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[pigeon]

It's really easy to get 25 kills as Yasuo. I know because I could do it like the first time I played him. But I totally lost that game anyway, so, data points. I think that keeping Yasuo alive is what takes skill.

The strategy to counter Yasuo is the same as, say, countering Kat. He has to be vulnerable to do damage, so CC him and focus him. If your CC is a skillshot, though, your life will be difficult, because it's hard to hit him with it. So play a champ with point and click CC like Annie or Ryze.

Or Swain him and win the game, yolo.

 

[Nekofrog]

RIP my stolen Air Force chair, 2000something-2014. It served its country and my ass well. Any suggestions for a new chair in the $500 range?

 

[Ferrio]

I once had an office chair almost impale me up the ass.... that would of been a really humiliating way to die. Don't buy that chair.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

i dont think anyone is saying he doesn't take skill to play tho, unless u invested in dat nev talk

but i guess i stand by the idea that he benefits a lot more from smart play compared to difficult mechanical play
i mean his dash looks tricky, and so does lee's but i don't think they are really difficult
using them well has a lot more to do with decision making than difficulty

yeah, the Nev thing is what I was referring to. Smart decision making is skill too. It's pretty much the entire crux of my point. 0.5 second dash cooldown is crazy. Long range teleport ult is crazy too. But learning to use those well and at the right time, in the right way requires practice and skill.

 

[brian!]

yeah, the Nev thing is what I was referring to. Smart decision making is skill too. It's pretty much the entire crux of my point. 0.5 second dash cooldown is crazy. Long range teleport ult is crazy too. But learning to use those well and at the right time, in the right way requires practice and skill.

yeah if decision making is part of mechanics then im d0wn with yasuo being prtty mechanically difficult

anybody whos prtty squishy and has to go in on a team where maokai and ryze and braum are popular is prtty hard

 

[PhillipCostigan]

hey NA GAF

come play some co-op vs AI with us on your EU accounts.

well in like 20 mins/half an hour

 

[zkylon]

It's really easy to get 25 kills as Yasuo. I know because I could do it like the first time I played him. But I totally lost that game anyway, so, data points. I think that keeping Yasuo alive is what takes skill.

The strategy to counter Yasuo is the same as, say, countering Kat. He has to be vulnerable to do damage, so CC him and focus him. If your CC is a skillshot, though, your life will be difficult, because it's hard to hit him with it. So play a champ with point and click CC like Annie or Ryze.

Or Swain him and win the game, yolo.

yup, basically

lizzy's my go to champ against him

you wanna be cute samurai boi?

ice bitch can be cute too

edit: that being said he's just fucking annoying to play against, your yasuo always feeds, theirs always gets the clutch ults and that's why he's permaban and nobody likes him. i keep saying this over and over, his ult shield needs to go, i don't get why riot keeps circling around the biggest annoying thing about him.

 

[brian!]

i forgot what my eu name was

i think his ult shield is a little powerful but i dont really mind it since his ult necessitates him to go into dying range

 

[PhillipCostigan]

i forgot what my eu name was

three miners

 

[brian!]

oh yeah haha

 

[zkylon]

i forgot what my eu name was

i think his ult shield is a little powerful but i dont really mind it since his ult necessitates him to go into dying range

well risk reward yo, not the best example but syndra has to get into (her) dying range to ult ppl and she doesn't have all those fancy tricks

like imo again he's an assassin made out to be a "light fighter". he doesn't do dps, he flat out murders half your team with his ult then cleans up.

but he has all the tools to be around for dps

he's diana

or something

 

[Ghost is Bad]

i had to make my euw account like 56 letters in random order.

 

[brian!]

well risk reward yo, not the best example but syndra has to get into (her) dying range to ult ppl and she doesn't have all those fancy tricks

like imo again he's an assassin made out to be a "light fighter". he doesn't do dps, he flat out murders half your team with his ult then cleans up.

but he has all the tools to be around for dps

he's diana

or something

i c what you mean even tho the example is a bit off
but he's an assassin and ppl pick stuff against that, you can even exhaust him during his ult

 

[dimb]

Regardless of whether we think Yasuo is OP or not, I think we can all agree that he has an actual skillcap and does require more commitment to play well than the likes of AP Sion, Malzahar and Garen.

I've got a lot of respect for anyone who plays Garen in this meta.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

well risk reward yo, not the best example but syndra has to get into (her) dying range to ult ppl and she doesn't have all those fancy tricks

like imo again he's an assassin made out to be a "light fighter". he doesn't do dps, he flat out murders half your team with his ult then cleans up.

but he has all the tools to be around for dps

he's diana

or something

he's only really an assassin in the late game, and that's simply because of crit damage. for most of the game he has to dps because he has no inherent burst. He's all about building up stacks (Q and E) and has no way to get out of fights like other assassins.

 

[brian!]

he's an assassin like yi is an assassin except i guess yi can use his happy f33t ult to run away

 

[bokn]

obviously you never played in season 1.

Let us not forget how gross AshexZyra was for part of season 3.

Anivia and Karthus were the high skillcap difficult champs to play back in season 1.

I still think Karthus and snow as snails Q Anivia are still hard to play...

The strategy to counter Yasuo is the same as, say, countering Kat. He has to be vulnerable to do damage, so CC him and focus him. If your CC is a skillshot, though, your life will be difficult, because it's hard to hit him with it. So play a champ with point and click CC like Annie or Ryze.

Or Exhaust on your midlaner.

I don't know why so many people have such a fixation on Tristana whilst never mentioning Kog'maw, who is better than Tristana in almost every aspect with the caveat that one must watch their positioning. This shows me that what people hate isn't really her godlike lategame, but the difficulty in catching her, which is fair enough. But that's her thing - strong late game with good escape. Her shitty midgame is also her thing.

 

[zkylon]

yea ok he's less of a zed assassin of deleting one guy and more of a high mobility dude that destroys your whole team in one spell. that's why i thought of diana rather than lebonk, no way to get out once he engages so he's overloaded with crap to even do his shit

and so that leads to problem number one of him having too many tools, so right "counterplay" moments feel way too fucking sparse. like you gotta wait his shield out, bait his windwall, hit your skillshots through dashtown and then hope he didn't just 3 stack dash to you or just got lucky tornado and then ult and lol ok he won anyways!

and like not even that but you gotta also mind that merc treads million hp maokai that's just spamming his pushing spell and giving him free ults chances all teamfight long

it's too fucking much and i always felt master yi and tryndamere and kat counters of "save your stupidest cc for them" was a really bad way of thinking champion interactions.

like imo no matter how much you spin it if a champion's banned in 67% of the games then his design is pretty fucked up. yeah ok it might be a perception thing but you know there's a reason champions with hard to deal with mecahnics are always up there, lol's current "climate" doesn't fully support these types of champions to exist in a fun way

and like i don't want infinite dashes to go away, i used to find it fun playing against yasuu before they went ahead and buffed everything about him (and yea, specially ult shield), but there needs to be more counterplay that "pick lizzy and wait until them outplay themselves so you can targeted stun dfg them before they can actually do anything"

I don't know why so many people have such a fixation on Tristana whilst never mentioning Kog'maw, who is better than Tristana in almost every aspect with the caveat that one must watch their positioning. This shows me that what people hate isn't really her godlike lategame, but the difficulty in catching her, which is fair enough. But that's her thing - strong late game with good escape. Her shitty midgame is also her thing.

ppl almost never hate raw strength, they hate being powerless against strength which is trist's problem

and which is morg's problem, was nidalee's, kassadin's, rengar's, etc. etc.

and kog is like all around stronger than trist but dealing with him is something people find feasible so that's almost no one whines about kog

 

[DY_nasty]

you can't really say he's in diana's category because if diana misses her wonky skillshot just once or Rs too soon she's boned completely and there's no wall of mercy to save her

 

[zkylon]

yea well there's a reason ppl learned to diana q while ulting :>

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I feel like against teams with questionable mobility, Nami is just broken. Crushed so many dreams in this game. I missed exactly 1 bubble all game long.

 

[brian!]

green poop

 

[PhillipCostigan]

what do you mean they buffed everything about him? lol. the only actual buff he got was shield on ult, and since then he's only been nerfed.

Selective memory man.

Also I don't see how Yasuo has no counterplay. I guess you could argue his ult distance, but his ult is conditional on a knock up and if an entire team is clumped together and getting knocked up for a Yasuo ult then the problem lies with their misplay, not with Yasuo being broken.

if you find him annoying to play against, that doesn't mean he has no counterplay. I'd also wager the majority of your dislike comes from you play mainly mages, which is what he's good against.

idk,

 

[Ferrio]

My first placement match went well. I called the shots, everyone listened to me... it was an utter crushing defeat for the enemy team.

Props to kayle on being a smart cookie and noticing I was counter jungling naut and joined me to kill him right after he took his 2nd buff.

 

[Haly]

Typical Vayne team fight contribution.

 

[zkylon]

what do you mean they buffed everything about him? lol. the only actual buff he got was shield on ult, and since then he's only been nerfed.

Selective memory man.

i know i know

i dunno why i write things i know are wrong, i'm stupid

he got a bunch of qol shit and bugfixes and the ult shield thingie

i thought he was balanced and fun before that but probably he wasn't even without the ult shield

memory has to do with this for sure as playing against him was pretty fun early on cos no one really knew how to play with or against him

Also I don't see how Yasuo has no counterplay. I guess you could argue his ult distance, but his ult is conditional on a knock up and if an entire team is clumped together and getting knocked up for a Yasuo ult then the problem lies with their misplay, not with Yasuo being broken.

i think his "windows of counterplay tm" are too short and too conditional for sure

you want to harass him under turret, windwall

you want to harass him in lane or when he's csing, shield

you want to all in him, ult shield

you can buy zhonyas but it's only half as effective

you can't really outfarm him as he doesn't even take damage from wraiths lol

and yea everything you do has to go through a billion dashes

ult is not specially a "conditional thing" when champions with spammable aoe knockups like thresh, nami, maokai, alistar, etc. are in meta.

and yea i can pick lizzy and grab exhaust but that's just such a lame way of "outplaying". like it's just all champion select shit which is completely against what riot is always saying.

edit: ofc u can all in him without him getting his ult off or he might fuck up windwall but imo it's usually an uneven amount of work on the receiving end

you find him annoying to play against, that doesn't mean he has no counterplay. I'd also wager the majority of your dislike comes from you play mainly mages, which is what he's good against.

idk,

ok hey, it's not me

go to lolking ban stats, 67% of the people find him annoying to play against

that's a lot of people, literally two thirds of the players in the game don't want him in their games

yasuu is a champion that is just unquestionably problematic because everyone fucking hates him

and i don't "dislike" him the way i dislike morgana or whatever, i think windwall is really fun to play against and i like the knockup thing. he has tons of dumb stuff in him that are exciting. but he's just frustrating to play against, he's hated by children and adults alike, so something's gotta give

 

[TomShoe]

demoted

my god im so frustrated i can't even

 

[Newt]

ADC list in terms of difficult.

1 .Draven - Pretty self explanatory, axe mechanic makes everything twice as difficult.
2. Vayne - Laning is a nightmare since you had no waveclear or long ranged abilities. Requires aggressive play, but can easily be punished because of her low range.
3. Sivir - Probably the worst laning phase of any ADC. Damage heavily dependant on landing Q, low range, need good reaction with spell shield.
4. Varus/Ashe - Put these two together because their kits are comparable. Both require good positioning, and their ults can be difficult to land.
5. Kogmaw/Twitch/Jinx - Both lack reliable escapes, but there's nothing too inherently challenging in their kits.
6. Corki - I guess his Q is sorta kinda not really hard to land :/
7. Ezreal - Requires balanced aggressive play to deal meaningful damage.
8. Miss Fortune - Just requires good positioning since she has no escape.
9. Caitlyn - Doesn't really have steroids, so you need to stay alive long in fights. Laning is braindead.
10. Graves - Only his smokebomb is something that's hard to use correctly. His other abilities are very basic.
11. Lucian - Similar situation to graves. Slightly easier since you don't need to be close range to use q for maximum effectiveness.
12. Trist - All you do in most fights is auto. If someone gets close R them away or W away.



Quinn? Wtf is a Quinn?


Agree? Disagree?

 

[zkylon]

lux is best adc

 

[Ferga]

I don't ban yasuo to avoid him on the enemy team, I ban him so I don't have to deal with a feeder on my team.

He's one of the easiest champs to feed with in Lol. He's a noob trap.

And I whole heartedly believe Yasuo has a high as hell skill cap. It's not easy to play him right against another good enemy laner.

He doesn't just dash around and kill people. You need to manage Qs and shields to avoid getting poked too much in the early levels. He also has a kit which forces him to push which isn't ideal for any mid laner.

People who don't manage the shield properly will lose against an equally skilled mid laner.

 

[DY_nasty]

Quinn? Wtf is a Quinn?

jungle

 

[dimb]

I think lining up Twitch ult and playing around his stealth is pretty difficult but maybe that's just me. I also think don't think Graves is that easy when he's one of the few ADCs with burst that can miss or be dodged.

 

[zkylon]

srs response tho. i'm thinking "difficulty to play well", not just to do basic operating the champion and getting carried thing

i'd place ezreal higher for sure, probably top 4. very unique kit and can't just stay in the back q q q and get good results. his laning is also pretty weird and i think last hitting with him is kind of a bitch specially if you're getting constantly pushed

varus and ashy i'd put a lot lower. i mean they're just underwhelming atm but that's not really difficulty. they just have to land skillshots

i'd put kog higher than twitch for sure. kog's got lots of managing with like w range and ult mana costs and he's just weird to play.

lucy also higher, tho i dunno after his rework. i felt like he was pretty hard to play before even tho his laning is pretty stupid, but that might just be me

no comments on the rest

I don't ban yasuo to avoid him on the enemy team, I ban him so I don't have to deal with a feeder on my team.

He's one of the easiest champs to feed with in Lol. He's a noob trap.

And I whole heartedly believe Yasuo has a high as hell skill cap. It's not easy to play him right against another good enemy laner.

He doesn't just dash around and kill people. You need to manage Qs and shields to avoid getting poked too much in the early levels. He also has a kit which forces him to push which isn't ideal for any mid laner.

People who don't manage the shield properly will lose against an equally skilled mid laner.

i don't think that anyone but nev argues otherwise

and like that says a lot lol

 

[Nekofrog]

my list of handsomest, dashingest, sexiest, all around fabulous adcs:

1. corki
2. corki
3. corki
4. corki
5. urgot

 

[Mothman91]

my list of handsomest, dashingest, sexiest, all around fabulous adcs:

1. corki
2. corki
3. corki
4. corki
5. urgot

this man gets it

 

[Fracas]

I still don't understand why battlecast urgot just can't be the default skin.

 

[dimb]

Ezreal is like the easiest CSer in the game. Low cooldown/low mana Q for easy farm. He's like the Zed of bot lane only you can't even get zoned. He's also like Zed in that 90% of the ones you see on your team don't know how to play the champion. Kog'maw is also astoundingly easy to play because it's almost impossible to not get a good amount of damage off in fights.

 

[zkylon]

i love how he didn't even consider caitlyn lol

also jinx is weirdly absent too

wtf newt

Ezreal is like the easiest CSer in the game. Low cooldown/low mana Q for easy farm. He's like the Zed of bot lane only you can't even get zoned. He's also like Zed in that 90% of the ones you see on your team don't know how to play the champion. Kog'maw is also astoundingly easy to play because it's almost impossible to not get a good amount of damage off in fights.

i dunno i feel like he's more troublesome since you get pushed so easily by ppl with better waveclear like cait or jinx or varus. he's easy to farm under turret with but laning as ez is weird

btw the zed % thing applies to enemy teams too

 

[Einbroch]

newt y u hurt me

 

[Newt]

srs response tho. i'm thinking "difficulty to play well", not just to do basic operating the champion and getting carried thing

i'd place ezreal higher for sure, probably top 4. very unique kit and can't just stay in the back q q q and get good results. his laning is also pretty weird and i think last hitting with him is kind of a bitch specially if you're getting constantly pushed

Ez is not hard to play. He's definitely easier than someone like Ashe.

 

[zkylon]

i don't see how you can think ashy's hard to play :I

it's like a haly thing, just because she doesn't have mobility doesn't mean she's super hard

haven't we been talking this exact same thing about yasuo for the past two pages -_-

 

[Newt]

i don't see how you can think ashy's hard to play :I

it's like a haly thing, just because she doesn't have mobility doesn't mean she's super easy

haven't we been talking this exact same thing about yasuo for the past two pages -_-

Ashe is a lot tougher than you think man. Landing those perfect arrows is really difficult.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Quinn is the hardest because you need mad skillz to win

 

[Ferrio]

Second placement was a carnival of stupid.

1. I'm first pick. Everyone calls their roles except one person, ask him mid or jungle. No response...so counts down and I pick jungle. He pipes up that he wanted jungle but didn't respond because he was watching protatomonster. He says he doesn't know how to mid... picks TF and goes up against a leblanc which he doesn't even know what does.

2. Our adc picks sivir which they've never played before, builds horrible, feeds, then rage quits.

3. Our nasus wasn't a total moron, but his keyboard kept dying on him and lost to rene even though I gave him an early gank and protection (he was my only hope)

Nami was cool though.. Only reason I got any kills is I was able to pick off leblanc when they were fucking with us.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1521361989/38876759

 

[dimb]

Quinn is the hardest because you need mad skillz to win

Twitch has the lowest win rate of all AD carries and he has the lowest average CS of any AD carry, with the discrepancy between him and Lucian (the highest) being ~40. Confirmed hard mode.

 

[Type2]

Ashe is a lot tougher than you think man. Landing those perfect arrows is really difficult.

Not with the god himself,taric.
Ashe and Leona is my favorite ashe lane.
Better call a locksmith.

 

[brian!]

ADC list in terms of difficult.

1 .Draven - Pretty self explanatory, axe mechanic makes everything twice as difficult.
2. Vayne - Laning is a nightmare since you had no waveclear or long ranged abilities. Requires aggressive play, but can easily be punished because of her low range.
3. Sivir - Probably the worst laning phase of any ADC. Damage heavily dependant on landing Q, low range, need good reaction with spell shield.
4. Varus/Ashe - Put these two together because their kits are comparable. Both require good positioning, and their ults can be difficult to land.
5. Kogmaw/Twitch/Jinx - Both lack reliable escapes, but there's nothing too inherently challenging in their kits.
6. Corki - I guess his Q is sorta kinda not really hard to land :/
7. Ezreal - Requires balanced aggressive play to deal meaningful damage.
8. Miss Fortune - Just requires good positioning since she has no escape.
9. Caitlyn - Doesn't really have steroids, so you need to stay alive long in fights. Laning is braindead.
10. Graves - Only his smokebomb is something that's hard to use correctly. His other abilities are very basic.
11. Lucian - Similar situation to graves. Slightly easier since you don't need to be close range to use q for maximum effectiveness.
12. Trist - All you do in most fights is auto. If someone gets close R them away or W away.



Quinn? Wtf is a Quinn?


Agree? Disagree?

draven
ashe/varus
twitch
vayne
sivir
lucian
ez
kog
jinx
cait
graves
corki
trist

i havent played mf since they changed her

 

[dimb]

Not with the god himself,taric.

Taric/Ashe is a really low synergy lane. Ashe likes strong initiators or super peelers. Ashe/Leona, Ashe/Zyra, Ashe/Sona are strong. If you want to go the other way play Ashe/Janna or Ashe/Karma.

 

[Type2]

Taric/Ashe is a really low synergy lane. Ashe likes strong initiators or super peelers. Ashe/Leona, Ashe/Zyra, Ashe/Sona are strong. If you want to go the other way play Ashe/Janna or Ashe/Karma.

You missed my edit. The first statement is just a bit of taric swooning.

 

[brian!]

a lot of ashe and varus's power and use is in their cc ults and landing them on the correct targets