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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.

W

Wolf Akela

Member
Aatrox has such a boring kit. Aside from Blood Well and maaaaaybe Q, there's nothing exceptional in his kit that defines him or is very thematic. He just feels like a worse Xin Zhao.

E or R or both could be something that feels more like you're laying waste on the battle grounds. Not essentially damaging, but more like something that that looks or feels like it makes a lot of impact. W needs a lot of work to make it not boring.
 
T

Talents

Banned
I don't think it's stupid at all if you consider what Riot is making. Maybe not 700k, but definitely more than what they are currently paying teams.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Talents said:
I don't think it's stupid at all if you consider what Riot is making. Maybe not 700k, but definitely more than what they are currently paying teams.
Click to expand...

Yup.

They are making millions upon millions. Upon millions. Add 50 million to that. Add some more millions. Let's add in the revenue from China and Korea. Add a few million to that.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
Riot is likely losing millions a year from the LCS.

That said, it's basically marketing for them. So I think talking $$$ is a little simplistic.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Quonny said:
Riot is likely losing millions a year from the LCS.

That said, it's basically marketing for them. So I think talking $$$ is a little simplistic.
Click to expand...

Now are they losing millions from LCS because they don't recoup the money from LCS directly

Or is LCS simply an investment, that they make money off it's mere existence(Even if it's not directly from LCS)?
 
Q

Quonny

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Now are they losing millions from LCS because they don't recoup the money from LCS directly

Or is LCS simply an investment, that they make money off it's mere existence(Even if it's not directly from LCS)?
Click to expand...

The latter.

I'm not saying that the end result of the LCS doesn't turn a profit. By keeping people invested in the LCS they are keeping people invested in their game and thus people are more likely to buy skins, merch, whatever. Or even something as nebulous as playing drawing in friends to play and thus growing the playerbase.

But the direct money made from the LCS from ticket sales and LCS merchandise is likely a small percentage of what Riot spends on production, salaries (both players and LCS crew), venues, equipment, and so on.

That's why I think arguing dollars is reducing the argument too much. I'm all for paying the players more, but we don't know how much of an effect the LCS on profits for League of Legends as a whole. Riot has these numbers. That doesn't mean that they're NOT profiting, but we just don't know.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Quonny said:
The latter.

I'm not saying that the end result of the LCS doesn't turn a profit. By keeping people invested in the LCS they are keeping people invested in their game and thus people are more likely to buy skins, merch, whatever. Or even something as nebulous as playing drawing in friends to play and thus growing the playerbase.

But the direct money made from the LCS from ticket sales and LCS merchandise is likely a small percentage of what Riot spends on production, salaries (both players and LCS crew), venues, equipment, and so on.

That's why I think arguing dollars is reducing the argument too much. I'm all for paying the players more, but we don't know how much of an effect the LCS on profits for League of Legends as a whole. Riot has these numbers. That doesn't mean that they're NOT profiting, but we just don't know.
Click to expand...

Occams Razor dictates that that since LCS is still continuing, that Riot is turning a profit that validates its existence.

It's that simple. Riot isn't a charity, they wouldn't keep running LCS if it wasn't turning a profit, or causing profits to spike while it's going on. Sure I bet it can get deeper than that, but it's what it boils down to.
 
Q

Quonny

Member
BreezyLimbo said:
Occams Razor dictates that that since LCS is still continuing, that Riot is turning a profit that validates its existence.

It's that simple. Riot isn't a charity, they wouldn't keep running LCS if it wasn't turning a profit, or causing profits to spike while it's going on. Sure I bet it can get deeper than that, but it's what it boils down to.
Click to expand...
I mean, this isn't a fact. Lots of companies invest in ideas or technologies in the hopes that one day they will turn a profit or change the landscape so they can eventually take advantage of it.

Do I think that's the case here? No idea. But just going "lol they make millions pay the players more!" is reducing the argument far too much. If they don't value the LCS as much as other areas, they're going to invest that money elsewhere.
 
D

Dobkeratops

OT Hard Carry
"I'll just do a quick aram for the 150 ip bonus"

wTvq3Gj.jpg
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
dimb said:
It's better not to get swept up in sunk cost fallacy. There is limited room to work with when it comes to Aatrox compared to the exceptionally old kits like Sion. Aatrox is pretty well defined but he never really picked up a fan base, and the kit is just not interesting enough to merit an overhaul. At a certain point it is better to just make a new champion instead of rehashing ideas that failed to hit the first time around.
Click to expand...
idk i like to think there should be no champion left behind and that all of them have things that are salvageable (even rengar)

like i said i'm super interested in the darkin and their relationship to the rest of the world and i think the transforming sword fantasy is one that could be pushed a lot better (and i think the idea of wings as war banners was kind of cool), so i sort of want to see aatrox done right

besides, riot has different teams dedicated to new champions than reworks, so one thing doesn't hurt or impede the other

Calvero said:
league thread on gaming side! i wonder what joyous shitposts will be brought
Click to expand...
there's some already

franchising is the stupidest thing ever, it's one of those things that kind of only make sense in america lol

also demanding 700k because they're advertising their game or whatever?

the fuck they're smoking
 
K

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
zkylon said:
idk i like to think there should be no champion left behind and that all of them have things that are salvageable (even rengar)

like i said i'm super interested in the darkin and their relationship to the rest of the world and i think the transforming sword fantasy is one that could be pushed a lot better (and i think the idea of wings as war banners was kind of cool), so i sort of want to see aatrox done right

besides, riot has different teams dedicated to new champions than reworks, so one thing doesn't hurt or impede the other


there's some already

franchising is the stupidest thing ever, it's one of those things that kind of only make sense in america lol

also demanding 700k because they're advertising their game or whatever?

the fuck they're smoking
Click to expand...

The LCS Team and organizations are complaining because they can't properly monetize it the way they want to. That's why they're upset. I mean... I get it but at the same time like... lul?
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Riot also stops LCS players from streaming other games that are similar to league tho

Before that I don't think they liked LCS players streaming anything BUT League

They deserve some heat for draconic practices like that
 
J

jerd

Member
Anyone tried ranked TT yet? I didn't even realize they were releasing it until I saw it as an option to queue for. That map used to be my jam I wonder if there's any way it could gain some traction now
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
kayos90 said:
The LCS Team and organizations are complaining because they can't properly monetize it the way they want to. That's why they're upset. I mean... I get it but at the same time like... lul?
Click to expand...
we dont know the exact nature of the restriction that riot imposes on teams so it's hard to have an opinion on this outside of riot should probably keep restrictions to a minimum, specially since it's not like bjergsen is gonna start overnight streaming doto or whatever

but we don't know what these restrictions are so maybe teams are exaggerating or lying, that's not out of the question and i wouldn't be surprised if team owners are taking advantage of the community's lack of information

other sponsor restrictions that make sense like banning g2a because they're scum are not only fair but also very appreciated since g2a is scum

outside of that i think it's acceptable for teams to ask riot to let them have a cut of icons and shit. i still think this thing only benefits the teams that are already making good money (tsm, fnatic, c9), so i think the better solution would be for riot to raise subsidies so that all teams can offset costs like that i guess

riot proved at worlds that they can do both sponsors and shared profits in a way that's mostly unintrusive for spectators (which is the problem with iem's parade of ads), and also not totally scummy (which is the problem with doto and compendium), so i could see riot figuring that out in a way that benefits everyone

the 700k thing is hilarious and it just feels like teams overestimating their worth, league benefits them as much as they benefit league and demanding "compensation" to the game that gives them their livelihood sounds like insanity. i have no idea how they justify that lol

then again this is not a signed letter (yet, at least) so take it all with a grain of salt i guess

edit: oh and any talk about franchising is completely pathetic by any team. you're a fucking joke if u ask for that

BreezyLimbo said:
Riot also stops LCS players from streaming other games that are similar to league tho

Before that I don't think they liked LCS players streaming anything BUT League

They deserve some heat for draconic practices like that
Click to expand...
they deserved that heat but they already got it like 2 years ago and they stopped being shitty about it so i think it's time to move on?
 
D

drawkcaB

Member
Wolf Akela said:
Aatrox has such a boring kit. Aside from Blood Well and maaaaaybe Q, there's nothing exceptional in his kit that defines him or is very thematic. He just feels like a worse Xin Zhao.

E or R or both could be something that feels more like you're laying waste on the battle grounds. Not essentially damaging, but more like something that that looks or feels like it makes a lot of impact. W needs a lot of work to make it not boring.
Click to expand...

The funny thing, as someone who at one point actually put in lots of time in both Aatrox and Xin Zhao, is that Aatrox actually does have the more interesting kit mechanically speaking. More skill shots, some balancing between the different forms of W, more interesting passive. And yet, he's still - somehow - less enjoyable to play.

I'd love Riot to direct Aatrox more into the support space in either top or the jungle. A few skills would be selfish and lane/jungle oriented but he'd then transition into a support that buffs his teammates, or supplies some other sort of offensive utility.
 
J

jerd

Member
Xin has like faux resets and his ult is fun to use. Aatrox Q can be cool but if you miss the knock up you're like "alright guess I'm probably dead"
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
zkylon said:
idk i like to think there should be no champion left behind and that all of them have things that are salvageable (even rengar)

like i said i'm super interested in the darkin and their relationship to the rest of the world and i think the transforming sword fantasy is one that could be pushed a lot better (and i think the idea of wings as war banners was kind of cool), so i sort of want to see aatrox done right

besides, riot has different teams dedicated to new champions than reworks, so one thing doesn't hurt or impede the other
Click to expand...
Resources are resources. There are pipelines things have to flow down and it doesn't make sense to me to pay that much attention to Aatrox when that time could be spent elsewhere. Transforming sword has no real read to it and is not really an interesting concept. Obviously Riot can go back to Aatrox and try to make things better but my point was that the aesthetic is lame and picked up no community traction, the personality is a miss, his history with Tryndamere missed, and his kit is a total bore. His passive is like the definition of convoluted, with weird hidden power and attributes that don't emphasize gameplay. It stands in such stark contrast to Zac where the passive just intuitively makes sense and provides interesting moments for both the enemy and Zac.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
dimb said:
Resources are resources. There are pipelines things have to flow down and it doesn't make sense to me to pay that much attention to Aatrox when that time could be spent elsewhere. Transforming sword has no real read to it and is not really an interesting concept. Obviously Riot can go back to Aatrox and try to make things better but my point was that the aesthetic is lame and picked up no community traction, the personality is a miss, his history with Tryndamere missed, and his kit is a total bore. His passive is like the definition of convoluted, with weird hidden power and attributes that don't emphasize gameplay. It stands in such stark contrast to Zac where the passive just intuitively makes sense and provides interesting moments for both the enemy and Zac.
Click to expand...

Aatroxs story sucks.

It's like Lissandra. They just put a bunch of league characters into his storyline to get that edgy 'AATROX WAS HERE ALL ALONG, WE SWEAR GUYS'. Since there are no meaningful interactions between the characters, it comes out as forced and contrived.

This is something DotA and HotS beat League at, character interactions.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
dimb said:
Resources are resources. There are pipelines things have to flow down and it doesn't make sense to me to pay that much attention to Aatrox when that time could be spent elsewhere. Transforming sword has no real read to it and is not really an interesting concept. Obviously Riot can go back to Aatrox and try to make things better but my point was that the aesthetic is lame and picked up no community traction, the personality is a miss, his history with Tryndamere missed, and his kit is a total bore. His passive is like the definition of convoluted, with weird hidden power and attributes that don't emphasize gameplay. It stands in such stark contrast to Zac where the passive just intuitively makes sense and provides interesting moments for both the enemy and Zac.
Click to expand...
i think all you're saying could've been said about sion or poppy or yorick

and aatrox is probably gonna be a bit less work since his visuals are pretty acceptable even if they're nothing exciting

BreezyLimbo said:
Aatroxs story sucks.

It's like Lissandra. They just put a bunch of league characters into his storyline to get that edgy 'AATROX WAS HERE ALL ALONG, WE SWEAR GUYS'. Since there are no meaningful interactions between the characters, it comes out as forced and contrived.

This is something DotA and HotS beat League at, character interactions.
Click to expand...
i think they're getting better at it
 
J

jerd

Member
Champion.gg stats are up for 6.22. Ivern overbuffing confirmed. Tank junglers are gonna rule until they fix cotc. Mastery changes really hurt olaf since he doesn't really mesh with any keystone anymore. Nidalee is dead
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
jerd said:
Champion.gg stats are up for 6.22. Ivern overbuffing confirmed. Tank junglers are gonna rule until they fix cotc. Mastery changes really hurt olaf since he doesn't really mesh with any keystone anymore. Nidalee is dead
Click to expand...

I TOLD YOU GUYS ABOUT IVERN

I TOLD YOU

THAT OVERGROWN WEED IS OP
 
L

Leezard

Member
Calvero said:
what if i'm already a bad player anyway
Click to expand...

Probably a bad idea still, but flex queue is messing up some people's mmr so bad that some high dia players get bronze 5 after placements, so you don't have a lot to lose.

You can always get solo queue placements another day.
 
C

Calvero

Banned
Leezard said:
Probably a bad idea still, but flex queue is messing up some people's mmr so bad that some high dia players get bronze 5 after placements, so you don't have a lot to lose.

You can always get solo queue placements another day.
Click to expand...

ZuVVGCC.png


didn't go so bad. honestly think i play better drunk
 
W

Wolf Akela

Member
Sigismundo said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...2_million_mastery_point_smite_support_singed/

So, what is the line exactly? I've never heard of this guy but if roaming support Singed is winning more games than it loses and he's not being a shithead is that necessarily a problem?
Click to expand...

It's really dumb because it was also the same thing with proxy Singed. If you looked at only the match history and selective chat, it'd look like he's trying really hard to throw games with teammates often salvaging a win. What really happened was him turning 5v5s into 4v1s or 4v2s for his team.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Sigismundo said:
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofle...2_million_mastery_point_smite_support_singed/

So, what is the line exactly? I've never heard of this guy but if roaming support Singed is winning more games than it loses and he's not being a shithead is that necessarily a problem?
Click to expand...

I can try get a confirmation, but there's a reply further down in the post that gives a different perspective on how he actually plays.

Ultimately someone is not going to be banned for picking off-meta, but sounds like this isn't just a case of picking off-meta. His playstyle is seemingly uncooperative, especially since he's basically playing top/jungle Singed but for some reason queueing up as a support and leaving his ADC to fend for themselves bot lane.

And "winning more than he loses" is not a great argument: how many wins are down to him? How many losses are down to him?

A lot of these threads come from a very black and white point of view "well you can't be banned for off-meta and he wins more than he loses so must be ok".

Idk, if this guy picked smite support singed, never actually played support and he roamed the map, feeding his ass of without communicating or cooperating with his team I'd think he was trolling.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
People rarely get banned for no reason in this game. Whenever one of these cases show up you can be 99% sure the guy was just being a dickhead but MUH OFF META PICK CIRCLEJERK.
 
C

clemenx

Banned
Sr Kitsune said:
So Monte saying relegations are gone basically because of Blizzard OW League offering more to investors, etc.
Click to expand...

Lmao Monte shilling pretty hard.

I think OW will be successful at their thing but no way it takes from Dota/CSgo/Lol pie.

I actually predicted Franchising for NA only and I hope it stays as NA only :| As Monte said in one of his tweets it's pretty ingrained in NA sports but there's no justification to bring it to EU. I imagine all the fútbol teams buying teams in EU being all "What the fuck is franchising?"
 
S

Sr Kitsune

Member
clemenx said:
Lmao Monte shilling pretty hard.

I think OW will be successful at their thing but no way it takes from Dota/CSgo/Lol pie.

I actually predicted Franchising for NA only and I hope it stays as NA only :| As Monte said in one of his tweets it's pretty ingrained in NA sports but there's no justification to bring it to EU. I imagine all the fútbol teams buying teams in EU being all "What the fuck is franchising?"
Click to expand...

On that note... what the fuck is franchising?

I'm not american, and the only thing that comes to my mind when I hear "franchise" is McDonalds, Walmart, etc.
 
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