SenorArdilla
Member
Default Cass's hat is really stupid looking.
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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
Black-Wind
Member
Hmmm, wonder why they put me in a waiting room to login cause of traffic but then Que times are like still 10 mins before i get my secondary role ..
Mostmanlyman
Member
But cowboy hat looks rad.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
o great another horribly broken ryze rework.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
What the fuck is that
So he has uh, that one guys ult from DotA now? And they decided to further fuck Tahm Kench by giving Ryze a better, more initiate focused version of his ult? Gonn ahave to surmise these changes..
SenorArdilla
Member
You can bring minions with you. How nice.
LOL. Extra mana scaling with AP. How does this work with Seraph?
SenorArdilla
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Did they remove Ryzes zombie skin? LOL
Jesus that looks dirty.
Have to see the numbers but if he can still burst then being in the backline is not gonna be fun.
Troubled Bat
Member
One of the reworks I've been waiting on. lol. Finally.
Yeah, I noticed that as well..
Yeah, I noticed that as well..
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Ok, so here's my problem with new Ryze.
I think he's great. Actually, this will probably be an interesting and powerful incarnation of Ryze. But the issue with his new rework is his newfound utility and overloaded kit. His ultimate invalidates Tahm Kench completely. A support Ryze will outdo Tahm Kench, if only because Tanky Ryze will still have significant power over Tahm, and his ultimate is a faster, with more utility because the amount of people you can bring with you(And minions I suppose).
But Ryze support will be niche. No, the problem with new Ryze is that he's been given alot more utility with essentially the same toolkit.
Now his E is overloaded with various properties that affect the rest of his skills. His Q is overloaded, what was before a click to target, to skillshot, to now having a self-buff steroid if you rotate it out with his other spells. His Ultimate can work as an initiate or an escape. It's a great ultimate. It just invalidates another champion entirely.
And then there's the vlad-esque Mana/AP nonsense they have going. Extra damage with more mana, extra mana with more AP. Why does he need that? He doesn't. Move his Overloads passive onto his characters passive. There, he's better balanced then his rework is.
It's a great rework, but in the confines of Leagues meta, and how alot of champions are still 'old' and require reworks like this, he doesn't work. Like....this is the issue with League currently. That new characters/reworks are invalidating old ones/being grossly overpowered because in doing something different, they end up making something grossly powerful.
I think he's great. Actually, this will probably be an interesting and powerful incarnation of Ryze. But the issue with his new rework is his newfound utility and overloaded kit. His ultimate invalidates Tahm Kench completely. A support Ryze will outdo Tahm Kench, if only because Tanky Ryze will still have significant power over Tahm, and his ultimate is a faster, with more utility because the amount of people you can bring with you(And minions I suppose).
But Ryze support will be niche. No, the problem with new Ryze is that he's been given alot more utility with essentially the same toolkit.
Now his E is overloaded with various properties that affect the rest of his skills. His Q is overloaded, what was before a click to target, to skillshot, to now having a self-buff steroid if you rotate it out with his other spells. His Ultimate can work as an initiate or an escape. It's a great ultimate. It just invalidates another champion entirely.
And then there's the vlad-esque Mana/AP nonsense they have going. Extra damage with more mana, extra mana with more AP. Why does he need that? He doesn't. Move his Overloads passive onto his characters passive. There, he's better balanced then his rework is.
It's a great rework, but in the confines of Leagues meta, and how alot of champions are still 'old' and require reworks like this, he doesn't work. Like....this is the issue with League currently. That new characters/reworks are invalidating old ones/being grossly overpowered because in doing something different, they end up making something grossly powerful.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
The question is if it'll be enough.
Ryze's new ult is strong because it can be efficiently used in a teamfight to reposition-which is something that is probably the most important thing in League, position. It's strong because it's utility is insane. It's strong because it's a huge area of effect. It's strong because the only other skill like it-Tahm Kench's ult-isn't as instantaneous as Realm Warp is and you don't have to click on Warp.
Not only that, but the distance shown in this video isn't insignificant. Teleporting Ryze was one thing for a gank, but now he can transport teammates to make ganking even easier. As a top/mid, he can do this. Tahm can't, he's a support and doesn't have the damage to back him up.
Like I said, it's a great rework. It's just that in the confines of league, it breaks many things.
Black-Wind
Member
R
CHANNEL DURATION15 seconds ⇒ 6 seconds
CAST DELAY1 second ⇒ 0.25 seconds
ENEMY WARNING TIME1.5 seconds ⇒ 1 second
RANGE4000/5000/6000 ⇒ 4500/5500/6500
Hmmm ...
Yeah, most likely.
Black-Wind
Member
So, is Top TK gonna be better?
Seems like it.
Seems like it.
Stone Ocean
Member
Another Ryze rework, another rework Rune Prison survives
See you next year.
See you next year.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I mean
it's a valid criticism to compare their ultimates and notice that Ryze's is more useful
Yeah....they should just change it to a skillshot.
To be fair their kits have a lot to do with it as well. Diana's ult is worse than Akali's ult. At least Ryze can't eat his allies.
PeskyToaster
Member
Is Ryze's ult going to feel like when your massive fleet in Sins of a Solar Empire phase jumps into the enemy system all at once?
Orochinagis
Member
Now we need a summon minion champ to sinergy
BreezyLimbo
Banned
On the Diana/Akali part, Dianas ult may feel worse than Akalis, but Diana has more utility/tankiness in her skillset...
...on the other part, it doesn't help that Ryzes kit is overloaded at the moment. In combination with that, I can say that Ryze will be a bit too powerful. With those passives on his skills, with that ult, the only silver lining is if his base damage is complete shit(100 base damage max for his Q would be ideal~) in which case it works itself out.
Indeed, comparing their whole skillset is the point. Tahm is tanky and can peel, new Ryze hopefully won't get both the tankiness and damage like he had before. Like you say, if he has bad base damage things would be simple.
That's not to say I don't believe Ryze might become OP again with the rework, that's not very unlikely.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think Ryze will still get pretty tanky. His core items will still be Seraphs, Rod of Ages(They both feed into his mana, which feeds into his damage, and AP feeds into his mana.) Frozen Heart and Banshees(They both feed into his damage).
The only thing he doesn't have anymore is spellvamp. His W+E don't reset anymore, only his Q. So his teamfight ability is a little bit worse because he can't spam his snare as much, but his initiation will be extremely good. His damage will probably be pretty strooooong, and he'll be tanky because his core build won't be any different.
So the Ryze Rework has accomplished this-
Removed his skill spamming(For E+W+R)
Removed his Spell Vamp
Moved his passive into his Q which requires set up
Gains a new passive giving him Mana for AP, and his Mana increases his skill damage
Rune Prison remains the same
His E gains utility and additional effects, doesn't shred MR anymore
Gains a new ultimate that allows him to teleport his team a distance, about 1500-2000 range from the looks of it.
It's a good rework, but for League it's a toxic one.
Oh right, he still gets a shield from Q. I was thinking he lost both the spell vamp and the shield. We'll have to see how the result is, then.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I don't see the issue you guys have with Rune Prison. It's not spamable anymore (unless I'm mistaken) and having some point and click cc in the game is really useful for keeping champs like Ahri and Yasuo in check. We don't have a lot of them anymore.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It's a fine skillset. Rune prison never was the issue for me(Except for the spamability, previously).
It's in combination with everything else in his kit that is the issue. He has way too much utility and too many passives that he's automatically a step above other tanky mages because of that. In comparison to other characters who fit a similar role, he has way too much in his current kit. Waaaay too much.
Like I've mentioned, it's a good rework, but for League's current state it's way too strong.
i'm actually sort of positive about the rework cos they gave him an actual missable spell ultimate that can be properly gated by cooldowns, which is what i've been saying for a while would be needed to balance ryze
the rest is pretty hard to talk about without actual numbers but yea i'm not a big fan of the stat conversion passives and the kit does feel overloaded (i guess they kind of set themselves up for that by making his ult a non dmg spell) but we'll see
the problem with rune prison before was not only spammability but also the tons of ms he got from his ult which combined with flash meant u couldn't really escape it
haven't watched the video on the new ult but if it's quick then that might prove problematic
the rest is pretty hard to talk about without actual numbers but yea i'm not a big fan of the stat conversion passives and the kit does feel overloaded (i guess they kind of set themselves up for that by making his ult a non dmg spell) but we'll see
will depend on how fair it feels when used together with his ult
the problem with rune prison before was not only spammability but also the tons of ms he got from his ult which combined with flash meant u couldn't really escape it
haven't watched the video on the new ult but if it's quick then that might prove problematic
BreezyLimbo
Banned
It's about 1.5 seconds?
It looks like Ryze can be stunned out of it(But I don't see a casting bar for it so it might just be a canned animation for it), which will lessen its use during a teamfight, but for the casting time and not needing any input from allies for them to benefit from it(Unlike Tahms), it does seem a bit strong.
I'd have to see final base numbers for his skills and scalings, but his passive doesn't give me confidence that Ryze won't have issues in being incredibly tanky as well as having a high damage output on top of his new utility now.