SenorArdilla
Member
It is.
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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
If the cooldown stays low it is easy to keep it as an option. There are definitely use cases where it could trick someone.
SenorArdilla
Member
Use it as a blue trinket, maybe?
MrCookiepants
Member
So they basically killed Leblanc's early lane dominance with Q,W,W combo being nerfed. Sigil can't be proc'd instantly and W can't be reactivated instantly, so the combo is much slower and the opponent has time to trade back before she poofs away. W base damage also seems to be nerfed.
I guess she has waveclear now so she won't have to rely on chunking enemy laner with no counterplay anymore.
Edit: Probably obvious, but because the sigil has a delay she also can't instantly proc thunderlords. Massive nerf to her early game.
I guess she has waveclear now so she won't have to rely on chunking enemy laner with no counterplay anymore.
Edit: Probably obvious, but because the sigil has a delay she also can't instantly proc thunderlords. Massive nerf to her early game.
Xamtheking
Member
PARKOUR
Peanut Butter
Member
30 seconds of stealth and CC immunity for 1.5 seconds is all the fun/new tricks I need =)
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Only because they're the only ones there
Trust me, as more champions get more unique mechanics, it'll all balance out.
WHEN EVERYTHINGS BROKEN, NOTHING IS. TEAR IT ALL DOWN! BLOT OUT THE SUN!
Trust me this is a better direction for League. It's why HotS is so fun. In vacuums, alot of kits are straight up broken, but outside of that vacuum, they work and are balanced more or less
PhillipCostigan
Member
I mean I dislike Malz passive, but they're so different in their use cases and the champions are so different you can't really compare them. Apples to oranges etc. etc.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
COSTY BACK ME UP ON THIS
IN YOUR GAMEPLAY ITERATION STUDIES, ISN'T THERE SOMETHING IN THERE THAT SAYS UNIQUE IS FUN EVEN THOUGH IN A VACUUM IT MAY SOUND/BE BROKEN?
it's on a separate cd so who cares lol
yea i just call it bkb cos bkb sounds cool
Stone Ocean
Member
I don't see the problem with Rengar W. He needs to have fully stacked ferocity and has to sacrifice his damage for a cleanse. Its situational and has clear drawbacks.
Also I don't see how a fake gank every 2 and a half minutes is useless, specially for an assassin that loves to roam.
Also I don't see how a fake gank every 2 and a half minutes is useless, specially for an assassin that loves to roam.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Of course unique is fun. That's what distinguishes champions from each other, it's one of the main points of the assassin rework itself. However being unique shouldn't be an excuse for bad design. I don't think Rengar W is bad design btw. giving a situational defensive ability for an assassin that can only go in with no out feels pretty fair to me, especially since to get the cc removal and immunity he has to sacrifice significant damage or cc. There are actual meaningful tradeoffs there.
Malz passive I really dislike and I want to ask the designer his reasoning behind it.
Having said that not every ability needs to have counterplay either. Sometimes reliability is needed on a champ, which I guess was perhaps one of the goals for the Malz passive, to give him some sort of reliability, but I feel like it's not particularly fun to play against.
anyway turning into rambling but yeah unique stuff is awesome as long as you don't sacrifice good design.
PhillipCostigan
Member
but one of Jhin's skills is pretty bad design, I think
let's see if you can guess what it is and why
Stone Ocean
Member
Malz passive exists so his ult isn't as easily interruptable on cast. Its meant to give him a way to protect himself against buffered spells cancelling the channel.
The problem is Malz shouldn't have been given abilities to support a kit that needs to be taken out back and shot to begin with.
The problem is Malz shouldn't have been given abilities to support a kit that needs to be taken out back and shot to begin with.
man why does riot need to set up play restrictions on pbe
he got buffed in all the worst possible ways
lol
malzahar needed a complete rework
he got buffed in all the worst possible ways
lol
BreezyLimbo
Banned
the one thing I would fix about malz's ult, is to enable the old passive over it-That is, X number of spell casts are required before it appears. Granted it might need a slight buff to compensate for the fact that it's not up all the damn time.
I'm gonna say it's his Q. It's damage buff is restricted to deaths which can only be reliably gained through minions, it's targetting is random, the bounce of it is incredibly short for what it is, and in team fights it requires him to be pretty close to use it.
(My back up answer is his W)
better not be his ult because it's super satisfying
his w is his only peel and hard to hit and fits the theme of a sniper, so not that
his e is the obvious answer because it's zzz but i feel like you're baiting me
so, his q, because grenades are stupid and close ranged and have a weird bounce mechanic that's useless in teamfights
killatopak
Gold Member
Jungle Talon meta in season 7.
sort of, it's bad for the 1v1, pretty good to escape ganks and play off 2v2s that get pushed into the river (as they tend to do)
other than that he's basically tf now lol
PhillipCostigan
Member
Sure I get that, reliability and all, but I dislike it when you pair it with super powerful cc like suppression, where one of the counters to suppression is cc and interrupts. Especially since with suppression you have to buy a QSS to actually counter it yourself. Imagine Warwick ult if he was cc immune. No thank you.
Nope, Jhin Q is awesome. Super satisfying skill.
He's meant to roam.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
fite me
Prob not what you're thinking, but I'd say his ult has some dumb parts to it. It's both a ridiculously good initiating tool (four shots with 80% slow LOL) and clean up skill. Often, Jhin doesn't even have to be near the fight to have a giant impact, which is basically the opposite job of an ADC.
edit: welp
PhillipCostigan
Member
It's his ult. Getting hit by long range shots from multiple screens away is really shitty, since there is no interaction with Jhin at all. Especially if you're a squishy target since you can be realistically killed from like 60% health by a champion that's completely outside of your range. It slowing when it hits you makes it worse, since if they hit the first you're likely fucked.
It has a lot of the same issues old Nidalee spears had. "I'm being hit by this nuke from a champion that's so far away I can't even interact with them"
sure it feels cool for Jhin, but it's pretty poor design imo
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I was about to say this, no fair!
Yeah, his ult has no real 'counterplay' for it, and it's usually instantaneous that he fires it and more or less the speed of the bullet immediately hits the target.
To compare to an example in HotS, Nazeebo has a similar abililty. He channels a spirit that does AoE damage and he can move around him for about 8 seconds(No limit in distance).
The difference is that the the range he casts in isn't nearly as huge as Jhins, and since it has to 'travel' to the location it's telegraphed and can be dodged. But in that case, it's not as badly designed because there's a plethora of ways to stop him from channeling it.
Also Jhins ult has gotten nerfed over time >_> THAT WAS MY REAL SECOND ANSWER.
Sigismundo
Member
Speaking of unique I wonder what happened to Xypherous' thought experiments on Skeleton King/Wraith King and Invoker in League. They'd never happen but back in the day I was curious how he'd do it.
Also unique is good, do more of that
Also unique is good, do more of that
Either make Jhin's ult slow scale with missing health, or lower the base slow and increase it when hitting marked targets. The CC is the worst part of it. I can potentially dodge 4 line skillshots, even from a screen away, but giving them all an 80% slow is insane. I also think Jhin should be revealed to the enemy team when ulting (you can already pretty much tell by the ult indicator) - give him a cool spotlight or something so it fits thematically.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
In that he gets a new set of abilities each year
ya
In a vacuum that component makes sense-to help Jhin land his other shots. But in practice it's pretty broken.
Stone Ocean
Member
I mean, you can tell exactly where he's shooting from, the exact range of the bullets, bullets can be blocked and dodged and so on. Unlike Nidalee spears you'll never be caught by surprise, the moment he presses R you're given time to act accordingly.
That said, I do think that he gets waaaaay too much time to fire the shots. It needs to be more like Karthus passive, waste time and no 4th shot for you.
That said, I do think that he gets waaaaay too much time to fire the shots. It needs to be more like Karthus passive, waste time and no 4th shot for you.
Can't argue with that. The slow is honestly the worst part. One shot should not equal four shots, because if you get that first one, you basically won. You can outplay one, but can you outplay 3+?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
There's not alot of long range CC that will prevent him from casting it tho, and the area is wide enough that it is a realistic problem.
Sigismundo
Member
You're gonna have to explain that one to me.
killatopak
Gold Member
PhillipCostigan
Member
lol
Twitch is super cool, very unique for an ADC and makes meaningful tradeoffs for his strong cases. Jhin's ult is bad, but overall Jhin himself is so cool. Feels like no other ADC, super satisfying to play, his basic kit (aka minus ult) is really cool and he makes a lot of tradeoffs for his power
Draven is awesome, yeah.
Kalista is so hard to figure out. She's a mess. Her original design goals don't mesh with what she eventually became and while there's cool stuff there she needs a lot of work for her to be healthy in the game imo.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Skills that work together in different ways where each particular combo has different use cases and a lot of the mastery of the champion comes from knowing the combos, the best use case for each, and being able to execute on that in high-pressure situations.
It's like Invoker without the fat. Don't think Invoker himself would work in League.
edit: oops double post
Xamtheking
Member
I've been applying to the PBE for months
Costy plz
Costy plz
Sigismundo
Member
Well, that does make more sense. I've heard Lulu being described as the Invoker of League before in a conversation with a Rioter and I can see that from that perspective as well.
I'd have to disagree with the comparison. Nid spears appeared out of nowhere from fog of war with no cues or anything.
Pretty much everyone knows when Jhin is ulting. I love the whole team body blocking for the squishies or low hp members aspect of it as a "counterplay" it's a pretty good team interaction I think.
as i understand invoker, at least
nu ryze has different combos based on the order he shoots his abilities and has to consistently be switching ability orders according to the situation
u want to waveclear? e a minion, e it again then q
u want to do a short trade? w e q someone to get a short root and a big chunk off his q, plus the shield and back off speed up on his double rune q
u want to pick someone off/assist a gank? e w q e q to get the long root then follow up with q to reset e and then q again for e-q dmg.
or you can skip the reset and use the speed off e w q to chase/run
there's a few other things with like using aoe e's and q's to poke
obviously not exactly the same but i think he matches some of the idea of having a bunch of combos and be smart about using the correct one at the right time, and also that you're always making tradeoffs (mostly it's about cc vs dmg)
i like nu ryze a bunch
lulu don't fit cos she just has a large toolset because all her abilities have multiple uses. she's a really cool champion but i don't think she feels like invoker