in other news, here are the groups for the korean WCG qualifiers. OGN will begin their coverage on oct 14
How is najin shield compared to sword, and how is kt arrow compared to bullets. I've only seen the latter play.
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League of Legends |OT4| No Country for Old Karma
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How is najin shield compared to sword, and how is kt arrow compared to bullets. I've only seen the latter play.
I suggest we just sit in this thread indefinitely for a while, at least until season 4 starts and we can get new info into the OT
puzzle dragons is already at page 240 so it shouldnt be a big deal.
this message is mostly for KAYOS
bullets >>> arrows.
sword >> shield
but how did they manage to get two sister teams in the same group
wtf WCG
puzzle dragons is already at page 240 so it shouldnt be a big deal.
this message is mostly for KAYOS
bullets >>> arrows.
sword >> shield
but how did they manage to get two sister teams in the same group
wtf WCG
Shield are the CLG of Korea. Constantly changing their lineup and it's hurting their performance/consistency. Their best players were picked up by the sister team.
OGN did the same thing for the Summer Champions.
Mister Negative
Member
Just watched Dan Dinh's video, Jinx looks UNBELIEVABLY strong/fun. I can't wait to play her.
Just watched Dan's video. She looks fun as hell. ADC is going to be hotly contested the first couple weeks.
To comment on the earlier questions of fun. Zac was awesome fun right off but Philip was right, the novelty wore off.
Vi has always been fun to me. Even after the nerfs.
No other champ seemed as fun. Guess Lissandra might have, I never played her though.
To comment on the earlier questions of fun. Zac was awesome fun right off but Philip was right, the novelty wore off.
Vi has always been fun to me. Even after the nerfs.
No other champ seemed as fun. Guess Lissandra might have, I never played her though.
Just initial thoughts on Jinx: Her W is pretty awkward compared to how free moving she feels with her Q swaps to make the best of what range she's at + her E being able to be cast on the move. W damage is pretty silly when it lands (I reached 700-ish damage on it come late game) but it's fairly awkward to hit 1v1. The biggest surprise for it is that the trajectory is completely telegraphed. Like, your opponent can see exactly where it's going during the windup.
Her Minigun is better in pretty much all situations when you can hit with it. Which is obvious, I suppose, but like ... you really want to be at that range instead of her Rocket Launcher range. But I can't fully comment since without proper teamfight experience I never really felt forced into situations where I had to be at >600 range.
Can't comment too much on her ult without real 5v5 experience though. It fires a lot faster than I thought it would so it's pretty easy to squeeze in when fighting and it's fairly easy to land. I want to try landing it on the clutch Baron fight engage.
I hope they never change her E from the placeholder. It's a lot funnier this way.
Her Minigun is better in pretty much all situations when you can hit with it. Which is obvious, I suppose, but like ... you really want to be at that range instead of her Rocket Launcher range. But I can't fully comment since without proper teamfight experience I never really felt forced into situations where I had to be at >600 range.
Can't comment too much on her ult without real 5v5 experience though. It fires a lot faster than I thought it would so it's pretty easy to squeeze in when fighting and it's fairly easy to land. I want to try landing it on the clutch Baron fight engage.
I hope they never change her E from the placeholder. It's a lot funnier this way.
Stone Ocean
Member
I will forever call her ult SMD Rocket.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Curious about this myself.
Yes. Welcome to rewards.
Stone Ocean
Member
A few impressions on Jinx:
- Bazooka's extra damage and the splash works on towers. She melts objectives down in seconds and is great at sieges, apparently.
- Her auto attack is sweeeeeeet. Zyra levels of responsiveness.
- Zeal + Rank 5 Q = 1.80-ish attack speed lol. If you're stomping you can pretty much ignore attack speed items, or maybe do the Trist build? Botrk into IE.
- Mafia skin has specific voice lines, pretty sweet.
She might be too strong though. Her ult does a lot of damage on top of the execute.
- Bazooka's extra damage and the splash works on towers. She melts objectives down in seconds and is great at sieges, apparently.
- Her auto attack is sweeeeeeet. Zyra levels of responsiveness.
- Zeal + Rank 5 Q = 1.80-ish attack speed lol. If you're stomping you can pretty much ignore attack speed items, or maybe do the Trist build? Botrk into IE.
- Mafia skin has specific voice lines, pretty sweet.
She might be too strong though. Her ult does a lot of damage on top of the execute.
Gratz!!! It's a wonderful feeling finally getting the Gold. Knowing you get the rewards and you're in a whole new tier
Judging from what ive seen she is a bit on the strong side... Hopefully she isn't worked to death like Lucian
Yeah...
I have an unpopular opinion in that I think new releases should be OP. Not mindblowing broken. OP on release champs that were nerfed seem to be in better shape than the opposite, for the most part. Even when they're heavily nerfed they'll get looked after at some point. That and every champ deserves their day in the sun. I understand why Riot is really careful about that, even though they fail. Every time an OP champ is released the hounds come out and accuse them of doing it on purpose to drive sales.
Could just be perception though because of the particular champs I play, whatever.
Yeah, they kinda "need" to be OP since people can't play them well enough on day 1, and thus the only reason for many people to get decent results is for the champ to be OP, so they stick to it and learn the champ. If the champ is balanced, it will appear underpowered until somebody masters it. The problem is no one will bother to master it.
Imperfected
Member
I think it varies. You can usually count on top lane players to jump on any character that comes out (even when they probably shouldn't), at least as a situational counter to certain other top picks. I feel like most junglers are reasonably willing to experiment, too. ADCs, though? Yeah, if your new champion isn't stupidly overpowered on release, they won't even give it the time of day until you've literally nerfed every other champion to force them into trying it.
Release her a bit strong, get people used to playing her, then bring her down a bit. If you release her weak, people will be so put off by their initial perception that they won't be willing to bother to learn her even once she is brought up to a reasonable level.
This is pretty much along my line of thought. OP champs are played more and get more vocal supporters which increases the odds of the character getting well balanced and in the event that the champ doesn't work, it tends to hasten the rework process. I have no doubt in my mind that had they been OP for a period after release, Viktor would have had his augments reworked and Ziggs kit would have be re-evaluated a long time ago.
Stone Ocean
Member
I agree. A champ being on the strong side gives them a more clear direction of what they can nerf, meanwhile a weak champ can get a lot of meaningless buffs until they get to the spot.
Not too OP though.
Not too OP though.
In regards to Jinx's lane ... I dunno? Without proper games it's hard to say. She doesn't provide any pre-6 burst, really, so getting inside her range (either of them) doesn't really seem scary for most ADCs. Then again, getting OUT of her ranges is potentially a problem since she can always trap you with good use of her E. She'll win drawn out fights due to her ASPD (and she can try to buy the time for that with her E) but those times should be rare, y'know?
Edit: Ao Shin is at least two champions out, I believe. Early Season 4 most likely.
Edit: Ao Shin is at least two champions out, I believe. Early Season 4 most likely.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
No. Probably season 4. I'd say 3-5 months at the soonest.
No. Ao Shin is being designed by a Rioter who's never made a champ before, but CertainlyT confirmed his new champ is immediately after Jinx. Ao Shin is being released to celebrate LoL's anniversary in China (or is just Garena, meh) so find that date and you're probably getting close to when Ao Shin will be released.
Stone Ocean
Member
Hmm, someone was talking about sword of the divine on Jinx, interesting.
Imperfected
Member
So, with Season 3 drawing to a close and the transitional period into Season 4 right around the corner, I've been wondering. What are some things you'd like to see in the game, but more or less know will never happen? I've had the same list pretty much for forever, and already been shot down by several lead designers, including:
Cross-Promotional Tie-Ins. Let's be honest, you use that Yellowjacket Shen skin because you want to pretend like he's Scorpion. You roll with King Rammus because he's Bowser, and the only reason you even unlocked Talon is because you mistook him for Altair. There's no shortage of blatant "homage" in the game to begin with.
Why not make it official? Partner with other companies to offer up proper character skins. You could have a "Nintendo Pack" - Super Mario Tristana, Ganon Darius, Samus Ezreal - or a "DC Comics Pack" - Batwoman Vayne, Deathstroke Zed, Lobo Draven - or a "Capcom Pack" - Dante Lucian, Ryu Lee Sin, Megaman Ezreal - or basically just whatever. You offer the company that owns the IP a cut of the sales of the skin for basically zero labor on their part, and maybe even let them do a cross-promotional tie-in (pre-order Assassin's Creed XVII and get the Ezio Talon Skin - Ubisoft gets an extra pre-order goodie to tempt with, you get some percentage of Assassins' Creed players figuring they may as well give League a shot since they've got this free skin, anyway).
Why it won't happen: The legal nightmare of IP management and already growing concerns among Riot's senior designers that the game's aesthetic is overly muddled because of many of the older champions and perhaps unwise skin choices.
A Complete Theme. There are a lot of partial themes that run through the skins in the game, from the Mafia set, to the "Browser" skins, to the Battlecasts. However, there isn't one complete set of "alternate universe" skins that can be applied to every champion, much less a suitable reskin of Summoner's Rift to go along with it.
I'd love to see a "Futuristic Runeterra" complete theme, with every champion having some form of appropriate skin - Battlecast, Steel Legion, Mecha, Neon Strike, etc. - with the Rift and minions/neutral mobs reskinned to match. A complete, unified aesthetic completely different from the core "grab-bag" design that's been the result of so many champions built over years of different design doctrines.
Why it won't happen: The obvious, there are far too many champions without appropriate skins who'd need them for the undertaking to be in any way reasonable, especially when you consider the number of champions for whom making new skins is essentially verbotten until they get a visual rework, anyway. There are also quite a few champions who simply might not be able to find a suitable means of fitting in with the new aesthetic.
Champions With Ability Options. Think different grooves or Supers chosen at character select in a fighting game: you choose your champion, and during the normal waiting period before the game begins you can also swap out one of that champion's abilities for alternate options. Running Nasus in the jungle? Trade in Siphoning Strike for a gap-closer. Playing Jarvan top? Swap out your shield for a stronger, longer-duration variant without the slow or scaling from nearby enemy champions.
I really find it hard to believe with the glut of MOBA also-rans that more of them aren't playing around with the idea of having at least one of the pieces of a champion's kit be variable to make it easier to play them in different roles or against a wider range of opponents.
Why it won't happen: There's already too many champions in the game for new players to learn without adding to the overhead by making the have to learn which abilities on each champion are optional and what could potentially replace them. The number of champions has also made it hard enough to avoid creating overly-similar champions without further complicating matters. And of course, many champions are balanced - quite precariously - on the sum of their abilities as a total package, such that changing any of them creates far too many potential game balance snarls to be worth the effort.
I'm sure other people have things that they'd love to see in the game that are horribly impractical, or at least extremely unlikely. What's your favorite?
Cross-Promotional Tie-Ins. Let's be honest, you use that Yellowjacket Shen skin because you want to pretend like he's Scorpion. You roll with King Rammus because he's Bowser, and the only reason you even unlocked Talon is because you mistook him for Altair. There's no shortage of blatant "homage" in the game to begin with.
Why not make it official? Partner with other companies to offer up proper character skins. You could have a "Nintendo Pack" - Super Mario Tristana, Ganon Darius, Samus Ezreal - or a "DC Comics Pack" - Batwoman Vayne, Deathstroke Zed, Lobo Draven - or a "Capcom Pack" - Dante Lucian, Ryu Lee Sin, Megaman Ezreal - or basically just whatever. You offer the company that owns the IP a cut of the sales of the skin for basically zero labor on their part, and maybe even let them do a cross-promotional tie-in (pre-order Assassin's Creed XVII and get the Ezio Talon Skin - Ubisoft gets an extra pre-order goodie to tempt with, you get some percentage of Assassins' Creed players figuring they may as well give League a shot since they've got this free skin, anyway).
Why it won't happen: The legal nightmare of IP management and already growing concerns among Riot's senior designers that the game's aesthetic is overly muddled because of many of the older champions and perhaps unwise skin choices.
A Complete Theme. There are a lot of partial themes that run through the skins in the game, from the Mafia set, to the "Browser" skins, to the Battlecasts. However, there isn't one complete set of "alternate universe" skins that can be applied to every champion, much less a suitable reskin of Summoner's Rift to go along with it.
I'd love to see a "Futuristic Runeterra" complete theme, with every champion having some form of appropriate skin - Battlecast, Steel Legion, Mecha, Neon Strike, etc. - with the Rift and minions/neutral mobs reskinned to match. A complete, unified aesthetic completely different from the core "grab-bag" design that's been the result of so many champions built over years of different design doctrines.
Why it won't happen: The obvious, there are far too many champions without appropriate skins who'd need them for the undertaking to be in any way reasonable, especially when you consider the number of champions for whom making new skins is essentially verbotten until they get a visual rework, anyway. There are also quite a few champions who simply might not be able to find a suitable means of fitting in with the new aesthetic.
Champions With Ability Options. Think different grooves or Supers chosen at character select in a fighting game: you choose your champion, and during the normal waiting period before the game begins you can also swap out one of that champion's abilities for alternate options. Running Nasus in the jungle? Trade in Siphoning Strike for a gap-closer. Playing Jarvan top? Swap out your shield for a stronger, longer-duration variant without the slow or scaling from nearby enemy champions.
I really find it hard to believe with the glut of MOBA also-rans that more of them aren't playing around with the idea of having at least one of the pieces of a champion's kit be variable to make it easier to play them in different roles or against a wider range of opponents.
Why it won't happen: There's already too many champions in the game for new players to learn without adding to the overhead by making the have to learn which abilities on each champion are optional and what could potentially replace them. The number of champions has also made it hard enough to avoid creating overly-similar champions without further complicating matters. And of course, many champions are balanced - quite precariously - on the sum of their abilities as a total package, such that changing any of them creates far too many potential game balance snarls to be worth the effort.
I'm sure other people have things that they'd love to see in the game that are horribly impractical, or at least extremely unlikely. What's your favorite?
I would hate this a lot, just because too many variables make it too hard to balance. I would add the ability to veto people off your team before the game starts (ranked only) if they're starting to troll/instalock w/e. Of course all 4 people would need to agree on the vote.
Imperfected
Member
That's certainly been on the wish list forever, though the usual complaint people have is that teams will automatically veto any player trying to play against the meta. Though, exactly how much of a problem that is varies quite a bit based on personal opinion.
Stone Ocean
Member
But we already have ability options, sort of. Just look at Kha Zix.
Changing whole kits beyond that will just completely fuck up balance, specially since we can't tell which skills the opposing team is taking.
Changing whole kits beyond that will just completely fuck up balance, specially since we can't tell which skills the opposing team is taking.
This might just be my lucky experience - and I bitch about this community a ton myself -if you can explain why you want to do a certain pick, people will let you play it...mostly.
My wish list for S4:
1.) Remove Smite from the game. It's legacy from when the jungle used to be stupid hard. Itsonly there to have smite battles now and that's not remotely as interesting (in theory at least) as allowing junglers to run barrier for dives, ignite for counter-jungling, or TP for map pressure.
2.) Rotate the map so the play field is left-right as opposed to isometric view. I've come to really enjoy this in Dom and TT. Barring that, let players invert their UI when playing purple side.
3.) Remove Ancient Golem and Eldar Lizard and replace with another mechanic for map buffs. It doesn't have to be DotA's runes, or TT's altars, but there's lots of XP and gold tied into those monsters that the jungler has to sacrifice and that sucks.
4.) Change the masteries so that instead of Offensive/Defensive/Utility the trees are based on desired role/playstyle (Attacker/Defender/Ganker/Support) and there's some offensive, defensive, and utility stuff within role trees.
Otherwise, Riot is looking after map geometry, jungle XP, and jungle and support gold, and I would imagine improved itemization so...that's nice.
There are no ability options on Kha'Zix anymore.
Stone Ocean
Member
Of course there are!There are no ability options on Kha'Zix anymore.
You have a wide selection of four varieties of "meh" to pick from!
The ability path choice is linear. More now than before even. Q>E>R.
And as an outsider looking in during EVO, it seems like there's always an optimum Super to select so the choice is just an illusion.
Mission Accomplished!
Imperfected
Member
I agree, and I'd further say that if you can't at least mostly convince your teammates that your meta-breaking idea has merit, you shouldn't be running it anyway; at some point you have to make allowances for the fun of the four other people on your team, and that can mean not playing something you really, really want to if it's going to seriously impair the experience of the other players. That said, most of the complaints I hear about this sort of things - players going off the handle over "meta-breaking" - come from the lower-mid (Silver, mostly) brackets, so I don't feel completely comfortable saying that it is or isn't an actual problem simply because it isn't for me, personally. I'm fully cognizant that the experience other people are having may be that "meta-breakers" are ruining their enjoyment of the game, as evidenced by even some posts in this thread.
That's an interesting thought about Smite, though. There's the obvious - that it would require serious rebalancing of the jungle - but that was on always going to be on the table for Season 4, anyway. The main concern I'd have is that there are quite a few junglers who have considerable trouble taking their buffs without it at the beginning of the game, especially if their teammates aren't cooperative in assisting, so you may be looking at a situation where junglers who are already too easy to punish early (Amumu, for example) get an even shorter end of the stick.
There's also the potential problem of having laners return to taking more jungle farm - which was something they wanted to move away from in Season 3, especially in terms of mid-laners sucking up wraith camps - but there might be other ways to discourage that, such as increasing the monster-bashing efficiency of the Machete and related items to make up for the loss of Smite.
I actually like the way they did it with Kha'Zix in theory, though the execution leaves something to be desired. Aside from the spike racks (to become a poker), there wasn't actually much thought given to evolving different variations of the ultimate to suit different roles; all three of the other abilities were pretty clearly evolutions to increase his assassination capability (leap reset, extra stealth, better execute) rather than (for example) making him function better in different lane/jungle roles. There's still the kernel of an interesting idea, in that you might - hypothetically, if not in practice - want to evolve differently to fulfill the one role he has (assassin) based on the conditions in a specific game. There's no real sense of gaining versatility to play different roles as a result of those choices, though, aside from (again) his now-nerfed spike racks evolution.
And yes, having optionable abilities would obviously make the game harder to read, due to not immediately knowing how an enemy champion is being played - though there's no reason you couldn't include that data as part of the loading screen setup the same way summoner spells are displayed - which is one of the major reasons it will never happen, along with the massive balance headaches it would create due to edge case scenarios. As far as summoner spells doing "more or less" the same thing, the basic problem with them is that you have to balance a summoner spell very differently than you balance an ability on a champion, severely limiting what you can do in that space. You couldn't, for example, create a medium cooldown on-hit stun summoner spell without creating massive problems having it show up on already CC-heavy champions, but you could certainly replace an existing ability on a specific champion - like Siphoning Strike on Nasus - with an on-hit stun active without completely throwing his balance out of whack, and by doing so give him at least a moderate amount of early game gank-pressure when being played as a jungler rather than a laner.
You would need a pretty finely-tuned balance to make abilities legitimately "better" for different roles without having one of them be the obvious "best" for all scenarios, which further adds to the balancing problems it would cause, but I feel like if it was designed into a game from the ground-up it would provide significant benefits for the amount of balancing overhead it would cost... just not with the enormous overhead it would cause due to League's already bloated champion pool.
Yeah, this. Infinite Crisis basically uses slightly altered champ abilities as their version of summoner spells. I think items are the best place for additional variation in ability, something dota focuses on.
PhillipCostigan
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Myself and dobkeratops are working on OT5, so if you guys have any title suggestions feel free to post them here so we can shamelessly rob them.
Dodge the pink wards, CC the spears.
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