Support NeoGAF

[scy]

Crucible for making some plays. Cost isn't that bad considering the active is 2 summoner spells in one but shorter CD than either of them.

It's barely shorter than Cleanse (210s), though quite a bit shorter than Heal (300s). Then again, Heal is also better due to AoE (though no scaling) and there's the inherent delay of using Crucible on a target of a hard CC as opposed to them Cleansing themselves. Which, personally, I find to be the worst part of Crucible: The whole user delay is about half the hard CC duration anyway.

I dunno. Crucible feels too weak right now. Or, I guess, Locket feels too good in comparison? Something like that. I wouldn't be against Crucible buffs!

Tried AD Thresh on PBE. If have 1.00 ASPD, it's a 20% AD steroid overall at max level Range is too tiny to make it any viable. Buuuut since Riot doesn't want you to play champs in a way they didnt design (AP Lulu, AP Rengar, Tank Rengar) I'm guessing they'll nerf Q to remove AD scaling but make it scale much stronger with souls.

Tank Rengar design issue was more how absurdly good it was. Considering that he's still played similarly, I'd not really chalk it up the same as AP Lulu and AP Rengar (which was a terrible build anyway).

That said, Bruiser Thresh is fun. His short range is irrelevant there and he can bully basically all the melees. His slow wave clear makes it hard to push the lane but it also means he gets forced to sit under tower and just farm with his Q Passive. On top of that, being under tower means he can drag people into tower range for free kills. Hitting late game with him means 4-5k+ Health with a good amount of base AP and Armor as well. It's pretty fun.

Plus, it means I get to play Thresh AND top lane!

 

[Schmattakopf]

I'm still getting Shurelya's, usually after Aegis. I should probably be getting Locket in most cases, but it feels like Shurelya's is still needed a lot, and it builds out of Philo.

 

[Wolf Akela]

I dunno. Crucible feels too weak right now. Or, I guess, Locket feels too good in comparison? Something like that. I wouldn't be against Crucible buffs!

I forgot Locket got buffed, I keep forgetting that item existed. Yeah, the AoE shield would be nice too.

I didn't consider bruiser Thresh. Seems like he's in an awkward position since you build AD to make him stronger but his Q is magic damage. Hybrid pen runes should be great on him.

 

[brian!]

Soda carried me through placement matches and now I'm in closer and kiunch's league, woooo.

Spoiler

I will be there forever.

yeah boyyyy

 

[Diprosalic]

i can't quit this stupid game (ranked). i barely edged out a win with going 23-2 as ADC. my jax left after i told him (excact words) "be a bit less agressive jax", he then told me to stfu and chose between him leaving or him feeding. i took the first option and closed it out 4v5...

 

[dimb]

I'm still getting Shurelya's, usually after Aegis. I should probably be getting Locket in most cases, but it feels like Shurelya's is still needed a lot, and it builds out of Philo.

Just hold the Philo and build cool stuff.

 

[garath]

I'm still getting Shurelya's, usually after Aegis. I should probably be getting Locket in most cases, but it feels like Shurelya's is still needed a lot, and it builds out of Philo.

One thing that I've stopped doing is buying GP/10. With heart of gold gone and not really wanting a Shureliya's, I haven't been getting any. But I'm thinking it's a mistake. I feel so poor all the time.

I just don't like what limited stuff you can build out of GP/10 now

Maybe I'll start taking kage's and build a late morellonomincon out of it as Zyra lol.

 

[brian!]

Nyjacky's voice is the most annoying thing I've ever heard.

u wrong

 

[bjaelke]

No love for Zeke's? I think it's still great despite the removal of AS.

I just don't like what limited stuff you can build out of GP/10 now

Neither does Riot judging by the PBE update.

 

[Ferga]

I use to build starks (screw zekes.) on my utility/tank junglers when I was ahead because of attack speed.

I just can't imagine a support buying it early on. It'll be a pretty late item imo.

 

[garath]

No love for Zeke's? I think it's still great despite the removal of AS.


Neither does Riot judging by the PBE update.

Zeke's is soooo expensive and the components do nothing for a support char.

fake edit: I forgot they changed the recipe. The components are little better now. Still expensive though. I'll have to re-evaluate buying that on an AD heavy team.

 

[scy]

@Zeke's - Don't know what Support I'd buy it on for lane. Or what kind of team comp you'd want it on. It just feels like it's meant for utility AD Bruiser more than support and, even then, it's not that great. I dunno.

I'm still getting Shurelya's, usually after Aegis. I should probably be getting Locket in most cases, but it feels like Shurelya's is still needed a lot, and it builds out of Philo.

I don't even bother with Philo anymore when I play Support. Granted, I've been playing more in-your-face supports that want the earlier bulk.

I just don't like Shurelya's anymore. The stats are kind of meh and the active, while nice, just doesn't do as much as other items. It's basically a nice to have item but there's so many other better team fight items to me.

I didn't consider bruiser Thresh. Seems like he's in an awkward position since you build AD to make him stronger but his Q is magic damage. Hybrid pen runes should be great on him.

You just build pure tank. Warmog's, Sunfire Cape, Locket, etc. His Q is total AD so you're fine with just his base values, really.

Hybrid Pen aren't that great for him, imo. You don't build enough damage to warrant them for the late game and flat AD gives you better early game control.

 

[zkylon]

I'd get Morello's before Deathcap; Deathcap after the changes is a bit more cost efficient (finally over 3.2k gold worth of AP!) but you're better off getting another AP item first, generally speaking.

Eh I don't care about cost efficiency, I just buy what works and feels good for me. I want to destroy people mid game and win the game there, Morello's doesn't get me there like Deatchap does.

If my jungler is dumb and doesn't give me blue buff then maybe.

I can't imagine not going some kind of sustain and Ward start, even against a melee. Faerie Charm + 1 Ward + 6 Pots or something.

If I get matched against Akali I just ask jungler to give me a gank level 2, we get first blood and I buy wards right after. Easy-ruuu

Worth note: 9/0/21 starts with 10% CDR and reaches flat 40% with Athene's + Morello's! :x

Yeah I might try it sometime, but I like the offensive tree, I feel that Lux benefits a lot from every bit of damage you give her.

Voyboy had 50k viewers. That's what happened.

Yeah fuck that. It was mid tho.

 

[bjaelke]

@Zeke's - Don't know what Support I'd buy it on for lane. Or what kind of team comp you'd want it on. It just feels like it's meant for utility AD Bruiser more than support and, even then, it's not that great. I dunno.

I often get Zeke's on support Nunu when the jungler/top laner gets Bulwark and Shurelia's as I tend to stay with the AD carry for the majority of the game (except when clearing wards/warding).

 

[Ferga]

Relearning Akali. Seeing too many nice akali plays. Must relearn.

 

[Diprosalic]

anything less than that and we lose in ranked....

 

[kayos90]

Relearning Akali. Seeing too many nice akali plays. Must relearn.

You never forget how to play her. She's always in your heart brah.

 

[Ferga]

Nope. Last 3 games, I was casting my R like a second before my Q hit so my first auto attack isn't procing the mark.

Screws up the whole combo/harass thing when you mess that up.

Gots to be more patient

 

[mercviper]

You never forget how to play her. She's always in your heart brah.

The only thing Akali players forget is that pink wards exist.

 

[scy]

The only thing Akali players forget is that pink wards exist.

So does your average laner.

 

[LCGeek]

The only thing Akali players forget is that pink wards exist.

or oracles. Love using it or having one before they realize that. She just sits there for an easy 2 seconds and dies as easily as any other squish does.

 

[mercviper]

So does your average laner.

It's up to us to remind them.

Spoiler

And stomp them in the process.

or oracles. Love using it or having one before they realize that. She just sits there for an easy 2 seconds and dies as easily as any other squish does.

Yeah but oracles is too expensive for what it does right now. 5 minutes, 400g, AND loss on death? no thx. I'd rather buy 3 pink wards given the amount of time that you need it for to shut down akali.

 

[LCGeek]

anything less than that and we lose in ranked....

ADCs don't mean much to be honest if you're intending to win. Take a support or tank if you want more control of the team late or mid game. All the damage be it a top, mid, or bot adc are useless if these two roles suck.

Yeah but oracles is too expensive for what it does right now. 5 minutes, 400g, AND loss on death? no thx. I'd rather buy 3 pink wards given the amount of time that you need it for to shut down akali.

You usually do that stuff when I play all I see is an akali in the middle of shit thinking we can't see her before she explodes in burst of true damage, magic, and attack. Leona/vayne ftw!

 

[Pancakes]

ADCs don't mean much to be honest if you're intending to win. Take a support or tank if you want more control of the team late or mid game. All the damage be it a top, mid, or bot adc are useless if these two roles suck.

ADCs can carry games but lately I'm seeing games get decided by the top laners and junglers. I wish I could say support can truly carry games. Set up as many plays as you like, if your AD carry is dumb as bricks nothing will come of it.

 

[mercviper]

ADCs can carry games but lately I'm seeing games get decided by the top laners and junglers. I wish I could say support can truly carry games. Set up as many plays as you like, if your AD carry is dumb as bricks nothing will come of it.

I think if you really want to carry a shittier team as ADC you have to really be above and beyond in terms of mechanics/positioning. Without competent help from your team it's so easy to shut down an ADC.

 

[Ferga]

Take todays game where i was 17/2 twitch with a full build.

I couldn't kill a single damn thing.

Riots all like lets nerf adc items and then lower the cost of tank items and up their stats.

 

[LCGeek]

ADCs can carry games but lately I'm seeing games get decided by the top laners and junglers. I wish I could say support can truly carry games. Set up as many plays as you like, if your AD carry is dumb as bricks nothing will come of it.

My sentiment was simple since I can easily use a top or a bot as some have seen. You don't have proper support or tanking any decent team will focus you down when its your time or right away if you're that bad in organizing late game or doing things right. That's pure death for any role in this game but more so for people who will be the biggest target should a 4 or 5 man from the enemy team start a fight.

You should say support or tanks carry the game. One of the can do the best cc or initation as possible while the other has a whole assorment of buffs to help you live better, ressurect, and out make your damage as effective as it can be. You need an edge late game if you have none, one or two bad plays and they can just go up to any lane taking it out and nexus before you can even respawn.

 

[bjaelke]

Take todays game where i was 17/2 twitch with a full build.

I couldn't kill a single damn thing.

Riots all like lets nerf adc items and then lower the cost of tank items and up their stats.

que?

 

[PhillipCostigan]

I think if you really want to carry a shittier team as ADC you have to really be above and beyond in terms of mechanics/positioning. Without competent help from your team it's so easy to shut down an ADC.

Yup, especially in the League of Assassins.

 

[Pancakes]

que?

Can't kill anything when your front line is nonexistent.

 

[Zerokku]

So as I'm playing a bunch of champions to learn the game and get a feel for what I like, I think I found a "main" of sorts - Cho'gath. I understand my role as Cho'Gath is usually tank-ish in the top lane. Any suggestions/advice/etc. I should know as I play him? Since I'm still learning the ropes it's still versus bots, but yah.

Also, is kill stealing a big deal mechanically or more of an epeen thing? Had a guy rage at me because I ate the dude we both were attacking.

Sorry for the noob questions.

 

[Diprosalic]

ADCs don't mean much to be honest if you're intending to win. Take a support or tank if you want more control of the team late or mid game. All the damage be it a top, mid, or bot adc are useless if these two roles suck.

if i'm not playing ADC the other teams adc will get fed so much we have absolutely no chance at winning. that's why i'm picking adc myself.

Also, is kill stealing a big deal mechanically or more of an epeen thing? Had a guy rage at me because I ate the dude we both were attacking.

Sorry for the noob questions.

the better you get the less people complain about kill stealing. a kill is a kill. only time i really mind if a supporter takes the kill from the ADC.

 

[bjaelke]

Can't kill anything when your front line is nonexistent.

With a score like that I just assumed that their front line would be underfarmed.

Also, is kill stealing a big deal mechanically or more of an epeen thing? Had a guy rage at me because I ate the dude we both were attacking.

Sorry for the noob questions.

It's all epeen. If you play the support role you might want to let the other players on the team get the kill. A kill gives you X amount of gold + kill streak. An assist gives you X/2 which is then evenly distributed between all champions who assisted in the kill.

 

[scy]

que?

I'm not entirely sure that was his exact score but he couldn't do much outside of picking people off over the course of the hour long game. A lot of fights where one or two people would die but their tanks (Elise, Cho'gath) were such a wall that they'd never die or they'd take the entire fight to go down; it was a long series of 3-2, 4-4, 5-4, etc. sort of exchanges where we lost a lot due to how long Twitch was kept from the actual fight.

Edit: Put another way, it was less "I can't kill anything" and more, "I can't kill anything fast enough."

Plus just the general range gap with a Kayle/(non-ult) Twitch vs Lux/Caitlyn. It got to the point that the extra ~300 unit range between us was enough to chunk anyone to half or less. I had to focus what was diving rather than going after squishies. Of course, we also had some general bad fights and didn't press an advantage when we had it but that's another issue entirely.

Essentially, we needed a harder diver on the initiate (e.g., Nocturne) while also getting more tank in our setup (Kayle mid instead of top, a big bruiser top instead) if we wanted to do something in the late game. Alternatively, taking our chances and hard engaging when Lux ult was down.

 

[brian!]

I just wanna say
I really like merc's attitude, like if that is the thing that ranked fosters it's really a wonderful thing
wishful thinking tho probably

 

[scy]

I think if you really want to carry a shittier team as ADC you have to really be above and beyond in terms of mechanics/positioning. Without competent help from your team it's so easy to shut down an ADC.

Which is why I play top lane, zzzzzzz get ganks pretend to be good gg

;_;

 

[Cathcart]

Wow, 18k for a set of hybrid pen marks. Was thinking they would be good for Ori and TF though since I've been playing those two a lot mid. Whatchu guys think?


Edit: lol my reading, 18k was how much IP I'd have left, the total was more like 8k.

 

[mercviper]

I just wanna say
I really like merc's attitude, like if that is the thing that ranked fosters it's really a wonderful thing
wishful thinking tho probably

Each of your posts
it's like an xcloser version of a haiku
you should write a book of poems

 

[Pancakes]

Each of your posts
it's like an xcloser version of a haiku
you should write a book of poems

The problem with ranked
Is that people complain about bad teammates and not themselves
You can't improve other players, but you can improve yourself

 

[garath]

Wow, 18k for a set of hybrid pen marks. Was thinking they would be good for Ori and TF though since I've been playing those two a lot mid. Whatchu guys think?

Voyboy often
uses hybrid marks
for the champions he plays

 

[scy]

I just wanna say
I really like merc's attitude, like if that is the thing that ranked fosters it's really a wonderful thing
wishful thinking tho probably

Merc's got probably one of the better attitudes among us. That or he rages quietly off-screen when we're not looking.

I want to focus on being a better person while playing; my worst laning habit is underestimating my opponent. Or, rather, "They won't do that" happens a lot.

Wow, 18k for a set of hybrid pen marks. Was thinking they would be good for Ori and TF though since I've been playing those two a lot mid. Whatchu guys think?

Personally, I think that any AP that auto-attacks on a regular basis will gain more from the ArPen part of the Hybrid runes than they lose in the late game Spell Pen. If you have the IP to spare for it, I'd say to go ahead with it.

This reminds me that I should swap out my pages since I have a set of Hybrid Pens ;_;

Edit: If you want some math on it, you trade 2.25 Spell Pen for 8.1 Armor Pen; at base Armor/MR values (e.g., 30 - 40 range), you're talking about losing ~1-2% Magic Damage for ~6% Physical Damage on average. Essentially, a 1:4 split. So, if you deal at least 20% of your damage in physical, your net damage with Hybrid Pens will at least match up with full Spell Pen. If you do more than 20% of your damage in physical, you'll come out even better.

Considering your average low level AD of around 50, you need to auto once for every 200 spell damage you do. In the case of Orianna, to give a concrete example, that's 1 auto-attack for every QWE that you land.

You can't improve other players, but you can improve yourself

This is my philosophy, essentially.

 

[Cathcart]

Voyboy often
uses hybrid marks
for the champions he plays

Personally, I think that any AP that auto-attacks on a regular basis will gain more from the ArPen part of the Hybrid runes than they lose in the late game Spell Pen. If you have the IP to spare for it, I'd say to go ahead with it.

Thanks you guys
I'll try to be more like Voyboy and scy
scya nerds

 

[mercviper]

Merc's got probably one of the better attitudes among us. That or he rages quietly off-screen when we're not looking.

I just rage at myself when I fuck up and get really quiet when disheartened. I'm probably way too patient with everyone else if compared to normal tempers. :x

Personally, I think that any AP that auto-attacks on a regular basis will gain more from the ArPen part of the Hybrid runes than they lose in the late game Spell Pen. If you have the IP to spare for it, I'd say to go ahead with it.

This reminds me that I should swap out my pages since I have a set of Hybrid Pens ;_;

Edit: If you want some math on it, you trade 2.25 Spell Pen for 8.1 Armor Pen; at base Armor/MR values (e.g., 30 - 40 range), you're talking about losing ~1-2% Magic Damage for ~6% Physical Damage on average. Essentially, a 1:4 split. So, if you deal at least 20% of your damage in physical, your net damage with Hybrid Pens will at least match up with full Spell Pen. If you do more than 20% of your damage in physical, you'll come out even better.

Considering your average low level AD of around 50, you need to auto once for every 200 spell damage you do. In the case of Orianna, to give a concrete example, that's 1 auto-attack for every QWE that you land.

So you're telling me that I should've been getting hybrid marks for all my Annie games. Probably 1/3rd my harass in lane is from autos as Annie.

 

[bjaelke]

In the case of Orianna, to give a concrete example, that's 1 auto-attack for every QWE that you land.

It actually makes a lot of sense with AP mids in general, but Orianna's passive allows her to deal a lot of magic damage - even when auto attacking.

Clockwork Windup
Orianna’s autoattacks deal an additional 10 / 18 / 26 / 34 / 42 / 50 (+ 15% AP) magic damage every hit. Additionally, attacking the same target within 4 seconds deals an extra 20% magic damage on the second hit, and 40% extra on the third and further hits.

 

[Avinexus]

Wow, 18k for a set of hybrid pen marks. Was thinking they would be good for Ori and TF though since I've been playing those two a lot mid. Whatchu guys think?


Edit: lol my reading, 18k was how much IP I'd have left, the total was more like 8k.

EDIT: nvm, its been mentioned.

 

[LCGeek]

I just rage at myself when I fuck up and get really quiet when disheartened. I'm probably way too patient with everyone else if compared to normal tempers. :x

You have me and the hate/beast mode is strong. This comment I cannot compute you seem calm compared to my moments.

 

[scy]

I just rage at myself when I fuck up and get really quiet when disheartened. I'm probably way too patient with everyone else if compared to normal tempers. :x

"The fuck are we doing?" - Me way too often.

(Alternatively, "Why the fuck was he still there?! OH GODDDDD THIS JUNGLER")

I do sigh a lot.

So you're telling me that I should've been getting hybrid marks for all my Annie games. Probably 1/3rd my harass in lane is from autos as Annie.

Basically.

If you want an easy way to think of what 8 Armor looks like, check the damage you deal vs a target two levels higher than you. Quite a few get around 3-4 Armor per level so it's an easy way to check. Alternatively, look at the difference in damage you take with Armor Masteries and without, though that'll only show you the change from +0 and +5.

Or just trust me when I say you'll do about 5-6% more damage per hit which, for most APs, is around +3 Damage per auto-attack.

It actually makes a lot of sense with AP mids in general, but Orianna's passive allows her to deal a lot of magic damage - even when auto attacking.

1 QWE at low levels is 190 Damage (assuming Rank 1 in each). Her auto-attack is around 50 AD with +10 Magic Damage which gets us right to 50:200 :x

It doesn't actually change the numbers. If anything, it's more proof that she wants Hybrid Pen anyway.

 

[Blizzard]

or oracles. Love using it or having one before they realize that. She just sits there for an easy 2 seconds and dies as easily as any other squish does.

I used to get pink against Akali too. I really need to read up on her passives or veil bonuses though. I tried buying the oracle extract in an ARAM game against akali once and she had like 100 armor sitting in veil with no armor items? I mean she -might- have had an AOE boost from someone else on her team having aegis or something, but I just remember seeing her defensive stats being shockingly high and us not being able to kill her due to that.

 

[scy]

I used to get pink against Akali too. I really need to read up on her passives or veil bonuses though. I tried buying the oracle extract in an ARAM game against akali once and she had like 100 armor sitting in veil with no armor items? I mean she -might- have had an AOE boost from someone else on her team having aegis or something, but I just remember seeing her defensive stats being shockingly high and us not being able to kill her due to that.

+10-50 Armor/MR.

 

[Ken]

So as I'm playing a bunch of champions to learn the game and get a feel for what I like, I think I found a "main" of sorts - Cho'gath. I understand my role as Cho'Gath is usually tank-ish in the top lane. Any suggestions/advice/etc. I should know as I play him? Since I'm still learning the ropes it's still versus bots, but yah.

Also, is kill stealing a big deal mechanically or more of an epeen thing? Had a guy rage at me because I ate the dude we both were attacking.

Sorry for the noob questions.

I like playing him mid lane since he can survive most other AP mid bursts. Only real important thing to know about Cho'Gath is to land your ruptures or else people get mad. Also keep your silence ready to silence important ultimates like Kat ult. What else...his passive lets you stay in lane longer than most other laners but he has a pretty weak early game before he starts getting feast stacks. Because his early game is kind of eh I don't build Rod of Ages like some people. Items I like to build on him are Athene's, Abyssal Scepter, and Frozen Heart.

Dunno, he's a pretty simple character. Just reliant on landing those ruptures.