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Left 4 Dead 2 |OT| The South Rises Again
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
- Start date
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I dunno, the gameplay felt fairly shit as well in VS. A lot of getting caught on random shit as Infected. The map flow is also pretty bad (Valve is masterful when it comes to having you naturally find your way through an environment).jambo said:
Bought L4D2 on sale a while back, hated it cause it felt consolised to hell and back and its performance was horrible.
Redownloaded on a nudge by a friend, near constant 60fps + awesome gameplay and I have only played the campaigns. I wish there were a way to make the guns smaller on my screen, the deagle is massive.
Redownloaded on a nudge by a friend, near constant 60fps + awesome gameplay and I have only played the campaigns. I wish there were a way to make the guns smaller on my screen, the deagle is massive.
Stallion Free said:
These complaints would all be valid for 2 Evil Eyes (terrible navigation, problems spawning or attacking as infected in VS, etc). I don't know if they're valid for Cold Stream. For starters, the navigation is much, much better and we didn't get lost at all while playing this campaign. It was just pretty damn hard. As for technical problems, it's a beta, so I'm sure a lot of it will be fixed eventually. I haven't tried this in VS yet though.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Just being better than 2 Evil Eyes (if that's the map I think I play... *shudders*) isn't enough. I have dumped at least 50 hours into each Valve map and this is nowhere near that level. We missed the way we were suppose to go a number of times. And somehow I don't think the visuals will get polished. I mean the rocks look so awkward all over the stream, the bumpmapping on them looks weird, and there were really weirdly colored reeds in a bunch of places (they stuck out from the color scheme like a sore thumb)duckroll said:
I Hate Mountains on the other hand, with a bit of beta testing to polish out VS, could easily pass for a Valve map. If you haven't played it I highly recommend it.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
The atmosphere was stellar, something that both of these campaigns completely lack.duckroll said:
I love IHM, but I disagree. A lot of the atmosphere was excellent, but at points it becomes noticeably uneven (such as the sewers and underground caverns, and the discordant use of HL2 assets throughout the campaign). To be frank, it was a very "safe" campaign, excellent, but safe. Standing up against the other Valve campaigns, it doesn't really have its own voice or character, from both the perspective of atmosphere and gameplay.Stallion Free said:
Neither does 2 evil eyes, which was highly derivative of Swamp Fever, but there was a glimmer of potential in the latter half (the gator park finale in particular was one of the more unique sets I've seen in a custom campaign, it was gorgeous too).
Cold Stream, however, has a far better chance of standing on its own next to the Valve campaigns. It isn't particularly polished at this moment, but it has a lot of potential and has a solid foundation to build on. What the author created by the end of 2 evil eyes is a pretty solid testament to his ability to make something fairly unique within constraints, and with the limited assets he's been given. The way the stream forms the backbone of the level, how the path meanders from and back to it, the introduction of infrastructure that revolves around this singular geographical feature, these are all solid things to build upon. A lot could be done with the lighting and other atmospheric tweaks, but that is something that can come later. Right now, the campaign has a solid theme and I'm confident the author and Valve will make the most of it.
Goddamn acid water had me curled up like a babyduckroll said:
But yeah, that was a clever idea, even if the execution needed a metric shitton of work. I really liked the rainstorm in the graveyard section later on, especially falling into a caved in section unawares and making your way through the underground, with shafts to the sky overhead.
I appreciate the creativity of unique set pieces in campaigns, because it makes them more memorable. It's very much the same with Valve's own campaigns, where the ones I like most are the ones where almost every map has a defining moment which makes it stand apart from the others.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Have either of you played it in VS?
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I'm pretty sure opinions will change once you try (Cold Stream) in VS.
7 out of 8 of us last night hated it and that one person wasn't part of our core group and based on the stuff he was saying last night, he has shit taste.
7 out of 8 of us last night hated it and that one person wasn't part of our core group and based on the stuff he was saying last night, he has shit taste.
I Hate Mountains VS - It worked, but we didn't really like it enough unanimously to play it much. Like I said, I felt it was generic, and it wasn't really all that fun.
2 Evil Eyes VS - Pretty broken in places, but VERY popular. Most of us liked it, because it was wacky, and had some really evil moments where Infected can really take advantage of.
Cold Stream VS - Have not played, will try this weekend probably.
Edit: Again, I'm not defending it in VS. I'm defending it as a beta campaign. I feel for what it is right now, it's pretty solid and was very enjoyable (except when the finale doesn't work) in co-op campaign. I expect it to be semi-broken in VS though.
2 Evil Eyes VS - Pretty broken in places, but VERY popular. Most of us liked it, because it was wacky, and had some really evil moments where Infected can really take advantage of.
Cold Stream VS - Have not played, will try this weekend probably.
Edit: Again, I'm not defending it in VS. I'm defending it as a beta campaign. I feel for what it is right now, it's pretty solid and was very enjoyable (except when the finale doesn't work) in co-op campaign. I expect it to be semi-broken in VS though.
Hated it because of the aforementioned geometry issues, I take it?Stallion Free said:
I honestly don't see how playing it in VS would change my opinion in regards to its potential compared to a fixed quantity like IHM. For good or worse, it was the spitting image of Death Toll, made little use of the titular mountains, and played it entirely safe with gameplay. I won't comment on its value in VS for infected play, but I'm speaking in more general terms here. The IHM guys could have done a lot more with their theme.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Massive geometry issues, poor map flow and severe ugliness.Botolf said:
Playing it safe seems like a better alternative to those things.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Just did a quick VS game on it and I found it fucking annoying to try and spawn as an infected. I was hidden in foliage, miles back, but it wouldn't let me spawn because the enemy could see me apparently. Big issue that needs to be fixed.
Geometry issues: This is the sort of thing testing is intended to weed out. Wouldn't expect to see much of those issues survive the full release.Stallion Free said:
Poor map flow: I'm speaking from the survivor side of things, but this isn't as big a problem as it seems. Even without expert use of lighting and props to add context and subtle cues, our team found the path ahead without much trouble at all.
The player path itself is inventive. Once more, the stream forms the backbone of the level's main path, but the level funnels survivors away from it, before leading them back to it. This is something it shares in common with many Valve maps, survivors are frequently diverted off the main path into side areas, before once again finding the main. Once the visual cue-ing is tightened up more, the player path will be more evident (for my own part, I made some suggestions in the map's forum to that effect).
Severe ugliness: Eye of the beholder and all that, but visual polish isn't as unlikely as you think. It's also one of the last things you nail down for release, not the first. And the mapper definitely knows how to put together a map that looks good.
It isn't much of an alternative at all. If you do play it safe, testing will still reveal a long list of serious issues (even if it turns out fewer of them in all). IHM had its own fair share of issues, one in particular made it to release and was game-breaking (remember the bug with the chopper debris? survs could get trapped and die quite easily).
Cold Stream's taking some risks and has been put out there to be scrutinized by the l4d community at large. So long as that input and the input of Valve keeps flowing in and is heeded, the map will be a worthy addition. It's sitting in a position of opportunity that neither 2 Evil Eyes or I Hate Mountains had.
Played a quick match of advanced campaign with pubs last night and noticed it was spawning hordes and si way more quickly than usual. Not sure if that was the server or the campaign though. I was up to 550 common kills in the first 3 maps alone.
I like the campaign a lot but it seems like it would be somewhat difficult in versus which is good. While it clearly has issues, i think releasing it in an unfinished state is a good idea because people will find exploits, bugs, and problems now so that they can be patched for the final release.
I like the campaign a lot but it seems like it would be somewhat difficult in versus which is good. While it clearly has issues, i think releasing it in an unfinished state is a good idea because people will find exploits, bugs, and problems now so that they can be patched for the final release.
duckroll said:
I'll be honest, finding the way out of the finale is a huge bitch and if the tank had guarded it rather than chasing you I never even would have seen the chopper; when we went through 2-man before that I actually thought the woods were the edge of the map, then thought the downed chopper had to be the edge.
Maybe it could drop signal flares or something.
afternoon delight
Member
Played 3 of the 4 Cold Stream levels last night on Advanced. Loved the use of light in many situations, as well as most of the gun spawns being singular. Yeah, geometry on the rocks needs to be sorted out, there's a few invisible walls, and the textures/graphics are obviously incomplete.
HOWEVER, I can't wait to see what its like with the AI Director in full-function-mode. Right now it feels like too many standard sets of spawns, but I guess that's intentional as well. Hard, but in the good way.
Would people be interested in some screen caps of a few interesting/pivotal places? Or rather wait to see it in finished glory?
Feels great to be back in some serious forests.
Edit: Loved the earlier "canyon" funneling points where they just swarm in on you from above. The horde gets really fun in this level sometimes.
HOWEVER, I can't wait to see what its like with the AI Director in full-function-mode. Right now it feels like too many standard sets of spawns, but I guess that's intentional as well. Hard, but in the good way.
Would people be interested in some screen caps of a few interesting/pivotal places? Or rather wait to see it in finished glory?
Feels great to be back in some serious forests.
Edit: Loved the earlier "canyon" funneling points where they just swarm in on you from above. The horde gets really fun in this level sometimes.
BuddhaRockstar
Member
Nabs said:My team had a lot of fun figuring out the new Map in VS last night.
sorry stall
Yeah it gets a thumbs up from me- awesome atmosphere (the water gushing down the stairwell may be the coolest single part of any L4D2 map), and some interesting ambush points for infected. The only thing it needs is clearer directions on where to go, a couple times we got lost because there's a lack of clear landmarks.
afternoon delight
Member
Am I the only person who didn't play it on VS? :lol
I just finished a campaign game!afternoon delight said:
The campaign was alright but a bit unclear at points. When the Slo-mo kicked in I didn't know where to look at first. I went like: Lag? Oh slowmotion. OH SNAP THE
BRIDGE
Is there a L4D2 GAF group? I still play quite often.
BlazeHedgehog
Member
afternoon delight said:
I didn't play it on Versus! I found it to be confusing and poorly laid out. Posted my impressions on Valve's forums as feedback and was almost immediately yelled at.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
This map is horrendous.
Edit: why did Valve bother with this?
Edit: why did Valve bother with this?
afternoon delight
Member
You have a Swanson avatar, from one of his best moments, and you like L4D2. Do you play expert/advanced realism runs? East Coast time?
People hate Typo Stream? I found it to be a ton of fun with some interesting ideas, namely the tank running off of a tree branch and smacking rocks. I was also drunk and playing campaign with friends so maybe todays attempt at getting past the second piece will be less enjoyable.
afternoon delight
Member
PMd you mah steamID, I play probably three times a week at least. Civilization V has been stealing my L4D2 time lately.I do, indeed, I do. I do! No
Dr Stabbingworth
Member
I'm somewhat confused as to why this particular map was chosen to be an "official" map over some of the better user made campaigns, but I didn't hate it nor find the path confusing, despite doing realism the first time.
The finale was sort of annoying, although I love guantlet finales (L4D1/Hard Rain finales FTL). I seemed to keep getting stuck on stuff, and combined with the unending zombies, it just felt wrong. Like something was always pulling on me. You don't get that feeling on the Bridge (Parish); maybe it's due to the cars littered all over the place versus the wide open stream. I'm not really a big fan of the wide open tunnel that is the stream. Sort of defeats the pathfinding aspect.
By the way, the run to the chopper is easy, you just need to retain one of the bile bombs that you get literally right before that forest clearing. I wouldn't even bother fighting the tank (I guess you can tankbait the leader, or drop back a little if you're the leader).
I know a lot of you play with friends, but all of my complaints, besides the slow motion, boiled down to an influx of shitty players trying out the new map. Yeah, it's probably harder than the other 8 maps. But the number of restarts due to idiots not clearing specials was really annoying. The other maps have specials too! It's not really new...
The finale was sort of annoying, although I love guantlet finales (L4D1/Hard Rain finales FTL). I seemed to keep getting stuck on stuff, and combined with the unending zombies, it just felt wrong. Like something was always pulling on me. You don't get that feeling on the Bridge (Parish); maybe it's due to the cars littered all over the place versus the wide open stream. I'm not really a big fan of the wide open tunnel that is the stream. Sort of defeats the pathfinding aspect.
By the way, the run to the chopper is easy, you just need to retain one of the bile bombs that you get literally right before that forest clearing. I wouldn't even bother fighting the tank (I guess you can tankbait the leader, or drop back a little if you're the leader).
I know a lot of you play with friends, but all of my complaints, besides the slow motion, boiled down to an influx of shitty players trying out the new map. Yeah, it's probably harder than the other 8 maps. But the number of restarts due to idiots not clearing specials was really annoying. The other maps have specials too! It's not really new...
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Teknoman said:
Don't be too hard on yourself, the update happened yesterday.
Played Cold Stream last night.
Damn aside from a few things like getting stuck behind rocks and not figuring out where to go I think this may be my favorite campaign next to Hard Rain.
Loved:
-The single spawn weapons
-The flooded stairwell/ deadly waterfall
-The boulder crashing down just before the first Tank
-The slo-mo
-The whole bridge sequence
Hated:
-Getting stuck behind rocks
-Many times not having a clear idea of where to go
-No new survivor banter
Damn aside from a few things like getting stuck behind rocks and not figuring out where to go I think this may be my favorite campaign next to Hard Rain.
Loved:
-The single spawn weapons
-The flooded stairwell/ deadly waterfall
-The boulder crashing down just before the first Tank
-The slo-mo
-The whole bridge sequence
Hated:
-Getting stuck behind rocks
-Many times not having a clear idea of where to go
-No new survivor banter
Okay, so I finally played Cold Stream in Versus yesterday, but we couldn't get a full 8 for that campaign. My thoughts regarding the campaign remain unchanged in general (I still think it's good with various nice moments and good thematic hooks), but boy does it suck in Versus. The finale is totally dumb too. It's like a dumb twist to the Parish finale (which is 10000 times better). Thankfully, it seems that they're aware the finale sucks, and will be working on it. There are definitely nice infected moments in Versus, but they're hampered by poor AI flow routes, and a lack of climb points at various areas. At one point, the survivor bots on one team actually got LOST in one of the maps, effectively ending the run for the human players since it was so easy to pick them off before the bots found their way to the right path. Hilarious.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
And now I no longer look crazy.
duckroll said:But isn't that the route you keep teaching us to take?
Bots not teleporting, that's their fault!
Or, you know, it's the map's fault for letting me over there to begin with. I actually think you can skip even more of the level if you run through the fire, lemme go check.
Edit: Nope, invisible walled since when I tried it before.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
Are these visuals more highly polished than Cold Stream's?Botolf said:
demosthenes
Member
edit: nvm