Wolf Akela
Member
Was the Vayne Q bug that big that it warranted the big buffs?
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League of Legends |OT7| She Ezreal To Me, Dammit!
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
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pls, they're love taps at best
Ghost is Bad
Banned
stop it with that shitty skin omg
Ghost is Bad
Banned
acht pls. i carried that game with my 4 man sej ults.
Yeah pretty sure they said there'd be very little to no change in her actual power. Must have been a pretty big bug.
we all had cc tho
Ghost is Bad
Banned
my cc was better.
Syph Medwes
Member
you're never gonna find out lol
I read this earlier today but didn't really think about how frustrating it is until just now
Wtf.
Take a horribly inefficient early game jungler, give her a horribly inefficient early game jungle item, and now she's suddenly too strong? She's been pretty much nonexistent for months now. Her clears and early game still suck and her late game presence is almost entirely in the form of CC and % health on her Q. It isn't like her W has ever just blown people up with the % health damage over 4 seconds considering you have to be on top of them to even proc the damage. I know that nothing has come of it yet or is sure to come of it, but what a silly champ to go after with nerfs. Not sure how she can even be problematic when nobody plays her.
After re-reading though, wouldn't that only affect her post-tumble autos? So wouldn't this increase her auto damage for autos between tumbles?
Wtf.
Take a horribly inefficient early game jungler, give her a horribly inefficient early game jungle item, and now she's suddenly too strong? She's been pretty much nonexistent for months now. Her clears and early game still suck and her late game presence is almost entirely in the form of CC and % health on her Q. It isn't like her W has ever just blown people up with the % health damage over 4 seconds considering you have to be on top of them to even proc the damage. I know that nothing has come of it yet or is sure to come of it, but what a silly champ to go after with nerfs. Not sure how she can even be problematic when nobody plays her.
After re-reading though, wouldn't that only affect her post-tumble autos? So wouldn't this increase her auto damage for autos between tumbles?
Ghost is Bad
Banned
it makes not tumbling during ult somewhat stronger, but lets be honest here you're going to tumble a lot during Final Hour. Probably pretty poorly too.
bananabread
Member
My personal experience disagrees with yours. I played League a bit way back in 2010 and sucked at it. Then I picked up Dota 2 in early 2012 and it took over my life for a good 18 months and I got pretty good at it, being highly effective in support roles.
I started playing a bit of League with my work buddies early this year, and found the game extremely mechanically/strategically simple in comparison, largely because positioning and map awareness seem so much less important due to flash/mobility spells and it's a lot harder to get shut out of a lane completely.
I play Blitzcrank exclusively, always run exhaust/ignite (flash is for wimps) and buy basically the same items in the same order every game. I also buy Doran's shield at level 1 and only buy wards if we get behind and I need to start playing 'properly'. Simply by playing highly aggressively and doing my best to break the rigid LoL meta, I've found myself getting matched up against and beating Platinum players despite only playing the game for a few months.
This might not seem like any sort of an achievement but given that I have no idea what any of the items do outside of the ones I normally buy, and I'm constantly asking my friends on skype "what the fuck is that <enemy champion>, can I kill it?" I get the sense that a lot of League players have a massively inflated sense of their own skills because they'll dodge all the non-targeted spells but then still lose the game and blame their support or jungle.
I can understand completely if you think jumping around and dodging spells in the middle of fights is more of a rush and fun, because I'm inclined to agree. However, to say that playing Sniper in Dota is not difficult or engaging when basically every other hero in the game will kill you for free if you step even a pixel out of position is plainly wrong, and to say spell usage in Dota is easier because there's a higher ratio of targeted spells is to ignore the higher mana costs/longer cooldowns making whiffed spells (I'm including instances where you cast the spell and do some damage but fail to have the desired impact) far more impactful on the game.
yea i mean every champion has things to deal with to be able to perform their specific niche, while someone like draven or vayne demand pretty high mechanical skills in an apm kind of way, ashy is more about finding windows of opportunity for ulting plus knowing how to deal with having low mobility. ashe has tools for that in her cc and long range so it's not too demanding but there's that.
i think focusing on which one's harder is kind of pointless so really reality is someone like lucy has tons of options but also and specially now that he got his range gutted he needs to skillfully use that mobility just to function so it's not really an advantage unless used correctly
as for varus/ashy not being too popular, i guess, i think specially in competitive is a lot due to pick comps falling off since all assassins got nerfed and supports and junglers have more gold so they're not easy targets anymore. varus wasn't so much about picks but simply there are people that do his job better
i don't really use any of those
i was just a really innocent girl when i starting posting here
eh it was a small nerf that nami won't give a shit about
i dunno why they nerfed her tho, she wasn't really crowding out her niche as much as that niche being nonexistant. i mean sona's there but you know, no competition right now
it's so weird that people call these things downgrades
like bad detail isn't good at all, it's visual noise and makes champions less pleasing to look at and harder to read
new sona has a more vibrant color palette and stronger highlights with smoother in-betweens, which imo is pretty much perfect if it weren't for the fatty arms
lol unfortunately they fixed that bug long time ago
it was hilarious watching her freak out
dude, no disrespect
but you play blitz exclusively and don't run flash
everything you say about doto is probably right, but you don't know how to play league of legends
bananabread
Member
I know exactly how/why Flash is excellent on Blitz. I refused to use it initially in protest because coming from Dota I thought it was silly that every character in the game had a blink, and then found over time that the kill potential in lane with exhaust/ignite, Doran's instead of ancient coin, and smart positioning is extremely high. This often allows us to win the lane so hard that their support/carry are non-entities for a large portion of the game.
I'm not playing against Challenger tier people, but I certainly win a lot more games than I lose by simply manning up and brawling people who want to sit back and exchange pokes/farm and don't expect this sort of disruptive behavior. If I took the game at all seriously I'd probably use flash to go for the big downtown 3-point hook.
The attitude you're showing here is one of my biggest problems with League: the devotion to the rigid meta. I've found that my way of playing Blitzcrank can be highly effective, although it tends to be a bit of an 'all in' that backfires if things go poorly (ie we don't get kills and the enemy support ends up richer than me due to gold boosting items). You're here telling me that I'm flat out wrong because I'm not following the established order.
i don't disagree the meta is very rigid (which imo isn't terrible since i enjoy playing against similar setups often but ofc i would enjoy more variety) but you're just telling a random story about you playing against bad people and using it to prove a point that doesn't really apply to anyone but yourself
sure i played ad lux a couple times on my smurf but that doesn't mean it'll work on my real account.
like my brother had a warwick top with no flash the other day. it wasn't high elo or anything, it was a placement match for the first time he's playing ranked, and ww got his shit camped and died like 4-5 times in lane. like, this game you basically run flash or get camped and feed. like it or not that's how it works. any decent player will take advantage of you not having flash, it doesn't take a challenger player for this and i'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't have that many games played yet and i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking you're 30.
as for going dorans shield, that's a lot more acceptable and not really crazy at all. i've started dorans ring first on many supports and i've done zhonyas on varus and other weird shit like that. if it works it works, every game is different, etc.
really, if you don't run flash and don't get punished then enemy jungler is really really bad and you're probably in an elo where pretty much everything would work
sure i played ad lux a couple times on my smurf but that doesn't mean it'll work on my real account.
like my brother had a warwick top with no flash the other day. it wasn't high elo or anything, it was a placement match for the first time he's playing ranked, and ww got his shit camped and died like 4-5 times in lane. like, this game you basically run flash or get camped and feed. like it or not that's how it works. any decent player will take advantage of you not having flash, it doesn't take a challenger player for this and i'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you don't have that many games played yet and i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and thinking you're 30.
as for going dorans shield, that's a lot more acceptable and not really crazy at all. i've started dorans ring first on many supports and i've done zhonyas on varus and other weird shit like that. if it works it works, every game is different, etc.
really, if you don't run flash and don't get punished then enemy jungler is really really bad and you're probably in an elo where pretty much everything would work
You're just flat out wrong.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
I'm sorry but if ur coming from dota and u think having a blink on all champs is silly ill just assume u never bought blink daggers.
its like a starcraft player refusing to make air units because u think its cheap being able to fly like wtf
its like a starcraft player refusing to make air units because u think its cheap being able to fly like wtf
bananabread
Member
I've got roughly 340 wins on the account, although a lot of them were from like season 2 where I was terrible at the genre and grinding up to level 30. I've solo queued a couple of times in the last month (normally I only play with my friends) and both times I've been matched up with gold/plat bordered players in the loading screen, although my understanding is that those are representative of last season and not this season so they're probably not the best judge of the ELO I'm at.
I originally posted in this thread because I disagreed with the arguments being used against Dota. Probably best to bail out of this discussion by saying that I'm pleased to have found a way I can enjoy playing LoL and beat the opponents the matchmaking system finds for me and I'll continue to do so, even if it's not the optimal way to do things.
I appreciate your polite and articulate posts. What's your summoner name? If you're on NA, I'd be interested in watching some of your games if you're still playing occasionally.
Peanut Butter
Member
I can't get out of Silver V to save my life. If I keep losing ranked games like it's my job, I'm about to start cracking skulls. I'm so salty.
Duo with me, I need a partner. Silver 2 1 LP ATM, what lane do you main?
Purple Cheeto
Member
Ryze has been OP so many times over the course of League's existence. Even after Shurelya (remember her?) remade him. Same thing with Jax.
Woah it really wasn't.
The problem with your theory is, and I honestly mean no offense by this, things running Exhaust/Ignite on Blitzcrank and not warding is actually super common in very very low bronze. Its not breaking the meta, its just not playing smart.
ryze is kind of balanced right now since he's harder to place in popular team comps atm
same w/ jax
sometimes they are really strong and sometimes they aren't
i think it's cool that banana bread is doing his thing, and I don't think he expects anyone to take what he's saying as indicative of any larger thing
it's definitely not off base to call league (or dota) out for having particular of expectations of what to do, that's a big reason why entry into these games is so notoriously awful
same w/ jax
sometimes they are really strong and sometimes they aren't
i think it's cool that banana bread is doing his thing, and I don't think he expects anyone to take what he's saying as indicative of any larger thing
it's definitely not off base to call league (or dota) out for having particular of expectations of what to do, that's a big reason why entry into these games is so notoriously awful
The question they're raising is, why are they getting matched against platinum players. If they're not playing ranked, it could be that those platinum players are part of weird mismatched premade teams or something, I guess? That's partly why I am interested in watching, to see if the other players are ranked or what.
you don't have to stick w/ the meta to hit higher elos, it just helps if you are cognizant of it
i had a dood in ranked who played basically only ap maokai mid and he did pretty ok
he asked if ppl were ok with it and ppl were down
there was also this famous player silsol who's tactic was basically repeatedly running into the enemy team and i think he ran exclusively heal(pre-buff)/ignite on everyone and he was also pretty high up in the ladder, tho ppl hated playing with him
he would basically feed top every game, but maybe take someone down with him and bring a lot of pressure top, and ppl in his elo actually knew what to do when that pressure was taken off other lanes
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11vyzt/ever_wondered_why_silsol_is_successful/
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofleg...ters_response_to_ever_wondered_why_silsol_is/
i miss chauster he was great, even though tsm were supposed to be bros chauster was the ultimate bro
i had a dood in ranked who played basically only ap maokai mid and he did pretty ok
he asked if ppl were ok with it and ppl were down
there was also this famous player silsol who's tactic was basically repeatedly running into the enemy team and i think he ran exclusively heal(pre-buff)/ignite on everyone and he was also pretty high up in the ladder, tho ppl hated playing with him
he would basically feed top every game, but maybe take someone down with him and bring a lot of pressure top, and ppl in his elo actually knew what to do when that pressure was taken off other lanes
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11vyzt/ever_wondered_why_silsol_is_successful/
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueofleg...ters_response_to_ever_wondered_why_silsol_is/
i miss chauster he was great, even though tsm were supposed to be bros chauster was the ultimate bro
Ghost is Bad
Banned
Normal MMR is separate from ranked MMR.
Yes, but platinum people aren't necessarily required to play awful in normals, it's just an option they have.
Either way it's kind of moot without seeing the games in question.Peanut Butter
Member
I jungle. What's your Summoner name? I'll send you a FR when I get on later on in the day.
bananabread
Member
It should be worth noting that I play a lot of normals with a diamond player as my ADC but the rest of the team being filled out by silver/gold players (my circle of friends), so we often win lane and snowball off that. This has probably inflated my normal MMR to the point where I'm getting matched with Plat players.
Just played my second ranked placement game and the guys I were with ranged from Bronze I to silver 3. The decision making and co-ordination is a great deal poorer than what I'm used to seeing normal matchmaking and I'm 2-0 so far despite playing pretty badly in the most recent game where I couldn't land a hook for the first 10 mins. I'm interested to play through the placement matches and see where I land.
I'm aware of this. I developed these habits as a 'fuck this game lets play Dota instead' protest to my friends, and I've found that it works well enough to kill people when they overextend and spam the taunt/laugh commands which is all I really want to do. I think the point I'm trying to get at is that I can deliberately play sub-optimally and still win games more often than I lose them. I don't think I've come across a player yet where I've gone 'wow that guy is a shitload better at this game than me', but the poster I originally responded to before this whole discussion kicked off was arguing that LoL was massively more mechanically complex than Dota and I was saying that my own experience didn't reflect that.
Then a bunch of people have come at me with the forum equivalent of 'noob blitz no flash gg freelo' when I'm not really in here trying to tell people how to play.
Just played my second ranked placement game and the guys I were with ranged from Bronze I to silver 3. The decision making and co-ordination is a great deal poorer than what I'm used to seeing normal matchmaking and I'm 2-0 so far despite playing pretty badly in the most recent game where I couldn't land a hook for the first 10 mins. I'm interested to play through the placement matches and see where I land.
jerd said:
I'm aware of this. I developed these habits as a 'fuck this game lets play Dota instead' protest to my friends, and I've found that it works well enough to kill people when they overextend and spam the taunt/laugh commands which is all I really want to do. I think the point I'm trying to get at is that I can deliberately play sub-optimally and still win games more often than I lose them. I don't think I've come across a player yet where I've gone 'wow that guy is a shitload better at this game than me', but the poster I originally responded to before this whole discussion kicked off was arguing that LoL was massively more mechanically complex than Dota and I was saying that my own experience didn't reflect that.
Then a bunch of people have come at me with the forum equivalent of 'noob blitz no flash gg freelo' when I'm not really in here trying to tell people how to play.
also, in bananabread's case, it's completely believable that he is playing against the players he says he is and having ok success
he is running two summoners that focus on laning and he makes use of that by starting fights constantly
he misses out on the safety and utility of flash, but is cognizant of how to position without it because of being used to dota, where you have to buy blink
and he probably plays against ppl that don't take advantage of him not having flash and get caught up in his pace
the latter is related to the majority of league players being used to playing against and with flash
all of that checks out to me
also bananabread, the large majority of this thread often disagrees with what Nev says because it is often outrageous, tho he is a tru puppetmaster
he is running two summoners that focus on laning and he makes use of that by starting fights constantly
he misses out on the safety and utility of flash, but is cognizant of how to position without it because of being used to dota, where you have to buy blink
and he probably plays against ppl that don't take advantage of him not having flash and get caught up in his pace
the latter is related to the majority of league players being used to playing against and with flash
all of that checks out to me
also bananabread, the large majority of this thread often disagrees with what Nev says because it is often outrageous, tho he is a tru puppetmaster
i think both lol and dota are balanced well, in the sense that you can play both games and have large room for decision making, strategy, and teamwork be the main factors of the game
league seems to see a smaller champion pool than dota because of the way it's designed and a lot of other factors; I don't think this diminishes the depth of league.
in both games the ability to play well or be effective with a particular champ does not really demand much, which makes total sense in a team 5v5 game
both communities are also known to be fairly dickish to people that don't conform to particular things, but there's a whole other conversation you can have about that; league, I think, is the most played game in the world so obviously there is a variety of experiences to be had, and dota isn't as big but I'd say it's probably the same. I'd just quickly state that it's weird that so many people can have such a negative experience with the game and continue playing, they really shouldn't
league seems to see a smaller champion pool than dota because of the way it's designed and a lot of other factors; I don't think this diminishes the depth of league.
in both games the ability to play well or be effective with a particular champ does not really demand much, which makes total sense in a team 5v5 game
both communities are also known to be fairly dickish to people that don't conform to particular things, but there's a whole other conversation you can have about that; league, I think, is the most played game in the world so obviously there is a variety of experiences to be had, and dota isn't as big but I'd say it's probably the same. I'd just quickly state that it's weird that so many people can have such a negative experience with the game and continue playing, they really shouldn't
I dunno man. I'm looking at these stats for NA LCS and it's 59 Champions pick/banned out of 119, with 16 of those being one-offs. That doesn't seem great to me. The current competitive meta heavily favors a core group of champs, with the top 4 being pick/banned in 90% of games.
Talking about LCS is different from talking about the game as a whole though. We could discuss LCS, or diamond, or silver, but I'm not sure we really framed a specific context.
right, im just saying that does not diminish the game
it might make it more boring to watch for some, but not for me
league itself seems to favor set roles; because of this, tiers of priority champions more easily emerge
Personally speaking, whenever someone brings up "balance", my immediate instinct is to look at competitive stats, because pub balance is just whatever. It's a different game.
yeah same, and by virtue of being a competitive internet game in 2014 you get highly accessible places to glean information from and become authorities on the "best" ways to play the game
like even when dota wasn't that big you would have guides on proper ways to play champs, tier lists, whatever
league players basically brought streaming to what it is today and that was another really visible source to get stuff from
because of this, the highly visible sources of information often greatly contribute to whatever game the normal person is playing, even when the pros are playing almost at an entirely different level (close communication, different objectives, etc.)
there's even this further line of information getting when you consider how often na copies korea in league
also, it's probably rare to have a guy who started playing the game and gets yelled at for "not doing it right" to not try to figure out what that person was talking about and look up the "proper" way to play
the first thing that comes up on google for me when you search "league of legends guide" is mobafire, which for people who having playing the game longer, is notorious for having heaps of shit guides; even a "bronze build" might be derived from such a guide
and then further development for that player as they interact with the community and find out that mobafire is not a great place to go and switch to other guides and other builds
like even when dota wasn't that big you would have guides on proper ways to play champs, tier lists, whatever
league players basically brought streaming to what it is today and that was another really visible source to get stuff from
because of this, the highly visible sources of information often greatly contribute to whatever game the normal person is playing, even when the pros are playing almost at an entirely different level (close communication, different objectives, etc.)
there's even this further line of information getting when you consider how often na copies korea in league
also, it's probably rare to have a guy who started playing the game and gets yelled at for "not doing it right" to not try to figure out what that person was talking about and look up the "proper" way to play
the first thing that comes up on google for me when you search "league of legends guide" is mobafire, which for people who having playing the game longer, is notorious for having heaps of shit guides; even a "bronze build" might be derived from such a guide
and then further development for that player as they interact with the community and find out that mobafire is not a great place to go and switch to other guides and other builds
This is a good point, and It's simpler to acquire this information in league than in dota since you don't have so many rng factors (runes, jungle camps, basic attacks, etc) affecting which teams get an advantage.
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