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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u
- Thread starter SouthernDragon
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What is a wriggles
its a touhou.
As far as Elise is concerned, I'm not a fan of Liandry's Torment yet. Just doesn't seem to be doing as much as it could. This is with both Rylai's and Iceborn Gauntlet. Granted, it was a limited set of (bad) games to test it with so I'll still try some more. She honestly doesn't seem to benefit much from the new items yet, though I may just need to try more things out.
Riven with Black Cleaver and Tiamat/Hydra is fun though. Hydra adds an extra 1.0 total AD to her burst combo (which is 3.7 to 4.9 bonusAD + 0.5 bonusAD per auto) on a 10 second cooldown. Also, cool explosion effects. So fuck it all, I'm building Tiamat errday, not just Tuesdays.
I want to try Tiamat on him for the same reason I enjoy it on Riven: An additional 1.0 AD ratio. R in, E+Tiamat+Q+Auto is a lot of damage for Death Mark to end up dealing. Granted, it is basically entirely overkill and Zed doesn't necessarily benefit from Tiamat procs but it sounds cool in theory.
But, SotD will probably be his late game core item. BC + BT + SotD. It's just an utterly absurd amount of damage when he jumps someone and the excess SotD charges helps him take down his second target. His W giving +AD% lets him still hit super high AD values off just two items as well. Mercurial is an alternative to BT if there's CC to deal with for his engage. Lets him chase down ADCs with escapes too.
Likewise, I still need to try BC + RH + SotD Fiora. And, again, W gives her the AD she needs to get to high AD values with "limited" items.
Riven with Black Cleaver and Tiamat/Hydra is fun though. Hydra adds an extra 1.0 total AD to her burst combo (which is 3.7 to 4.9 bonusAD + 0.5 bonusAD per auto) on a 10 second cooldown. Also, cool explosion effects. So fuck it all, I'm building Tiamat errday, not just Tuesdays.
I want to try Tiamat on him for the same reason I enjoy it on Riven: An additional 1.0 AD ratio. R in, E+Tiamat+Q+Auto is a lot of damage for Death Mark to end up dealing. Granted, it is basically entirely overkill and Zed doesn't necessarily benefit from Tiamat procs but it sounds cool in theory.
But, SotD will probably be his late game core item. BC + BT + SotD. It's just an utterly absurd amount of damage when he jumps someone and the excess SotD charges helps him take down his second target. His W giving +AD% lets him still hit super high AD values off just two items as well. Mercurial is an alternative to BT if there's CC to deal with for his engage. Lets him chase down ADCs with escapes too.
Likewise, I still need to try BC + RH + SotD Fiora. And, again, W gives her the AD she needs to get to high AD values with "limited" items.
You sound disappointed
I thought of trying her as a jungler but with new jungle being tough and all, I figured I'd give it a week or so, so someone makes a good guide or something.
Yeah, I've been meaning to buy her iceborn but so far I've just gotten to buy the glacial shroud. I have a thing against Rylai's and RoA, so I pretty much never buy them
Wolf Akela
Member
First game in S3. Played Kog with... pseudo-support Rammus? QEWRs too gud and towerdives like a boss. Oh god he got me so fed. Zerk, 2x Dorans, BT and Hurricane by 20:00. I had enough money for another BT when the match ended. :|
Got to play two games yesterday. Unfortunately lulu gets first picked in both so I ended up going Zilean to crush all the bandwagon lulu players. New jungle means when you get your adc fed early there's no one strong enough to fix the problem; also I had what felt like endless gold as a support compared to before. They took the best role and made it actually scale well to late game. Really want to try out Shard and Crucible but my games haven't gone very long :/
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
ATTENTION SUPPORTS: Just because you have a ward stone, doesn't mean you should stop buying wards. Yes, we do need more than 2 wards out.
Nor should you stop buying ward so you can save money for ward stone (or upgrading it) =.=
Actually, scrap all that, if you have a ward stone, make sure you put those wards somewhere. You can have 2 out at a time, and yes they will expire in 3 min, and you should put the new one out when the out one expire.
Can someone buy shurelia?
Nor should you stop buying ward so you can save money for ward stone (or upgrading it) =.=
Actually, scrap all that, if you have a ward stone, make sure you put those wards somewhere. You can have 2 out at a time, and yes they will expire in 3 min, and you should put the new one out when the out one expire.
Can someone buy shurelia?
lazorexplosion
Member
Bolded for extra emphasis. SO TRUE.
Yeah, ward stone is dumb. You save a lot of money, so it's inevitable but eh...
edit: that's on Riot, btw. I kinda wish they had added another GP10 item that only benefited supports, because now we're stuck with 2, maybe 3 wards placing supports. Better players probably don't mind but if you play with randoms you're bound to find them shitty ones.
Ward in tri, ward in river!
Fuck bot lane bush!
It's kind of weird. Most the games last night had what seemed like a lack of wards. I know I was pretty guilty of it too when I played support a few games but still. Seems like with the loss of perma-Oracles, random warding should go up but ... doesn't really seem to be the case.
I need to start making room in my build path for Sightstone probably for whenever I play top lane. Probably the same for mid. And jungle. Basically everyone.
The active is still good so there's probably still no reason to not get it honestly, nerfs to the stats be damned (it's slightly cheaper than before too, isn't it?). Need more tanks (and/or supports) to get Captain Enchants as well probably. +8% Movement for the engage or disengage is nice to have.
I'm meh on the item as a support. Over time you might save the money but at 700 gold you need to place 10 wards to make it worth it. Only being able to do 2 at a time means it will take a minimum of 15 minutes to pay yourself back for it. Considering you probably won't be able to afford it until the 10 minute mark (really rough guesstimate here) means the game may be over before you pay yourself back with it. I'm having a tough time justifying the sightstone as a support.
However, for Kat or Lee Sin it becomes a jump stone. 700 gold for 4 jumps each back is perfect. You can easily get the use out of it in half the time just using it for mobility.
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
Rylais is expensive man!
Also am I like the only dude who really likes the new store? I especially like how they break up the recommended items into starter/offensive/defensive and how you can select multiple categories for searching (so like, find me stuff with armor and AP).
I think I need to mess around with that recommended item customizer tool. Wonder if it's been updated for the patch yet.
I think I need to mess around with that recommended item customizer tool. Wonder if it's been updated for the patch yet.
No, screw you, put your BF sword in the river
If you're ignoring the health on it (~250 Gold worth of Health), I suppose that's the case. Factoring the health, that's only
Edit: derp, it's 700 Gold or 450 Gold after factoring the Health. Means you're at 6 Wards, not 8, which is 3 cycles (6 minutes) of placing wards. That means it pays for itself after the first back and starts "earning" gold at this point.
Also, 2 Wards every 3 Minutes means every 180 seconds you "get" 150 Gold. That's roughly 8.33 GP10. This replaces Heart of Gold in build orders so that's the comparison point to be made and it's far superior as an effective gold generation item. If HoG was ideal for supports before, Sightstone is that much better.
What we'll end up seeing is that money spent on normal wards will be moved to getting at least one Vision Ward instead for laning. That allows for counter pinking their river ward, for instance, to allow for ganks AND removes that location as a viable warding target for the duration (since otherwise it's merely giving up free gold).
This gives supports a way to counterward to directly harass the gold efficiency of the enemy support since you've forcing them to sit on a ward charge and/or ward in a less-than-ideal location.
The game I played last night was Zed mid, and I always build brutalizer so yeah it's definitely nice to have the upgrade. I didn't really notice the black cleaver effects but I was doing decent damage sometimes when I would poke people, so I assume it was doing something.
I feel like I was lacking lifesteal since it's so expensive (800+) now, and bloodthirster is wimpy and only 30 AD and a little lifesteal. I like having some lifesteal so I can recover health while farming without having to go back to base.
The hydra item (that's the tiamat upgrade right?) did look like it would be fun, but I think I ran out of time before getting it maybe?
I probably also can't adequately judge black cleaver damage since I kept having people flash after I would ult them, and/or I would just plain miss the close-range Q combination that would be doing all the extra damage.
Overall it was a victory and I went like 8/2, and if anything Zed should be better. I may mess around with the lifesteal options just because I liked bloodthirster previously.
I think one of my problems is that I generally do well with Zed, but I'm playing bad people. Then everyone 5-10 games I end up against a GOOD player and don't do well. If anyone is 1500 elo and/or a good mid, and wants to try a few practice laning sessions against me, let me know.
Bloodthirster was sort of buffed this patch despite the -2% Life Steal. It's cheaper to make and gives more (base) AD, making it more efficient at lower stacks.
If all else fails, stack Black Cleavers.
Good rationale. I'm still hesitant on it but I forgot the first sightstone also gives health. It definitely helps justify the cost. The key will be getting it as early as possible. But can you skip a gp/10 item for it? Probably can skip boots now but not sure if you'd want to go sightstone first or a gp/10.
The problem I have with the early Sightstone is that it builds out of nothing. There's no starting item to buy to go into it. I may just do a Flask + Wards start to get right into Sightstone and then Philo (if Shurelya's) or Kage's (if Shard, Twin Shadows). And then Mikael's fits some-fucking-how.
As for GP10, think of it this way: Season 3 has given you 3GP10 for free. If you can make up 2 GP10 via Pickpocket (4 attacks per minute as ranged, 2.4 attacks per minute as melee), your Season 3 baseline GP10 is the same as Season 2 with 1 GP10 item. Now factor that many of the items are slightly cheaper and that Sightstone is already more GP10, albeit limited to Wards only, and you're slightly ahead than Season 2 in gold even without a GP10 item.
actually I find only having the sight stone to be fun because you can intuit when you need a ward at a certain place and not at another place (for bot: riv, bot bushes, tri, enemy tri, sometimes blu)
i mean obviously you should buy more wards, but having a ward disappear immediately after you place one is fun to me
edit: I'd like to hear more from y'all about sightstone in other lanes. Like the thing that messes with me the most is how much it costs. If you're in another lane having a nice laning item is pretty crucial to winning it, or at least that's how it was in S2. like how is "falling behind" mitigated?, especially since sightstone kind of exists as an item that needs to pay for itself through constant use
edit dos: peace out locodoco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjdVGvkSDOA&NR=1
I've only played two games but right now I still feel like philo + wards + pots start is still the strongest way to go. I don't favor a sightstone rush because very early on the philo(or its very cheap pieces) sustain has a very real impact on the laning phase.
Depending on tanky support or more ap oriented support determines where you go after that. On ap supports I'm leaning heavily towards kages to shard then it's either shurelyas or zekes depending on team needs. Mikaels I want for the active but find it hard to justify building compared to the other possibilities, but I need to actually get late enough to use it and find out how it operates in team fights.
Tanky supports for me look like aegis/bulwark, banner, shurelias. I haven't looked at a late game extra armor source for a tanky support without the easy randuins upgrade, so that's still up in the air.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
So many changes. It's like an entirely new game.
UI will take some getting used to. Scoreboard items are too small and skills are too big (especially the giant "+").
The bottle item from Dota is interesting.
UI will take some getting used to. Scoreboard items are too small and skills are too big (especially the giant "+").
The bottle item from Dota is interesting.
It's a huge up front cost for vision in lane. Like, I buy a good amount of wards (2 every back, unless my cs is miserable and I'm force to be a pauper with 1 ward) but even that is hard to justify _700 Gold_ (450 after Health adjustment). Then again, that's three backs worth of wards for me and it saves me some incidental gold here-and-there later in the game. And then, if/when I need to sell the item, that's 490 Gold back. Long term wise, it's hard to argue against the item. Even without the health, it only needs 3 wards to be a worthwhile investment if you plan to sell the item.
Short-term, though, it falls into this weird situation of "When the fuck do I get this item?" I've been starting Longsword or Cloth on Riven top so lets use my LS start. If I save up until I have 1400 Gold on my first back, do I get a Longsword/Vamp Scepter + Sightstone + Cloth Armor? Or do I get a Brutalizer and a Longsword (or Boots, Cloth Armor) with a ward and secure a lead in lane first? How much is vision worth, anyway? Do I back at 700 Gold just for Sightstone? Wait for 1100 to get at least one more item with it?
I'm tempted to say: Depends on the game. If I don't want to try to bully the laner and/or the enemy jungler is a good ganker, I'll play defensively and delay the early Brutalizer for constant vision (+ Health, I guess). If it's someone I can bully in lane (or if I already bullied them in lane), I'll capitalize on my lane advantage with damage items early and then get a Sightstone for protecting my lead when I'm pushing the lane up. Especially since their jungler should now be trying to deal with me.
I imagine this logic will apply to basically every AD top I play that starts Longsword or Cloth.
Flask + Biscuit + Explorer's Ward + 2x Sight Wards + 1x Vision Ward is the start I'm thinking for the early Sightstone. Philo's (health) sustain took a pretty big hit (15 HP5 -> 7 HP5) so it doesn't compare quite as favorably to a Flask for sustain. It comes down to the benefit of the Sightstone's Health and better vision vs GP10 and not having to put down 700 Gold at once. Though, honestly, your first back tends to be around the 700 Gold mark anyway (520g for Philo, 150g for at least two wards).
None of the Passives are Unique. 4 of them is 1000 Health, 200 AD, 40% CDR, 60 Armor Pen, and -30% Armor Shred (still capped to the four stacks). There's a good chance this will be changed in the future like Brutalizer and Youmuu's Unique CDR/ArPen.
Flask is worthless as a replacement for mana pots if you're attempting to use then to bully someone out of lane with harass. Flask is a defensive item used if you're the passive part of the lane that is playing for late game, or you don't need the mana. Faerie charm alone provides me with more mana over the course of my first trip bot than a flask will while building towards my philo.
I used the Teleport+Homeguard trick with J4 to tower dive bot. Enemy bot lane is pushed to our tower, I teleport to a ward in the bush, enemy team tries to retreat, I run at them with the billion move speed from Homeguard and ult them under the tower. Use Ohmewrecker after taking a few tower shots, my team cleans up. I'M HELPING!
Anyone tried Karma since the S3 patch hit? In S2, her biggest problem was that her base stats sucked and provided little utility without gold. However, with a bit of gold, she got pretty powerful which is why people player her as an AP mid. Now that gold is less of an issue for supports and many of the new support items have AP ratios, she seems like she would be in a pretty good spot, even without the upcoming rework.
I really like the 100/300 HP boost,, placing 10 wards is nothing, and with no secondary source of income, it might be a necessary evil. Unless you're willing to go Kage's, but I don't see much of a point for it on a support.
I kinda wish the first ward you place was specially marked on a map so you know which ward is gonna go away when you place a new one.
From my experience Karma's larger issue is that her abilities synergize far better with a melee champion than a ranged adc. She'll always be strong in a duo kill style lane with a bruiser and a bit under-utilized with a ranged carry.
EDIT: How is kages meh right now? Shard is amazing because it keeps your gp10 and gives a bit of ap while also adding a very useful active for disengage/pursuit. Kages is more widely upgradeable for all supports than hog ever was.
Never even thought about teleport+homeguard. That movespeed boost is so fun. Time to go Smite+Teleport Skarner jungle now.
I typically play Zyra support. Her mana expenditure in lane is pretty minor, enough so that Flask+Biscuit will last several minutes in lane. It also depends on how starved for mana you are. Flask is 120 Mana on demand; Faerie Charm needs 200 seconds (3m20s) to restore the same amount, an additional ~90 seconds (4m50s) if you factor in the biscuit (+50 Mana restored, stacks with Flask if you need to speed up the regen), though you have access to the biscuit as well. You also need to factor that Faerie Charm isn't actively regening whenever you're full on mana, though I suppose this time is limited to when you're walking to lane and basically never again during lane.
Flask + Biscuit gives me 5 minutes in lane worth of sustain. At ~20 GP10, that's roughly 600 gold. About when I'd be going back anyway.
Pop Crystalline Flask charges as well for 30s of bonus regen. The Flask will refill while on the platform.
You can't stack beyond three stacks of the Flask active, for the record. As much fun as infinite regen Teleport Homeguard ganks would've been.
You don't find 25% flash cooldown useful? Captain is great if you're initiating for the team. Homeguard is probably my favorite because you heal instantly at fountain and can reach inhib turret so easily.
Homeward is fucking ridiculous, I hope it gets removed, really. You're sieging mid and a 900 MS unavoidable Rammus suddenly stuns you...
That's even better! Makes me wonder why I have been buying boots of mobility.
Step off the platform, spend mana and then pop them, step back on the platform to refresh Flask+Homeguard. You can do the same for top/mid lane. Blow some mana somehow, pop all three Flask charges, instantly refresh them, walk to lane with boosted regen. Similarly, you can speed up regen on the platform by popping your Flask as soon as you back as well.
If you're Teleporting somewhere and you have Flask, there's literally no reason to not get three stacks of Flask regen running before TPing.
Kage's has solid upgrade paths and getting "free" AP on a GP10 item is always good. There's really no reason to not get Kage's at some point, honestly.
Captain is 750g to speed up split pushing (set up lane to push, back to heal, haste all the minions going to the pushing lane). Furor is a great way to give bonus chase potential (or better kiting) to an ADC for 650g. For what they do, most of them are pretty damn cost efficient.
Use a skill, then pop it.
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