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League of Legends |OT3| Lizards are red, golems are blue. Give a leash or no gank 4 u

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dan2026

Member
Honestly, stop thinking it's out of your control. If you lose the game, then it's your fault.

Sorry dude but that is just plain wrong.
Its a five man team, even if one guy played the best game he's ever going to have, if the others do badly he is not going to win.

Anyway I feel like playing another game now, surprisingly enough.
Lost my first ranked today, I think its time for a win.
 

Opiate

Member
Yep, especially if you main ADC. Are you supposed to be ganking other lanes? Leaving bot to ward mid because they absolutely refuse to do so?

Yes, you could always have done something better. But losing is not always your fault. It's a silly mentality to have.

I don't really agree. I see no downside to always blaming yourself unless you take LoL seriously and attach your skill in a silly little game to your quality as a person.

If you blame yourself, the worst case scenario is that you're wrong, and nothing happens. The best case scenario is that you see what you did wrong and learn from it.

If you blame others, the best case scenario is that you're right, and nothing happens. The forces which caused the error are outside of your control. However, the worst case scenario is that you're wrong, and that it is your fault, and you could have learned something if your ego didn't get it in the way.

I see very little downside to assuming fault in this case. If it were my job? I would probably operate differently. But for a silly game like this, I blame myself every time. It has the added benefit of making you less mean spirited to those you feel are "to blame."
 
Sorry dude but that is just plain wrong.
Its a five man team, even if one guy played the best game he's ever going to have, if the others do badly he is not going to win.

Anyway I feel like playing another game now, surprisingly enough.
Lost my first ranked today, I think its time for a win.
If you always win your lane, and you always go positive, you'll go up overtime. It's 20% less suck in your team's part.

If you always just stalemate your lane, on average you're not really gonna move.
 

scy

Member
I generally agree with this but take exception to the bolded, which I feel is too much of a generalization. To take an extreme example, if you have 2 or 3 people who are afk the entire game, I think you are unlikely to win no matter how good you are, and I think it's fair to say it is not your fault in that case.

Of course it's a generalization. What else could it be? There's always going to be some outlier case (e.g., AFKs, people feeding intentionally, etc.). I'm not talking about those. I'm talking about those games where it just comes down to people making mistakes.

I agree that in most cases there are things each player can personally do to improve, and that's a good thing to focus on. What is not a good thing is to tear oneself up about each game, stress about how everything happens is one's own fault, and so forth. I do this, it's unhealthy, and it hurts performance. I think it would be better to focus on personal improvement, but also remember it's just a videogame, and try to improve while also not stressing over it.

Which is a different problem entirely. I'm saying to focus more on what you could have done better. This isn't "It's all my fault, I'm the worst player" kind of thing. This is "I spent too long in top lane instead of just taking it." "I didn't roam enough as mid." "I could have cs'd better and had an extra item."

I'm saying to not go "If not for this mid, we would have won." "Our ADC is bad." "Is it Darius free week?" Don't care about what mistakes they made. You won't fix it. You have no control over them. You can control yourself and can control what you do in the game to influence it. Focus on that. Focusing on everyone else is how you be a bad player. Don't do that.

Yep, especially if you main ADC. Are you supposed to be ganking other lanes? Leaving bot to ward mid because they absolutely refuse to do so?

You push your tower and rotate to another lane. You force situations where you get a Dragon. You may not roam to gank but you can still cause pressure on the flow of the game.

Granted, as ADC, you do have the least amount of roaming options. You're basically just trying to force the game to move forward.

Yes, you could always have done something better. But losing is not always your fault. It's a silly mentality to have. You do need to constantly improve but sometimes that means learning how to compensate for having completely shit players on your team.

That's exactly what I was saying. I guess I should have worded it better but my entire point was to just look at your own play, not everyone else. If there's someone to blame, blame yourself so you can find how to improve. You won't be improving the other players. Who cares about them?

I just find the whole "I get nothing but bad players" is an excuse. Don't do that.

Sorry dude but that is just plain wrong.
Its a five man team, even if one guy played the best game he's ever going to have, if the others do badly he is not going to win.

It's up to the person who gets fed to carry the game. That's kind of their role. Sometimes you get a team that literally cannot function together but you can still do things to win the game. Don't make the excuse of "This team is so bad there's nothing I can do."

If you consistently win your lane AND lose the game then, yes, you are most likely doing something wrong.

Edit: Basically, your takeaway from a lost game should immediately be, "How could I have done better?" rather than, "dis team right here elo hell amirite?"

I don't really agree. I see no downside to always blaming yourself unless you take LoL seriously and attach your skill in a silly little game to your quality as a person.

My Win:Loss record is my entire being.
 
pzN35Wf.png


what is this good for?
 

scy

Member
It's entirely a PBE feature for testing games that get stomped on or someone leaves for. It's most likely never making it to live.
 

dan2026

Member
Bah we lost again.
This time it was mainly because the top playing Garen lost heavy to Jarvan IV.

I was playing support Sona and assisting Vayne.
We had a really tough lane but we won out in the end.

It was a losing battle all the way through, not much chance of victory.
 
You push your tower and rotate to another lane. You force situations where you get a Dragon. You may not roam to gank but you can still cause pressure on the flow of the game.

So you're saying you should blow mana and push the lane as much as possible, opening yourself up to jungle ganks just to wander mid across dragon which is probably warded to gank even though you and your support might have no good ganking potential?

And what do you mean by cause pressure? Roam mid and push that as well, taking their farm and xp? It just doesn't DO anything for your team. Yeah, you could try to force dragon or take their blue at that point but it's extremely risky and early game very dependent on team comp concerning whether or not that's even a good play at all.

As ADC, your best way to influence the game is to not push your lane, farm, and try to keep dragon and bot lane warded as best as possible. Get kills off the enemy lane and deny them farm as much as possible. Get as much of an advantage as you possibly can and take their dragon, tower, or blue ONLY when the opportunity has been created. Get farmed and do what you're supposed to do - carry mid to late game.

If your mid and top go 0-5 in ten minutes, there is literally nothing the bottom lane can do to help them that is effective other than warding their bushes or ganking if the support has roam potential, which is only a few of them.

I just find the whole "I get nothing but bad players" is an excuse. Don't do that.

I agree with this, however.

I don't really agree. I see no downside to always blaming yourself unless you take LoL seriously and attach your skill in a silly little game to your quality as a person.

If you blame yourself, the worst case scenario is that you're wrong, and nothing happens. The best case scenario is that you see what you did wrong and learn from it.

If you blame others, the best case scenario is that you're right, and nothing happens. The forces which caused the error are outside of your control. However, the worst case scenario is that you're wrong, and that it is your fault, and you could have learned something if your ego didn't get it in the way.

I see very little downside to assuming fault in this case. If it were my job? I would probably operate differently. But for a silly game like this, I blame myself every time. It has the added benefit of making you less mean spirited to those you feel are "to blame."

But why be wrong at all when you know you did your job? You're dismissing logic in favor of looking at it as just a "silly game".

I try my best not to be mean spirited to players that clearly, 100% their fault, played like shit. But identifying them as the shit players also helps you understand what you can do to carry shit players, especially as a jungler. You learn their mentality, why they make the same horrible mistakes over and over, and how to adapt your solo que performance to make up for their shortcomings.

If every one of my lanes if winning, I am going to play VERY differently than if they are all losing. But if they are all losing and I've been bot farming for 10 minutes, what good does it do me to say I fucked up this game? It's just wrong.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Bah we lost again.
This time it was mainly because the top playing Garen lost heavy to Jarvan IV.

I was playing support Sona and assisting Vayne.
We had a really tough lane but we won out in the end.

It was a losing battle all the way through, not much chance of victory.
I don't know how champ select went but if you saw Garen you could pick something that kites him better. He is super susceptible to kiting even if he gets fed. You want to try to make sure your picks fit with your team as well. Sona and Vayne do not really have much synergy.

I had bad placement matches and got put in bronze. No big deal. Took me like a week or less to get to silver.
carried by schmatta
Even if you are trying to carry you have to kind of coordinate with your team and try to create opportunities for you to work together with them.

Or just play Twisted Fate. Free wins at that level.
 

scy

Member
So you're saying you should blow mana and push the lane as much as possible, opening yourself up to jungle ganks just to wander mid across dragon which is probably warded to gank even though you and your support might have no good ganking potential?

You take the tower. You force the game to move on rather than sit there in a laning phase where your other lanes aren't going to be able to recover / are only going to fall further and further behind. You take your advantage and make the game move forward. You can farm forever if you have enough faith in you carrying every team fight.

Like I said though, ADC has the least options to them for influencing the game. At best, you create situations where the enemy team focuses more effort on you rather than the rest of the map. You don't have the luxury of top lane or mid of roaming to try and actively do things in other lane.

You don't make plays (barring taking a tower to force the end of laning phase), you create the situations for plays to be made across the map. You do well in lane to do what's needed for the long-term.

But if they are all losing and I've been bot farming for 10 minutes, what good does it do me to say I fucked up this game? It's just wrong.

Stop focusing on the outlier situations that are irrelevant.

The point is to reflect on what you could have done better. Don't blame others. You recognize that your other lanes did poorly but that still leaves the follow-up question: "What could I have done to help?"

This applies even when you win. Don't settle. You can always do something better somehow.
 
I don't really agree. I see no downside to always blaming yourself unless you take LoL seriously and attach your skill in a silly little game to your quality as a person.

If you blame yourself, the worst case scenario is that you're wrong, and nothing happens. The best case scenario is that you see what you did wrong and learn from it.

If you blame others, the best case scenario is that you're right, and nothing happens. The forces which caused the error are outside of your control. However, the worst case scenario is that you're wrong, and that it is your fault, and you could have learned something if your ego didn't get it in the way.

I see very little downside to assuming fault in this case. If it were my job? I would probably operate differently. But for a silly game like this, I blame myself every time. It has the added benefit of making you less mean spirited to those you feel are "to blame."
If anyone is even slightly serious about improving, there is certainly no need to trivialise the game, and no need for blame. You can't improve and learn from a match without blaming yourself for it? Blame has its uses but improvement is a better general attitude. Best case scenario, you learn from the match. Worst case scenario, you learn from the match.
 

scy

Member
I think we're all just squabbling over word choice :x

Edit: I use "Blame" because the gut reaction is to blame SOMEBODY for the game. My personal goal right now is that I want to blame myself (to the point I have a "BLAME YOURSELF ONLY" stuck to my monitor) instead of anyone else. It's not the healthiest attitude if you take it really far ("I'm the worst player") but my goal is to assess the situation and see how I could have changed things. Focusing on myself entirely.
 

Opiate

Member
But why be wrong at all when you know you did your job? You're dismissing logic in favor of looking at it as just a "silly game".

Implicit in my last post was that you don't know you did your job. Humans are very poor at self analysis, and I don't trust you (or me) to actually have a complete, thorough, and truly objective analysis of the game you just played. Things are open to interpretation, and sometimes a "bad" move by your friend would have been a perfectly good move if you'd been in lock step with him, or vice versa.

Obviously in some cases it will be unquestionably clear who is at "fault." But typically it is not. I am suggesting you interpret the imprecise and incomplete information in a way that is as intensely critical of yourself as possible, because I believe it yields the most benefit for yourself.
 

Opiate

Member
If anyone is even slightly serious about improving, there is certainly no need to trivialise the game, and no need for blame. You can't improve and learn from a match without blaming yourself for it?

Yes. How do you know what to improve unless you first identify what the fault was? I think you are interpreting the word "blame" in a particularly mean spirited way; I can understand that it can take that connotation.

I am simply talking about what you identify as the fault in the play. Why did you lose? What problem was there that caused the other team to beat you?

I am suggesting that you assume the fault is your own as often as possible. If you believe there were no faults in your play (i.e. you are not "to blame"), then you have no reason to improve because you did nothing wrong.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Yes. How do you know what to improve unless you first identify what the fault was? I think you are intrepreting the word "blame" in a particularly mean spirited way; I can understand that it can take that connotation.

I am simply talking about what you identify as the fault in the play. Why did you lose? What problem was there that caused the other team to beat you?

I am suggesting that you assume the fault is your own as often as possible. If you believe there were no faults in your play (i.e. you are not "to blame"), then you have no reason to improve because you did nothing wrong.
I think it's fair to say that "blaming" someone for something has a fairly strong negative connotation, especially in the harsh atmosphere of MOBA player interaction.

I also think it's fair to say something like, "Focus on improving yourself rather than finding fault with others. If you made mistakes and learned something, good, that's something you can improve on next time. If you played very well and still lost, it's not the end of the world, and it might even be an unlucky game. Just maintain a positive attitude and move on while still paying attention to personal improvement."
 

bjaelke

Member
They probably added it to Quinn in the very last moment and figured it would boost sales if Sona wasn't considered a "competitor" in that particular area.
 
You can't improve and learn from a match without blaming yourself for it?
Yes. How do you know what to improve unless you first identify what the fault was?

I am suggesting that you assume the fault is your own as often as possible. If you believe there were no faults in your play (i.e. you are not "to blame"), then you have no reason to improve because you did nothing wrong.
Improving and improving from your faults is separate from blaming a match on yourself. You can learn from your own mistakes, from other peoples' mistakes, mistakes made as a group, mistakes made even though you won.

I think improvement is one part trying to have an understanding of which decisions caused the outcome, which you can't have if you are instantly assuming it was the same category of decisions every time.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
The art is really good and the sisters are still there, it's just weird new angle for Sona.

I like that she still has those subtly asian eyes.
 

Pancakes

hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
The art is really good and the sisters are still there, it's just weird new angle for Sona.

I like that she still has those subtly asian eyes.

Yea I don't understand why Riot likes having some female champs posing in spine bending angles for some reason.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Yea I don't understand why Riot likes having some female champs posing in spine bending angles for some reason.
It's that comic book thing where everyone has to be all twisted and contorted to show that ACTION IS HAPPENING YOU GUYS.

This Sona looks like she's swaying to the tune of her music but try to position yourself like she does, and it hurts :p
 
Implicit in my last post was that you don't know you did your job. Humans are very poor at self analysis, and I don't trust you (or me) to actually have a complete, thorough, and truly objective analysis of the game you just played. Things are open to interpretation, and sometimes a "bad" move by your friend would have been a perfectly good move if you'd been in lock step with him, or vice versa.

Obviously in some cases it will be unquestionably clear who is at "fault." But typically it is not. I am suggesting you interpret the imprecise and incomplete information in a way that is as intensely critical of yourself as possible, because I believe it yields the most benefit for yourself.

I watch the replays of my games where something went really wrong, especially if I felt I did not perform as well as I could have. I can make productive self-analysis - my ego does not prevent this and lying to myself would not make this process any easier.
 

dan2026

Member
Goddamn it, third loss of the day and moved from division II to III.

Was playing my freaking hardest as Caitlyn and doing really well, but we lost due to a Jax player who thought it was funny to die a lot, call us noobs and then claim it was his first time playing Jax.

I think I am done with LoL for a while.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Implicit in my last post was that you don't know you did your job. Humans are very poor at self analysis, and I don't trust you (or me) to actually have a complete, thorough, and truly objective analysis of the game you just played. Things are open to interpretation, and sometimes a "bad" move by your friend would have been a perfectly good move if you'd been in lock step with him, or vice versa.

Obviously in some cases it will be unquestionably clear who is at "fault." But typically it is not. I am suggesting you interpret the imprecise and incomplete information in a way that is as intensely critical of yourself as possible, because I believe it yields the most benefit for yourself.

You've returned!!!!!
 

zkylon

zkylewd
I'm thinking of buying Jarvan after I'm bored with Pantheon. He seems cool. Panth is actually pretty fun and I think is my first really offensive top laner, and it's really changing my views of that lane (even tho for some reason I'm always playing pushed top), so I want more top laners.

New ADC can't come soon enough, I've just had it with Caitlyn, whoever's responsible for suggesting her will pay :mad:

Also I gotta try Scarra's machete on Anivia, seriously my CS with her is so bad...

played my first game and got massacred.

Will the entry level be so steep? welp
Yup, I got lucky to been taught a bit by some friends and it still took me some time (I had 0 MOBA experience), so I imagine it'll be a lot to swallow if you're going at it alone.
 

Boken

Banned
I thought in ranked the fuckery would stop... smh... I was wrong. (Lee sin support with nid top vs garen)
lee sin support is one of those theoretically possible supports... but whats wrong with nid top v garen? Its perfectly fine actually
played my first game and got massacred.

Will the entry level be so steep? welp

Did you just join LoL? I recommend tutorial then bot games until level 7-8

Also I gotta try Scarra's machete on Anivia, seriously my CS with her is so bad...

AD runes =p
 

zkylon

zkylewd
AD runes =p
Yeah I should try those too. I need more rune pages...

??? It doesn't add any damage to minions.

Froggen uses AD reds though.
Oh then Scarra must really love the Spirit of the Spectral Wraith.

---

Maybe I should just take two points off Blast and put it on Butcher. So basically it's 0.5 AP per level instead of 1 AP, traded for 4 more damage against minions. I'm already running two points into Brute Force too, so that may be enough.
 

Zerokku

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?
While still leveling are you usually paired with/against people your level? Just finished a game where I was the only person in the teens (15), everyone else was 20-22.
 
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