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[Wolf Akela]

What's a rule of thumb to determine your normal Elo? I'm managing only +30 W/L in my normals and was surprised to like half of the players in my last 3 games being plats and diamonds. This doesn't seem right? I expected lower gold at best. They were pulling some shenanigans, like our Diamond Ryze going getting homeguard TP fairly early and actually managed to secure a few kills that way. I checked some challengers in our region and most of them were +(100-150) in their ranked games.

 

[dimb]

What's a rule of thumb to determine your normal Elo?

I think you can see it if you play a normal game and run yourself through kassad.in. Maybe.
http://quickfind.kassad.in/

 

[Ken]

lewd

 

[Wolf Akela]

I think you can see it if you play a normal game and run yourself through kassad.in. Maybe.
http://quickfind.kassad.in/

Yeah, nothing there. Surprisingly my country isn't there even though other Garena regions are.

 

[Leezard]

What's a rule of thumb to determine your normal Elo? I'm managing only +30 W/L in my normals and was surprised to like half of the players in my last 3 games being plats and diamonds. This doesn't seem right? I expected lower gold at best. They were pulling some shenanigans, like our Diamond Ryze going getting homeguard TP fairly early and actually managed to secure a few kills that way. I checked some challengers in our region and most of them were +(100-150) in their ranked games.

Remember that even though someone might have high ranked elo, they might not have played very many normals.
edit: or they might have gotten better while playing ranked.

 

[IsayFever]

Cleaned my mouse, highlight of the day thus far

 

[Terbinator]

Am i really behind the times taking armour pen runes, GAF? My friend is griefing me here.

 

[dimb]

Am i really behind the times taking armour pen runes, GAF? My friend is griefing me here.

you are.

 

[garath]

Am i really behind the times taking armour pen runes, GAF? My friend is griefing me here.

Kinda. They're still stronger over time but runes are about the early game anyways and flat AD is strong.

 

[Azulsky]

Taking full arpen on AD's for ARAM then starting double Dorans is still legit.

 

[Cathcart]

what are the best supports for solo queue for those games where you team is terrible. The biggest issue with the role is that if your team sucks its hard to do much. I find Karma at least has good engage and disengage skills that definately help more than other supports in those games. And if you team REALLY sucks you can start building AP and might be able to turn it around if you can hold off long enough.

Support Rengar.

 

[Sr Kitsune]

Twitch is fun.

I'll add him to my roster. (ADC: Cait, MF, Twitch)

 

[Einbroch]

Who should I buy?

I'm leaning Zyra, Jayce, or Dunkmaster D.

 

[Terbinator]

you are.

Kinda. They're still stronger over time but runes are about the early game anyways and flat AD is strong.

It's specifically in regards to Zed. He says he scaled better with AD, which he does (as well as his W) but i like knowing that i've effectively removed a cloth armour from their champ if they've started with one, even better if not.

This is all because i build IE on Zed, which apparently i'm not allowed to as it makes more sense to go Cleaver and Wsiper. Cleaver i don't really like, Whisper maybe - but only if they're stacking armour - apparently i'm wrong in thinkign the latter too, and whisper is always viable, specifically in place of IE.

Apparently i'm completely wrong because his Zed win rate is better than me and he's Gold 3.

 

[scy]

This is all because i build IE on Zed, which apparently i'm not allowed to as it makes more sense to go Cleaver and Wsiper. Cleaver i don't really like, Whisper maybe - but only if they're stacking armour - apparently i'm wrong in thinkign the latter too, and whisper is always viable, specifically in place of IE.

IE is pretty bad on Zed. You don't really scale with Crit% (as it's a stat that scales with attacks over time). Cleaver lets your ult mark explode on a target with their Armor fully shredded which is why it's grabbed. LW is almost always viable just due to people getting close to ~100-ish Armor without focusing on Armor.

Blade of the Ruined King (for the active since it'll double use, essentially, with your ult) + Cleaver + Whisper is the most generic of Zed builds.

 

[Pandaman]

the crit chance and passive on IE is much less useful on Zed, since he's more of a caster than an auto attacker.

that IE crit chance/bonus damage is only useful on your auto attacks, meanwhile cleaver and last whisper apply to all physical damage. so basically you're getting a 25% chance to have a strong crit on the few auto's you have in exchange for just flat out having more damage on everything if you had gone for LW. Cleaver's probably better for Zed though, you get to build a brutalizer after all.

 

[garath]

It's specifically in regards to Zed. He says he scaled better with AD, which he does (as well as his W) but i like knowing that i've effectively removed a cloth armour from their champ if they've started with one, even better if not.

This is all because i build IE on Zed, which apparently i'm not allowed to as it makes more sense to go Cleaver and Wsiper. Cleaver i don't really like, Whisper maybe - but only if they're stacking armour - apparently i'm wrong in thinkign the latter too, and whisper is always viable, specifically in place of IE.

Apparently i'm completely wrong because his Zed win rate is better than me and he's Gold 3.

Well a little math helps clear it up.

Assuming 30 armor on the opponent and a cloth armor start:

15 armor pen means you are doing 77% of your base damage.

A level 1 Q will do (75)(.77) = 58 damage
A level 1 E will do (60)(.77) = 46.2

15 AD and no armor pen means you are doing 69% of your base damage

A level 1 Q will do (75+15)(.69) = 62.1
A level 1 E will do (60+(15*.8))(.69) = 49.68

This is disregarding the additional bonus ad from leveling W which will only improve the flat AD start.

Flat AD better even with a cloth armor start.

 

[Terbinator]

Hmm, okay. I guess i've never felt it work against me and going for IE.

The IE issue aside, is my reasoning in regards to armour pen completely off, or at least, un-competitive?

Edit: In regards to the above post, why is armour pen even at the level it is now then if there is an obviously better rune setup for AD?

 

[scy]

The IE issue aside, is my reasoning in regards to armour pen completely off, or at least, un-competitive?

Pretty much completely off. Off-hand, the only time ArPen gives you a better start than flat AD is if they start with no Armor. Almost any amount of starting Armor will balance out if not benefit flat AD more.

Even in the event it didn't, if you were going ArPen runes, your goal is to stack more ArPen and raw AD. You definitely would not get an IE in that situation.

Edit: In regards to the above post, why is armour pen even at the level it is now then if there is an obviously better rune setup for AD?

Because ArPen gains in value as AD increases and Armor lags behind (and/or you get %Reduction). This is just less relevant, generally speaking, since runes are used to bolster an early game (e.g., pre-first item) situation rather than any other one.

 

[garath]

Hmm, okay. I guess i've never felt it work against me and going for IE.

The IE issue aside, is my reasoning in regards to armour pen completely off, or at least, un-competitive?

Edit: In regards to the above post, why is armour pen even at the level it is now then if there is an obviously better rune setup for AD?

Armor pen will scale better than the 15 AD. But it's generally held that you rune for the early game as opposed to the late game. Those early advantages can tip the scale in a close matchup.

 

[Terbinator]

Bugger. I best go and warm this up:

How have i survived so long behind the times

 

[garath]

Bugger. I best go and warm this up:

How have i survived so long behind the times

To be fair, it's pretty small differences.

 

[Hero]

Wait so ArPen sucks now? Should I just go with AD runes/quints?

 

[Einbroch]

I like a mix of AD/Life Steal Quints, myself. 2 LS/1 AD or 3 LS, depending on who I'm playing.

 

[scy]

For what it's worth, there's other things to consider. For instance, a Doran's Blade + Masteries will still get you around +14 AD, -8% Armor, -5 Armor. So 29 AD, -8% Armor, -5 Armor vs 14 AD, -8% Armor, -24 Armor is a bit more in favor of the latter @ 45 Armor (~37 v ~17 Armor or 73% v 85% damage taken) once you start dealing >125 damage.

For the most part, flat AD (or AD + 2x/3x Lifesteal Quints, depending) is just generally more useful. There's certain circumstances where ArPen is better (vs low Armor starts, aiming for a later power spike, bad scaling/high base values) but it's a lot more of a case-by-case basis.

 

[Edwardo]

I like a mix of AD/Life Steal Quints, myself. 2 LS/1 AD or 3 LS, depending on who I'm playing.

Pretty much the same here, I run 3 lifesteal quints and ad reds.

 

[garath]

Pretty much the same here, I run 3 lifesteal quints and ad reds.

I do that for ADC, but for AD casters like Zed and Kha'zix I just run flat AD. It works pretty well.

 

[Edwardo]

I do that for ADC, but for AD casters like Zed and Kha'zix I just run flat AD. It works pretty well.

Ya right now I use that page for all ad champs. I have a third page that's unfilled, just dont know what I want to do with it. My second page is ap quints and magic pen reds. I was thinking either movespeed for jungling or gold per 10 for support.

 

[dimb]

heh.

 

[Terbinator]

heh.

Sigh

 

[garath]

With the limited pool of 'marksmen' there will always be one or two stronger than the rest. It will be a never ending cycle of riot nerfing and buffing to adjust. It just happens to be vaynes turn again.

 

[dimb]

There are like sixteen different AD carries you could play that are viable. It's anything but limited. Right now Vayne is in like 40% of games.

 

[Terbinator]

I'm on 77LP and i'm starting to worry. Hopefully i'll be in promos soon and getting out of the 7 hells that is Bronze.

Why did i ever take that month hiatus ;_;

 

[PhillipCostigan]

They're nerfing the cooldown on Vayne's ult.

From flat 70 seconds to 100/85/70.

http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/25204-pbe-patch-for-7-24-more-vayne-changes

 

[Terbinator]

They're nerfing the cooldown on Vayne's ult.

From flat 70 seconds to 100/85/70.

http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/25204-pbe-patch-for-7-24-more-vayne-changes

Jesus. 30 seconds extra.

 

[drawkcaB]

Wait so ArPen sucks now? Should I just go with AD runes/quints?

Depends on the champ, what you're trying to accomplish, and prospective builds. As you can see with Garath's math the early game difference is small. Ultimately AD runes are preferable because it'll improve last hitting.

Putting Vayne's condemn back to 550 and ultimate CD increase are pretty innocuous nerfs.

 

[IsayFever]

The south shall rise again

 

[dimb]

Jesus. 30 seconds extra.

plz, it's still not as long as spray and pray.

 

[Einbroch]

The nerf on Lucian is annoying. If you want to go AP for a gimmick build (ARAM/Dominion/silly 5s game with friends), you should be able to.

This tightening of builds on champions is stupid and not fun.

 

[dimb]

The nerf on Lucian is annoying. If you want to go AP for a gimmick build (ARAM/Dominion/silly 5s game with friends), you should be able to.

This tightening of builds on champions is stupid and not fun.

you know what else is not fun? people on your team in regular games going ap on lucian. it would not have been viable even as a gimmick tbh.

 

[Sr Kitsune]

you know what else is not fun? people on your team in regular games going ap on lucian. it would not have been viable even as a gimmick tbh.

But, Riot said they would tweak champions for the different game modes. They could keep the AP on Lucian, but have it tuned for SR.

(That ult in ARAM would be fun)

 

[Burt]

Is IE/PD the best thing to rush on Twitch in most circumstances? Or should I be rushing BOTRK for a damage/AS mix? I just played him for the first time in an ARAM today and went IE/PD, but it seems like his passive and expunge would work better with AS to get stacks on and I could just forgo crit till later in the game.

 

[dimb]

Is IE/PD the best thing to rush on Twitch in most circumstances? Or should I be rushing BOTRK for a damage/AS mix? I just played him for the first time in an ARAM today and went IE/PD, but it seems like his passive and expunge would work better with AS to get stacks on and I could just forgo crit till later in the game.

I like early Bloodthirster best on Twitch. Iedge is also okay, depends on what you are expecting mid game. Some people like Botrk on him, but I'm not super hot on it. Expunge scales off your attack damage. It's not all about just the number of stacks.

 

[Q8D3vil]

Time to ban tryndamere to stop retards from taking him.

 

[DeadNames]

I hate teammates who go to your called lane even though you called it first.

Why do people have to be such tools?

 

[Terbinator]

Oh well, there goes my promotion run in true LoL style. Teamfight at inhib and our Twitch walks back tot he shop. Why????

Every game there is a grade-A tool without fail. Every game.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

I hate teammates who go to your called lane even though you called it first.

Why do people have to be such tools?

Free to play brings then all out I'm afraid.

On a brighter note I bought nami and she is the nuts. Had a great game with her. My advice was getting a bit outclassed by their Varus and blitz but still managed to save Ashe a number of times. Then in team fights bubble plus tidal wave can totally turn the battle you way. Really good support.

With her karma, Janna and lulu I'm pretty set with who il use as support I think.

 

[DeadNames]

Is Vi viable (heh) top lane? I watched a youtube video of her and that ulty is on par with Pantheon's in terms of tower diving.

 

[Wolf Akela]

Nerf to Vayne's ult isn't too bad. It's always up beforw I need it.

 

[dimb]

Is Vi viable (heh) top lane? I watched a youtube video of her and that ulty is on par with Pantheon's in terms of tower diving.

What does it mean to be viable? Can you do it and win? Sure. Is it a good role for her? Not really. I wouldn't exactly say her ability to dive turrets is all that amazing either.