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[Crab Milk Mickey]

Advanced can actually be quite difficult if you're with a team who plays in a very L4D1-esque "let's try and hold a position when really we should be running for the alarm on the third floor" party, to be fair.

Advanced Realism I thought was pretty tough at times and a good alternative to Expert if the latter gets frustrating (i.e. attempting to finish one level for two hours and still failing). In Advanced Vanilla on the other hand you need to get pummeled quite a lot before you even get incapped and ammunition isn't so much of an issue unless you missed an ammo pile or new weapons. Director constantly grants the players health items too.

 

[Shake Appeal]

There must be something he doesn't grasp, like meleeing zombies away, or something else similarly fundamental, because otherwise the game on Easy/Normal largely reduces to "stick together and shoot the things that try to kill you": if you can do those two things, you will easily succeed. But then you said he played a lot of L4D1, so I'm stumped. I mean, Advanced and Expert are harder than they used to be (I'd attribute this mainly to the increased variety of specials and the introduction of melee fatigue in campaign), but not unfairly so, and Easy/Normal feel just as cheap as ever.

And while I've played it a lot (more than anything else this gen, probably, across both games and both platforms), I am by no means super pro.

 

[Zzoram]

There must be something he doesn't grasp, like meleeing zombies away, or something else similarly fundamental, because otherwise the game on Easy/Normal largely reduces to "stick together and shoot the things that try to kill you": if you can do those two things, you will easily succeed. But then you said he played a lot of L4D1, so I'm stumped. I mean, Advanced and Expert are harder than they used to be (I'd attribute this mainly to the increased variety of specials and the introduction of melee fatigue in campaign), but not unfairly so, and Easy/Normal feel just as cheap as ever.

And while I've played it a lot (more than anything else this gen, probably, across both games and both platforms), I am by no means super pro.

My guess is he failed to figure out how to use melee weapons against hordes, and maybe he was using terrible guns the whole time and trying to use his melee with fatigue. Also, maybe his team sucked at killing specials and took so long to do it that another one was there before they could, hence him feeling like they'd always appear 2+ at a time when they might not be.

 

[Shake Appeal]

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/20/review-left-4-dead-2/

Wow.

I played the game both pre- and post-release with six different gamers, all of whom had experienced the original (and some of whom were really good at it). Playing on Normal difficulty, we were unable to beat a single campaign before opting to readjust the difficulty to Easy. On Easy, we still took quite a licking, in two cases deciding to just quit.

While the game's Easy mode has been made frustrating (albeit passable), the Normal difficulty has replaced fun with frustration for all but the most dedicated, organized teams.

Dude, I fucken bunnyhopped through Dark Carnival on Normal by myself carrying a goddamned gnome while taking a phone call... :lol

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I'm not even a good shooter player. My K/D ratio in every shooter ever released is always on the embarrassing side of 1.0.

I really can't comprehend what must have been going wrong. They can't just be shit.

surely they weren't just holed up in a corner during the crescendo events. that's the only explanation I can think of: an inability to take the on-screen prompts' advice and RUN LIKE HELL when it tells you to.

 

[Brainboy]

I'm not even a good shooter player. My K/D ratio in every shooter ever released is always on the embarrassing side of 1.0.

I really can't comprehend what must have been going wrong. They can't just be shit.

surely they weren't just holed up in a corner during the crescendo events. that's the only explanation I can think of. An inability to take the on-screen prompts advice and RUN LIKE HELL when it tells you to.

This might be it, actually. Sticking together too much, not paying attention to sound cues, and getting taken down by Boomers and Spitters.

Or the alternative, running ahead on your own like there's no tomorrow. :lol

 

[Zzoram]

This might be it, actually. Sticking together too much, not paying attention to sound cues, and getting taken down by Boomers and Spitters.

Or the alternative, running ahead on your own like there's no tomorrow. :lol

I really hope GWJ Podcast revisits the issue next week and addresses it better. He said that he tried L4D2 on PC and found special infected didn't spawn as closely together and that it was easier than the 360 version by a good deal. I still can't believe that he struggled that hard on Easy, even on 360, but that's what he's been saying.

 

[Blue Geezer]

the scavenge game last night was epic

 

[Shake Appeal]

I'm listening to the podcast now. Dude is so mad about the difficulty. :lol

 

[Zzoram]

I'm listening to the podcast now. Dude is so mad about the difficulty. :lol

I think he's mad because he really liked L4D1 and wanted to like L4D2. That's why I don't think he's imagining this problem, and there must be something going on, and I want to know what it could be.

 

[MutFox]

People saying easy is hard?

I was actually racing people to the saferoom on easy using melee weapons only. :lol
It's pretty fun that way

 

[Dark Stalkers]

and i thought i sucked at fpses

 

[Cosmonaut X]

To add to the comments:

My six-year-old daughter loves playing Left 4 Dead (she got into it after seeing me playing it, and enjoys the "safe" fright of the horde and the grotesque special infected, as well as the female characters). She's been playing a bit of L4D2 when I let her on the computer and she's coped perfectly well with most of the levels, although the additional complexity of level layouts in 2 has challenging for her (the added paths, the more complex urban environments etc.)

 

[Zzoram]

To add to the comments:

My six-year-old daughter loves playing Left 4 Dead (she got into it after seeing me playing it, and enjoys the "safe" fright of the horde and the grotesque special infected, as well as the female characters). She's been playing a bit of L4D2 when I let her on the computer and she's coped perfectly well with most of the levels, although the additional complexity of level layouts in 2 has challenging for her (the added paths, the more complex urban environments etc.)

1. WTF why would you let a 6-year old girl play a violent fps game?

2. :lol :lol :lol GWJ guy got owned.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I really hope GWJ Podcast revisits the issue next week and addresses it better. He said that he tried L4D2 on PC and found special infected didn't spawn as closely together and that it was easier than the 360 version by a good deal. I still can't believe that he struggled that hard on Easy, even on 360, but that's what he's been saying.

I own both. Apart from how they control, they are the same (as they were with L4D1). Specials spawn with the same frequency, tanks spawn with the same frequency, the game plays out the same, blah blah, apart from the obvious fact that you play one with a controller and one with keyboard/mouse. There's a slightly different feel as a result, but it's nuanced. The versions are effectively identical.

When this guy says it "doesn't have console controls", it makes me laugh. It doesn't have autoaim, that's it. What's more, the controls are the same as they were in L4D1, which he claims to be good at. He just comes off as defensive and shrill.

I want this guy's gamertag, so I can help walk him through a campaign.

 

[xrich]

People saying easy is hard?

I was actually racing people to the saferoom on easy using melee weapons only. :lol
It's pretty fun that way

even better in VS

 

[Shoogoo]

I forget who on GWJ Podcast complained about this, but he said on 2 separate podcasts that L4D2 is the biggest disappointment of the year because he can't handle Easy on 360. He said he can't beat a campaign on Easy without a dozen deaths.

My girlfriend who's average at fps played Dead central alone on easy yesterday and beat it in 1h10. She ten tried Hard Rain or Swamp (not sure) on normal because she thought easy was too easy. She died once.

This guy must play like a bitch on crack

 

[Shake Appeal]

I think the most likely explanation is camping gauntlet crescendos. I honestly can't think of anything else that would account for his difficulties, if what he said is true and he played the original on Advanced quite a bit.

But as it is the review is turning people off the game and losing Valve sales, for no real reason that I can comprehend. He said he was going to try and get in touch with them; I hope he does, and I hope they walk him through a game or two and find out what he's doing wrong.

 

[Zzoram]

Don't get me wrong, I really like GWJ Podcast, I'm just so confused by how someone can find Easy impossibly hard.

 

[deleted]

I can understand if people are having trouble on advanced. Atrium in Dead Center isn´t easy to get through if you don´t play as an organized team.

Easy one the other hand should be a cakewalk. I tried the L4D1 demo on normal back then and realized that I have to play on advanced or above if I want a little challenge. It´s just not fun for me if you can walk strait through the whole game without dieing. Doesn´t fit the atmosphere of the game...

 

[Cosmonaut X]

1. WTF why would you let a 6-year old girl play a violent fps game?

Because I'm happy that she understands that it is just a game, and that it isn't something she finds upsetting. There's nothing particularly challenging about the content beyond the violence, and she understands that it is pretend and is there to be experienced within the game, not taken out of that context.

She's always supervised - she only ever plays when I'm in the room - and her time on it is limited, and at the first sign of her getting upset, or even frustrated and wound-up (as she occasionally is with other games she plays at times) she would be told to close it down and come away.

If I thought for a moment that it was upsetting her, or that she didn't understand that the violence and fright was pretend - or that it was affecting her in any way - she would be off there like a shot. As it is, I'm happy that she has a limited exposure to it with me to be there to help educate her as to the content and make sure she appreciates it for what it is.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would help to clarify my position

 

[MutFox]

Because I'm happy that she understands that it is just a game, and that it isn't something she finds upsetting. There's nothing particularly challenging about the content beyond the violence, and she understands that it is pretend and is there to be experienced within the game, not taken out of that context.

She's always supervised - she only ever plays when I'm in the room - and her time on it is limited, and at the first sign of her getting upset, or even frustrated and wound-up (as she occasionally is with other games she plays at times) she would be told to close it down and come away.

If I thought for a moment that it was upsetting her, or that she didn't understand that the violence and fright was pretend - or that it was affecting her in any way - she would be off there like a shot. As it is, I'm happy that she has a limited exposure to it with me to be there to help educate her as to the content and make sure she appreciates it for what it is.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would help to clarify my position

I think it's cool

 

[Rahk]

1. WTF why would you let a 6-year old girl play a violent fps game?

2. :lol :lol :lol GWJ guy got owned.

A game that no one, no matter what age, is supposed to play in Australia uncensored, no less. :lol

 

[EarsOfASnake]

Because I'm happy that she understands that it is just a game, and that it isn't something she finds upsetting. There's nothing particularly challenging about the content beyond the violence, and she understands that it is pretend and is there to be experienced within the game, not taken out of that context.

She's always supervised - she only ever plays when I'm in the room - and her time on it is limited, and at the first sign of her getting upset, or even frustrated and wound-up (as she occasionally is with other games she plays at times) she would be told to close it down and come away.

If I thought for a moment that it was upsetting her, or that she didn't understand that the violence and fright was pretend - or that it was affecting her in any way - she would be off there like a shot. As it is, I'm happy that she has a limited exposure to it with me to be there to help educate her as to the content and make sure she appreciates it for what it is.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would help to clarify my position

Wow, someone who understands the concept of games and parenting, I salute you sir!

 

[Zzoram]

Because I'm happy that she understands that it is just a game, and that it isn't something she finds upsetting. There's nothing particularly challenging about the content beyond the violence, and she understands that it is pretend and is there to be experienced within the game, not taken out of that context.

She's always supervised - she only ever plays when I'm in the room - and her time on it is limited, and at the first sign of her getting upset, or even frustrated and wound-up (as she occasionally is with other games she plays at times) she would be told to close it down and come away.

If I thought for a moment that it was upsetting her, or that she didn't understand that the violence and fright was pretend - or that it was affecting her in any way - she would be off there like a shot. As it is, I'm happy that she has a limited exposure to it with me to be there to help educate her as to the content and make sure she appreciates it for what it is.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would help to clarify my position

I guess it's just a bit weird to imagine. I always figured I'd start my future children on games around 5 or 6 years old with NSMB DS/Wii and Mario Kart DS/Wii, somewhat replicating how I started gaming. Then from there move up to RTS/RPG, adventure, and FPS last. I dabbled a bit in FPS as a kid but never seriously started playing them until I was in University. They used to seem mindless to me, and I thought they were dumb.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

I guess it's just a bit weird to imagine. I always figured I'd start my future children on games around 5 or 6 years old with NSMB DS/Wii and Mario Kart DS/Wii, somewhat replicating how I started gaming. Then from there move up to RTS/RPG, adventure, and FPS last. I dabbled a bit in FPS as a kid but never seriously started playing them until I was in University. They used to seem mindless to me, and I thought they were dumb.

What I tend to do is let her pick games based on what she sees me playing and expresses an interest in, and what I think is OK for her. Recently, we've been playing New Super Mario Bros. Wii together, and she's been playing a bit of Twilight Princess (mainly for Epona, I must admit!) and L4D2 in her computer time. If she's interested in something, I try not to shut her down and deny her it, and as L4D2 is the only violent game she plays and I'm happy it's not the violence that is attracting her (although she's not really explained it to me, I suspect the strong female characters and the team feel of the game, together with the safe frights are what appeal to her) I'm comfortable with my decision.

 

[Zzoram]

What I tend to do is let her pick games based on what she sees me playing and expresses an interest in, and what I think is OK for her. Recently, we've been playing New Super Mario Bros. Wii together, and she's been playing a bit of Twilight Princess (mainly for Epona, I must admit!) and L4D2 in her computer time. If she's interested in something, I try not to shut her down and deny her it, and as L4D2 is the only violent game she plays and I'm happy it's not the violence that is attracting her (although she's not really explained it to me, I suspect the strong female characters and the team feel of the game, together with the safe frights are what appeal to her) I'm comfortable with my decision.

Ya that seems reasonable. It's just hard to imagine a 6-year old even being proficient with mouse/keyboard controls. Most kids have quite a bit of trouble with the DS when they're ~4-5 and just starting. Even teenage or adult girls seem super slow to learn how to aim/turn in FPS games on either PC or console, they get super disoriented.

I went to some workplace Halo 3 LAN once and this one girl was looking at the ground walking into a wall the entire time she played. She just couldn't grasp the concept of left hand being movement and right hand controlling view/direction. My sister was pretty awful at CS:S when she tried it a bit out of curiousity one day. She's pretty good at Diablo 2 though.

 

[Amir0x]

Not sure the concept of parenting is letting kids see bad shit just with the parent still in the room, but to each their own. This isn't a parenting thread.

Anyway, I'm not sure how anyone can find easy too hard. Even with L4D2's increased difficulty, it's pretty fucking simple to get through easy blindfolded. We do all types of silly shit on easy game mode.

Even on Advanced game mode, it's perfectly possible to get through all the campaigns in the game with some effort on the 360 version. Hard, but possible.

Expert may very well be near impossible on the 360 though. It's so, so, so fucking hard, you've got to have perfect runs every time and get goddamned graced with the drops around the level. Also, you have to hope everyone has good lag (which is less than a 2% chance on the 360 version using official dedicated, and like 30% chance using hosting local server atm), and if you're not playing with decent players friendly fire kills more often than zombies. Good thing I play with good players, but even they make mistakes. It is possible, although I'm not convinced we'll be able to do the Swamp level or the finale of Parish on Expert.

Expert REALISM on 360 may very well be fucking completely impossible. I don't think they rebalanced the game for a 360 controller in mind. You've got to have the glory of God on your side to be successful I imagine.

 

[Shoogoo]

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS 15

Form a team and beat an enemy team in 4v4 Versus or Scavenge.

This shit's going to be tough to achieve considering that people all leave after a single map when they loose and no randoms can join in to fill the enemy team's seats

 

[Facism]

what the hell at that guy whinging about the difficulty. L4D2 comes with 4 difficulties.

1.Easy
2.Easy
3.Easy
4.Fuck you and drown in a pit of cocks. (drowning in said pit if using realism :< :< )

 

[Macca]

Me and a buddy have been grinding out on expert on 360, just the 2 of us with the bots. Shit is really damn hard. It seems like we put in 3 hours a night, and pass a chapter every 3 nights.

It does all depend on the drops, getting Bile Bombs and Pipe Bombs can really save your ass when it's 5 hits and you're gone. Also, depending on where you get tanks can really change how it plays out. Get a tank in a corridor? You're screwed.

I can't see how it would be difficult on easy however. We ended up just doing a run through that chapter on easy to workout directions, and I don't think we even bothered shooting at the zombies. Even tanks become a joke.

 

[Zzoram]

Me and a buddy have been grinding out on expert on 360, just the 2 of us with the bots. Shit is really damn hard. It seems like we put in 3 hours a night, and pass a chapter every 3 nights.

It does all depend on the drops, getting Bile Bombs and Pipe Bombs can really save your ass when it's 5 hits and you're gone. Also, depending on where you get tanks can really change how it plays out. Get a tank in a corridor? You're screwed.

I can't see how it would be difficult on easy however. We ended up just doing a run through that chapter on easy to workout directions, and I don't think we even bothered shooting at the zombies. Even tanks become a joke.

In L4D1 Easy commons did 1 damage and friendly fire was off. Is that still true in L4D2?

 

[Shake Appeal]

As far as I know, yes.

 

[NotWii]

Because I'm happy that she understands that it is just a game, and that it isn't something she finds upsetting. There's nothing particularly challenging about the content beyond the violence, and she understands that it is pretend and is there to be experienced within the game, not taken out of that context.

She's always supervised - she only ever plays when I'm in the room - and her time on it is limited, and at the first sign of her getting upset, or even frustrated and wound-up (as she occasionally is with other games she plays at times) she would be told to close it down and come away.

If I thought for a moment that it was upsetting her, or that she didn't understand that the violence and fright was pretend - or that it was affecting her in any way - she would be off there like a shot. As it is, I'm happy that she has a limited exposure to it with me to be there to help educate her as to the content and make sure she appreciates it for what it is.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would help to clarify my position

Cute

 

[blackMamba1187]

Can anyone tell me what the green bar/meter and sl: on the left side mean/how to get rid of it? Doesn't show up in dragon age and it wasn't there the last time I played L4D2.

edit: Checked in L4D1 and the bar was there. It wasn't there in borderlands. Must be something with the source-engine.

 

[syllogism]

L4D2 easy difficulty is easy enough to do a solo gnome run while not paying attention to your bots at all. Normal probably as well.

 

[MNC]

Can anyone tell me what the green bar/meter and sl: on the left side mean/how to get rid of it? Doesn't show up in dragon age and it wasn't there the last time I played L4D2.

Seems like SLI. Dunno, are you running in SLI?

 

[blackMamba1187]

Seems like SLI. Dunno, are you running in SLI?

Yup, a 9800gx2.

 

[Vormund]

Yeah it's SLI. Go to the nVidia control panel and up top there is "3d settings"

Click that and you'll see "SLI Visual Indicator". uncheck it.

 

[Sibylus]

Hard Rain 2 is cruel, so very cruel.

Spoiler

But so awesome

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Hard Rain 2 is cruel, so very cruel.

Spoiler

But so awesome

Nothing is crueler than the Swamp Fever finale. NOTHING. Two tanks at once in an area with NO open space to maneuver that doesn't end you up getting stuck against a bush or the house. It is SO FUCKING HARD. And then the boat finally comes and IT'S LIKE A MILE AWAY and but okay it's okay OH NO WAIT HERE'S ANOTHER TANK.

Fucking ridiculous and then you have to start over all the way at the last safe house oh god Swamp Fever so fucking hard Jesus it's so hard.

 

[Zzoram]

Nothing is crueler than the Swamp Fever finale. NOTHING. Two tanks at once in an area with NO open space to maneuver that doesn't end you up getting stuck against a bush or the house. It is SO FUCKING HARD. And then the boat finally comes and IT'S LIKE A MILE AWAY and but okay it's okay OH NO WAIT HERE'S ANOTHER TANK.

Fucking ridiculous and then you have to start over all the way at the last safe house oh god Swamp Fever so fucking hard Jesus it's so hard.

Maybe try saving an adrenaline? Would that help?

 

[Raydeen]

How is everyone finding multiplayer now the whizz and bang of launch day are gone?

Hunter should have been exorcised from the game completely -he's just so forgettable and out of his element in L4D2. In the original he was master of his domain, now his (new) horrible screech barely warrants any concern.

The lack of vertical aspect to the levels is my biggest disappointment - what applies to the Hunter also applies to the Smoker to a degree, the poor soul just isn't as fun in the more horizontal levels of the new game.

 

[syllogism]

I agree with the hunter being rather unwanted, but there are more and better smoker spots than in the first game

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Maybe try saving an adrenaline? Would that help?

Possibly. I made it, but just barely. Adrenaline probably won't help me survive a Tank attack at +13.

 

[Zzoram]

I agree with the hunter being rather unwanted, but there are more and better smoker spots than in the first game

They should've modified the Hunter more.

 

[Raydeen]

I agree with the hunter being rather unwanted, but there are more and better smoker spots than in the first game

I find The Smoker is just too easy to kill as well. Plenty of times in the old one, you'd get smoked, attempt to shoot him but wouldn't be able to get off enough rounds as he pulls you. Now I'm finding I'm killing a Smoker during a pull attempt about 90% of the time (expert).

 

[syllogism]

I find The Smoker is just too easy to kill as well. Plenty of times in the old one, you'd get smoked, attempt to shoot him but wouldn't be able to get off enough rounds as he pulls you. Now I'm finding I'm killing a Smoker during a pull attempt about 90% of the time (expert).

That's just imagination

 

[Zzoram]

I find The Smoker is just too easy to kill as well. Plenty of times in the old one, you'd get smoked, attempt to shoot him but wouldn't be able to get off enough rounds as he pulls you. Now I'm finding I'm killing a Smoker during a pull attempt about 90% of the time (expert).

Maybe your aim is just better with day time lighting.

 

[Sibylus]

Nothing is crueler than the Swamp Fever finale. NOTHING. Two tanks at once in an area with NO open space to maneuver that doesn't end you up getting stuck against a bush or the house. It is SO FUCKING HARD. And then the boat finally comes and IT'S LIKE A MILE AWAY and but okay it's okay OH NO WAIT HERE'S ANOTHER TANK.

Fucking ridiculous and then you have to start over all the way at the last safe house oh god Swamp Fever so fucking hard Jesus it's so hard.

Nah, the Plantation is surprisingly doable on Expert. Everybody gets outside in time for the two tanks, light them both, and then just stay ahead of them in the garden maze. Third tank might potentially be the biggest threat, but it depends on how close he spawns to the gate.