-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
League of Legends |OT7| She Ezreal To Me, Dammit!
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
- Start date
- Status
Orochinagis
Member
Kayle buffs!! thank god, her low damage is an issue against a long range bully champion
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
So my friend linked me a thing to get dreadknight garen skin. You just got to link your twitter like the other free skins like trist and ali.
Stone Ocean
Member
The Elise auto range nerf is not pointless, it's her main way of starting a gank when she has red buff.
The Liss changes are weird, whats the point of removing the ratio on W?
The Liss changes are weird, whats the point of removing the ratio on W?
Those Lissandra changes are complete bullshit. The only way I see that working is if it's paired with the proposed passive changes that gives her a shield/defensive stats when applying CC. You know what? No, it's still bullshit because her current passive is garbage.
Wow at this patch. Nerfs everywhere. On the one hand it's ok because lots of nerfs are being directed at problematic champs and items, but isn't the reasoning for nerfing high play/win rate champions as opposed to buffing low play/win rates that it's easier to make changes to the few than the many? Well, what happens when you're nerfing a quarter of the roster directly, and a huge chunk of the rest indirectly through item changes?
Riot needs to rework Elise. So long as she gets to double dip every skill point it's going to be an issue unless they Olaf her into the ground. Give her the Jayce/Nidalee treatment and her second set of skills improve with ultimate rank. Spice things up in contrast to Nidalee by making her spider form her regular set of abilities and her human form the ultimate level linked ones.
Wow at this patch. Nerfs everywhere. On the one hand it's ok because lots of nerfs are being directed at problematic champs and items, but isn't the reasoning for nerfing high play/win rate champions as opposed to buffing low play/win rates that it's easier to make changes to the few than the many? Well, what happens when you're nerfing a quarter of the roster directly, and a huge chunk of the rest indirectly through item changes?
Riot needs to rework Elise. So long as she gets to double dip every skill point it's going to be an issue unless they Olaf her into the ground. Give her the Jayce/Nidalee treatment and her second set of skills improve with ultimate rank. Spice things up in contrast to Nidalee by making her spider form her regular set of abilities and her human form the ultimate level linked ones.
No, the rationale is that nerfing champs that crowd other champions out is a better direction than buffing champions since it doesn't create an arms race situation. But, that only really applies in cases where the underused ones aren't just actually awful regardless of the competition. In those cases, buffs/reworks are better options than nerfing other things.
Stone Ocean
Member
I agree that it doesn't make sense for Liss to have burst - and making that burst any higher will just ensure she gets nerfed into the ground - but though I agree with making her more of a DPS type of mage, her kit will needs a fuckton of tuning for it and not just shaving off 1 second of the Q's CD. She needs the new passive and she needs more changes for her role to make sense, nerfing W's damage and calling it a day will just make her weaker.
Yep. There's a ton of junglers that would be much more playable if they could manage dealing with Elise / Lee. Their tools create a "you must be this tall to do Dragon if the enemy jungler is alive" situation that most junglers just can't compete. Nerfing dominant champions while buffing ok ones will just flip the situation around and create dominant forces.
@zkylon it's less about the dfg item specifically and more about the pattern behind it. when she uses dfg, she 100-0s in a very short window
@zkylon it's not a problem unique to lissandra, but it's one we don't want to make more common.
ricklessabandon being nice and replying to me but the deal he's offering is really bad, lissandra is basically getting nerfed, this is not a good trade at all.
@zkylon it's not a problem unique to lissandra, but it's one we don't want to make more common.
ricklessabandon being nice and replying to me but the deal he's offering is really bad, lissandra is basically getting nerfed, this is not a good trade at all.
Stone Ocean
Member
To be honest I think DFG is a cancerous item that should have been removed entirely from the game two years ago when it first became a problem.
Extra itemized burst will never, ever be balanceable in a satisfactory way. Get rid of that thing and buff the champions that are effectively affected by it.
Extra itemized burst will never, ever be balanceable in a satisfactory way. Get rid of that thing and buff the champions that are effectively affected by it.
Jungling is currently gated by 3 champions, Lee, Elise and to a lesser extent, Eve. If you nerf one of them, you have to nerf the others otherwise whoever goes unscathed will just become the absolute ruler of the jungle.
Stone Ocean
Member
It would be completely meaningless. Elise's power does not come from being able to mitigate a bunch of damage from jungle mobs with her passive.
Hell, need more than the new passive if that's what they want to do. Think of all the DPS mages - Ryze, Cass, Swain, Karthus, etc. They generally either have one of 1.) spamable on-click abilities which always connect on the target or 2.) a toggable/very high duration constant damage spell. Lissandra has neither.
Lissandra as a bursty play maker (e.g. Twisted Fate) is way more interesting in regards to what her kit currently is.
zkylon said:
Agreed.
i like her versatility, you can play her however you want and react to the game unlike many other champions because she has enough cc and lockdown to make assassination with dfg, initiation with zhonyas or kiting with athenes work
that makes her special and is my favorite part about the champion. this nerfs her waveclear and potentially removes the option to go dfg.
you're still a squishy low range mage with one time mobility
awesome
wat
do we really want all midlanes at worlds to be ziggs vs xerath? or at the game itself
Maybe competitive.. solo queue doesn't have her nearly as dominant.
Stone Ocean
Member
Solo Q is not the basis for this change, naturally.
It would be better than having Syndra/Ahri miss all their skillshots but DFG + faceroll = instaburst tanks,
Tizoc
Member
I am liking that Twitch buff.
what are you talking about dood
syndra and ahri are like two of the less facerolly champions in the game
we'll see
i don't think this'll prevent those things but i like the sense of justice it gives to us victims
Yeah. It's kind of unfortunate. The Q range nerf is even bigger than the AA range nerf imo. AA range is only for red buff application and maybe a couple last hits.
I'd be interested to see the algorithm for determining feeding.
You can still play her however you want. You are overreacting if you think a .2 AP nerf to one ability is going to wreck her kit.
Look at where the game is and is moving right now. Try to assess how foolish it is to say her wave clear is being hurt when the safe tool she has for that is going to be up more often. Nobody cares about Lissandra as a burst mage, having the opportunity to become a reliable AP laner with strong wave clear and heavy amounts of CC is ideal right now.
"Hi, I'm Syndra. I can miss all of my skillshots but as long as I press DFG + R and even ignite, they're dead!'
Pre-nerf Ahri was OP because of DFG. She would just DFG and use her W + R spells to nuke people.
Stone Ocean
Member
Syndra isn't killing anyone with raw ult unless she is stupid fed.
Hell you don't even get DFG unless you're stupid fed.
Pre nerf Ahri is a thing of the past.
Hell you don't even get DFG unless you're stupid fed.
Pre nerf Ahri is a thing of the past.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
if u miss all ur spells with syndra, u arent killing anyone with dfg+r
you're not wrong, i'm not saying lissandra will be shit or anything, i'm saying one playstyle of hers got noticeably nerfed (her damage was already low enough that this might be enough to kill dfg, tho ofc tests are needed) and that i don't like having less options
she never was the best assassin but i'm not buying nashors tooth, it's a valid way of playing her (i was so happy when i saw faker go dfg first on her), and in a game where you build the same every single match i really appreciate how lizzy is different
i wouldn't be surprised if she shows up on competitive as a support or top laner and that becomes her new identity
whoop de doo
dood, i'm being nice here, you clearly know nothing about these champions so just accept you're wrong and we can move on
I thought that was his gimmick?
its like when lucian got nerfed
Seriously though, Lissandra should not exist as a burst mage. It creates a binary dynamic to her gameplay where she's reaching a point of getting to be able to enter the battle and delete someone without their reaction at all being a relevant concern. It's forever+1 ago but this was our Treeline philosophy with Lissandra: Deleting people on engage was a thing. Having that kind of gameplay is really unhealthy in general.
DAMAGE PER SPHERE: 90 / 135 / 180 (+ 20% AP)
MINIMUM DAMAGE (3 SPHERES): 270 / 405 / 540 (+ 60% AP)
MAXIMUM DAMAGE (7 SPHERES): 630 / 975 / 1260 (+ 140% AP)
+ DFG: Unique: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum health in magic damage and applies the debuff, Doom. Doom amplifies all magic damage that champion takes by 20% for 4 seconds. 60 second cooldown (750 range).
So let's say Syndra has 600 AP late game. She'll be doing 1260 + 600 (+240) which equals 2100 damage. Add in the 15% max HP damage nuke and the 20% damage from DFG, she can easily burst down a squishy.
I'm not arguing she's OP because she has clear strengths and weaknesses (however her E feels really wonky), I'm just saying. She's not gonna be bursting full tank Mundo or anything.
MINIMUM DAMAGE (3 SPHERES): 270 / 405 / 540 (+ 60% AP)
MAXIMUM DAMAGE (7 SPHERES): 630 / 975 / 1260 (+ 140% AP)
+ DFG: Unique: Deals 15% of target champion's maximum health in magic damage and applies the debuff, Doom. Doom amplifies all magic damage that champion takes by 20% for 4 seconds. 60 second cooldown (750 range).
So let's say Syndra has 600 AP late game. She'll be doing 1260 + 600 (+240) which equals 2100 damage. Add in the 15% max HP damage nuke and the 20% damage from DFG, she can easily burst down a squishy.
I'm not arguing she's OP because she has clear strengths and weaknesses (however her E feels really wonky), I'm just saying. She's not gonna be bursting full tank Mundo or anything.
Stone Ocean
Member
Ok now you must be trolling
You realize how much effort and hoops you have to go through to keep 4 spheres alive? Have you ever played Syndra?
You realize how much effort and hoops you have to go through to keep 4 spheres alive? Have you ever played Syndra?
Well, the ultimate is pretty short range and she has no mobility at all so there's that.
Yea, I know. All I'm saying is that she can miss her skillshots and burst a squishy lol.
I can buy the argument that Lissandra shouldn't be primiarly a burst mage (although I think that's the most enjoyable way to play her at present) but the problem which I'm going to reiterate is the she doesn't have the tools to be a DPS mage either unless the passive change comes through.
- Status