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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.

killatopak

Gold Member
why would u want to play an ad mid when there's like two tho?

i play varus when i see i have like an ekko or rumble top and that's fine for me

That's why I said there's too few ad mids. Options are poke and assassins. While there's a lot more options for ap.

But thats a conscious choice. Double AD is supposed to have drawbacks because of the nature of AD, same as double AP. An auto attack based magic bot laner would twist balance to his whims because he'd basically need to be broken to be viable.

There's no guarantee that it'll need to be broken to be viable when corki exists. He's not 100% ap based AA but he's a very reasonable example of ap bot lane possibly being viable. I just want riot to try it anyway even if it turns out to be broken. Meta shifts only happen when things are broken anyway. They tried morde bot and that is even more radical than what I'm proposing.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
i just don't see what would be interesting about an ad mage that couldn't just be done with ap

if u do an ad mage you have to make special items for them that aren't broken on adcs and assassins and bruisers, and all you would get is just a mage with a different dmg type

like to me it's a lot less interesting if mages can be ad cos that means the stat is just an arbitrary scaling thing vs the more differentiated tradeoffs of one statline and the other

say taliyah is ad and her spells scale off ad but her autoattack animation is super shit so she can't be played as adc (not that a kit like hers would make sense as an adc), what then?

i think the problem you're talking about (mandatory adcs) comes not so much from damage type but with effectiveness at objective taking. league is all about controlling objectives and no one is better at that than adcs because of their consistent non-cd based high dmg

i think that's what you want to give some ap champions (not all of them, if not you just homogenized both classes), so maybe there is the possibility of picking botlane champions that aren't just adcs

say with someone like cassiopeia or azir you can take baron really quick, with twisted fate you can split push, that kind of stuff. those champions are not as reliable as just playing caitlyn tho, and it's just a few of them that have that capability, so you can just ban them out if they're strong (like it happened with morde or azir/cassiopeia), so they can't really become "mainstream" and allow the meta to shift

you also have to make items that cater to whatever new champions you'd put botlane, so that's gonna be a struggle too

honestly idk, it's such a complicated issue because i don't particularly find the game bad in its current setup
 

killatopak

Gold Member

You raise a lot of good points. AP tops and AD mids can stay as they are but simply the lack of numbers in their pool makes me sad.

The point I was trying to drive home if I get down to it is basically drafting. I don't know much about the intricacies of balance but drafting to me is very limited. It's either AP top and ad mid or ad top and ap mid. Any other options is simply not at the same viability of the previous two. Introducing an AP champion in another lane makes it much more diverse.

ADC being good at taking objectives in my opinion is simply because they have better range and aa speed and animation than any other lanes. ADC can't be said to be better than taking objectives anymore because riot changed the way turrets take damage and AP sometimes does more damage but the lack of attack speed makes them not so good at taking towers. A very weird example of an AP adc being good at taking objectives is Kayle. Her AA range and good attack speed makes her about equal to taking objectives to adcs.

Yes it's complicated and there's a lot to do. Balance can very much be the issue here but that's why I want them to introduce it in preseason where crazy stuff can be done.
 
Its not just attack speed and range but power curves as well. A Kayle with a large rod will not do the same DPS to objectives as an ADC with a BF sword. If she was given that kind of damage early on she would be crazy.
 

Reivaxe

Member
Thinking about getting back into ADC.

Cause I have had too many damn games were a fed Jinx or Cait or Twitch can just rip through the team as our weak ass EZ just boops around until he dies.

Feels like if you can atleast keep bot from getting fed there's a chance a game can swing in your favor.


But then I remember that there's a 2nd person down their who can fed them :/
 

Leezard

Member
Man, Kled deals tons of damage. He stomped our Tryndamere top lane but had somehow just as little impact as Trynda once it came to team fights thanks to cc.

OzWKJNK.png
 

killatopak

Gold Member
Kayle is not equal to ADCs. She takes towers slow.

Early game yes. Late game she takes it really fast.

If you want better example then Diana with Kayle's AA range would be it.
Its not just attack speed and range but power curves as well. A Kayle with a large rod will not do the same DPS to objectives as an ADC with a BF sword. If she was given that kind of damage early on she would be crazy.
I'm not asking Kayle herself to be the AP adc just making an example. If ever riot makes that kind of champ, I'm assuming they balance the way her damage scales on turrets. Possibly based on levels.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
You guys should check out the Worlds thread. There's this post on reddit that copies everything made by zkylewd in his op post. fuck that.
 

clemenx

Banned
Lol, Zedd finally tweeted his song and the fanboys/girls are going apeshit, as expected.

I know it may not been what people following the scene wanted in terms of hype but his name will bring curious people surely.

Also, I know I'm not an old member of this little comunity but I wanted to share with you guys that my baby is due on October 7th :D Can't wait!
 

zkylon

zkylewd
killa i'll get to ur post tonight, i think it's an interesting topic but at work and can't type a proper reply atm

You guys should check out the Worlds thread. There's this post on reddit that copies everything made by zkylewd in his op post. fuck that.
lol that's hilarious, humbling and embarrassing all at once

Lol, Zedd finally tweeted his song and the fanboys/girls are going apeshit, as expected.

I know it may not been what people following the scene wanted in terms of hype but his name will bring curious people surely.

Also, I know I'm not an old member of this little comunity but I wanted to share with you guys that my baby is due on October 7th :D Can't wait!
hey congrats!

boy or girl?

any reason to get championship riven 2016 if i have the old one? they're the same skin right.
no reason

it shouldn't even allow you to afaik
 

Ken

Member
no, no reason. the original version will get extra particles too.

ok then

killa i'll get to ur post tonight, i think it's an interesting topic but at work and can't type a proper reply atm


hey congrats!

boy or girl?


no reason

it shouldn't even allow you to afaik

yeah i'm reading this PR thread about it saying we'd own both versions but it's letting me buy the new one in the live shop

Original owners will get the “vintage” version of her updated model and the new version as well.
 

Ken

Member
I'll buy it because I want every Riven skin. I'm a Riven main though so....

reading the worlds site it sounds like we're not getting the "new" skin

Even though we’re excited about bringing Riven back, we want to make sure that players who have owned her for all these years get something special to show that off. With that in mind, all players who currently own Championship Riven will get a special edition legacy Riven and a vintage loading screen border.
 

Neol

Member
so which of these esports team skins are actually worth getting?

Partial to the TPA skins as the color scheme is great and the little details are cool too like Ez having a foam finger, Shen autoattacks sounding like a bat swings and Mundo throwing the trophy.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
reading the worlds site it sounds like we're not getting the "new" skin

Yeah. Feels bad.

The old one has the Tiara and if you don't have her icon then you would also get that along with the updated vfx and textures.

The new one is basically the same with the old one except she has no tiara and loading screen.

It's fine to have the new one for sale but I personally think that a tiara and a loading screen isn't sufficient for old time owners. It was the last limited skin. I only started playing at the start of Season 5 so it was impossible for me to have cs riven. I only got it a few months ago because of a local event. The skin came with the most expensive ticket to that event and the tickets were very limited too. CS riven was a status symbol. It showed that you were serious enough with Riven that you spent a ton of money for the skin or that you were a veteran player of League. That symbol was very short lived for me.
 

Ken

Member
Yeah. Feels bad.

The old one has the Tiara and if you don't have her icon then you would also get that along with the updated vfx and textures.

The new one is basically the same with the old one except she has no tiara and loading screen.

It's fine to have the new one for sale but I personally think that a tiara and a loading screen isn't sufficient for old time owners. It was the last limited skin. I only started playing at the start of Season 5 so it was impossible for me to have cs riven. I only got it a few months ago because of a local event. The skin came with the most expensive ticket to that event and the tickets were very limited too. CS riven was a status symbol. It showed that you were serious enough with Riven that you spent a ton of money for the skin or that you were a veteran player of League. That symbol was very short lived for me.

:(
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Yeah. Feels bad.

The old one has the Tiara and if you don't have her icon then you would also get that along with the updated vfx and textures.

The new one is basically the same with the old one except she has no tiara and loading screen.

It's fine to have the new one for sale but I personally think that a tiara and a loading screen isn't sufficient for old time owners. It was the last limited skin. I only started playing at the start of Season 5 so it was impossible for me to have cs riven. I only got it a few months ago because of a local event. The skin came with the most expensive ticket to that event and the tickets were very limited too. CS riven was a status symbol. It showed that you were serious enough with Riven that you spent a ton of money for the skin or that you were a veteran player of League. That symbol was very short lived for me.
idk i get what u mean but i think fake exclusivity for virtual goods is really bad and exploitative so why not let everyone be happy

like exclusivity is not a good trait to have, let's all enjoy good skins!
 
I mean, they've been talking for years that CS Riven wouldn't be limited forever and we'd get her back on the store by the time we had a full team worth of skins. Paying a lot of money for it isn't really a symbol of status.

I'm getting an exclusive version of the skin with special effects that will never be sold, that's good enough for me.
 
I still think that limited stuff should be only on ward skins and/or icons.

It feels bad when you can't get this awesome skin for your favorite champion. Honestly I'm kind of expecting the skin reward for gold and above to maybe become a problem one day. Like someone starts playing League on 2018, and he gets challenger that year but won't ever have Victorious Elise, for example.
 
idk i get what u mean but i think fake exclusivity for virtual goods is really bad and exploitative so why not let everyone be happy

like exclusivity is not a good trait to have, let's all enjoy good skins!

Thats for console games

For cosmetic shit? Exclusivity is the rocks
 
I still think that limited stuff should be limited to ward skins and/or icons.

It feels bad when you can't get this awesome skin for your favorite champion. Honestly I'm kind of expecting the skin reward for gold and above to maybe become a problem one day.
Riot doesn't make limited skins anymore for a reason. Now only Black Ali, Rusty Blitz, Trophy Ryze, PAX Jax and PAX Sivir remain but those are never coming back.

That's besides the special ranked skins, those should never come back.
 
Riot doesn't make limited skins anymore for a reason. Now only Black Ali, Rusty Blitz, Trophy Ryze, PAX Jax and PAX Sivir remain but those are never coming back.

Yeah, but I still think that Victorious skins will become a problem someday. In 5 years, if someone starts playing league there will be many awesome skins that he/she won't be able to ever get. Even if it's our new demon king that defeats Faker and brings the Summoner Cup to NA for the first time ever.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
I get that.

I mean if I didn't have the old version of CS riven, I would be jumping for joy as well. It feels bittersweet.

As a riven player, I feel that both sides are correct yet wrong as well. You can't satisfy both because they really like that character. I mean if I didn't have it, I'd call those that have arrogant. Since I have it though, it's pride for me. It's very self centered I guess. It's an emotional investment. Just like the PAX skins, having a limited skin makes you feel good just because it's a limited skin.

Typical riven player mentality. Always want to be the better than other people.

In the long run, I think it's a great decision especially for the masses of people that haven't bought it. It makes more players happy and makes money for riot as well.
 
Yeah, but I still think that Victorious skins will become a problem someday. In 5 years, if someone starts playing league there will be many awesome skins that he/she won't be able to ever get. Even if it's our new demon king that defeats Faker and brings the Summoner Cup to NA for the first time ever.
60%+ of the playerbase can't get those skins right now, someome being able to get them in the future wouldn't be fair at all.
 

Leezard

Member
I think it's great that the skins aren't limited anymore too. A couple of years ago I liked the exclusivity for having Kitty Katarina, people would comment about it ingame, etc. I'm glad other people get to have this tasteless skin now too, and I'll just use Bilgewater when I get her in ARAM.

Victorious skins are whatever, they are not very exclusive nor are they very good looking, so it's not like people are missing stuff by not having them. The only really nice one is Victorious Janna. Victorious Jarvan is kinda plain, especially when there exist Lu Bu Jarvan. It's a cool reward for being there, though.
 

Quonny

Member
Limited skins are fine.

If they want to re-release limited skins, make the originals have a unique particle, splash art, or something.
 
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