theworkflow
Banned
I am new here but I would like to learn Japanese. Anybody here to help me. I would like to grab learning material like books, or handouts
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Learning Japanese |OT2| Love in the Time of コロナちゃん
- Thread starter mango drank
- Start date
Shaqazooloo
Member
Started learning some Japanese about a week or two ago, I've only done Hiragana so far and finishing Katakana. I'm gonna try and memorize the characters for a little bit because theirs a few I keep forgetting then ill move on to Kanji. Haven't tried learning actual words though, I figure its best to get familiar with the characters first.
Hal.
Member
Welcome, grasshoppers. I think I put some angry no bs learning Japanese guides earlier on in the thread. Would recommend starting there!
Lethal01
Member
For learning pure vocab strarting pretty much anywhere is fine when you are just starting, especially for nouns. It's honestly near impossible to fuck up teaching that in means dog or neko means cat.
One you know about a hundred in a week or two. I say just start reading stuff online get a add on for your browser that translates things on mouse over. Or watching Japanese media that has Japanese subtitles to look up. Obviously make sure you pause and understand 90% of what's being said. No such thing as just soaking the language in.
For grammar, I really don't think there are options better than this video series... You will have to deal with a very rough sounding voice from the teacher and an ugly anime avatar, but it's far better than reading some of the nonsense BS you see in many textbooks or online guides. Force yourself through it and get it over with.
Keep listening and reading content you're actually interested in while looking up meanings and using a custom anki deck for words you think you need help to memorize.
Nothing else to it, it's a two-step process.
Watch that series to quickly learn the structure, then learn all your Japanese by actually needing it to understand the things you are interacting with.
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mango drank
Member
I can't tell whether learning to write out kanji makes a difference in remembering them, in the long run. Last year, whenever I'd learn a new kanji, I'd learn to write it out, stroke order and everything. Occasionally I'd write out a bunch of random kanji from memory, for practice. It was useful for remembering them. Maybe stroke order doesn't matter, but cementing what radicals make up each kanji was a huge help.
I took a long break from learning Japanese, but lately I've been getting back into it. I noticed I've forgotten how to write tons of the kanji I learned last year. I can still recognize them when I'm studying for the most part, but that's because of context, and because I know that I'm reviewing old material. But if I were to see some of these out in the wild, I wouldn't be sure whether I was seeing the kanji I'd already learned, or similar-but-different ones. Case in point: recently I saw 宛 somewhere, and I thought, "what does a bowl have to do with anything?" Then I looked it up, and realized the kanji I already knew for "bowl" was slightly different: 碗. Did I forget it just because I'd taken a long break from learning, and I would've forgotten it regardless? Or did learning to write it out last year end up making zero difference in terms of recall, in the end?
I took a long break from learning Japanese, but lately I've been getting back into it. I noticed I've forgotten how to write tons of the kanji I learned last year. I can still recognize them when I'm studying for the most part, but that's because of context, and because I know that I'm reviewing old material. But if I were to see some of these out in the wild, I wouldn't be sure whether I was seeing the kanji I'd already learned, or similar-but-different ones. Case in point: recently I saw 宛 somewhere, and I thought, "what does a bowl have to do with anything?" Then I looked it up, and realized the kanji I already knew for "bowl" was slightly different: 碗. Did I forget it just because I'd taken a long break from learning, and I would've forgotten it regardless? Or did learning to write it out last year end up making zero difference in terms of recall, in the end?
I guess I'll make my hundredth attempt at learning Japanese since I have plenty of time right now. I think I'll make a weekly goal and update on neogaf and maybe a personal blog. Starting out strong right off the bat? 300 vocab words by April 3rd and 50 kanji. Vocab will be a breeze since this isn't my first time but Kanji will be iffy. But hey not working right now so I've got time.
Porcile
Member
Yes, it is extremely useful and productive to know how to write kanji. If you can write kanji you will be able to read people's handwriting much more easily, you will remember vocabulary more easily, you will not have have the same recognition problems when reading similar kanji, and believe it or not you will be able to write Japanese by hand. It is also not difficult to learn how to write since the base radicals get used over and over. Admittedly I am not great at writing off the top of my head, but show me any kanji I can probably write it with correct stroke order.
Shaqazooloo
Member
Any advice on learning kanji? I feel learning the radicals isn't super helpful but it seems like it's the best way? I've been off and on with it trying to figure out how I should do it.
Any video or lesson recommendations?
Any video or lesson recommendations?
kamkamkam
Member
Amazon.com: Remembering the Kanji 1: A Complete Course on How Not to Forget the Meaning and Writing of Japanese Characters: 8601400140734: Heisig, James W.: Books
Amazon.com: Remembering the Kanji 1: A Complete Course on How Not to Forget the Meaning and Writing of Japanese Characters: 8601400140734: Heisig, James W.: Books
www.amazon.com
welp failed my challenge but I only studied for like 5 hours for the whole week. Almost learned all of the kanji but the vocab portion never even touched. Next weeks goal is to double the numbers. So 100 kanji and 600 vocab. I'm not worried about the vocab that much but the kanji will require a good amount of study time. Plus that 5 hours I did study was very distracted studying so I should be able to do a lot more if I focus.
Shaqazooloo
Member
I think I've been making decent progress, still having trouble with Kanji but I've been learning words and trying to get an understanding of the Grammer.
Finally got around to downloading Anki to try and learn some Kanji as well as some other apps that might help.
Are their any podcasts that can help me with vocabulary and Grammer?
Finally got around to downloading Anki to try and learn some Kanji as well as some other apps that might help.
Are their any podcasts that can help me with vocabulary and Grammer?
Still studying... I've figured that using my ipad japanese vocab app wasn't as effective as I would have liked so I went back to my hand written vocab cards. Making those cards take so much time to do especially when I'm trying to be as quick as possible. But I can go front or back on the cards when review and it is easier to focus on words I'm having more difficulty with. I still haven't touched any kanji though. I'm saving that for a month or 2 from now and focusing on vocab and relearning hiragana and katakana.
I really should try and make vocab cards for Japanese music and tv shows. (problem is the only Japanese thing I've been immersed in is godzilla movies
)
I really should try and make vocab cards for Japanese music and tv shows. (problem is the only Japanese thing I've been immersed in is godzilla movies
)
Shaqazooloo
Member
Still learning bit by bit. Been listening to some Japanese content and can recognize some words or gist of a sentence. Need a bit of time to process what native speakers are saying but feels good to be able to notice words that I know.
no idea, but it is kinda shocking how many folks in this thread has been banned.
Porcile
Member
RIP weebs.
Hal.
Member
Please ban this sick filth known as Porcile
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TaylorSwiftFan
Member
Reached Level 13 in wanikani last week.
Never even heard of wanikani.
Hal.
Member
Faust
Perpetually Tired
Slowly working my way through Hiragana. Been super lazy about studying it. Trying to be able to write everything by hand as my end-goal and a few of them I keep forgetting. Got the baseline, K, S, T, and N down pat now. Going to try and smack my head against this wall until I have them all memorized by hand by the end of the month.
Also trying to remember at least one Kanji a day.
Also trying to remember at least one Kanji a day.
You'd have to find it first in my pile of hundreds of anime dvds.
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Shaqazooloo
Member
I kind of hate how numbers change into different words if counting things. Makes it confusing.
Porcile
Member
As a beginner you only really have to think when to use つ、こ、and まい really.
Well kinda slowed down a little. Honestly just been sticking with duolingo for a bit. I do like the fact that it makes you repeatedly go over the hiragana and katakana many times before completing each lesson/crown. I'm hoping that this will be the thing that cements katakana into my brain. I think I'll mix in some kanji learning and creating/ going over some more flashcards while I'm at it. I think I'm going to aim for a weekly goal from now on. I usually would have a monthly goal but I wander off before accomplishing the goal.
I used to love memrise when it was based off how much time you studied versus the number of words you learned. I really would like an app that has goals for length of time spent studying. Since I feel like that would force me to accomplish it every day.
I used to love memrise when it was based off how much time you studied versus the number of words you learned. I really would like an app that has goals for length of time spent studying. Since I feel like that would force me to accomplish it every day.
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Tschumi
Member
Having trouble with katakana? That's rough mate. Can i make a suggestion? Not knowing your story.. i learned hiragana and katakana in a few days, because compared to the rest of Japanese i appreciate how limited the count was
I just want to suggest jumping into the deep end. Get your notebook, write it all out down the side - ア イ ウ エ オ - and a, k, s, t , etc etc across the top, or whatever, and just do it over and over, write it out in black as you remember if, correct with red, cover it up and try again, try to get one more right each time, don't stop until you can recall them all, do it again every few days and do the Duolingo lessons and *boom* it's in your toolbox!
Just keep in mind that it's almost free Japanese, just memorising a few characters completes the whole deal!
(Also helps to go column by column, get all the Ms right, etc)
I definitely recommend starting "wanikani" when you've got those alphabets down.
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I'll probably end up doing that in the end. That is how I learned them originally a long long time ago but for some odd reason katakana just never stuck with me and even now when going through the app I'm still struggling with it and can't recall any of the katakana I learned in the past.Having trouble with katakana? That's rough mate. Can i make a suggestion? Not knowing your story.. i learned hiragana and katakana in a few days, because compared to the rest of Japanese i appreciate how limited the count was
I just want to suggest jumping into the deep end. Get your notebook, write it all out down the side - ア イ ウ エ オ - and a, k, s, t , etc etc across the top, or whatever, and just do it over and over, write it out in black as you remember if, correct with red, cover it up and try again, try to get one more right each time, don't stop until you can recall them all, do it again every few days and do the Duolingo lessons and *boom* it's in your toolbox!
Just keep in mind that it's almost free Japanese, just memorising a few characters completes the whole deal!
(Also helps to go column by column, get all the Ms right, etc)
I definitely recommend starting "wanikani" when you've got those alphabets down.
Hmm, I do think it is a bit more tricky than learning hiragana but it might just be because I learned hiragana first and now you have to learn another alphabet that means the same exact thing.
What killed my learning of Japanese in the past was honestly the kanji. It is what has stopped me multiple times. I really want to just get the language down this year so when I move/travel I don't have to bring the dozens of learning material I've bought over the years.
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Porcile
Member
Kanji is where 99% people fall off for Japanese. It's pretty much do or die in that regard, and I myself spent more than a few years working out how to best to tackle it. Can't really say much but only the motivation I can give is you is if you learn the 2000 or so kanji you will never have any problems learning Japanese or basically anything, to be honest, ever again. Good luck, man.
Tschumi
Member
For me the tough part is the grammar, and the various different forms for everything.. it feels so superfluous and inefficient lol, before Japanese i studied mandarin and German and they're both far easier languages because of their logical grammar.. mandarin especially because it doesn't really have gender or tenses
Wanikani makes kanji pretty straightforward, if not exactly easy... They do it the same way as the "remembering the kanji" book series, but they have different memory devices and are probably cheaper all things considered. Their staggered reviews are really effective..
As for katakana being deceptively difficult, i see where you're coming from and i do slow down when reading, but for me it's more because they're pronouncing foreign words and it's rarely very well selected, so it takes a moment to understand what they're taking about lol.. soft drink is ソフト, so fu to, not sofuto dorinku or anything.. i get blank stares when i ask for a "pizZa man" pizza bun, but if i change it to "pisa man" they say "ooooh".. grinds my gears lol
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Shaqazooloo
Member
I've been making some decent progress I think. Been using JapanesePod101 for about half a year now, they've helped me understand the Grammer, different forms of words easier and what the particles do.
I've also been subscribing to more Japanese youtubers and looking at Japanese comments to search some words/Kanji.
Not super confident in my sentence making but I think I can do some very basic stuff.
I've also been subscribing to more Japanese youtubers and looking at Japanese comments to search some words/Kanji.
Not super confident in my sentence making but I think I can do some very basic stuff.
Tams
Gold Member
JFC, what is that avatar and voice?! Think I'm going to have nightmares. No one should suffer through that.
I recommend buying Human Japanese, both beginner and intermediate. Satori Reader, their advanced courses/stories is great, but a subscription and a little expensive. The grammar guides are great but still a work in progress (what is available is great, with great explanations and lots of examples sentences to get a feel for grammar points). The stories are meh at best, but are essentially graded readers.
For vocabulary, I haven't found anything exceptional. I use Memrise but it's only okay. Anki is pretty powerful, but can get a bit much; and is also a bit of a pain to manage. Some common word decks for Anki should be enough, and after that either make your own vocab book or deck from your reading/watching/etc.
There's also Bunpo (not Bunpro) that is good for quick grammar practice.
For kanji, the app Kanji Study is hands down the best. Fantastic UI design. Android only. Book wise, Basic Kanki Book Vol. 1 & 2 are great - pretty much no filler.
If you're just going for a casual approach, then going by any sources order will be fine. If you're serious, then I suggest trying to get a lot of radicals memorised as they will help a lot later. You do pick them up anyway, but it takes time. For a serious approach, I suggest 20 kanji a day, with reviews every week (ideally go over the previous day's first).
For media:
Yotsuba&! is a great manga to start with once you've got the basics down. There are some good guides to it too. Children's manga is great as well. If you're up for it, children's picture books and anime are good practice too.
NHK Easy News and Todai: Easy Japanese are good for news. TangoRisto is sadly dead.
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Tams
Gold Member
Yeah, the problem with that is a lot of your vocabularly will be specialised. For karate at least, a lot of the terms they use aren't even used in daily life to describe the same actions. I think the only useful daily Japanese I got from karate was 'rei', 'sensei', and 1-10.
Artoris
Gold Member
rei is bow sensei is the teacher senpai would be more of a senior class member ichi, ni, san, shi and shi also means death
Welp back at it again for the umpteenth time. A little bit of a slow down(pause) though on the kanji this month and more of a focus on vocabulary. I'm slowly making studying a habit.
I'll still study kanji but just only a small amount each day.
I really want to get this language over with before years end so that I don't have to carry any Japanese books when I travel next year.
On the karate topic. I think the only Japanese we ever used was when they counted. Been so long ago. Never really talked to the head instructor and now I'm curious if he could even speak English outside of the few basic greetings. He had assistants to handle most of the speaking when we transitioned to different exercises. He mostly just fixed our movements by touch and example.
I'll still study kanji but just only a small amount each day.
I really want to get this language over with before years end so that I don't have to carry any Japanese books when I travel next year.
On the karate topic. I think the only Japanese we ever used was when they counted. Been so long ago. Never really talked to the head instructor and now I'm curious if he could even speak English outside of the few basic greetings. He had assistants to handle most of the speaking when we transitioned to different exercises. He mostly just fixed our movements by touch and example.
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names are for friends
Member
Reading kanji (and general vocab) is for real the easiest part of learning Japanese, because you can do it in a rote, repetitive kind of way. Learning grammar especially to the degree of listening comprehension is hard
Lol never say this. You're going to take the next few years and even after that you're going to basically suck. This is the way of learning Japanese
Lol never say this. You're going to take the next few years and even after that you're going to basically suck. This is the way of learning Japanese
That is still the plan to go as hard as possible and learn as much of this language as possible. Studying a couple of hours after work and listening to my recorded vocab studies during work.
Porcile
Member
Expressing yourself and your ideas in a meaningful way rather than just repeating phrases and sentences you have picked up, is definitely a 5-10 year job. But I think enough Japanese to be able to travel around and get by can definitely be done in 6 months if you focus on the Japanese you are likely to encounter on your trip.
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I'm not planning on living there or speaking to folks. I just want to be able to understand what I'm hearing and reading. They say you need to learn 10,000 words so that is my goal, plus anything I hear in a song or tv show.
Tams
Gold Member
Just learning 10,000 words isn't enough. It certainly helps as you can work out grammar from context, but studying grammar is going to really help too. And that includes set phrases, especially so as often they are exceptions to rules.
grammar is going to be a more casual thing for now. The vocab, kanji, and phrases I hear will be my main focus for now, and I plan to slowly go over the grammar over these few months.
Porcile
Member
10,000 words is enough to understand and enjoy a lot. That is still definitely a minimum two year thing though. It just isn't possible to absorb all that in any less amount of time.
Absorption/completely committing it to memory is the thing I'm most worried about. I know in the past i've went too fast and not studied nowhere near enough for it to stick. I think I might have a way for me to absorb more new vocab but I'm still testing it out. I'll know in a few weeks. I still don't have a gameplan for kanji though.
edit: still studying. Didn't think it had already been 2 weeks though since I mentioned it on here. Seems I'm a little behind. Things are still going and working on the absorption/committing it to memory since I'm studying a large number of new words a day. My method that I'm trying out is recording some of my studies the day before and listening to them while I can at work for a couple of hours and then studying after work for a few hours as well. I'd like it if I was pretty much listening and studying for at least 8 hours a day.
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64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
My only source for this kind of stuff is Duolingo, which is useful but has a hearts system where if you make enough mistakes you can't continue. Is there any other sources for kearning japanese?
It might come off as rushing here, but I want to learn Japanese in 3 years, and have it be sort of second nature to me
It might come off as rushing here, but I want to learn Japanese in 3 years, and have it be sort of second nature to me
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Tams
Gold Member
I'm not the best person to ask (9 years of trying and still a beginner, perhaps just intermediate).
But if you like Duolingo, then there's Memrise. It's been years since I tried Duolingo (back when there Japanese course was new), but it didn't click with me. There's Lingo Deer as well.
Memrise suggests what exercise/drill/game to do next, but you can choose any of them. What vocabulary/sentences/phrases are used is decided by the algorithm (though you can mark words, etc. as difficult). There's a mode where you can practice used the 'difficult words' (ones you got wrong), though you can remove the 'difficult' tag. I highly recommend it.
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Overall, my suggestions are Memrise, Human Japanese (Beginner and Intermediate) then Satori Reader, and the Android app Kanji Study (by Chase Coburn). Takoboto is probably the best dictionary app, though Akebi is good too. Some simple manga are good too. Yotsuba&! is a great start. Don't be afraid to read stuff like Doraemon and Anpanman though; no shame in that.
Easy Japanese News (TODAI) is now the best news reader app. The NHK News Web Easy (stupid new name) website is a bit better though.
Basic Kanji Book is probably the best textbook series for kanji. If you're going for JLPT, then the Shin Kanzen master series is hands down the best.
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There's also Anki, if that's your jam. Kanji Study, Takoboto and Akebi all support export to Anki to make cards. And if you make your own, you'll certainly learn faster. But it's a right faff and I don't recommend it. Free though, as long as you aren't on iOS.