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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.

D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
It's the opposite actually. League focuses more heavily on stats while DOTA focuses more heavily on utility.

There's no items like the Sheepstick, Aghanim's, Blink Dagger, etc

Sorry for the misunderstanding but I'm not correlating lethality with utility. When I think of League champions get stronger I think of well every aspect of them scaling in some way but nothing that fundamentally changes the way they skirmish or teamfight within the span of a game. Obviously that's different for Dota.
Those are bad item examples though. If anything, Dota items get more of everything due to the str/agi/int system.

Infinity Edge gives just damage and crit.

Butterfly gives you tons of stats.

Compare IE to Daedalus and Phantom Dancer to Butterfly if you're going to compare items.
Yeah sorry for the poor examples.

Overall I mean to say that in comparison to how League has handled the OG system of runes/masteries and itemization it would be very unlike them to utilize talents in such a game changing way rather than their traditional incremental buildup of stats.
 

Leezard

Member
Yeah sorry for the poor examples.

Overall I mean to say that in comparison to how League has handled the OG system of runes/masteries and itemization it would be very unlike them to utilize talents in such a game changing way rather than their traditional incremental buildup of stats.
No worries.

Yeah, talents would hopefully be used in a more game changing way.

Aren't most talents except the level 25 talents in the 7.00 patch just stats though? I looked at the dota2 patch website.

Like Wraith King:
No Reincarnation mana cost 25 +20% Vampiric Aura Lifesteal
+40 Attack Speed 20 +20 Strength
+15 Movement Speed 15 +200 Health
+15 Damage 10 +8 Intelligence

Shadow Fiend:
+150 Attack Range 25 -7s Shadow Raze Cooldown
15% Evasion 20 +2 Damage Per Soul
+6% Spell Amplification 15 +175 Health
+15 Movement Speed 10 +20 Attack Speed

CM:
+1.5s Frostbite Duration 25 +200 Crystal Nova Damage
+120 Gold/Min 20 -35s Respawn Time
+125 Cast Range 15 +200 Health
+15% Magic Resistance 10 +50 Damage

VS
+20% Vengeance Aura Damage 25 Magic Missile Pierces Spell Immunity
+50 Damage 20 +20 Movement Speed
+100 Magic Missile Damage 15 +8 All Stats
+8% Magic Resistance 10 +25 Attack Speed
 
D

Deleted member 77995

Unconfirmed Member
Without digging too much into it stuff like +8 int on WK allows enough mana for one more cast of his stun which is definitely gonna be noticeable when you would expect a wk to be more conservative with mana usage early and mid game. It's not as arbitrary as you might think
 
No worries.

Yeah, talents would hopefully be used in a more game changing way.

Aren't most talents except the level 25 talents in the 7.00 patch just stats though? I looked at the dota2 patch website.

Like Wraith King:


Shadow Fiend:


CM:


VS

Yeh dotas talents seem to be more stat heavy than not(exceptions being WKs no mana cost or VS' spell immunity pierece, for example). Id have to parse all the talents for the characters to have a real opinion on it though( in hots they have ones that add health or increase cc duration as well, but usually its a choice between that or something like a spell shield or block). It depends on the character(Valla for example has alot of steroids to her auto attack and Hatred resource, whilst someone like Anuburak mainly has talents that empower his skills than offer raw stats).

Whiskey: yeah the best talents are the one that arent arbitrary and offer choice in a build. This is true for HotS as well. Changing up your build dependinh on your playstyle or opponent make up is very very important.
 

Leezard

Member
Without digging too much into it stuff like +8 int on WK allows enough mana for one more cast of his stun which is definitely gonna be noticeable when you would expect a wk to be more conservative with mana usage early and mid game. It's not as arbitrary as you might think

It will make a difference for sure, it's still stats though. Many of the early talents seem kinda like League's rune system except you get less choice and it's level gated, in exchange for some bigger amounts of stats. Adding some mana regen on a mana hungry champ with runes is nice as well.

Level 25 changes like VS stun piercing magic immunity looks crazy good and has to make a world of difference though. :)

Yeh dotas talents seem to be more stat heavy than not(exceptions being WKs no mana cost or VS' spell immunity pierece, for example). Id have to parse all the talents for the characters to have a real opinion on it though( in hots they have ones that add health or increase cc duration as well, but usually its a choice between that or something like a spell shield or block). It depends on the character(Valla for example has alot of steroids to her auto attack and Hatred resource, whilst someone like Anuburak mainly has talents that empower his skills than offer raw stats).

Whiskey: yeah the best talents are the one that arent arbitrary and offer choice in a build. This is true for HotS as well. Changing up your build dependinh on your playstyle or opponent make up is very very important.

Yeah, we've only seen a few so far. I'd hope they would pick some of the more interesting ones to show but I'm sure there are cool ones that haven't shown up.
 
So thinking about how a talent system would work on League, I'm gonna spitball some design-

1. Each skill gains a talent after being maxed
2. Depending on the skill, you'll have a few choices
3. The talents shouldn't be complete stat-sticks so they're never 'Pick one over the other' and it becomes a false choice.
4.At 16 you can choose a modification for your ult. Again, no direct power, but modifying a skill to suit your play style.
5.As such, these modified skills will be stronger than their base version(So that you never go 'I'm just gonna stick with a vanilla R', for example.)

So I thought about how a talent tree would look like for Jinx for her Q

Q: 3 choices-
1. Pow-Bones: Lose the ability to swap from Pow-Pow. Gain 75 range passively. Every 5th auto attack you fire a rocket(stacks fall off with Pow-Pow stacks, so you can't save rockets) dealing 10% health damage in an area.

Explanation-So it modifies her auto attack. She still gains the AS stacks from firing her attack, and every 5th attack is a rocket that deals extra damage in the form of % HP. She also gains a longer range on her minigun. This talent would be good against tank heavy teams, or if you really want to maximize her auto attack with the minigun, but the downside is you can't switch to rockets manually anymore and lose the ability to clear fast.
2.Pow-Pow-Pow: After reaching max stacks, she gains 10% movement speed. Additionally, she fires so fast that she hits her target 4 times a second. Loses 25% overall attack damage.

Explanation- So this is pure auto attack speed. She loses attack damage to compensate for how fast she's hitting, but if she picks up on hit items it can be a quite dangerous talent to pick up. However since alot of on-hit items are on AS items, it'll be a waste to pay for that AS since she would be attacking faster than the max AS cap anyways. It offers a trade off to her total damage output in trade for extremely fast attacks.

3. Shark Breath- Quest: Lowers the mana cost of Fishbones by 5. Every 10 attacks with Fishbones against a champion will increase the splash radius size, up to a maximum of 50 stacks. After reaching 50 stacks, Fishbones will leave a patch of fire that deals 25% of her damage every second to enemies that stand in it for 3 seconds after an explosion.(10 second internal cooldown).

Explanation-So this talent would be for empowering fishbones and to make her a very dangerous foe in enclosed areas. The bigger splash radius also allows her to cause alot of collateral damage, and after finishing the quest Fishbones becomes a strong area of denial skill when used correctly. The downside is since you gain this talent at level 9, it means having to build it's stacks, and chances are the laning phase will be over for free hits off it. So it doesn't provide immediate changes like her other two talents, but after fully stacking it, it'll be devastating compared to the other 2.

~~~

That's an example of how a talent system could work for League. No direct power unless it's put behind a gate of a sort where it needs to be stacked(Not all champions would have a talent that you'd have to build over a match), and well...it opens up diversity within a champion that isn't there. Someone might play Jinx one way, another person can play Jinx completely differently. In Leagues case with items, it'd also lead to possibly extremely varied item builds. IE a Jinx with Pow Pow Pow might want to build On-hit compared to a Jinx who would pick up Shark Bones.

I dunno. After seeing Dota adopt a talent system, I wonder if League would ever adopt something like it.(They should also remove runes and masteries if they implemented a talent system, because good lord runes and masteries sucks. Lots of false choices within them in terms of what you build for what role, more so in masteries.)
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Talent system just does not stack well with an item system. At a certain point you might as well just give people gold to buy items of the same statistical power as a talent. The talent system in HotS is not very flexible and I cannot see Dota 2 being any better. Maybe reading paragraph descriptions of talents is okay in your rinky dink 40 hero game where you have to think about nothing else but it is vile in any real moba. Power should be easily discernible and talents obfuscate this for both the player and their opponents.
 
Talent system just does not stack well with an item system. At a certain point you might as well just give people gold to buy items of the same statistical power as a talent. The talent system in HotS is not very flexible and I cannot see Dota 2 being any better.

Mhm. It's contingent on how well the dota 2 system does. It can go either way but there are some interesting things...like either extra xp(which sorta kinda matters in dota) or extra duration on CC..

an experiment for sure.
 
Thrill of the Hunt talent options:

1.) Rengar can attack with invisibility for up to 2 seconds upon leaping to a target

2.) Rengar gets max stacks of ferocity upon activating this ability and lasts for 10 seconds or until an ability is used.


mmmmm
 
Thrill of the Hunt talent options:

1.) Rengar can attack with invisibility for up to 2 seconds upon leaping to a target

2.) Rengar gets max stacks of ferocity upon activating this ability and lasts for 10 seconds or until an ability is used.


mmmmm

Hrmm. Having invisibility that wouldn't break on damage/attack is near broken compared to the 2nd choice..
 
Maybe an ability for Rengar, when Rengar is on your team, you're aren't 5x as likely to lose.

Easy.

Ulti Talent-

1) When Rengar leaps on his target, invisibility isn't broken for 3 seconds and his next 2 ability uses are treated as having full ferocity

2) Rengar gains Hunters Bow, allowing him to cast his abilities as if they were ranged. Persists outside of ulti. During ulti, he gains 2x range.
 
Hrmm. Having invisibility that wouldn't break on damage/attack is near broken compared to the 2nd choice..

I meant to say camo. It wouldn't be as broken as it sounds, and it would mostly be used to reset and run away from people safely for those times where one would realize he/she messed up while mid leap.
 
I meant to say camo. It wouldn't be as broken as it sounds, and it would mostly be used to reset and run away from people safely for those times where one would realize he/she messed up while mid leap.

Oh, Camos a different story. If it was full blown invisibilty, that would be hilarious.

Sona-"Ashe why are you dying"
Ashe-"I DON'T KNOW"
Lee Sin-"Gg no re our ashe dies to nothing"
 

Nekofrog

Banned
dream is dead

i was supporting a "master tier pro player who makes money off the game for a living" who walked directly into 2 zilean bombs, died without healing, then ragequit the game and blamed me. even the zilean was like "dude, you walked into the bombs and didn't heal". called for open, and spent entire game raging at everyone for being "no names"


lollolololol
 
dream is dead

i was supporting a "master tier pro player who makes money off the game for a living" who walked directly into 2 zilean bombs, died without healing, then ragequit the game and blamed me. even the zilean was like "dude, you walked into the bombs and didn't heal". called for open, and spent entire game raging at everyone for being "no names"


lollolololol

Did he also mention the amount of women that he talks to due to his status?
 

Newt

Member
Passive - Swain's Stalkers


Every 5s, Swain gets a Raven that follows him, up to a maximum of 20 Ravens. If Swain lands his W on an enemy, the Ravens converge on the area, each dealing 2% max health magic dmg.
 
all those talent ideas suck, they either take away some of the good design of the champion or are really unhealthy

i expected better armchair game designing tbh
 
Hmm, if Morgana had a talent system, I'd imagine:

W1: Desecrated Soil
The area of infection increases over the duration. The rate becomes faster the more enemy champions remain inside it. Enemies that remain inside for the full duration will have their magic resistance reduced for a short duration.
W2: Impeding Soil
A portion of the damage is now instantly dealt, and will also briefly slow all enemies hit.

E1: Black Purge
Additionally removes existing crowd control effects.
E2: Black Field
The shield is now stronger. Additionally, the shield is also around the target unit to protect allied champions around it.

R1: Soul Grasps
Morgana gains damage reduction for each champion shackled on spell cast (up to 100% reduction for 5 champions). Champions who are hit by the second damage are pulled towards Morgana.
R2: Soul Fusion
During the spell duration, Morgana reflects a portion of damage she receives.

Can't think of anything for Q at all.

Tbh I'm not a fan of talent systems. On existing applications, they tend to add arbitrary changes to existing rules (abilities) on a body (champions). They're not like item actives that are rules of their own that act as supplements, and are generally much more clearly indicated towards both the player and the enemy.
 
Anyone here have played Borderlands: The Pre-sequel? I'm almost done with Borderlands 2. But how is Physx in TPS? Still as shitty (performance wise) like in B2? I looked up the PC perfomance thread but it wasn't very helpful, lol.

And just release Camille already!
 
Fuck.

1300 IP from being able to unlock Camille if she comes out today. I guess I'll have enough by the weekend, but it's hard to say. Dota 3 launches today and demands time.

Anyone here have played Borderlands: The Pre-sequel? I'm almost done with Borderlands 2. But how is Physx in TPS? Still as shitty (performance wise) like in B2? I looked up the PC perfomance thread but it wasn't very helpful, lol.

Just now playing Borederlands 2? Sad man. You missed all the partnering up, trading and new item discovery. Also, the pre-nerf Bee. :(
 
Camille looks suitably daft for a new champ.

I do find it odd she can't grapple champs though with her E, and some of her actions and their AoEs seem very misaligned. Like, should I be expected to be hit by an action - with no travel/missile speed - which is quite clearly a 'kick'. Even Darius E(?) has a spin-up time with the area labelled out before it hits.

I'll have to rewatch to confirm but it did seem a bit too unavoidable.
 
Fuck.

1300 IP from being able to unlock Camille if she comes out today. I guess I'll have enough by the weekend, but it's hard to say. Dota 3 launches today and demands time.



Just now playing Borederlands 2? Sad man. You missed all the partnering up, trading and new item discovery. Also, the pre-nerf Bee. :(

Well I actually played a lot of b2 in December last year, but I didn't finish UVHM, and I'm just coming around to finish it.
 
Camille looks suitably daft for a new champ.

I do find it odd she can't grapple champs though with her E, and some of her actions and their AoEs seem very misaligned. Like, should I be expected to be hit by an action - with no travel/missile speed - which is quite clearly a 'kick'. Even Darius E(?) has a spin-up time with the area labelled out before it hits.

I'll have to rewatch to confirm but it did seem a bit too unavoidable.

It does have a windup time but it is short.

Well I actually played a lot of b2 in December last year, but I didn't finish UVHM, and I'm just coming around to finish it.

Gotcha. BL2 had a real social wave through the first 2 DLC patches. Was very alive. I assume now it feels 100% like a SP game which is cool too, but the social side (teaming up for certain things and finding certain special weapons) was a big part of the experience.
 
Camille looks suitably daft for a new champ.

I do find it odd she can't grapple champs though with her E, and some of her actions and their AoEs seem very misaligned. Like, should I be expected to be hit by an action - with no travel/missile speed - which is quite clearly a 'kick'. Even Darius E(?) has a spin-up time with the area labelled out before it hits.

I'll have to rewatch to confirm but it did seem a bit too unavoidable.
What are you talking about, her E? It has a travel time before she latches onto a wall unless she's hugging it.
 
I got my email with my 2016 stats from Spotify

(Your top artists)
daJP2sb.png

And I used Spotify a lot.

Uh, unexpected. But what can I say, Riot does great music.
 

Xeilyn

Member
Welp i just bought the Camille bundle and thats after buying Gnar and Darius for rp just a couple of days ago... Rito turning me into a whale
 

Talents

Banned
Already some banter coming out when people ban Camille:
Indiboi : pick me camille got all champs
Ference : i cant even fucking ban camille
Ference : 'temporarily disabled'
Ference : kys
Talentz GAF : lul
Indiboi : why ban her
Indiboi : u pussy
BankPlank : faggit
Ference : kys cancer kid
BankPlank : get shit on
Indiboi : u are the one who got shit on
Indiboi : you show everyone that you are a pussy
BankPlank : get rekt
BankPlank : nerd
Indiboi : how did i get rekt?
Ference : didnt know trash cans could talk shit
 
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