Support NeoGAF

[Leezard]

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.c...ion-knights-vow-ardent-censer-crucible-locket

Support item changes are dope. They're getting cheaper overall and we're seeing some general changes on them.

Ardent Censer

Combine Cost :: 700 >> 600
Total Cost :: 2400 >> 2300
Heal and Shield Power :: 15% >> 10%
Passive Attack Speed :: 25% >> 20%
Passive Magic Damage :; 25 >> 20
Passive Magic Damage :: Is now a Drain effect, causing the attacker to heal for 20 whenever he attacks as well as deal 20 magic damage.

Ardent censer now gives extra health on-hit to the attacker, that's dope.

Athene's is getting cheaper and Mikael's has more increased healing but no more heal on the active.

Mikael's Crucible

Combine Cost :: 650 >> 500
Total Cost :: 2400 >> 2100
Heal and Shield Power :: 15% >> 20%
Active CD :: 180 >> 120
Active Healing :: No longer heals
Active Effect :: Now grants 2 second of slow immunity to the target as well as cleansing it
Active Effect :: Successfully cleansing an effect will also grant the target 40% movement speed for 2 seconds
Active Effect :: No longer has a travel time

The cleanse is quite strong right now, but it should also solidify Athene's as the premium increased healing item for supports that also does some aggressive stuff (Nami, Lulu, Karma).

Ardent censer is looking quite crazy. That's a lot of healing on hit.

 

[Sr Kitsune]

This is how Draven is done properly. That FQ claim is definitely gonna save you from Draven/Leona, Velkoz :^).



Corgi went 0/10 and got placed in silver 1, you have a shot lol.

Well my plan was to finish my placements tonight but ranked is down. I forgot it was patch time.

Also I'm now 1-7, 1-9 the dream.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

1-6 on my placements.

Is there any hope for Gold?

yes.

 

[MrCookiepants]

anyone that wants to play with me and let me try out lebonk pls add me on pbe

my user is zkylonbeta

Do you have any impressions yet?

I'm trying to watch Pawnce play it, but he's just feeding and whining about having to play Leblanc because he doesn't like her (even though he admitted to only playing her once before the rework). So I'm not getting any useful insight there, lol.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Lucian definitely does not fall off late even with the Ghostblade build, his whole problem pre nerf was that he was a lane bully that never stopped being good out of lane.

 

[jerd]

Holy shit i just saw Leblanc's RR that's great. Probably mostly worthless but I can't wait to see all the flashes burned by people thinking they're getting ganked

 

[Xeilyn]

Wow at all these changes, really like new Kat and Talon, though kat seems a bit broken. Hardly play rengar or LB but those looks good overall aswell.

I guess I will play alot more Liss in the future to crush the upcoming kat players

EDIT: Also Alistar changes are awsome and although Akali needs a major rework i might play her now since she might be a little bit more viable

 

[Terbinator]

You don't really need to snowball, you'll be okay coming out even since his midgame is pretty good, but if you get behind it's hellish.

#bringbackthebleed

 

[Stone Ocean]

Akali probably lost whatever viability she had lol

No more spell vamp so her laning got even worse and her TTK got extended so its a lot harder to snowball. Maybe her tank build will be good if she survives early top lane but I don't see her having much fun against current meta champions.

 

[Leezard]

Akali probably lost whatever viability she had lol

No more spell vamp so her laning got even worse and her TTK got extended so its a lot harder to snowball. Maybe her tank build will be good if she survives early top lane but I don't see her having much fun against current meta champions.

It's fair since she lost the other counterplay, pink wards. She needs a big rework.

 

[drawkcaB]

unfortunately it's not really worth supporting and porting a feature that so few people use, but we are still supporting third party tools (Championnify I think was one?) that allow you to do so if you really want to. It sucks for the few people that do use it, but that number was so few that it's just not really feasible to allocate time to it unfortunately.


and yeah that just sounds like a shitty draven.

Sadly, championify isn't a suitable replacement. My own custom sets aren't just copies of whatever is on champion.gg. They're composed of items that I've determined are strong on a given champion through research and experimentation.

It sucks, straight up.

 

[Xeilyn]

Akali probably lost whatever viability she had lol

No more spell vamp so her laning got even worse and her TTK got extended so its a lot harder to snowball. Maybe her tank build will be good if she survives early top lane but I don't see her having much fun against current meta champions.

Well i dont feel confident enough in the game yet so i dont play ranked, only normal draft so i very rarely face people that punish champs with a bad laning phase.

When ive played Akali everyone seem to know about the pink ward though so i havent played her much, with that removed i wont have that problem. She is the only champ ive gotten a penta with so she holds a special place in my heart since during my 28 years of gaming ive never had the same rush as when i got that penta.

No pink ward = More Akali for me

 

[SenorArdilla]

Shaco and Akali are probably getting VGUs somewhere down the line so the changes are whatever.

EDIT:
Bard does so much damage early on. What the hell.

 

[Fracas]

I'm sure I'm not playing her right, but new Kat feels completely useless pre 6.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I'm sure I'm not playing her right, but new Kat feels completely useless pre 6.

Just like old kat

 

[Fracas]

Just like old kat

Nah I mean like advanced useless

If you get behind or the other laner has some kind of zone control, you aren't picking up those daggers so your only real dmg source is the q bounce. Old Kat could at least kind of farm with the q-w

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Nah I mean like advanced useless

If you get behind or the other laner has some kind of zone control, you aren't picking up those daggers so your only real dmg source is the q bounce. Old Kat could at least kind of farm with the q-w

Sounds lime theyre doubling down onher being an assassin and getting kills tbat way compared to being able to farm efficiently

...incoming jungle kat?

 

[SenorArdilla]

Can't kite mobs since Q always lands behind them. W takes way too long. E is weak by itself.

 

[TheFlow]

As a support playing with a great adc gives me life! Someone who can make plays and put confidence in the team <3.

 

[ChrisD]

Riot why'd you have to make Yorick's Wall block Sona's Ult maaaaaan.

Just went against a team who had a Yasuo and Yorick. Yas is annoying enough, but I tilted so hard when I saw my R dissipate to another guy's basic ability.

I think if Braum was in the game as well I would have just curled up and died

 

[Stone Ocean]

Uhh Yorick wall doesn't block abilities. At best it interrupts dashes.

 

[Orochinagis]

Great, a new ward type, supports have to deal with less space now

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.c...ion-knights-vow-ardent-censer-crucible-locket

Support item changes are dope. They're getting cheaper overall and we're seeing some general changes on them.


Ardent censer now gives extra health on-hit to the attacker, that's dope.

Athene's is getting cheaper and Mikael's has more increased healing but no more heal on the active.

The cleanse is quite strong right now, but it should also solidify Athene's as the premium increased healing item for supports that also does some aggressive stuff (Nami, Lulu, Karma).

Ardent censer is looking quite crazy. That's a lot of healing on hit.

Rioit should make the discount prices for supports role only to avoid to get abused and return to their normal prices.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Great, a new ward type, supports have to deal with less space now

New ward is replacing pinks

 

[Orochinagis]

New ward is replacing pinks

So huh, how we can see invisible units now?

 

[Stone Ocean]

So huh, how we can see invisible units now?

You don't, only abilities like Lee E or Sweepers can see them

 

[Hydrophobic]

So huh, how we can see invisible units now?

You can't. The point is that people with the short like 1-10 second invisibility are actually invisible now. One champ's ability isn't invalidated by a pink ward, and this (theoretically) allows them to be more aggressive about balancing other parts of their kit because the character is no longer invalidated by a pink ward.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You can't. The point is that people with the short like 1-10 second invisibility are actually invisible now. One champ's ability isn't invalidated by a pink ward, and this (theoretically) allows them to be more aggressive about balancing other parts of their kit because the character is no longer invalidated by a pink ward.

We'll see how long this lasts. Invisibility with no real counter-play available to everyone in the game doesn't sit well with me on paper.

 

[Hydrophobic]

We'll see how long this lasts. Invisibility with no real counter-play available to everyone in the game doesn't sit well with me on paper.

It doesn't with me either. I just think that if the short invisibility isn't negated by vision ward that hopefully gives some leeway to lower characters damage. That's my hope for this change.

 

[Tizoc]

Yo hold up

Was Crit Talon ever a thing?

Also can Talon vault over turrets?

Also holy shit at the Twitch buffs

Ambush (Q):
Now Camouflages Twitch for 10/11/12/13/14 seconds instead of stealthing for 4/5/6/7/8.
Bonus Movement speed lowered to 10% from 20%
[NEW] Now triples movement speed bonus when near enemy champions who can not see him.

Venom Cask (W):
Now leaves a zone on the ground for 3 seconds, adding poison over time and slowing those in it:
Adds stack of Deadly Venom (P) on hit.
Adds an additional stack of Deadly Venom (P) each second while in cloud.
Slow increased to 40/45/50/55/60% from 25/30/35/40/45%

Redemption sounds like it'd be gross on a Soraka.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

We'll see how long this lasts. Invisibility with no real counter-play available to everyone in the game doesn't sit well with me on paper.

You'll be ok

HotS has 2 characters that are permastealthed except when doing actions, and then after a 3 second timer go back to perma stealth. And there aren't even wards in that game!

You'll be ok.

 

[ChrisD]

Uhh Yorick wall doesn't block abilities. At best it interrupts dashes.

My thing just dissipated right from where I spawned it tho.
Maybe Yas' Wind Wall was in that phase where it's just going down but the active box is still there (that's annoying btw but I know that it just poofing out of existence would look dumb)? I know there wasn't a full Wind wall for sure.

 

[Hydrophobic]

You'll be ok

HotS has 2 characters that are permastealthed except when doing actions, and then after a 3 second timer go back to perma stealth. And there aren't even wards in that game!

You'll be ok.

HotS also has a shimmer that lets players who are paying attention get a general idea where the stealth heroes are.

 

[Leezard]

We'll see how long this lasts. Invisibility with no real counter-play available to everyone in the game doesn't sit well with me on paper.

Is there any hero in Dota 2 that has "super-invisibility", i.e. can't be discovered by gem?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

HotS also has a shimmer that lets players who are paying attention get a general idea where the stealth heroes are.

What I'm saying is that League should have a shimmer.

Who would be the champions with real stealth? Akali, Shaco...their stealth only lasts seconds at a time.

Is there any hero in Dota 2 that has "super-invisibility", i.e. can't be discovered by gem?

There's LifeStealer, who can hide in other units and not even the gem can discern where he is. Broodmother has stealth as long as she's in her webs, but I'm pretty sure gems can spot her.

I guess Lifestealer is the closest to being the only hero with 'perma' stealth in the sense that he can hide and not be spotted by enemies, no matter what they use.

 

[Hydrophobic]

What I'm saying is that League should have a shimmer.

Who would be the champions with real stealth? Akali, Shaco...their stealth only lasts seconds at a time.



There's LifeStealer, who can hide in other units and not even the gem can discern where he is. Broodmother has stealth as long as she's in her webs, but I'm pretty sure gems can spot her.

I guess Lifestealer is the closest to being the only hero with 'perma' stealth in the sense that he can hide and not be spotted by enemies, no matter what they use.

Yeah, there's also methods to see the stealthed champions in HotS as well (those drones, Tassadar's passive). It's not available to all characters, but there aren't characters that are 100% undetectable during certain situations (Unless Samuro works differently, which I wouldn't know).

Lifestealer is probably a fair comparison, though devour isn't used as a stealth in most scenarios it just happens to work that way.

 

[Leezard]

What I'm saying is that League should have a shimmer.

Who would be the champions with real stealth? Akali, Shaco...their stealth only lasts seconds at a time.



There's LifeStealer, who can hide in other units and not even the gem can discern where he is. Broodmother has stealth as long as she's in her webs, but I'm pretty sure gems can spot her.

I guess Lifestealer is the closest to being the only hero with 'perma' stealth in the sense that he can hide and not be spotted by enemies, no matter what they use.

Hm, I guess Naix is kinda close then. I didn't think of calling his hiding stuff a type of invisibility, but it could be.

I was thinking Slark or Riki or someone whose identity is invisibility might have something like that, but I don't know for sure since I haven't played in a while.

 

[ChrisD]

Is there any hero in Dota 2 that has "super-invisibility", i.e. can't be discovered by gem?

Unless something has changed, Slark. It's his Ultimate and it lasted for a few seconds (but I think it ended up being pretty high like 10 or so).

Edit: Well, kind of. I don't think you could see him on the map/with wards, but if you were near him and he popped it you could see the giant black smoke cloud that spawned around him.

 

[Hydrophobic]

Hm, I guess Naix is kinda close then. I didn't think of calling his hiding stuff a type of invisibility, but it could be.

I was thinking Slark or Riki or someone whose identity is invisibility might have something like that, but I don't know for sure since I haven't played in a while.

Riki is like the definition of use vision to counter him. He's a pubstomper in low MMR because people are terrible about buying dust and vision. Slark becomes untarget-able but doesn't have an actual stealth (though he does buy Shadowblade sometimes). You know where he is at all times during his ult if he's in vision.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Yeah, there's also methods to see the stealthed champions in HotS as well (those drones, Tassadar's passive). It's not available to all characters, but there aren't characters that are 100% undetectable during certain situations (Unless Samuro works differently, which I wouldn't know).

Lifestealer is probably a fair comparison, though devour isn't used as a stealth in most scenarios it just happens to work that way.

Yeah, Leagues analogues would be Lee/Caitlyns Traps for being able to spot stealth.

Maybe even Rengar can see stealthed champions? Or is his new ult only effective on visible enemies closest to him? Either way, perma stealth can work in League, it's just a matter of balancing it right. If there's ever a perma stealth champion, they have to be absolutely squishy. There is the problem of items and itemization as a tank, but you can balance that but reducing effectiveness of tank items on perma stealth items(Ie Eve can have huge base damage while being perma stealth, but be absolutely squishly, and if you tried to build her tank, you would get reduced effectiveness from tank items, maybe like a 50% reduction.)

HotS doesn't have that problem as there are no items to buy, so it's easier to tune stealth heroes in that way. league can do it too with some concessions. It could open up the design for gameplay for sure.

rito hire me.

Unless something has changed, Slark. It's his Ultimate and it lasted for a few seconds (but I think it ended up being pretty high like 10 or so).

Edit: Well, kind of. I don't think you could see him on the map/with wards, but if you were near him and he popped it you could see the giant black smoke cloud that spawned around him.

That's right, Slark. His invisibility only lasts 4 seconds, and the black smoke he leaves behind is visible(IE a tell for opponents that can be spotted by wards, and you can surmise where he's coming from.) So it's pretty well balanced in that regard for undetectable invisibility.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Is there any hero in Dota 2 that has "super-invisibility", i.e. can't be discovered by gem?

Slark except he has a giant ass black cloud showing where he is when he ults.

 

[Orochinagis]

You'll be ok

HotS has 2 characters that are permastealthed except when doing actions, and then after a 3 second timer go back to perma stealth. And there aren't even wards in that game!

You'll be ok.

But HoTS gives you a hint where they are so you can cast a skillshot or cast a skill to make that area visible like Malfurion or Tassadar (without counting you can cast a visible ward) to make them visible but in LoL some champs dont have that type of skillshot to spot them like Sona

 

[Leezard]

Unless something has changed, Slark. It's his Ultimate and it lasted for a few seconds (but I think it ended up being pretty high like 10 or so).

Edit: Well, kind of. I don't think you could see him on the map/with wards, but if you were near him and he popped it you could see the giant black smoke cloud that spawned around him.

Riki is like the definition of use vision to counter him. He's a pubstomper in low MMR because people are terrible about buying dust and vision. Slark becomes untarget-able but doesn't have an actual stealth (though he does buy Shadowblade sometimes). You know where he is at all times during his ult if he's in vision.

Slark except he has a giant ass black cloud showing where he is when he ults.

All right, cool. So there's not really anything exactly like this.

Let's hope these invisibility champs won't become complete bullshit. But it's only like Akali, Talon, Shaco, Kha'zix, right?

 

[Hydrophobic]

All right, cool. So there's not really anything exactly like this.

Let's hope these invisibility champs won't become complete bullshit. But it's only like Akali, Talon, Shaco, Kha'zix, right?

I think Teemo's passive also works like this because otherwise it would be literally useless. You're also forgetting Vayne and Twitch I'm pretty sure.

 

[Leezard]

I think Teemo's passive also works like this because otherwise it would be literally useless. You're also forgetting Vayne and Twitch I'm pretty sure.

Oh yeah, I forgot Vayne and Teemo.

Twitch has camouflage, not invisibility.

 

[Hydrophobic]

Oh yeah, I forgot Vayne and Teemo.

Twitch has camouflage, not invisibility.

I wasn't sure about twitch, but that's good to know given the length of his stealth.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

But HoTS gives you a hint where they are so you can cast a skillshot or cast a skill to make that area visible like Malfurion or Tassadar (without counting you can cast a visible ward) to make them visible but in LoL some champs dont have that type of skillshot to spot them like Sona

I would be fine if League added a Shimmer. And the majority of 'in meta' champions have skill shots/targeted ability. The only ones that done are...Gangplank, irelia, Kindred, Shaco, Lucian, Yi, Teemo...a few others

But basically the majority of champions have an untargetted skill shot/aoe skill that damages around them, meaning that if there were true stealthed champions that 'shimmered', it would be balanced in a way? Since the majority of champions can knock em out, it's not that big of a problem.

And again on the tank side, reduce the effectiveness of tank items on perma stealthed champions, and even if they tried to build tank, it wouldn't be cost effective.

It can work.

 

[Orochinagis]

The new stealth changes would be a good excuse to release a vision type support champion.

I would be fine if League added a Shimmer. And the majority of 'in meta' champions have skill shots/targeted ability. The only ones that done are...Gangplank, irelia, Kindred, Shaco, Lucian, Yi, Teemo...a few others

But basically the majority of champions have an untargetted skill shot/aoe skill that damages around them, meaning that if there were true stealthed champions that 'shimmered', it would be balanced in a way? Since the majority of champions can knock em out, it's not that big of a problem.

And again on the tank side, reduce the effectiveness of tank items on perma stealthed champions, and even if they tried to build tank, it wouldn't be cost effective.

It can work.

The problem would be to make items being available for certain lanes or champs since the items are free for everyone except Jungle items

 

[Talents]

Jesus, I'm smurfing at a low gold - plat level atm and it's so painful. The players never listen and always think they know best so they won't go for plays/objectives when you tell them to. Also why is it always just a dance mid? I thought that shit stopped by silver.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The problem would be to make items being available for certain lanes or champs since the items are free for everyone except Jungle items

That would totally kill experimentation, but that would be one way to do it. But that would be too far tbh. Just like how only people with Smite can buy jungle items, if there was a perma stealth character, then they could only buy items fit for their class, IE if it's an AD stealth, then only AD items are available to them.The other way would be to reduce effectiveness of tank items specifically for stealth, as it would be the antithesis to what a stealth champion is(Sneaky, quiet, light).

 

[Fracas]

Yellowstar retired

One of my favorite LCS players. Sad to see him go.