Definitely to some degree, but I would also say the commitment to supporting these games. If you're doing a ARTS/MOBA/whatever you are calling it, you have to plan to support these with updates, balance changes, meaningful new content (aka, don't just pump heroes out to say you added more heroes, they actually need to fit in the game). A lot of these games missed that part, and it's something that Dota 2, LoL, HotS, Smite, and the like have all understood and done well (with some exceptions).
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Let's talk about MOBA's: The dead, the surviving ones and the "unknown fated ones"
- Thread starter Omega Kirby
- Start date
Definitely to some degree, but I would also say the commitment to supporting these games. If you're doing a ARTS/MOBA/whatever you are calling it, you have to plan to support these with updates, balance changes, meaningful new content (aka, don't just pump heroes out to say you added more heroes, they actually need to fit in the game). A lot of these games missed that part, and it's something that Dota 2, LoL, HotS, Smite, and the like have all understood and done well (with some exceptions).
Rise of Immortals, oh man, I forgot about that one. That one came out when F2P games just started on Steam. I remember playing it just to get an achievement on a Steam Sale or something. Hated every minute of it.
Wasn't this one the earliest games to adapt the dota gameplay? Good nose for the market.
DEAD.
BURIED.
SIX FEET UNDER.
TURNED TO DUST AT THIS POINT.
RIP Demigod, you were awful.
GitarooMan
Member
I really like Paragon, hope it takes off. Very playable on PS4 with a controller which I think will help.
TimeEffect
Member
Why do devs make these games?
It seems like a death sentence. Dota2 and LoL seem indestructible and there doesnt seem to be room for more MOBAs. Something like Heroes seems to survive largely because of the publisher behind it, so those 3 seems like they can compete fairly well for marketshare.
The best chance for a new MOBA I imagine is to have a console MOBA that is built from the ground up for consoles. It's so strange to see all these MOBAs because it becomes impossible for a casual person like myself to care about investing in any of them
It seems like a death sentence. Dota2 and LoL seem indestructible and there doesnt seem to be room for more MOBAs. Something like Heroes seems to survive largely because of the publisher behind it, so those 3 seems like they can compete fairly well for marketshare.
The best chance for a new MOBA I imagine is to have a console MOBA that is built from the ground up for consoles. It's so strange to see all these MOBAs because it becomes impossible for a casual person like myself to care about investing in any of them
It is in patch thirst mode though, in a week or two if you were to ask the thread, they would say it's alive.
The dev team is now over 150 people and still growing, so it's gotta be giving them a fine return
https://twitter.com/DustinBrowder/status/720409049829810176
Hard to get any read on what the actual population is though
.
I'll give it props for being the first commercial MOBA though.
McBradders
NeoGAF: my new HOME
It's the best fucking one! Megabeth foreverrrrr!
Guilty Gear 2 came out about a year and a half earlier.
Evolution of Metal
Member
You should have two "dead" categories: one for games like Dawngate or IC, another for dying games or games without prospects (Arena of Fate).
I think you could include Jagex's Transformers game as MOBA. Technically it wasn't a MOBA, but it aimed for the same audience in the action F2P market.
Not officially, but AoF is silent for 5 months now. Compared to how Paragon spams emails and announcements, I don't think that I have received anything more than my Beta access email for AoF. Playing Chupacabra wasn't a bad experience, but it was nothing special compared to LoL. It is natural to assume that the game is going to be either cancelled or Day1 abandonware.
I think you could include Jagex's Transformers game as MOBA. Technically it wasn't a MOBA, but it aimed for the same audience in the action F2P market.
Not officially, but AoF is silent for 5 months now. Compared to how Paragon spams emails and announcements, I don't think that I have received anything more than my Beta access email for AoF. Playing Chupacabra wasn't a bad experience, but it was nothing special compared to LoL. It is natural to assume that the game is going to be either cancelled or Day1 abandonware.
ashecitism
Member
Has Crytek actually said anything about Arena of Fate or people took the long silence as it being dead?
GuitarAtomik
Member
OP has an extreme lack of SMITE in the "Surviving ones". It's been doing pretty well for a while now and on consoles as well.
Glass Shark
Banned
His definition of "surviving" is more like "clinging to life"
SMITE, Dota 2, and LoL are thriving, and they should probably be put into a category of their own in the OP
GuitarAtomik
Member
Ah. Is HotS really doing bad enough to put in that category then?
Not at all
Glass Shark
Banned
I doubt it, but the problem is that I don't think anyone really knows for sure. AFAIK they don't publish player counts or surface that information in any way.
ftfy to highlight what killed it imo
Yup, Demigod was pretty good. I cobbled together a mini LAN for this game a few times when it was still new. Supporting low player counts was a big plus for that.
The "skill tree" idea was quite cool because you ended up with several builds per hero. You didn't get to fill out the full skill tree at max level so you needed to decide what you wanted most. Team upgrades were interesting as well. Individual players could dump gold into their "ancient" to upgrade towers and creeps for the team. Maps in the game had an element of area control to them, where you could capture points on the map which gave specific bonuses.
However, trying to play the game online was a nightmare and there were a lot of bugs. And I believe the game only started with 8 heroes with 2 more that came in later which is really not enough. Also, the general-type and assassin-type each hero could be also fell a little flat IMO since all it meant were some heroes could have small creep armies (which you buy with gold) and some couldn't. By no means was it a terrible game, just a little half baked in regards to bugs and a little light on content/heroes.
Yah it really killed my interest after awhile. I know they sell but why would anyone care about giant mutant Joker vampire Batman, or knight green lantern.
TDLink
Member
I don't know why you say HotS is for the people who don't like MOBAs. Also don't know why anyone says it's barely surviving. It definitely has a healthy player base, even if it isn't DOTA2 or LOL levels. Not everything has to be. Getting into a quick match is in HotS is very fast at all times on every day of the week. That's not an indication of a game with a struggling player base.
Even though it doesn't have an item shop, the talent system still has its own depth. And I think the shorter game times (and not having to dedicate potentially 40 minutes to playing) is a big appeal for me. Beyond that I really like the revolving maps and varying objectives. All of that stuff doesn't mean I hate other MOBAs, but I find them a lot less interesting. I was a LoL player for a long time and the variance of not knowing what you're going to get and having to adapt your character to the map via talents is a lot more satisfying than always playing on Summoner's Rift and being locked into the same map with the same 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot, 1 jungle formula where the only real map objectives are dragon and baron.
I really think HotS is great and eventually more people will probably catch on.
Even though it doesn't have an item shop, the talent system still has its own depth. And I think the shorter game times (and not having to dedicate potentially 40 minutes to playing) is a big appeal for me. Beyond that I really like the revolving maps and varying objectives. All of that stuff doesn't mean I hate other MOBAs, but I find them a lot less interesting. I was a LoL player for a long time and the variance of not knowing what you're going to get and having to adapt your character to the map via talents is a lot more satisfying than always playing on Summoner's Rift and being locked into the same map with the same 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot, 1 jungle formula where the only real map objectives are dragon and baron.
I really think HotS is great and eventually more people will probably catch on.
Glass Shark
Banned
I think the alternate versions thing was fine IF they got a pretty wide roster of different heroes before they started adding them and that actually makes sense for seasons. Like you have your regular dude season the first year then atomic next year, etc or whatever. But I remember when I played it the roster had like 15 or something dudes on it and a bunch of them were repeats. They were different heroes as far as skillsets but the fun of these IP based mobas is playing as your favorite dude. I believe they launched with all 3 versions of Batman on a very small roster.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Wish we could get a sequel to Guardians of Middle Earth. Or, at least, BC on Xbone. Wonder if the console user base is even active any more on it.
Iastfan112
Neo Member
It's why I like it. I can come back to Heroes of the Storm periodically and do okay, not so with LoL or Dota. Generally shorter games help too.
Hyperfludd
Member
I wish SMNC wasn't utterly ignored by it's dev.
Maximus.
Member
I agree. May not be as complex as LoL or DOTA, but it is really fun and feels right to me and people I know who used to be addicted to LoL. To each their own though.
Great points.
It is yeah. I'd put HotS above Smite
It's doing very well and they're struggling to keep up with the workload.
Toothbrush
Member
Don't think Smite should be in top three if Heroes of the Storm isn't there. If you follow the average viewership on Twtich+Youtube for Hots and its esports events far surpass that of Smite at the moment.
Omega Kirby
Member
Uh its close, but I think smite is still ahead a bit. Maybe not, IDK
As for hots being for people who didn't enjoy mobas. Thats how they marketed at first, so yeah.
As for hots being for people who didn't enjoy mobas. Thats how they marketed at first, so yeah.
They are quite equal on viewership, also considering the amount of money Blizzard puts into the game.
GuitarAtomik
Member
If you don't mind OP, The format of the opening post is killing me lol. I reformatted it below. Feel free to quote/copy/paste/adjust it if you want.
The Top:
The Top:
- LOL
- DOTA 2
- SMITE
- Heroes of the Storm - A moba dedicated for people who don't like mobas
- Vainglory - A moba perfected for touchscreen
- Awesomenauts - A 2D Moba
- Arena of Fate
- Dawngate - EA's attempt of getting into the Mobas genre
- Infinite Crisis - A moba with the rich universe lore of DC
- Strife
- Heroes of Newerth
- Rise of Immortals
- Dead Island Epidemic
- Magicka Wizard Wars
- SMNC
- Paragon - Epic games attempt of getting into the moba genre. Third person with an Z axis.
- Supernova - Bandai Namcos attempt of getting into the moba genre. Moba with RTS elements.
- Dropzone
HoN is one of the most muddy looking incomprehensible games I've ever played in my life. They really needed to do some serious design work on how that game looks to be any type of popular.
Omega Kirby
Member
Thanks, I'll use your format.
Omega Kirby
Member
I've also been wondering, are mobas costly , like even up to AAA numbers? Does a moba need a great amount of players to make a profit?
Apparently since they're getting shut down left and right and it seems like many are shutting down before they even go into full release