Support NeoGAF

[garath]

Guys, I can't play till tomorrow but when I do, I have one more placement match. I'm 6-3 right now. This last game is the difference between a 70% win rate and a 60% win rate. It has to be 2 divisions at stake.

I should keep dodging until I get Vi jungle. I'm 4 for 4 with her in ranked.

I like the new division/tier thing, it'll take a lot of the pressure off seeing the little number go up and down by 11+- but these placement matches are stressful. It's a lot easier to start in a good place than climb up there.

 

[Schmattakopf]

I max starfall first. I also rush philo

You've made a grave mistake admitting that here.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Guys, I can't play till tomorrow but when I do, I have one more placement match. I'm 6-3 right now. This last game is the difference between a 70% win rate and a 60% win rate. It has to be 2 divisions at stake.

I should keep dodging until I get Vi jungle. I'm 4 for 4 with her in ranked.

I like the new division/tier thing, it'll take a lot of the pressure off seeing the little number go up and down by 11+- but these placement matches are stressful. It's a lot easier to start in a good place than climb up there.

if you end 6/4, you'll probably be in bronze. That;s what happened to me. 7/3 and you'll get silver.

 

[garath]

if you end 6/4, you'll probably be in bronze. That;s what happened to me. 7/3 and you'll get silver.

Did you have an elo from last season?

 

[SenorArdilla]

You've made a grave mistake admitting that here.

Taking CS from the carry?

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Did you have an elo from last season?

yes, I had only done my placement matches though and had 1147 elo (3 elo from silver -_-) and that was bronze.

 

[scy]

I max starfall first. I also rush philo

Your poor ADC ;__;

Edit: And not just from taking the cs. Just the fact that this means constantly pushing the lane to tower.

 

[garath]

yes, I had only done my placement matches though and had 1147 elo (3 elo from silver -_-) and that was bronze.

Ah, ok. My last season elo was around 1290. They use that for the basis of the placement matches. I think I'm safely in silver win or lose but I could be wrong! I think there was a slim possibility I'd hit gold if it was a clean sweep, but that wasn't in the cards.

 

[bgbball31]

Went to sleep after posting, so I will try to answer the questions. I was using J4, since he was on free week. I'm guessing that was a poor idea now given his lack of sustain. The enemy was using Noc and knew what he was doing, making it a bad night for my team and I (thankfully, my team was cool and no one raged, I told them in lobby it was my first time jungling and they told me to go for it.)

I think warding is one of my biggest problems. After my first time, I should back and then what should I do? Upgrade machete to Madrids and work towards Wriggles, then buy some wards? And then where should I place wards? In the game, top didn't ward at all, and I think bottom warded once in the river brush (I was on blue.) Should I ward their top tribrush, river, their red buff, or is it all situational?

Also, all junglers should gank at certain level, right? Fiddle gets CC early with a fear, slow and a silence, so I'm guessing he should be better at pre-6 ganking than some others. So when should I look to gank with some common junglers? Or is that just something that is situational as well?

 

[Xisiqomelir]

You've made a grave mistake admitting that here.

Nope, I'm in good company.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3229181 etc etc

Your poor ADC ;__;

Edit: And not just from taking the cs. Just the fact that this means constantly pushing the lane to tower.

Starfall is for killing pre-6, not for farming.

 

[scy]

I'd like to note he mentions starting, not maxing, Starfall first. Starfall doesn't get that much in power per rank (+25 Damage for +15 Mana cost per point). QWWE (or QWEW/QEWW) isn't that rare of a start.

It's also about using it while trying to minimize damage to waves (aka, Starfall/AA harass outside minion wave range); when you do push too hard, you push even harder to reset the lane. I wouldn't expect sub-30s (which is what I'm assuming is the case if you're just trying out jungling, pardon the assumption I suppose) to react properly to that. Hell, I wouldn't expect Gold or Plat level to react properly to that either. Not to mention what incidental damage in lane does to their ability to cs at low levels (granted, low-levels so "what is cs?" happens too).

Let's take a step back here though. You mentioned being gold starved as a jungler as being a con but like to support. I say that you should be used to being gold starved since supports tend to have less gold than junglers. Your response is maxing Starfall first, which says to me that you're using it a lot in lane if that's somehow dealing with your gold starved nature. I guess you meant "we're getting tons of kills here" from maxing it and not that you were getting cs with it.

 

[garath]

Went to sleep after posting, so I will try to answer the questions. I was using J4, since he was on free week. I'm guessing that was a poor idea now given his lack of sustain. The enemy was using Noc and knew what he was doing, making it a bad night for my team and I (thankfully, my team was cool and no one raged, I told them in lobby it was my first time jungling and they told me to go for it.)

I think warding is one of my biggest problems. After my first time, I should back and then what should I do? Upgrade machete to Madrids and work towards Wriggles, then buy some wards? And then where should I place wards? In the game, top didn't ward at all, and I think bottom warded once in the river brush (I was on blue.) Should I ward their top tribrush, river, their red buff, or is it all situational?

Also, all junglers should gank at certain level, right? Fiddle gets CC early with a fear, slow and a silence, so I'm guessing he should be better at pre-6 ganking than some others. So when should I look to gank with some common junglers? Or is that just something that is situational as well?

Jarvan is a great jungler. He can level 2 or 3 gank with his E->Q combo. If you land the combo, the opponent is knocked up and you and the laner get a chance to get the early kill. Works best with a strong level 2 laner or one with additional CC.

Each jungler has slight differences but in general what I do is: wolves->blue->red->wraiths->golems->back (buy boots, couple more health pots and maybe a ward). Wolves (smite big one)->gank perhaps->wraiths->gank perhaps->golems->back (buy spirit stone or madreds). From there it's a combination of ganking and farming. Be efficient.

Warding can go two ways - ward to protect a laner when they aren't warding themselves or ward in the enemy jungle so you get vision where they are going. Ward next to their wraiths, red buff or blue buff. Worst case, just ward to help your laners. Can't go wrong with that.

Nope, I'm in good company.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3229181 etc etc



Starfall is for killing pre-6, not for farming.

Hey, if it works it works. Kinda like maxing Q on Sona. You do it for the kills. Almost makes me want to try Soraka again....... almost.

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Starfall is for killing pre-6, not for farming.

It's funny how few people know that early on, Starfall does more sustained damage than ANYTHING IN THE GAME.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Let's take a step back here though. You mentioned being gold starved as a jungler as being a con but like to support. I say that you should be used to being gold starved since supports tend to have less gold than junglers. Your response is maxing Starfall first, which says to me that you're using it a lot in lane if that's somehow dealing with your gold starved nature. I guess you meant "we're getting tons of kills here" from maxing it and not that you were getting cs with it.

First kill is a 100g bonus. That's a decent clip along to philo/kage and then I'm just buying wards and slowly building things like Solari and Rylai's so there's not cash pressure.

Compared to Sejuani and having to buy ruinously expensive crap like Warmog's and RB and Shurelya's off Junglemoney it's like night and day.

It's funny how few people know that early on, Starfall does more sustained damage than ANYTHING IN THE GAME.

kekeke

 

[scy]

It's funny how few people know that early on, Starfall does more sustained damage than ANYTHING IN THE GAME.

Better nerf Soraka.

60 AoE damage that very quickly becomes true damage (4 casts, typically) on a 2.5s cooldown. It's fairly mana efficient too. The issue with it is overly pushing the lane but you can play far away from the minion line to deal with it or just kind of expect it and be ready to reset the lane. Or just get an early kill and become lane dominant.

This is one of the reasons why my normal response to "Soraka is boring in lane" is that people are playing her as a heal bot. She has a good early game pressure and sustain naturally forces trades to be in their favor. Playing her as "I banana from bush" is forcing her passive, not that Soraka herself is passive.

Compared to Sejuani and having to buy ruinously expensive crap like Warmog's and RB and Shurelya's off Junglemoney it's like night and day.

To be fair, it's also Sejuani.

 

[y2dvd]

Yeah, screw Jarvan. I usually ban him along with Xin now.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Yeah, screw Jarvan. I usually ban him along with Xin now.

Jerman 4 am stronk.

 

[Diprosalic]

wow this patch omgomgomgogomg it's nothing

no aram, no karma, no free draven, no new champ, no interesting buffs, nothing.

 

[scy]

Did people forget it was just the patch from last week that got delayed? ;_;

 

[dimb]

I was really excited about this since I love her design, but the final conclusion after 3 customs is: My god jungling is just a whole bundle of bullshit.

-Camp timers
-Wandering every lane
-Lurking for ganks
-Cherishing every last bit of gold

Compared to the joys of warding and ruining the opposing carry's day as Soraka, or even just having fun as Renekton, it's totally unappealing to me.

i got that wanderlust.

Once you get a feel for the role the camp timers just sort of come to you.

 

[scy]

Or you play mid lane and know when you can go steal jungle farm.

 

[dimb]

To be fair, it's also Sejuani.

well i'm offended. just build not dumb stuff on her. I am less into building early warmog's on her right now. spirit of the ancient golem if they are cc heavy, randuin's if they have auto-attackers. otherwise sunfire. then grab liandry's second and be the boss.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

What's the deal with Swain these days? Seen a few people start to play him again. Seems to shit all over his lane opponents.

 

[Schmattakopf]

Nope, I'm in good company.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/Xisiqomelir/kirbycake1_zps8e39579f.png

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/Xisiqomelir/kirbycake2_zps5da4f098.png

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3229181 etc etc

Quick search says he mostly does solo lane. You probably don't want to do that in a duo lane, but it doesn't really matter. Do what works at low levels.

Let's take a step back here though. You mentioned being gold starved as a jungler as being a con but like to support. I say that you should be used to being gold starved since supports tend to have less gold than junglers. Your response is maxing Starfall first, which says to me that you're using it a lot in lane if that's somehow dealing with your gold starved nature. I guess you meant "we're getting tons of kills here" from maxing it and not that you were getting cs with it.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't feel gold-starved as support (and I don't

Spoiler

try to

take CS or kills either). Support items cost less, and they're not all that necessary; you don't save up for things, you just buy wards.

 

[zkylon]

Guys, unfortunately it is with great disappointment that I must report that the change to walking and laughing at the same time has not made it into this patch.

No Lux spamming today (well I still will, but it won't be as fun)

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[garath]

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't feel gold-starved as support (and I don't

Spoiler

try to

take CS or kills either). Support items cost less, and they're not all that necessary; you don't save up for things, you just buy wards.

Yeah, I made a post a couple days ago where I made observations about the gp10s compared to jungling. A support will often have the same gold as a jungler just because of the gp10s. Support passive gold is really good this season.

 

[scy]

well i'm offended. just build not dumb stuff on her. I am less into building early warmog's on her right now. spirit of the ancient golem if they are cc heavy, randuin's if they have auto-attackers. otherwise sunfire. then grab liandry's second and be the boss.

It was more that Sejuani needs the items to make up for her lack of tank stats compared to the current batch of FotM Junglers who have a lot of free power.

Only like 23% of that post was an lol Sejuani post.

Spoiler

No, you're right, I should have actually said something worthwhile and substantial there instead of just a "It's Sejuani" comment

What's the deal with Swain these days? Seen a few people start to play him again. Seems to shit all over his lane opponents.

Swain's big problem is he's not super amazing out of lane. That said, he's absurdly sturdy for an AP and there's a new rise of double AP comps so, hey, maybe there's something else there.

I agree with the rest of your post, but I don't feel gold-starved as support (and I don't

Spoiler

try to

take CS or kills either). Support items cost less, and they're not all that necessary; you don't save up for things, you just buy wards.

It's around the same net gold gained, which was more what I was focused on. But, you're right, the support goal items are a bit cheaper (and/or you feel more relevant with fewer items compared to some Junglers) so it's not as bad.

 

[Moments hunter]

Is Swain ulti going on when you activate Zhonya Hourglass?

 

[scy]

Is Swain ulti going on when you activate Zhonya Hourglass?

All parts of it should persist: The damage, healing, and cost.

 

[FallingEdge]

All parts of it should persist: The damage, healing, and cost.

I don't think that is the case anymore. Pretty sure that it no longer works.

 

[garath]

Man, I think I'm going to have to buy the horse. He's so good in the jungle.

 

[Blizzard]

You all need to get on my level: Using Anivia ult, then hourglass so they suffer all that frosty damage while you're invincible!

Spoiler

Do not do this.

Man, I think I'm going to have to buy the horse. He's so good in the jungle.

I thought I just heard he was getting nerfed heavily in the next patch. He may still be good even after the nerf, I have no idea. I got stomped by one recently.

 

[dimb]

It was more that Sejuani needs the items to make up for her lack of tank stats compared to the current batch of FotM Junglers who have a lot of free power.

Jarvan IV free stats gutted and Locket base stats nerfed. People can't run from one free stat tank to another forever.

 

[garath]

I thought I just heard he was getting nerfed heavily in the next patch. He may still be good even after the nerf, I have no idea. I got stomped by one recently.

Oh yeah. Forgot about the upcoming nerfs. Guess I'll see how he plays out before I drop 6300ip. I'd buy him in rp if he went on sale though.

 

[mr. puppy]

wow zac is boring. his Q&W are really unoriginal......and E&R are alright though.

 

[Blitzzz]

Ah, ok. My last season elo was around 1290. They use that for the basis of the placement matches. I think I'm safely in silver win or lose but I could be wrong! I think there was a slim possibility I'd hit gold if it was a clean sweep, but that wasn't in the cards.

I was 1250 last season (hit 30 and rushed placements before season ended) and went 4-6 just now in s3. Got bronze 1. I'm pretty sure you will end up in silver

 

[garath]

I was 1250 last season (hit 30 and rushed placements before season ended) and went 4-6 just now in s3. Got bronze 1. I'm pretty sure you will end up in silver

Ahh, about what I figured.

Looks to me like they take your last season elo and that's your baseline. Go 5-5 and you'll be right where you were. 4-6 or lower and it'll go down, 6-4 and greater it'll go up. Give or take.

Starts at 1200 if you didn't play last season.

I've lolking'd a few of the people I've played placements with and against and they're ending up anywhere from silver V to Gold IV.

Seems about where I'm at.

 

[dimb]

People get kind of upset when you try to go Quinn top.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Teemo was a bit nasty at the start, but got a gank and got first blood and snowballed pretty hard. Got a nice triple at Baron pit.

Renekton so stronk.

 

[Ferga]

Yeah, screw Jarvan. I usually ban him along with Xin now.

Every single ban in gold league so far for me is junglers+blitzcrank. However, you can't ban them all heh.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Our mid Sona just destroyed it 20/1/4

 

[zkylon]

just played on 290 ping.

it wasn't enjoyable

fuck my isp

 

[PROGRAM_IX]

Our mid Sona just destroyed it 20/1/4

Damn. Been wanting to play her more, support especially, since I got the Arcade Sona skin at PAX. But I don't wanna make that jump - I'm pretty competent with Leona, Thresh, Fiddlesticks, etc. Might try it tonight if my team is on.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

just played on 290 ping.

it wasn't enjoyable

fuck my isp

Feel my pain!

Spoiler

 

[kayos90]

Feel my pain!

Spoiler

Is this Gamma?

 

[Ferga]

Fuuuuuuuuu

 

[bgbball31]

For as bad as I think I am, my normals MMR must not be too bad, I keep getting placed with Silver I and Silver II players, where I keep getting destroyed.

 

[Dobkeratops]

"premade bot" have to be the most dreaded words in this game

feeders, ragequitters and flamers everywhere today god damn

 

[Kane Zakharov]

Is this Gamma?

Yes.

 

[Sr Kitsune]

just played on 290 ping.

it wasn't enjoyable

fuck my isp

That's the ping of one of my friends. As someone who plays with an average of 45 of ping, I don't know how he actually play with that, it feels so weird to play with 150 of ping.

Spoiler

Btw, I actually scrolled 10,000 post in a conversation with a few friends in facebook to get that image... I'm never going to do that again, so much spam, and Chrome was in the edge of collapsing... I can't believe I wasted 20 minutes digging for that pic. =(

(He actually plays with an average of 400. But he has some weirds spikes from time to time. I told him to change to my ISP, I live like 150 meters(164 yards) away from him. But he can't change from ISP for some reason just yet)