Terbinator
Member
RIP.
Kayle jungle in my placement game. See what you guys have done.
Kayle jungle in my placement game. See what you guys have done.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
Stone Ocean
Member
Kayle was meant to get a complete rework but then people started playing her mid and Riot was like "ok just keep her mid then and we gucci"
Terbinator
Member
She's also boring AF to play when her E is not up.
Stone Ocean
Member
WHO'S NEXT
But who will grace us with Riot's infallible views now?
PhillipCostigan
Member
I had typed out a more in-depth post to your drive-by salt post (which is a speciality of yours by now) but at the end of the day it's not really worth it.
It's not about "Riot's infallible views" or whatever fight the power angle you're trying to take, it's about giving context behind why different metrics are relevant and then finding out I've been debating a point muddled and confused by misinformation, which only further complicates the debate because GAF has a habit of arguing different points to the one being made.
GAF also has a habit of making statements backed by the most anecdotal of evidence (their own opinion) and not backed by actual fact.
I'm sorry if you think I'm speaking with a holier than thou attitude, but come off it. As a person who consistently tries to back their opinions with data are you telling me that you can go back through those posts and paint me as some sort of a bad guy?
SenorArdilla
Member
AN EYE FOR AN EYE.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
yeah, her art is also really outdated and plain to look at
i imagine her gameplay rework wouldn't be super different, i think her ult and her e are things people like about her (i'd just make her e an always on passive tho) and just modernize q and w
i think it's a champion that just needs mechanics injected on her, it's fine if q is a slow and a nuke, but probably it should have something attached to it gives it enough complexity to be interesting
it's ok
idk i thought that part you eloshamed peanutbutter man was kind of mean haha
wow, get out of here dude
pixiv posts don't quote well dumbo
rehost it on imgur
Dreams-Visions
Member
the fuck is this post
This is so zky it hurts.
Everyone's talking about how she plays, her skillcap, interactivity, etc etc and zky goes "Yeah, I agree, she needs to look better."
I mean this with love.
it's not easy being me :3
Dreams-Visions
Member
and yet, someone must be you.
this thread would suck hot asshole juice without your very specific brand of contributions.
Stone Ocean
Member
Best part is Kayle was basically one of the if not the first visual update in the game.
Never forget Cotton Candy Wing Kayle
Never forget Cotton Candy Wing Kayle
he means the lewd art
Stone Ocean
Member
Camille jungle is pretty mediocre. Her first few clears though safe are pretty slow so she takes a while to scale unlike other junglers who can just powerlevel their way through games.
Except Wind
If you use Wind by itself you're a freak
The rest of the elements are ok
Except Wind
If you use Wind by itself you're a freak
PhillipCostigan
Member
fwiw I wasn't elo shaming, or certainly didn't attempt to. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and all that (I think I could make plat if I really pushed myself but right now I'm like high silver low gold tier)
the intention was essentially "if you find it so easy go do it" and not "yeah but you suck so"
--------------
sorry peanut butter, wasn't intended to be hostile/elo shaming
Stone Ocean
Member
Don't throw me I'm sensitive
Wind is trash
Yeah but why the fug would you take wind as your first form, just use it to combine
Wind is trash
i think air is ok, water is the one that's kind of bad
and dark lux is hands down the best
it makes me pretty mad the fact that you can only use it for like half a match
and dark lux is hands down the best
it makes me pretty mad the fact that you can only use it for like half a match
the rudest
Stone Ocean
Member
Water Lux is the best because it's basically pay to win since somehow people are too blind to differentiate her Q and E - like what
that information is pretty useful
i switch to megaman lux whenever i see someone picked something like yasuo mid
if you're gonna be a dick and play that bullshit then have fun dodging my invisible spells
edit:
apparently jessica nigiri is the new nikasaur?
that's cool, i like her
i switch to megaman lux whenever i see someone picked something like yasuo mid
if you're gonna be a dick and play that bullshit then have fun dodging my invisible spells
edit:
apparently jessica nigiri is the new nikasaur?
that's cool, i like her
Dreams-Visions
Member
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=nightblue3
Search for Camille matches and watch the replay of his first Camille game (11/7/5) to see how it's done. Click the blue video icon and follow the instructions to watch.
Peanut Butter
Member
The reason I'm not a fan of your take on this particular topic is because it seems like you're using mastery as a ticket to be able to say something about the champion.
If you hopped on the NA server and played a game with me on GP, what would that have to do with anything? What if we won with me going 9/0/8, most damage on the team, but I didn't hit a single 3 barrel combo? My barrel mechanics are fine, but his Q + Ult + passive true damage can win games on their own.
He's always banned, but
In a conversation like this, I'll always take opinions/anecdotal evidence over stats because everyone gravitates towards champions differently.Back when the Hyperbolic Time Ch-Team Builder was a thing, I had to spam Thresh and Lee Sin games for two weeks each in order to get good with them and not go 0/15/0 every game. That wasn't the case with GP. I was able to rely on using his Q + ult to win games while I was understanding how to maximize barrel damage.
Also, no need to apologize, it's just talk over a video game lol. If I was mad at you in any way, I'd play AP Malphite in an ARAM with you again =)
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is there a champion that lets me by fire be purged my opponents
Considering the thread is what it is anyway, eh.
Because it's highly relevant to the whole thing: This was never the original point to be contested. There's a vast difference between how hard something is to execute and how hard it is to do so in a meaningful way. And missing this difference is sort of the point you keep reinforcing here. Yeah, the actual mechanical parts of GP's kit are simple, but that's never been the point of the discussion.
The issue I have with this is the entire point of the metric quoted is to remove the subjective bias from it. Like, comparing win rate vs experience, these show the sharpest divide between low and high experience. Then you can ask is it a case of too high floor, a rewarding ceiling, poor design, wonky design, or any other host of things.
Admittedly, I'm incredibly biased here. I appreciate data so to me the question when presented with these is to figure out why do the numbers show that rather than why my personal opinion differs. But even then, a conversation on what people think can be had on the subject. It's kind of why my original post here is pretty much just lamenting it being about difficulty-of-play as the subject rather than what champions reflect experience the most.
Well, they are it's just gradual since it's not a per-patch set of data. Using just Champion.gg to make some of these points is a little crippling since it isn't the full picture so I can agree with that a bit.
That said, I still don't get the point being made with this Lucian reference? It's a negative win rate and experience is reflecting an at-best 2% divide. The fact that all the charts aren't scaled the same is certainly a thing but doesn't Lucian reflect the original point fairly well? He has a fairly high popularity with a low disparity between low experience and high experience. When we get more and more data of experienced players vs inexperienced, will that gap increase due to the changes or is it a case of the changes crippling both sides? That is, is it "experienced players can still succeed" or "Lucian is now bad in every case." Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point, though.
He does reflect that popularity isn't reflected very well in win rate, seeing as he's net negative for several patches in a row despite his popularity. Which is kind of humorous to see just how bad his popularity:win rate are lol. But I suppose that's probably pretty common for high popularity meta picks?
Purely an assumption but now I'm curious on the popular meta picks and how bad their win rate suffers due to that. Aka, autofill impact
Hydrophobic
Member
Brand?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Hmmm
Annie and Brand comes to mind.
Sr Kitsune
Member
Foxfire Ahri
Infernal Alistar
Infernal Diana
Shadowfire Kindred
Obsidian Malphite
Charred Maokai
Phoenix Quinn
Molten Rammus
Scorched Earth Renekton
Firefang Warwick
Volcanic Wukong
Scorched Earth Xerath
Wildfire Zyra
+ Brand
2% is a significant change but in the context of the discussion it's not? Like, I agree that varying a percentage point or two is a significant difference for players, especially if we're looking at a large sample size, and going up a point or two IS a big deal. But when we're looking at lopsided win rate v experience curves, it's the kind of "expected" change rather than a big one; you expect those with more experience to win more often due to consistency and other factors, you don't expect them to wildly outperform others on average. Put another way, your Rengar example of seeing massive 4-5% swings between experience brackets
who the fuck got 125+ Rengar games through bans?
I mean, you said it yourself? Winrates don't vary that much. It's more that sometimes you do have champions that have wild growths in win rate with experience and that was the original point. All else aside, which have the sharpest change? Once you establish that, then you can start looking into the who, what, why, how, etc. of it.
My gut says I agree, people like to flock to things that show success. It's more I wonder how much popularity, especially sudden popularity, creates late to the party bandwagons that warp the curve. For instance, the Lucian example is 'only' +2% change but the majority of Lucian players (it's something like ~70% of the games played by 50+% of those playing him?) have that level of experience vs a minority bringing the curve up. The sample size is large enough to weed out outliers. However, Singed has 50% of the games played by maybe 5% of the players picking him and that distorts the winrate somewhat.
Mostly just musing to myself, I don't have the data to check for it.
I just think the data isn't really there after I looked at it more closely. Like winrate curve tells you nothing and champion retention chart tells you even less.
I'm just really against the argument that champions with unique things in their kit are difficult to play. Udyr and Singed aren't difficult champs. It's like people forgot about the AP Udyr meta.
Asol also isn't difficult. GP, yeah I can agree with that.
I'm just really against the argument that champions with unique things in their kit are difficult to play. Udyr and Singed aren't difficult champs. It's like people forgot about the AP Udyr meta.
Asol also isn't difficult. GP, yeah I can agree with that.