap.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
i'd say those aren't the greatest examples of unique champions, but i think the problem is that even the most unique champs like bard are actually picked because they're good at things that existed before (bard ult is a really good and safe pickoff ability, he's ranged so he's good at 2v1s, he provides cc and sustain, etc.), not necessarily for his tunnels.

reksai is kind of a better example, but still not quite

it's difficult, i feel like the core game isn't complex enough to support the kinds of niche that riot would love to add to the game
 

zkylon

zkylewd
70eaa33ee48d82d6387d813fe19e3e8c-da63b2o.jpg

how much more are u gonna wait riot
 
Yeah, I haven't played any other MoBa game buuuut I see that LoL is limited by it's simplicity in some regards. I mean, they have certain roles set up for years now but so lil division in stats and items that adding in new items or features can become broken on some champs that they were never meant to be used on.

I really wonder if, with how big these class changes are, they might make a new stat just for assassins when they roll out the assassin class rework. Seems like it would make balancing them and designing items just for them far more fluid because they would have to build something like "Dexterity/ Agility" or something to do their role well that would be useless on other champs unless they take some really off the wall not-so-useful build.

But I'm not a game designer so what would I know? LoL might be too old to do something like that at this point.
 
Yeah, I haven't played any other MoBa game buuuut I see that LoL is limited by it's simplicity in some regards. I mean, they have certain roles set up for years now but so lil division in stats and items that adding in new items or features can become broken on some champs that they were never meant to be used on.

I really wonder if, with how big these class changes are, they might make a new stat just for assassins when they roll out the assassin class rework. Seems like it would make balancing them and designing items just for them far more fluid because they would have to build something like "Dexterity/ Agility" or something to do their role well that would be useless on other champs unless they take some really off the wall not-so-useful build.

But I'm not a game designer so what would I know? LoL might be too old to do something like that at this point.

It depends. Adding more stats might be a good thing, but it will also increase the 'burden of knowledge' that League seemed against in the beginning(Being simpler than DotA 2 and how they pushed that back then, that it was easier to get into it). It seems to be going into something more complicated now though, what with the dragon changes, addition of Rift Herald, Elder Dragon, the new swathe of items being added over time.

Adding more stats will let them create characters that aren't tied to the current item sets-IE forcing Zed to build something like Agility/Dexterity, meaning getting items like Youmous or BC wouldn't be reliable as before, but they can also balance Assassins in a way that doesn't affect items used for ADCs, whilst item changes won't inadvertently be ridiculous on assassins when they're meant for ADCs.

Like, Suddenly Zed has to itemize with these Agility items that are tuned for Assassins like him. The downside is more things to balance, like mentioned Burden of Knowledge, and whether or not this type of change(Agility) would effect characters like Fizz, who isn't an AD assassin.

Then there's the lashback of 'you're changing muh champions' which I mean...people will complain about. It could work but again, burden of knowledge, as well as the amount of density they would be adding to it. The upsides are obviously, being able to balance assassins separate to tanks, mages, and ADCs because they have a different item set.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Yeah, I haven't played any other MoBa game buuuut I see that LoL is limited by it's simplicity in some regards. I mean, they have certain roles set up for years now but so lil division in stats and items that adding in new items or features can become broken on some champs that they were never meant to be used on.

I really wonder if, with how big these class changes are, they might make a new stat just for assassins when they roll out the assassin class rework. Seems like it would make balancing them and designing items just for them far more fluid because they would have to build something like "Dexterity/ Agility" or something to do their role well that would be useless on other champs unless they take some really off the wall not-so-useful build.

But I'm not a game designer so what would I know? LoL might be too old to do something like that at this point.
yeah that's not really a great idea.

what would the benefit be of doing that?

i don't think there's a problem with designing items for assassins, i think riot just hasn't tried much
 
yeah that's not really a great idea.

what would the benefit be of doing that?

i don't think there's a problem with designing items for assassins, i think riot just hasn't tried much

The benefit is, it allows them to fine-tune for Assassins separately from Bruisers and separately from ADCs, without having item sets meant for one or the other bleed into usage by a class not meant to build that item as an essential item.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
The benefit is, it allows them to fine-tune for Assassins separately from Bruisers and separately from ADCs, without having item sets meant for one or the other bleed into usage by a class not meant to build that item as an essential item.
but that's not really a problem?

and having a different stat wouldn't solve it, it would just put riot with the task of designing like a ton of new items for assassins since regular items wouldn't serve them

and also why single out assassins? why not make a stat for supports and light fighters and junglers and whatever then?
 
but that's not really a problem?

and having a different stat wouldn't solve it, it would just put riot with the task of designing like a ton of new items for assassins since regular items wouldn't serve them

and also why single out assassins? why not make a stat for supports and light fighters and junglers and whatever then?

THEY SHOULD MAKE STATS FOR EVERYONE

I dunno, I was responding to blackwind. Whether it's a problem to Riot, that's beyond me.
 
Getting oneshot by a Vlad with Rylais, Visage and Warmogs. He didn't even hit his E. Just ult and 2 Q's plus a tick of W.

I have to keep asking myself why I play this game. Everything is bullshit.
 

Kyonashi

Member
Fantasy question: I'm the idiot who drafted Forg1ven and am in a bit of a pickle with my ADC, I have MrRalleZ on my team but the only other free agents are Ohq, SONSTAR, Kobbe, Reje, LOD, Apollo, Keith and Veritas.

Any of these worth trading or am I just screwed for the split

Annoyingly one of my friends has both Zven and Doublelift (Flex).
 

Newt

Member
Fantasy question: I'm the idiot who drafted Forg1ven and am in a bit of a pickle with my ADC, I have MrRalleZ on my team but the only other free agents are Ohq, SONSTAR, Kobbe, Reje, LOD, Apollo, Keith and Veritas.

Any of these worth trading or am I just screwed for the split

Annoyingly one of my friends has both Zven and Doublelift (Flex).
Zkylon got auto drafted Forgiven but he somehow he got Sneaky too. I would honestly go with Ohq.
 
Fantasy question: I'm the idiot who drafted Forg1ven and am in a bit of a pickle with my ADC, I have MrRalleZ on my team but the only other free agents are Ohq, SONSTAR, Kobbe, Reje, LOD, Apollo, Keith and Veritas.

Any of these worth trading or am I just screwed for the split

Annoyingly one of my friends has both Zven and Doublelift (Flex).

both Kobbe and LOD are performing really well this split.
 
Personally, I think getting grind down by Vlad is hilarious. You fight him when he's low and then he Qs you and gets back 1000 health and proceeds to melt you.

Executioner's Blade should build into more stuff.
 

Luigi87

Member
Welp, hopping aboard the fuck Yasuo train.
Beat down his team hard (28 to 9ish), then he just keeps farming until he can snowball hard and just never die while getting multikills with Warlords, etc... until we lose.
 

Nekofrog

Banned
If I could have 2 keystones on irelia i'd take stormraider's and fervor and i'd be so happy

you little punks think irelia is sticky now, just imagine it
 

Talents

Banned
never looked into it, so sorry if it's a dumb question.

but autofill isn't opt-in? it's obligatory during certain times?

Pretty much yeah. It tells you when it's enabled, but once it's enabled you can't disable it manually or anything. It really sucks.
 
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