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League of Legends |OT7| She Ezreal To Me, Dammit!
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
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That's true, and a lot of people were saying the same thing. I know because I laugh thinking about it everytime I watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evjn7_tMRd4. It happened so many times now. Also worth remembering that post "nerfs" lucian was so ridicolously strong that they had to nerf him for real a second time, so he ended up being where he is now (aka in a great spot).
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121025383&postcount=1055
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121025941&postcount=1060
You're confusing me with Philip. I'm not delusional.
and considering my winrate with trist and cait you'd think i'd just play cait every game
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PhillipCostigan
Member
Lucian is bad though
I can't think of a situation where I'd ever want him over any other ADC
I can't think of a situation where I'd ever want him over any other ADC
I was about to argue, but man, I don't know, that's not all that hyperbolic of a statement. Graves, I guess is the only real counter argument. That's one where Lucian is CLEARLY better. Miss Fortune is probably worse unless the person is better than average with her.
Edit: Never mind, the following are, in my mind, objectively worse.
- Sivir
- Quinn
- Draven
- Ezreal
- Ashe
- Varus
- Graves
- Urgot (if he still counts as ADC)
Obviously skill can make up for deficiencies.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I guess it's cool for Riot that they think he's more balanced and he probably is. but there's no reason to pick him anymore. he's worthless.
Kind of like MF. Sure, her kit is pretty balanced. They got her numbers right and all. But there's no reason to ever pick her. So what's the point?
Kind of like MF. Sure, her kit is pretty balanced. They got her numbers right and all. But there's no reason to ever pick her. So what's the point?
pick MF if they pick kog and pair her with an equally monstrous lane bully support. kog will never be relevant.
max e and just e all day urryday regardless of how much damage you're taking while you do it because SLIDING IS FUN
Good Vayne is a myth, unless she's on the other team and then she can totally carry. Vayne, Zed, Leblanc. The Holy Trinity of Only Carrying for the Other Team.
Are you talking about competitive? Or are you talking about regular play?
Mostly in solo queue, but keep in mind I play mostly with Silver-Plat players and the freelo champs are just better down here. For competition play, they're definitely not as strong.
Picks don't generally matter <Plat. Sure some champions aren't meant for competitive play like MF, but that's fine. She stomps in solo q, so that's a good place for her.
Also to clarify, I don't mean that all champions have the same potential to win. It's just that in Silver-Gold etc stuff like counter picking isn't really a reality. You can pick stuff like Vayne, not get punished, and annihilate people by 30 minutes.
You forgot Shaco. Maybe Nasus too. Maybe like 100 other champions depending on how bad games go.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
obviously you never played in season 1.
The easier they are mechanically, the better they tend to be in my ELO. I think that's why Sivir and the like suffer so hard in the matches I see.
And definitely, counter picking is useless at this level. Any time I take Katarina my team will whine about me getting countered or whatever. Aside from Yasuo and Kassadin, I'm happy to lane against anybody with Katarina.
Heck, I top laned last night against Kayle with Darius. My team freaked on my in champ select because I picked into her. Well, I went 16-3-19 and the Kayle was 4 divisions above me in ranking.
So yeah, I dunno. Lucian is no longer a freelo champ in my mind, but there are plenty of more complex ADCs that will trip people up at my level.
Shouldn't you be learning a high skill champ then?
PhillipCostigan
Member
Yasuo... not a high skill champion...
brb, taking a 30 minute break from the thread before I get banned again.
brb, taking a 30 minute break from the thread before I get banned again.
dood in my game just now was using a skin he didnt own he was prtty confused
a gud yasuo is more about playing correctly than anything particularly difficult
like i guess not missing your q stabbies is pretty important
i guess you could practice your reaction time with his w but that's not hard to get down either
a gud yasuo is more about playing correctly than anything particularly difficult
like i guess not missing your q stabbies is pretty important
i guess you could practice your reaction time with his w but that's not hard to get down either
No resource management (walking for a free shield lol), instant spammable autotargeted dashes, free crit passive, only melee champion with "aimable" melee attacks, AoE Fiora ult with stun and instant cast/teleport...
The only skillful thing about this overly generic samurai is landing the tornado (in the unlikely case of not having free ults because of allies with knockups), so go figure.
I forgot the wall. Oh wow hahah the fucking wall.
The only skillful thing about this overly generic samurai is landing the tornado (in the unlikely case of not having free ults because of allies with knockups), so go figure.
I forgot the wall. Oh wow hahah the fucking wall.
To be fair to you, I did try him out in a team builder. I had no idea what I was doing and sucked in lane. After getting a couple of full items I turned into a monster though and wrecked face in the late game. It was a little silly. I think it was partly because they wrote me off and I farmed up and came back strong.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
This tower never died.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I think the Riot Ward skin code can be used once per server? If so, quote this post for one (and post if you took it). NA is already used.
Credit for this goes to Bamelin who generously gifted it to me.
Credit for this goes to Bamelin who generously gifted it to me.
PhillipCostigan
Member
honestly, if we want to go full #DeadNames on it, then sure Yasuo is a bundle of on-paper OP mechanics and is the most broken champion in the game. But saying that it doesn't require skill to effectively use those abilities in the right way and get the max out of Yasuo is simply false.
Yeah, ideally infinite dashes is insane. But actually making full and proper use of that mechanic takes a lot of skill. otherwise it's just another way for you to jump around enemies and die because you're doing no DPS. Being able to react to people to dodge skills, measuring at what distance you want to start the dash (because it has a fixed distance) so you don't go too far into the team or so that you get jungle wall dashes off perfectly consistently all requires skill.
You can give people a mechanic that sounds broken but if they don't have the skill and don't put in the practice required to utilise it effectively, then it's not really broken, is it?
You could break down every one of his skills like that. All of the skills that sound broken on paper require skill and practice to use efficiently.
Saying Yasuo requires no skill to use well is simply incorrect. He above all other champions emphasises someone's skill level and the effort they put in to practising him.
Yeah, ideally infinite dashes is insane. But actually making full and proper use of that mechanic takes a lot of skill. otherwise it's just another way for you to jump around enemies and die because you're doing no DPS. Being able to react to people to dodge skills, measuring at what distance you want to start the dash (because it has a fixed distance) so you don't go too far into the team or so that you get jungle wall dashes off perfectly consistently all requires skill.
You can give people a mechanic that sounds broken but if they don't have the skill and don't put in the practice required to utilise it effectively, then it's not really broken, is it?
You could break down every one of his skills like that. All of the skills that sound broken on paper require skill and practice to use efficiently.
Saying Yasuo requires no skill to use well is simply incorrect. He above all other champions emphasises someone's skill level and the effort they put in to practising him.
Most people who play yasuo take e level one and move into every enemy skill shot at level one. They think they look cool but lose lane almost instantly. Teamfights start with them being underfarmed and going in first. They randomly windwall on top of themselves and dawg over it then die. I agree his kit is great but using it requires thought and prediction which you wouldnt instantly have. His passive is fine now that you don't get a free fill of it when you ult.
i dont think he's skilless or op on paper
i just dont think he's really harder than most of the champs in the game
like maybe we are operating under different definitions of mechanics
like an insec kcik used to be considered high mechanics but it isn't anymore, it's standard
something impressive mechanically would be responding to someone flashing out of an insec kick with a flash kick
i just dont think he's really harder than most of the champs in the game
like maybe we are operating under different definitions of mechanics
like an insec kcik used to be considered high mechanics but it isn't anymore, it's standard
something impressive mechanically would be responding to someone flashing out of an insec kick with a flash kick
Regardless of whether we think Yasuo is OP or not, I think we can all agree that he has an actual skillcap and does require more commitment to play well than the likes of AP Sion, Malzahar and Garen.
I agree with brian that people are generally better mechanically nowadays. Anivia and Karthus were the high skillcap difficult champs to play back in season 1. When Lee Sin was released he was immediately buffed the next patch because nobody could play him effectively - he was way too hard for the community at the time. He needed to be nerfed so many times after that once people learned to play him, and that's before the Insec became a thing. Now all this is common for decent lee players.
edit: Phillip also makes a good point in talking about skill cap and skill floor as two different things; they definitely are.
I agree with brian that people are generally better mechanically nowadays. Anivia and Karthus were the high skillcap difficult champs to play back in season 1. When Lee Sin was released he was immediately buffed the next patch because nobody could play him effectively - he was way too hard for the community at the time. He needed to be nerfed so many times after that once people learned to play him, and that's before the Insec became a thing. Now all this is common for decent lee players.
edit: Phillip also makes a good point in talking about skill cap and skill floor as two different things; they definitely are.
PhillipCostigan
Member
If you want to talk about skill floor, then yeah his general skill floor is no higher than any other champions in the game. I feel like most champions have a pretty similar skill floor in the game, aside from a select few that are very friendly to new players.
Yasuo, however, has a massive skill cap. Probably the highest in the game.
If you want to say Yasuo requires no skill to use on a basic level, then sure. Welcome to every champion in League of Legends.
But I would dispute any assertion that he requires no skill to use effectively.
Yasuo, however, has a massive skill cap. Probably the highest in the game.
If you want to say Yasuo requires no skill to use on a basic level, then sure. Welcome to every champion in League of Legends.
But I would dispute any assertion that he requires no skill to use effectively.
i think karthus is prtty hard to play
i think ashe is harder to play than corki
like these are examples of how i think about mechanics i guess
i dunno what skill floor or skill cap means but id say yasuo is more easily underestimated compared to a lot of champs
like ppl often go in on him in bad situations
i think ashe is harder to play than corki
like these are examples of how i think about mechanics i guess
i dunno what skill floor or skill cap means but id say yasuo is more easily underestimated compared to a lot of champs
like ppl often go in on him in bad situations
i don't like yasuu too much so i'll just add my receiving end thoughts on him, which can be summed up as
"he's a bullshit champion"
doesn't mean that he doesn't take skill or can't be beaten and he's far from the only one, but he's just a champion you're constantly playing against and going "awww bullshit!"
i find that he's just a bunch of annoying shit. and sure he has to outplay you to beat you, but he gets so many fucking tools to do so that at one point you can't really even pretend you can fight him 1v1. and they want to remove the zhonyas thing with his ult, wtf
but yea generally frustrating stuff:
* ridiculous scaling that can singlehandedly turn a game in one good ult
* ult shield that means that you can't basically win duels against him post-6
* weird ult armor penetration thing i never understood, but basically means that zhonyas isn't that good of a counter (the fuck i'm supposed to build against this moron)
* infinite dashes wouldn't be so bad but he also has a shield and windwall. nothing is "ineffective" against him but everything is less effective which makes it so that you feel out of options when playing against him
* can do wraiths for free as any manaless champion. also push lane for free with shield
* why did yasuu have to be manaless again? olaf has two abilities that don't cost mana but he's still a mana champion because mana gating is an important mechanic. if it's not gonna be mana then cooldowns! yasuu has neither :/
* i find windwall and tornadoes very hard to see
* he attracts the most obnoxious crowd but i guess that's not necessarily yasuu's fault
prolly more, not necessarily everything's right but that's my experience.
"he's a bullshit champion"
doesn't mean that he doesn't take skill or can't be beaten and he's far from the only one, but he's just a champion you're constantly playing against and going "awww bullshit!"
i find that he's just a bunch of annoying shit. and sure he has to outplay you to beat you, but he gets so many fucking tools to do so that at one point you can't really even pretend you can fight him 1v1. and they want to remove the zhonyas thing with his ult, wtf
but yea generally frustrating stuff:
* ridiculous scaling that can singlehandedly turn a game in one good ult
* ult shield that means that you can't basically win duels against him post-6
* weird ult armor penetration thing i never understood, but basically means that zhonyas isn't that good of a counter (the fuck i'm supposed to build against this moron)
* infinite dashes wouldn't be so bad but he also has a shield and windwall. nothing is "ineffective" against him but everything is less effective which makes it so that you feel out of options when playing against him
* can do wraiths for free as any manaless champion. also push lane for free with shield
* why did yasuu have to be manaless again? olaf has two abilities that don't cost mana but he's still a mana champion because mana gating is an important mechanic. if it's not gonna be mana then cooldowns! yasuu has neither :/
* i find windwall and tornadoes very hard to see
* he attracts the most obnoxious crowd but i guess that's not necessarily yasuu's fault
prolly more, not necessarily everything's right but that's my experience.
i dont think anyone is saying he doesn't take skill to play tho, unless u invested in dat nev talk
but i guess i stand by the idea that he benefits a lot more from smart play compared to difficult mechanical play
i mean his dash looks tricky, and so does lee's but i don't think they are really difficult
using them well has a lot more to do with decision making than difficulty
oh here's like a simpler example
so kick-flash with lee probably takes a few tries to get down, or like ali's pulv-flash, but i mean no sweat right
but using them in intense situations consistently with counterplay in mind (like if ali looks like he's gonna pulv-flash but just decides to throw it on the ground/throws it on the ground, decides that they aren't gonna flash and flashes) probably takes a lot more skill, and uses quick fingers that react to what ur brain is telling u
yasuo presses e on stuff where ur brain tells you to, or presses w on places where your brain thinks is good
it's definitely easier to click on a target as a reaction (ads do it all the time), though maybe aiming the wall is a little harder to do quickly (tho lets b real, yasuo rarely needs to throw it in other places besides in front of him in most cases)
that's what i think of when i hear 'mechanics' i think, but i mean it's totally likely that i dont understand the word
but i guess i stand by the idea that he benefits a lot more from smart play compared to difficult mechanical play
i mean his dash looks tricky, and so does lee's but i don't think they are really difficult
using them well has a lot more to do with decision making than difficulty
oh here's like a simpler example
so kick-flash with lee probably takes a few tries to get down, or like ali's pulv-flash, but i mean no sweat right
but using them in intense situations consistently with counterplay in mind (like if ali looks like he's gonna pulv-flash but just decides to throw it on the ground/throws it on the ground, decides that they aren't gonna flash and flashes) probably takes a lot more skill, and uses quick fingers that react to what ur brain is telling u
yasuo presses e on stuff where ur brain tells you to, or presses w on places where your brain thinks is good
it's definitely easier to click on a target as a reaction (ads do it all the time), though maybe aiming the wall is a little harder to do quickly (tho lets b real, yasuo rarely needs to throw it in other places besides in front of him in most cases)
that's what i think of when i hear 'mechanics' i think, but i mean it's totally likely that i dont understand the word
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