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[CRS]

Trick2g is the worst fucking influence. Entertaining but toxic to the game. :/

 

[kiunchbb]

Personally speaking, whenever someone brings up "balance", my immediate instinct is to look at competitive stats, because pub balance is just whatever. It's a different game.

Yet 99.999% of us play with pub balance. In term of the quality gameplay pub balance should be more relevant.

 

[Snowman]

It should be worth noting that I play a lot of normals with a diamond player as my ADC but the rest of the team being filled out by silver/gold players (my circle of friends), so we often win lane and snowball off that. This has probably inflated my normal MMR to the point where I'm getting matched with Plat players.

Just played my second ranked placement game and the guys I were with ranged from Bronze I to silver 3. The decision making and co-ordination is a great deal poorer than what I'm used to seeing normal matchmaking and I'm 2-0 so far despite playing pretty badly in the most recent game where I couldn't land a hook for the first 10 mins. I'm interested to play through the placement matches and see where I land.



I'm aware of this. I developed these habits as a 'fuck this game lets play Dota instead' protest to my friends, and I've found that it works well enough to kill people when they overextend and spam the taunt/laugh commands which is all I really want to do. I think the point I'm trying to get at is that I can deliberately play sub-optimally and still win games more often than I lose them. I don't think I've come across a player yet where I've gone 'wow that guy is a shitload better at this game than me', but the poster I originally responded to before this whole discussion kicked off was arguing that LoL was massively more mechanically complex than Dota and I was saying that my own experience didn't reflect that.

Then a bunch of people have come at me with the forum equivalent of 'noob blitz no flash gg freelo' when I'm not really in here trying to tell people how to play.

I mean, if you're playing with a diamond adc against gold players ofcourse you can do whatever the fuck you want and still win lane/game, just because something works doesn't mean it's necessarily the optimal way to play thought right?

And when you're in a LoL thread, essentially talking shit about the game compared to dota, when you don't even play the game "properly" is just asking for it.

 

[SeigO]

h

 

[brian!]

he literally starts his post with "My personal experience..." and doesn't say anything bad about league and is responding to a post where someone straight up says "League of Legends is better than Dota2" which is a wack thing to say

like in a thread where so many people don't bother to qualify their extremely general and personal posts with a statement like that, im lovin it like mcdonalds

it's also widely accepted that silver-plat players exhibit really similar mechanics (though I mean, it's obviously different), and that what separates them is game knowledge and decision making

i wouldn't set such a strict line between ranked and normals, though a line certainly exists; if you treat normals as a place to fuck around, not try, or qualify bad play with "it's only normals" ppl be mad. normals has hidden elo too, so there is a hidden elo climbing aspect to it as well

im gunning for that most frequent poster spot this time
zkylon is trying to thwart me by posting pictures of sona whenever her color changes a different shade of red
but im countering by posting about studio ghibli and responding to every single post

 

[Haly]

Yet 99.999% of us play with pub balance. In term of the quality gameplay pub balance should be more relevant.

In any online game I've played or read about, the most vocal demands for change are always directed at whatever is "top tier", whereas supporters of "bottom tiers" are more fragmented. Every player has his or her favored underdog, but in general, they all unite to complain about whatever is at the top.

This says to me that pubs, which is the MOBA equivalent of the aforementioned players, don't really care about balance. As long as there aren't really overt offenders infringing on their fun, everyone's content, except for some tryhards thinking they're Challengers and that everyone should pick whatever the pros are picking in LCS.

Balancing for pubs is simply a matter of reducing potential sources of complaints, rather than aiming for a level field, which is where I think the real difficulty of balance really comes from.

Another way of framing this is that pubs are looking for very different things from the game than pros. The former wants to maximize their fun, the latter wants to maximize their chances of winning. Naturally, the latter have drastically more interest in seeing a balanced game, unless they wish to exploit a specific imbalance. Devs, I feel, tend to be aware of this too. While they'll nerf the odd pubstomper that escapes playtesting, by and large they're focused on the players who actually give a damn about balance, rather than the ones who are, more or less, perpetually goofing off. Considering Rito's commitment to D I G I T A L S P O R T S, I think any discussion of balance should reasonably veer toward the competitive side of things.

 

[zkylon]

problem with the stuff banana says is that if it's meant to say something about league it just doesn't. it's like super anecdotal stuff and it's normals, with a mix of diamonds and silvers and who knows what else. he's also playing blitz who's a pretty binary character and that can basically amount his life to hook or no hook and he's even getting fed who to hook anyways.

so like whatever that proves i don't know it

now for sure he's right to say having skillshots doesn't make league any more complicated which is the root of this whole thing i think?

i like skillshots but i enjoy targeted spells too and both have their places and doto and league are different games and each use whichever they can use better. league is more fast paces and since there are lots of jumps and low cooldown spells it makes sense for there to be a lot of skillshots. i don't understand why anyone would feel morally obligated to protest against flash but to each its own, if you enjoy gimping yourself out of one of the most playmaking aspects of the game then more power to you.

i personally think the minute to minute of doto is ridiculously boring in that nothing really feels satisfying and everything feels sluggish and unexciting as fuck. that's playing league first for you and i'm sure there must be a lot of combo and teamfight and strategic highs but i'm not capable enough to understand those when just starting out so it ends up being kind of like playing against doom bots and being constantly amazed at the weird shit that's happening around me.

also closer you're really sad

also no one should really take nev too seriously

I mean, if you're playing with a diamond adc against gold players ofcourse you can do whatever the fuck you want and still win lane/game, just because something works doesn't mean it's necessarily the optimal way to play thought right?

And when you're in a LoL thread, essentially talking shit about the game compared to dota, when you don't even play the game "properly" is just asking for it.

he didn't really talk shit about the game, just said that from his experience making his earnest to play the game "wrong" he found that's actually sort of viable

which is true and that's why you get people getting to diamond playing ad sion and other random shit like that

In any online game I've played or read about, the most vocal demands for change are always directed at whatever is "top tier", whereas supporters of "bottom tiers" are more fragmented. Every player has his or her favored underdog, but in general, they all unite to complain about whatever is at the top.

This says to me that pubs, which is the MOBA equivalent of the aforementioned players, don't really care about balance. As long as there aren't really overt offenders infringing on their fun, everyone's content, except for some tryhards thinking they're Challengers and that everyone should pick whatever the pros are picking in LCS.

Balancing for pubs is simply a matter of reducing potential sources of complaints, rather than aiming for a level field, which is where I think the real difficulty of balance really comes from.

Another way of framing this is that pubs are looking for very different things from the game than pros. The former wants to maximize their fun, the latter wants to maximize their chances of winning. Naturally, the latter have drastically more interest in seeing a balanced game, unless they wish to exploit a specific imbalance. Devs, I feel, tend to be aware of this too. While they'll nerf the odd pubstomper that escapes playtesting, by and large they're focused on the players who actually give a damn about balance, rather than the ones who are, more or less, perpetually goofing off. Considering Rito's commitment to D I G I T A L S P O R T S, I think any discussion of balance should reasonably veer toward the competitive side of things.

the game is mostly balanced for competitive with the exception of a few champions that are accepted shouldn't be competitive (teemo). a lot of other champions are old as fuck and need total reworks (zilean, urgot, whatever) or half reworks (lucy, sona, nidalee, kassadin all getting reworked).

that doesn't mean pick variety is a big problem aside from making the game a bit more boring to watch. a lot of the popular pro picks are high skillcap champions (ori, elise, lee sin, syndra, lucy, thresh, yasuo, nami, tf) and while there are a lot of repeats it's not like you're watching same comp every single game.

it's not as big of an issue if you just enjoy watching good teams playing. like try watching ogn and it's fucking ballet man and those guys still play sona (<3) and are constantly innovating.

it should be better tho, which is what 4.13 and onwards are supposed to address

i'm not expecting miracles but you know riot has to undo a lot of old mistakes

 

[Snowman]

he didn't really talk shit about the game, just said that from his experience making his earnest to play the game "wrong" he found that's actually sort of viable

which is true and that's why you get people getting to diamond playing ad sion and other random shit like that

I dunno, you guys are being way more welcoming and friendly than I could be, considering he said "LoL players think they're really good but actually the game is just easy, I just play this stupid cheesy way and they all lose to me, I'm even better than plat-level people and I've barely played much" - paraphrasing a little..

It's like following a DT rush build order every game in starcraft and acting like it's a really easy game because you got all the way to gold league or whatever without even thinking.

Except worse than that because it sounds like he's just getting carried by his friend every game.

 

[dimb]

I don't know why you would even want to play Blitzcrank if you couldn't flash hook.

 

[zkylon]

i dunno like closer says he went all "in my experience"-like and you know just gives his insight after nev said like 80% of doto champions are shit or something

i don't think his story amounts to much, and this has been a discussion of lots of people not understanding each other's games (aka haly thinking mf's hard to play lol), but you know, it's been civil so i'll allow it <3

they're different games in which skillshots, targeted spells and mobility all mean different things.

edit: it is a shitty attitude to play another game with every intent to sabotage the experience for yourself but you know as long as you don't use it as an argument against the game i'm cool with it

I don't know why you would even want to play Blitzcrank if you couldn't flash hook.

random doto reasons

you know

cos everything in doto is rng

 

[Tizoc]

You know when your team has a Teemo and the that Teemo doesn't even turn the rift into a freakin' shroom minefield?
Those are the worst Teemos...

 

[Edwardo]

This guy in my doom bots game just said it's his 18th try to beat them on lvl 1. I asked for tips and they told me not to feed.

 

[Leezard]

This guy in my doom bots game just said it's his 18th try to beat them on lvl 1. I asked for tips and they told me not to feed.

Tough times. They have one thing in their AI that's so easy to exploit it's not even fun:
CAUTION: SPOILER WILL BREAK GAME MODE

Spoiler

When Drake is up, they always go for drake. They will ignore you even if you push inhibitors when they drake.

 

[CRS]

^

Spoiler

its always around the 9 min mark or so.

It's too bad (MF) DOOM bots are so exploitable. It would be a lot more challenging and rewarding if they could react to split pushing a lot easier. Beat level 2 and 3 bots from TPing into their op base and backdooring.

 

[Edwardo]

They randomly all went mid at like 13:50 for an all out push. So top and bot kept going and we got both tier 2 towers. They got 1 of ours but thats ok.

 

[Tizoc]

I'm at the top so I say adc due to pick order.
Some dumb kid takes Ashe, ends up getting killd a bunch of times and in the end costus the game.

Now I'm down to 3X LP from 8X LP :/

 

[Edwardo]

Lol we won. We killed a couple of em and got baron. Then they'd keep splitting up, so we'd kill 1 or 2 and they couldnt handle the split push.

 

[Moodmon]

All this LoL/Doto talk is like comparing toast and pizza. Both fantastic, in different ways. When can we go back to waifu pics and trolling members of the forum that they work at riot?

In the meantime I will attempt to play team builder (because fun) till the end of time, but end up not playing any games at all because of reasons.

 

[Snowman]

All this LoL/Doto talk is like comparing toast and pizza. Both fantastic, in different ways.

so what you're saying is dota is like toast because it's so bland and boring without something on it and lol is like pizza because it's the greatest thing ever, i got you

 

[Tizoc]

I once again risk a demotion, yesterday was all wins, today all losses. Eff it gonna go in no other way to raise that LP lol

 

[Moodmon]

so what you're saying is dota is like toast because it's so bland and boring without something on it and lol is like pizza because it's the greatest thing ever, i got you

You dissing toast? Them's fighting words boy, imma 1v1 at Baron

Spoiler

Please don't, I'm fucking terrible

 

[Tizoc]

You dissing toast? Them's fighting words boy, imma 1v1 at Baron

Spoiler

Please don't, I'm fucking terrible

Toast by itself is eh, but with the right ingredients and condiments, it's yummy.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I feel like I'm too dumb to take part in this discussion

But toast and pizza? That I can do

 

[Edwardo]

Toast is good with breakfast or something, but pizza is always good.

Time to try lvl 2 doomerz

 

[Einbroch]

Who cares both games suck and pizza is just toast with stuff on it gg

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Sona's best skin now tainted with a horribly muted new texture for her skirt. Bang-up job.

Was the Vayne Q bug that big that it warranted the big buffs?

No, because now Vayne players will have the false pretense of her being supposedly good again. I was starting to enjoy her being largely ignored as of late.

 

[TomShoe]

True damage should be banned

 

[Terbinator]

True damage should be banned

Just get more health.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Sona's best skin now tainted with a horribly muted new texture for her skirt. Bang-up job.

More detail and the skirt looking like actual cloth instead of an aluminium sheet = muted?

I mean I know it's supposed to be silk but it looks like shit.

 

[Edwardo]

Yay finished with doom bots. Guy on my team freaked out because I said i'm happy were gonna win because I dont want to play it anymore.

 

[TomShoe]

That feeling when I'm playing as Twitch and I'm running for my life because my team didn't group correctly when engaging, giving Zed a direct path to my butthole

Just get more health.

Naw, I'll be like Bbread and stray from the meta, claiming it works even though I'm just beating up on baddies.

 

[Edwardo]

First ranked game in a few days and they gotta ban lucian. Cmon now why u gotta do me like that.

 

[Orochinagis]

eh it was a small nerf that nami won't give a shit about

i dunno why they nerfed her tho, she wasn't really crowding out her niche as much as that niche being nonexistant. i mean sona's there but you know, no competition right now

Maybe her bubble traps were too much? I still shot that thing next to them

it's so weird that people call these things downgrades

like bad detail isn't good at all, it's visual noise and makes champions less pleasing to look at and harder to read

new sona has a more vibrant color palette and stronger highlights with smoother in-betweens, which imo is pretty much perfect if it weren't for the fatty arms

Maybe its to match the new summon drift but Sona have less textures and details.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

More detail and the skirt looking like actual cloth instead of an aluminium sheet = muted?

I mean I know it's supposed to be silk but it looks like shit.

I'd take the aluminium sheet because it didn't look like it's been drenched in some red juice. Neither texture resembles cloth regardless, and you could actually clearly see the patterns prior to the tweak.

At least the flappers themselves on PBE look good and the orbs got some spit shine.

 

[Terbinator]

Nami is getting nerfed?

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Ya

also how the fuck am I beating zkylon for posts

 

[DeadNames]

I jungle. What's your Summoner name? I'll send you a FR when I get on later on in the day.

Darkin blade, I main too

 

[Pandaman]

Nami is getting nerfed?

sweet justice

 

[dimb]

can you edit lucian's new winrate into the op? thanks.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

sweet justice

good thing they're nerfing braum again too.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Thresh is also getting nerfed, it just didn't make it into the first PBE deploy.

 

[Edwardo]

NA LCS Summer Split - Week 9 - Day 1

Curse vs Team Dignitas
Evil Geniuses vs Counter Logic Gaming
Team SoloMid vs LMQ
Cloud9 vs compLexity

Please use the LCS thread for further discussion. Let's keep this thread spoiler free.

 

[Opiate]

Yi/Zilean combo is a lot of fun.

 

[Tizoc]

Thresh is also getting nerfed, it just didn't make it into the first PBE deploy.

Thank goodness we got a list of whatll b nerfed about him?

 

[Ghost is Bad]

Thresh is also getting nerfed, it just didn't make it into the first PBE deploy.

why they do this to me

 

[Stone Ocean]

Are you honestly surprised that Thresh is getting nerfed?

 

[Ghost is Bad]

no but still

if he gets the annie treatment then the only supports I have left are leona and sona and maybe morgana.

 

[Kotetsu534]

I would much rather play against Nami or Thresh than Leona or Morgana. Leona often feels unkillable with huge pressure and kill potential if your carry is low dps in the early game, even if they're not especially good, and Morgana is one of the most binary laners there is - if she can land good Qs, her lane will easily win, if she doesn't she has no presence beyond making engages hard.

 

[Stone Ocean]

no but still

if he gets the annie treatment then the only supports I have left are leona and sona and maybe morgana.

Nami is getting love tapped and she's fun as balls to play.

 

[Ghost is Bad]

I'm bad at nami though

I would much rather play against Nami or Thresh than Leona or Morgana. Leona often feels unkillable with huge pressure and kill potential if your carry is low dps in the early game, even if they're not especially good, and Morgana is one of the most binary laners there is - if she can land good Qs, her lane will easily win, if she doesn't she has no presence beyond making engages hard.

Leona is one of the easiest supports to shut out. You play Morgana and press E when she does.