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[dimb]

the range is too isolated and you are coming in to them with a predefined explanation for the numbers. all it could mean is that shen is the most desirable pick, and winds up as a common first pick that people can only deal with by utilizing another overpowered champion.

to me shen and zac are both problem champions so i don't really understand the yield or outcome. do you think zac is a bad pick against top laners that are not shen?

 

[PhillipCostigan]

They might as well delete Rengar at this point. I'd rather they delete him than see one of my favourite champions destroyed like that.

There are no words to describe how much I hate those changes.

 

[Boken]

the range is too isolated and you are coming in to them with a predefined explanation for the numbers. all it could mean is that shen is the most desirable pick, and winds up as a common first pick that people can only deal with by utilizing another overpowered champion.

to me shen and zac are both problem champions so i don't really understand the yield or outcome. do you think zac is a bad pick against top laners that are not shen?

That doesn't explain zac bans into shen bans or zac bans into shen picks.

Of course not @ zac being a bad pick against other top laners. I just think he's the best "herbivore" type that beats other herbivores. In terms of popularity, I think shens popularity makes zac more popular.

If any nerfs should happen to him I think it should be his effectiveness against "herbivores". (lower % hp damage, increase hp cost slightly, make the heal blobs easier to step on, or make them appear further away from him.)

They might as well delete Rengar at this point. I'd rather they delete him than see one of my favourite champions destroyed like that.

There are no words to describe how much I hate those changes.

What do you like about rango? Is it because he's a stealthy assassin cat that sows massive burst?

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Yeah, pretty much. I like the element of surprise about him. He's "The Pridestalker", the stealth on ult was essential to that feeling, that you were actually stalking your prey. That's what Rengar should be, not a cat with go faster stripes.

His E being a skillshot is the one change I actually like. It rewards skillful play and has the increased range. Good change.

His W change is awful. It limits him so much. AP top laners are so prevalent now that he's got no defense against them unless he rushes MR tank items, in which case why would you ever play Rengar? Not to mention how useless he'll be in fights now because he'll just get blown up. Battle Roar's range is only 500, shorter than the range of most AD carries. Now that he has little to no good way of getting on that carry in a team fight because he can be seen from miles away and requires a bush to gap close, he probably won't even reduce the AD of his highest priority target.

And his ult... why does it need to consume ferocity stacks on cast? That means he has to cast his ult, losing all his ferocity stacks and wait for them to build up again before he can use an empowered ability. That means he gets off one less empowered Q now than he does on live, a significant nerf to his damage potential.

Like, none of that appeals to me as a Rengar player. None of these changes are what Rengar should be about.

Yes Thrill of the Hunt lasts much longer, but it doesn't matter. It's like a far worse Singed ult that only gives movement speed and the reveal. Why would I ever want that, especially on Rengar?

 

[Mister Wilhelm]

Those Rengar changes make no sense at all.

It's like they're trying to change him from being one of the funnest top laners in the game to a half-ass carry jungler.

Personally, I think he only needs a slight buff to his jungling but his top lane is fine. I see him in high elo games every day doing well.

 

[Leezard]

While I can't talk about most of the changes, Rengar does not need a bush to gap close, he can still leap out of the ult.
"Rengar's first basic attack while in Thrill of the Hunt will cause him to leap at his target - Rengar retains the Movement Speed increase from Thrill of the Hunt for 3 seconds after leaping."

 

[PhillipCostigan]

While I can't talk about most of the changes, Rengar does not need a bush to gap close, he can still leap out of the ult.
"Rengar's first basic attack while in Thrill of the Hunt will cause him to leap at his target - Rengar retains the Movement Speed increase from Thrill of the Hunt for 3 seconds after leaping."

Yes, he gets one leap. That's the same as on live. ADC arcane shifts, quickdraws, Flashes, Valkyries, anything else, Rengar is screwed. Except now he doesn't have the burst to kill them before they can.

Not to mention he's now far more susceptible to cc before he even gets there because he has no stealth and just runs at you. It's mindless. He runs at you and he gets one leap, that's it. On live, when you're stealthed, you have to use your stealth and its lower duration to size up who you're jumping on, maybe wait for them to split from their team for a second, then you pounce. That is far cooler, and just way better than this awful iteration which leaves him at the mercy of anything with some sort of cc ability or any gap creator.

 

[Leezard]

His role definitely changes a bit. Now, he will be able to split push without teleport and join the fight with the ult rather than ulting close to the fight and just bumrush. I suppose you will need to flank rather than run from the front as well. About the escapes, I think that will depend on how much speed you keep after ulting. In the worst case Rengar will be forced to use an empowered E, I guess, since it appears impossible to triple Q.

 

[Einbroch]

Terrible, fucking terrible. Rengar was my fun top champion. The stealth was core and could be used to great benefit. Also, Bola was a nice poke or could be used to creep against someone like Teemo. Now it will be much harder.

Riot, the hell are you doing? I seriously wonder why they do the things they do. Elise's rappel nerf made no sense the way they did it. Skarner changes seem boring. Now this.

Ugh. Instead of making champions more fun to play they just make them more and more homogenized and boring.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

His role definitely changes a bit. Now, he will be able to split push without teleport and join the fight with the ult rather than ulting close to the fight and just bumrush. I suppose you will need to flank rather than run from the front as well. About the escapes, I think that will depend on how much speed you keep after ulting. In the worst case Rengar will be forced to use an empowered E, I guess, since it appears impossible to triple Q.

I don't mean to be condescending or anything, but if that's the case why wouldn't I just play Quinn? She fills that role far better. Her ult gives her insane mobility (more than like more than Rengar), massive attack speed a targeted gap closer that's not terrain based etc. etc. and she has a blind. Or Shen.

They're removing what makes Rengar feel like Rengar, while shoehorning him into a role that others are always going to be way better at. Rengar shouldn't be that way.

 

[Nev]

I feel insulted by the stealth removal and I don't even play Rengar.

What an awful move Riot.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

It's worth pointing out that these changes aren't 100% set in stone or anything.

But they are awful, and it gives me serious reservations when it comes to the people running this rework and if they should be the ones doing it. They don't seem to know what makes Rengar the champion he is and why he's fun.

I love Scarizard's Karma rework. This is seriously terrible though.

 

[Boken]

Terrible, fucking terrible. Rengar was my fun top champion. The stealth was core and could be used to great benefit. Also, Bola was a nice poke or could be used to creep against someone like Teemo. Now it will be much harder.

Riot, the hell are you doing? I seriously wonder why they do the things they do. Elise's rappel nerf made no sense the way they did it. Skarner changes seem boring. Now this.

Ugh. Instead of making champions more fun to play they just make them more and more homogenized and boring.

what do you mean by the rappel nerf made no sense? the rappel as it was made no sense before it too.

skillshot bola is quite nice actually, because it visually looks more like a skillshot (spinny weights have to be able to be blocked yo).

people who liked to play rango as a triple Q burst the shit out of a single target assassin that can barely be stopped from entering the fight are assholes
signed, squishy player.

 

[scy]

I dunno, if you expected Rengar to keep stealth and his current Q priming then I'd have to say you're fairly delusional~

Elise's rappel nerf made no sense the way they did it.

The goal of the Rappel nerf was to make it so the casting circle was an actual indicator of where it could go. Elise is still really strong, just can't gap close beyond her actual range anymore.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

I dunno, if you expected Rengar to keep stealth and his current Q priming then I'd have to say you're fairly delusional~

No, I didn't expect that. I didn't expect to keep both. The triple Q had to go, but removing the triple Q AND the stealth, and making him weaker against AP champions and replacing it with that terrible ult is definitely not what I wanted or expected.

Like, this is supposed to be a buff to Rengar while adding some counterplay to him. Overall this feels like a huge nerf. They're removing a lot of his damage potential and his element of surprise too.

What does he have going for him now? He can run really fast? :/

Scarizard is comparing him to Rammus/Hecarim in terms of his ganks/approach. If that's what they're going for, that's soooooo far off the mark of what that champion is and what he should be.

 

[Boken]

tbh i do think the changes are pretty damn weird, but your reaction is on a sky is falling kind of level

id just wait and see. theyve already scrapped one design

 

[garath]

Gotta go fast.

The only changes I like in this possible rengar update is the bola skillshot and the bonetooth necklace recipe change. Building it out of hunters machete and giving it bonus damage to monsters is perfect.

I hate the loss of stealth. And removing ferocity stacks means he cant pop his ult and do max damage. Forget the triple Q for a second. With no stacks on ult he's losing huge damage potential for USING his ult. As an assassin he wants to have that burst.

I dunno. Not really a fan.

 

[scy]

The only changes I like in this possible rengar update is the bola skillshot and the bonetooth necklace recipe change. Building it out of hunters machete and giving it bonus damage to monsters is perfect.

Unfortunately, it also lost a lot of gold value (5 + 2/Level -> 10 + 1/Level).

 

[garath]

Unfortunately, it also lost a lot of gold value (5 + 2/Level -> 10 + 1/Level).

Didn't even notice that tbh. There was rarely a reason to even buy it before. At least there's a solid reason now.

Nerfs all over the place though

 

[scy]

It was almost always bought before. It was efficient at Level 8 (21 AD for 20 AD cost) and then as efficient as a BF Sword by Level 10/11 (~.03 AD/Gold). Plus being a free stat stick, essentially, once he hit 3 stacks.

Edit: derppppppppppppp

 

[Einbroch]

The goal of the Rappel nerf was to make it so the casting circle was an actual indicator of where it could go. Elise is still really strong, just can't gap close beyond her actual range anymore.

Right, then it should have an instant cast. Right now there's a delay and it feels clunky. When you cast it, if it's in range, it should go. Whether or not they move out should be irrelevant.

If they want to reduce the range, fine, but it's awkward.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Didn't even notice that tbh. There was rarely a reason to even buy it before. At least there's a solid reason now.

Nerfs all over the place though

There were lots of reason to buy it before. A potential 41 AD for 800 gold. And at 3 stacks you got 5% cdr and 10 arm. pen. It's a good item.

New bonetooth is move speed, more move speed and the ult duration length. Also the leap range you get is reduced. It's way worse for lane Rengar, and possibly even Django Rango.

 

[garath]

It was almost always bought before. It was efficient at Level 8 (21 AD for 20 AD cost) and then as efficient as a BF Sword by Level 10/11 (~.03 AD/Gold). Plus being a free stat stick, essentially, once he hit 3 stacks.

Edit: derppppppppppppp

There were lots of reason to buy it before. A potential 41 AD for 800 gold. And at 3 stacks you got 5% cdr and 10 arm. pen. It's a good item.

New bonetooth is move speed, more move speed and the ult duration length. Also the leap range you get is reduced. It's way worse for lane Rengar, and possibly even Django Rango.

OK. Point taken. I haven't played rengar in ages. I don't see many streamers buy it but then again I don't see him picked that often either.

 

[dimb]

i actually like the changes on rengar. i want him to be a jungler who takes advantage of all the brush on the map rather than someone who camps out in the push top lane. top lane is pretty horrid about snowballing right now, and rengar is one of the worst offenders of that.

and fuck stealth movespeed is way better.

 

[Subtle]

I like Rengar top lane. It's a really unique playstyle. No idea why they're reworking him. Just give him a new skin and he'll be more popular!

 

[Kyuur]

Static Shiv rush on Ashe is glorious. Enemy Vayne went 6-0 within the first 7 minutes, shiv + volley let us keep the waves off our tower and Lulu fucked em over everytime they tried to dive with jungler.

 

[Edwardo]

Static Shiv rush on Ashe is glorious. Enemy Vayne went 6-0 within the first 7 minutes, shiv + volley let us keep the waves off our tower and Lulu fucked em over everytime they tried to dive with jungler.

Did you mean 0-6?

 

[Blizzard]

TALES OF LOW SKILL LEVEL RANKED

I kind of hesitate to play Draven since I figure if I play him enough, I'll start losing more. In season 3 I'm 11-2 with him, which is almost certainly my best win ratio for any champion with more than 10 games played in season 3.

This game, I pulled out my ultra secret smite strategy. Normally, I would miss all those big minions since last hits are hard, but NOT ANYMORE. You can see that smite gave me an extra 100 minions just for having it along, etc.

Of course, I can't actually claim credit for this, since due to some bizarre alignment of stars, people were peeling for me in solo queue. Kayle was ulting me, Taric was stunning people, and Nautilus was CC'ing people who would chase. I made poor decision sometimes but it was still great to have teammates being so nice to me.

 

[Newt]

Static Shiv rush on Ashe is glorious. Enemy Vayne went 6-0 within the first 7 minutes, shiv + volley let us keep the waves off our tower and Lulu fucked em over everytime they tried to dive with jungler.

Damn, 6 and 0. Sorry to hear that man.

 

[Newt]

TALES OF LOW SKILL LEVEL RANKED

I kind of hesitate to play Draven since I figure if I play him enough, I'll start losing more. In season 3 I'm 11-2 with him, which is almost certainly my best win ratio for any champion with more than 10 games played in season 3.

This game, I pulled out my ultra secret smite strategy. Normally, I would miss all those big minions since last hits are hard, but NOT ANYMORE. You can see that smite gave me an extra 100 minions just for having it along, etc.

Of course, I can't actually claim credit for this, since due to some bizarre alignment of stars, people were peeling for me in solo queue. Kayle was ulting me, Taric was stunning people, and Nautilus was CC'ing people who would chase. I made poor decision sometimes but it was still great to have teammates being so nice to me.

You're hurting me. So much.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

You're hurting me. So much.

To be fair you go armor pen runes on ADC =x

Also, Rengar jumping out of fucking nowhere with his ulti is one of the most hilarious and depressing things I experience in LoL. It's more funny when I have a pink ward on him and he still thinks he can sneak up on our squishies like a cute kitty.

 

[Newt]

To be fair you go armor pen runes on ADC =x

Also, Rengar jumping out of fucking nowhere with his ulti is one of the most hilarious and depressing things I experience in LoL. It's more funny when I have a pink ward on him and he still thinks he can sneak up on our squishies like a cute kitty.

The difference between armour pen and ad is very insignificant in terms of damage. Also, I have both rune pages, I just use armour pen on some champs (like MF, Draven).

 

[Kyuur]

Did you mean 0-6?

Nope, 6-0.

Lulu got caught, I tried to assist her but we both died (almost killed Vayne).
Jungler (Jarvan) does a flash flagpole, but Vayne tumbled out of the way and e him into wall, their jungler comes and he dies.
We get dived and killed by them and their jungler, our jungler comes late and suicides into them.

Came out of that game 13/3/8, and won. The best feeling.

 

[Edwardo]

Nope, 6-0.

Lulu got caught, I tried to assist her but we both died (almost killed Vayne).
Jungler (Jarvan) does a flash flagpole, but Vayne tumbled out of the way and e him into wall, their jungler comes and he dies.
We get dived and killed by them and their jungler, our jungler comes late and suicides into them.

Came out of that game 13/3/8, and won. The best feeling.

Ah I see. Yea I just got confused because you said Vayne went 6-0 even though you and Lulu were doing well. GJ on the win!

 

[forgrim]

Finally made it to silver 1, what a journey dealing with some awesome ppl and some incredibly terrible trolls. Apparently Now the hard part begins. In a weird statistics manner, my top 3 champions in rankplay are all exactly 60% win rate. (Tag: roemaf if u don't believe me)

 

[Diprosalic]

i need to win 10 games before i lose one in order to gain LP.

 

[Achtius]

Finally made it to silver 1, what a journey dealing with some awesome ppl and some incredibly terrible trolls. Apparently Now the hard part begins. In a weird statistics manner, my top 3 champions in rankplay are all exactly 60% win rate. (Tag: roemaf if u don't believe me)

*high five*

i just got there too!

 

[dimb]

i am posting here about warwick with manamune and botrk to remind myself to do it later.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

i need to win 10 games before i lose one in order to gain LP.

If you hate your rank so much and the people you play with, why don't you just start again from scratch? If you deserve to be higher than you are you have another chance.

I'm pretty sure you've said before how you've spent no money on the game, so it's not like you're losing money on it.

 

[Leezard]

I don't mean to be condescending or anything, but if that's the case why wouldn't I just play Quinn? She fills that role far better. Her ult gives her insane mobility (more than like more than Rengar), massive attack speed a targeted gap closer that's not terrain based etc. etc. and she has a blind. Or Shen.

They're removing what makes Rengar feel like Rengar, while shoehorning him into a role that others are always going to be way better at. Rengar shouldn't be that way.

Fair enough. I don't play Rengar enough to know what's "the thing" about playing him. If you want a short invisibility into slaughtering a carry, there is Talon at least.

i need to win 10 games before i lose one in order to gain LP.

If you keep winning more than you lose, your mmr will rise and you will gain LP in decent numbers again.

 

[Newt]

Wow, I had to play Kennen to realize what kinda of champ he was. He feels a little like Ezreal in lane, but in teamfights he takes close to zero brain power to play. All you do is flash, ult, and hourglass and pretty much your job is done. Fiddle takes skill because you can only lock down one person, but Kennen can just keep everyone out of combat. Super safe laning, and ultra strong teamfight.

 

[Diprosalic]

If you hate your rank so much and the people you play with, why don't you just start again from scratch? If you deserve to be higher than you are you have another chance..

eh, 1-30 takes so much time and i don't really care that much. i just like to bitch and moan. soon uni starts again and i won't care at all anymore.
i know i'm shit at this game but it's no fun if you're basically stuck. B5-B1 is horror, i don't mind bad players but trolls and afk is more than 60% in my last 50 ish games.

If you keep winning more than you lose, your mmr will rise and you will gain LP in decent numbers again.

hopefully soon, won 7 and lost 1 = back to zero.

 

[Ken]

go achtius n newt

i believe

 

[Sigismundo]

I ended up watching TSM vs C9 yesterday. Zac is an extremely good initiator (and very easy to follow up on) so I guess he is really good.

They might as well delete Rengar at this point. I'd rather they delete him than see one of my favourite champions destroyed like that.

There are no words to describe how much I hate those changes.

I actually know Scarizard outside of a League context so if you have any choice words I can pass them on next time I see him.

Spoiler

he used to hit on e-girls all the time. it was quite sad actually

 

[PhillipCostigan]

I ended up watching TSM vs C9 yesterday. Zac is an extremely good initiator (and very easy to follow up on) so I guess he is really good.

I actually know Scarizard outside of a League context so if you have any choice words I can pass them on next time I see him.

Spoiler

he used to hit on e-girls all the time. it was quite sad actually

Can you show him my summoner name and this picture and tell him it's fully stacked?

but srsly, I sent him a tweet linking him to my post explaining why I dislike the changes, so I guess he may have read my thoughts already.

 

[SteveWinwood]

what time is it in kangaroo land?

boken lets dawngate

 

[dimb]

Can you show him my summoner name and this picture and tell him it's fully stacked?

but srsly, I sent him a tweet linking him to my post explaining why I dislike the changes, so I guess he may have read my thoughts already.

any reason you don't play rengar in ranked?

 

[Achtius]

why is silver 1 / gold 5 such a dark place.

WW top and corki mid.

why

ww fed
corki let mid run wild.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

any reason you don't play rengar in ranked?

I don't play ranked. I play my one game every now and again to stop LP decay.

I also don't really play top in ranked. harder to carry. I've got one Renekton game and one Riven game in ranked in top lane. The Jax game was in the jangle.

 

[dimb]

why is silver 1 / gold 5 such a dark place.

WW top and corki mid.

why

ww fed
corki let mid run wild.

corki mid is legit. manamune into full ap build is strong. ww top is okay depending on the matchup.