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[Roufianos]

There's no way that Game Pass sustains the cost of all Microsoft 1st party output and the opportunity cost of selling them at RRP.

If I subbed to GP for two months and played Oblivion, Doom and Claire Obscur, that's no way preferable to MS over a 30% cut on Clair Obscur and $70 for the other two.

Clearly, Sony has the games so Microsoft's USP was being a cheaper alternative so were subsiding GP as a way to get people into their ecosystem.

It clearly didn't work and I can't see day one releases on the new Xbox, if there is one.

Best it didn't either, if subscription services took off we'd be getting worse games.

Also, as clearly shown by recent events, Microsoft aren't the gamer's best friends. They'd no doubt revived the Mattrick energy when they got back on top.

Shame they're so bad at this because this industry really would be better off with competition.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Game Pass, like all sub services, is a scam.

 

[Griffon]

What's even crazier in this thread is that a bunch of people seem to accept the premise that gamepass is good value for the money

It's not.

200+$ per year for a selection of cheap discounted games and awful MS exclusives, which disappear as soon as you unsub, making you feel like a sucker when all is said and done.
For 200$ per year I can get an excellent selection of the games *I want* on steam (or humble or fanatical or cdkeys), and I get to keep everything forever if I don't feel like paying for more.

Gamepass is a chump catcher. You're getting fleeced. Renting is a scam.

 

[Astray]

And Netflix killed movie production, lol.

Sure bro. Streaming in the film business brought us more content than ever before. But the opposite will happen with games? I don't think so.

The movie industry is literally teetering on the edge rn wtf are you on about?

 

[darrylgorn]

What's the elephant?

Are they losing subs?

 

[Dorfdad]

the fact of the matter like I said above is that gamepass in its current form is not sustainable. You're not going to get enough big titles day 1, so you can't rise the price either as it's already expensive for a lot of users. They want to grow gamepass and the only way is to tie it into another service like Gamepass / Netflix subscription or something or to remove day and date titles from Gamepass and reduce the price.

I expect we will see a new tier with games over 2 years old for a flat price before next gen. A second with Microsoft first titles and some indie day ones, and a tier that has a lot of third party titles day one but expect a heft increase in pricing. I'm guessing 15.99 / 24.99 / 39.99 for price ranges.

This would allow them to give more incentive (revenue) to top AAA companies in exchange for getting them into the service. And allow those to trickle down into the second and third tiers over time.

Also Microsoft was never a gaming business they propbavly lose more money on gaming then they make. They wanted to jump in and capture the living room with their console and money and that had never happened. They shifted to games and did well with it in 360 days but they didn't want to be a "console" business it was always a Trojan horse. They pushed forward with that idea from a business perspective not a gamers and have been hurting the brand since.

There is no way they can continue to be a console maker I don't care what mouthbteathers say from Microsoft they have to save face and prevent shareholder desertions.

The next console is their last and it won't be a powerhouse but a portal to play their games. Third party devices will be more powerful and they will switch to a software business with cloud gaming becoming their "console"

I'd also expect them to sell off some ip's as well.

 

[cireza]

I totally understand that developers might not like Game Pass for reasons.

And then what ? If you think it devalues your game, then simply don't put your game in it. And if you are right, and everyone thinks it is bad, then nobody is going to put their game in it and the situation will solve itself with Game Pass dying. This hardly affects you if you are a third party, you can simply ignore Game Pass entirely.

 

[calico]

But it is a personal principle, not a responsibility.

I agree.

For example, do you research the production chain of all the products you consume? All the corporate policies of these companies? Their labor, environmental, and social relations?

No because I care about gaming more than these things...

substandard working conditions in China

...and definitely more than this.

as if not subscribing is some noble and romantic act of loyalty to the gaming industry

It is. Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Allow me to open up your horizon's in regards to this point. A lot of us have been around for 9+ generations of gaming and have seen the impact of what buying studios and brute force mentality MSFT has had in not just this industry but with their anti trust case back in the 90's. We want to see the industry rife with the same creativity and success that specifically the 80's and 90's brought. I play more MSFT games than I do Playstation these days due to Gamepass and that doesn't make my point null and void.

I literally just was talking abotu this with a friend after the last round of massive layoffs in their gaming division. The Initiative is just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sure Phil is a nice guy but that doesn't pay the bills.

Closing studio's and laying off ppl is nothing new in this industry

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Closing studio's and laying off ppl is nothing new in this industry

I'm aware. MSFT's track record speaks for itself. My general sentiments have stood since I covered their antitrust case for my school back in the day. Still consider the 360, for good and bad, their heyday.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Game Pass, like all sub services, is a scam.

Scam the scammers

 

[ZehDon]

Maybe, but from my perspective, I also think selling games at AUD$125.00 while packing them to the gills with Battle Passes, DLC, and MTX is an unsustainable business model. Or selling one-and-done 30 hours games with USD$400m budgets where the developers spend more time on their cut-scenes and walk-and-talk than gameplay. Or multiplayer-only F2P titles that need to nickel-and-dime their players to tune of billions of dollars. Or relying on selling millions of copies at a 99% discount in a Steam sale years after launch. On a long enough timeline, none of these are sustainable business models, either for the developers, or the industry at large.

The sustainable model was spending a few million on a game to make something good. Something with vision, innovation, and purpose. Smaller budgets, smaller risk. And from it, we got some truly amazing, wild, and innovative games. But, it was kicked to curb in favour of the graphical arms race and cinematic presentation, because it's simply more reliable to sell a game on its graphics and cut-scenes than to try and innovate with new gameplay. In trying to mitigate creative risk, Publishers created a "safer model" that has ballooned to the point of them betting the farm every time they make a game with budgets reaching half a billion dollars. And unlike the prior model, we generally don't get amazing games, we just get safe games that simply polish polish polish.

If I have to choose between perpetuating one unsustainable model over another, I'll take the one that's a better deal for me. AAA is too expensive for what it's doing, publishers have generally stopped putting out anything new or interesting, and Steam is flooded with so many asset flips, knock offs, and EA slop that it's harder and harder to find the diamonds. For my own time, money, and convenience (and sanity), I'll take a curated sub service with a rotating roster of games for me to try, where if I like any of the games I play I can still buy them. And when a big game finally does comes along that I actually like the look of, like Dune Awakening, I'll be more than happy to spend my money elsewhere, too.

My two cents, anyway.

 

[bender]

At least on GAF, it felt like everyone was talking about it, specifically around sustainability. The conversation became old hat and lost steam when the subscriber numbers plateaued at ~25 million.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I'll take the one that's a better deal for me.

and game pass is the worst of both worlds.

 

[Horatius]

What's even crazier in this thread is that a bunch of people seem to accept the premise that gamepass is good value for the money

It's not.

200+$ per year for a selection of cheap discounted games and awful MS exclusives, which disappear as soon as you unsub, making you feel like a sucker when all is said and done.
For 200$ per year I can get an excellent selection of the games *I want* on steam (or humble or fanatical or cdkeys), and I get to keep everything forever if I don't feel like paying for more.

Gamepass is a chump catcher. You're getting fleeced. Renting is a scam.

i played persona 3 remake, lies of p, the new doom, and the oblivion remake on game pass at launch

total sub time was 4 months

to purchase at launch would have been $400+ NZD

you have to make a lot of dumbass assumptions to make this sound not worth it

 

[Griffon]

i played persona 3 remake, lies of p, the new doom, and the oblivion remake on game pass at launch

Did you finish all 4 in the space of four months?! Especially the RPGs which are huge games? That's some impressive intensive gaming time.

I hope you realize you're a an outlier here. Personally I wouldn't enjoy having to play such big games in so little time.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

i played persona 3 remake, lies of p, the new doom, and the oblivion remake on game pass at launch

total sub time was 4 months

to purchase at launch would have been $400+ NZD

you have to make a lot of dumbass assumptions to make this sound not worth it

If you did it smart like you said. Subbed exactly for 4 months for those specific games, sure good for you.

As an annual package at $200 a year it's crap compared to searching for a deal or discounted site like cdkeys and buying what you want.

I can't tell you how many times I've subbed just for one month just to play a game like black ops 6 or recently doom and just lost interest. Xbox app is abit of a Bonner killer too.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If you did it smart like you said. Subbed exactly for 4 months for those specific games, sure good for you.

As an annual package at $200 a year it's crap compared to searching for a deal or discounted site like cdkeys and buying what you want.

I can't tell you how many times I've subbed just for one month just to play a game like black ops 6 or recently doom and just lost interest. Xbox app is abit of a Bonner killer too.

Some gamers are MP gamers. Whether someone subs to PS+ or Xbox, right off the bat the top tier package builds in MP play access.

You look like someone who is an offline player. So for you, you can cherry pick games in the bargain bin for $20 when they are dirt cheap. If youre subbing to an Xbox plan for a month every once in a while, you dont have a commitment to MP gaming.

So for a lot of us, the first $50+ is really just basic PS+ or Xbox sub plans just for MP alone.

GP Ultimate is cheap too. I've done 6 years of GPU doing the top up plan for a total incremental cost of One Month + $1, since MS allowed anyone with 3 years of Xbox Gold to top up to GPU for almost zero dollars.

They changed the ratio now to 2:1 I believe. So when my plan runs out, I'm going to sub to Xbox Core for as much as it allows, then convert to GPU at 50%. For example, 12 month GP Core is $80 CDN at Costco. I'm going to buy two for $160, which converts to 1 year of GPU. I just got GPU for an extra $80 for a year, since I'd be buying Core anyway.

Your $200 math assumes every gamer buys it at regular price. And assumes it doesn't already factor in Xbox Core MP which a lot of us would buy anyway.

 

[ZehDon]

and game pass is the worst of both worlds.

*Pays developers for their games*
*Is cheaper for me*
*Provides lots of games for me to play and/or try*
*Is available on Console and PC*
"Worst of both worlds".

See, you gotta be more subtle otherwise it gives the game away.

 

[Odinnii]

What's even crazier in this thread is that a bunch of people seem to accept the premise that gamepass is good value for the money

It's not.

200+$ per year for a selection of cheap discounted games and awful MS exclusives, which disappear as soon as you unsub, making you feel like a sucker when all is said and done.
For 200$ per year I can get an excellent selection of the games *I want* on steam (or humble or fanatical or cdkeys), and I get to keep everything forever if I don't feel like paying for more.

Gamepass is a chump catcher. You're getting fleeced. Renting is a scam.

Between Metaphor, Expidition 33, Tony Hawk, Ninja gaiden and Doom the sub more than covered it's worth as far as im concerned and If I wanted a game to keep forever I could just directly buy it.
I dont see how its a bad value or the point in hoarding a bunch of games that I probably wont play

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Between Metaphor, Expidition 33, Tony Hawk, Ninja gaiden and Doom the sub more than covered it's worth as far as im concerned and If I wanted a game to keep forever I could just directly buy it.
I dont see how its a bad value or the point in hoarding a bunch of games that I probably wont play

Heck even better, if someone is a baseball fan MLB The Show was on GP for 3 years in a row. While a Sony fans had to pay for it. That's good savings, since a lot of sports and COD kinds of fans will buy the game year after year.

Imagine if someone is a FIFA or Madden or NHL fan and got 3 years of day one sub plan downloads instead of paying extra. Great deal.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

also think selling games at AUD$125.00 while packing them to the gills with Battle Passes, DLC, and MTX is an unsustainable business model.

Devs are not allowed to sell games now or MTXs and DLCs...

Or selling one-and-done 30 hours games with USD$400m budgets where the developers spend more time on their cut-scenes and walk-and-talk than gameplay

Devs are not allowed to make the "one and done" games....

Or multiplayer-only F2P titles that need to nickel-and-dime their players to tune of billions of dollars.

Dev are not allowed to make free to play games...

Or relying on selling millions of copies at a 99% discount in a Steam sale years after launch. On a long enough timeline, none of these are sustainable business models, either for the developers, or the industry at large.

Dev are not even allowed to discount the price of their games over time.

talking about brain-dead arguments.

The sustainable model was spending a few million on a game to make something good. Something with vision, innovation, and purpose. Smaller budgets, smaller risk. And from it, we got some truly amazing, wild, and innovative games.

And still, we do. What are you even talking about?

But, it was kicked to curb in favour of the graphical arms race and cinematic presentation, because it's simply more reliable to sell a game on its graphics and cut-scenes than to try and innovate with new gameplay. In trying to mitigate creative risk, Publishers created a "safer model" that has ballooned to the point of them betting the farm every time they make a game with budgets reaching half a billion dollars. And unlike the prior model, we generally don't get amazing games, we just get safe games that simply polish polish polish.

90% of blockbuster/mainstream games, movies, and even music are disposable entertainment anyway.

If I have to choose between perpetuating one unsustainable model over another,

The "other model" is literally worse because it doesn't enable what you're yearning for (Something with vision, innovation, and purpose. Smaller budgets, smaller risk. And from it, we got some truly amazing, wild, and innovative games.)

I'll take the one that's a better deal for me.

so, its just about the money then?

AAA is too expensive for what it's doing,

market segments, buddy.

publishers have generally stopped putting out anything new or interesting,

generally

and Steam is flooded with so many asset flips, knock offs, and EA slop that it's harder and harder to find the diamonds.

GP library ain't much better, buddy.

*Pays developers for their games*

You don't only not care about how devs make their money, you are actively against devs asking for money for their games. what are we doing here?

*Is cheaper for me*

so, it's about the money

*Provides lots of games for me to play and/or try*

so its not about the quality then.

*Is available on Console and PC*

So you are talking about play anywhere?

...For my own time, money, and convenience (and sanity)....

If I have to choose between perpetuating one unsustainable model over another,

"Worst of both worlds" You damn right!!
The "other model" is literally worse because it doesn't enable what you're yearning for (Something with vision, innovation, and purpose. Smaller budgets, smaller risk. And from it, we got some truly amazing, wild, and innovative games.) It doesn't even allow a game the chance to be successful because the metrics for success are obfuscated




(Something with vision, innovation, and purpose. Smaller budgets, smaller risk. And from it, we got some truly amazing, wild, and innovative games.)

See, you gotta be more subtle otherwise it gives the game away.

Exactly… This tangent of yours about vision, purpose, and innovation is disingenuous AF.

 

[peish]

What's even crazier in this thread is that a bunch of people seem to accept the premise that gamepass is good value for the money

It's not.

200+$ per year for a selection of cheap discounted games and awful MS exclusives, which disappear as soon as you unsub, making you feel like a sucker when all is said and done.
For 200$ per year I can get an excellent selection of the games *I want* on steam (or humble or fanatical or cdkeys), and I get to keep everything forever if I don't feel like paying for more.

Gamepass is a chump catcher. You're getting fleeced. Renting is a scam.

GPU is not good value for money. It's great value!

It's crazy this thread is turning against the best thing that Xbox did in recent time. Dont let the layoffs news misguide the problems that is not GPU

Look even Sony this gen relies on remakes and reuse of last gen gameplay designs. You add in AI hype, add in costs of M&A, I don't see why GPU becomes the elephant? You remove GPU, it will make Xbox looking worse!

 

[ZehDon]

Devs are not allowed to sell games now...

That's not what I said at all. And that statement applies to so much of your reply I'm not sure why you wrote all that.

Let me sum up my position for you in one sentence:
The video game industry is hell bent on crashing itself with or without Game Pass.

Have a good day.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

That's not what I said at all. And that statement applies to so much of your reply I'm not sure why you wrote all that.

Let me sum up my position for you in one sentence:
The video game industry is hell bent on crashing itself with or without Game Pass.

Have a good day.

and with Game Pass will be worse.

that's all.

 

[Memati187]

No shit! I never understood these so called gamers, who are willingly rent their games instead of buying them, especially physical if given.

The day Sony goes full digital, I am out and will join the pc slaverace.

 

[genesisblock]

I don't see game pass succeeding in the near future, which is why I bought the 1 month pass yesterday and try to play as much exclusives before they go to the gutter since I won't be buying these games in the near future knowing it won't ever be supported, not at the rate this is going.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Imagine being upset as a consumer for getting too good of a deal on games.

Won't somebody think of the business profits and bonuses?

This is where im contradicted as a consumer. Of course I want sales to be healthy to support a games budget but also, you know its an incredible deal....

So, im gonna ride that bitch until the wheels fall off.

Gamepass, for consumers is clearly too good. Im gonna get my moneys worth before it evolves into something that makes money and we are all sat here saying "remember how good gamepass WAS?"

 

[Three]

I totally understand that developers might not like Game Pass for reasons.

And then what ? If you think it devalues your game, then simply don't put your game in it. And if you are right, and everyone thinks it is bad, then nobody is going to put their game in it and the situation will solve itself with Game Pass dying. This hardly affects you if you are a third party, you can simply ignore Game Pass entirely.

It's difficult to ignore when it killed most of the sales on a platform. I'll give you another example that you can perhaps sympathise with. The GaaS/ad revenue model for games. On android/iOS paid games completely collapsed due to this business model because it directly competes while devaluing the games people want to make/sell. You can say ultimately f2p/GaaS games are what people want but sometimes people want "bad things" simply due to the monetary value being less. Would you say f2p/GaaS is a good thing?

 

[DenchDeckard]

There's all this finger pointing about gamepass but no one talks about the sheer incompetence from devs to allow budgets to skyrocket to unsustainable heights.

There's a reason that releases of huge single player games has pretty much dried up and all we've had this gen is games that look like last gen games with very little difference between fully fledged sequels and original last gen titles.

Industry's fucked abd its not gamepass thats the reason.

 

[cireza]

It's difficult to ignore when it killed most of the sales on a platform. I'll give you another example that you can perhaps sympathise with. The GaaS/ad revenue model for games. On android/iOS paid games completely collapsed due to this business model because it directly competes while devaluing the games people want to make/sell. You can say ultimately f2p/GaaS games are what people want but sometimes people want "bad things" simply due to the monetary value being less. Would you say f2p/GaaS is a good thing?

What prevents people from selling their games on mobile ? People only playing F2P games would have not bought your game anyway.

You can't complain about your game not selling if your expectation is that people who don't invest any money would have bought it.

 

[peish]

There's all this finger pointing about gamepass but no one talks about the sheer incompetence from devs to allow budgets to skyrocket to unsustainable heights.

There's a reason that releases of huge single player games has pretty much dried up and all we've had this gen is games that look like last gen games with very little difference between fully fledged sequels and original last gen titles.

Industry's fucked abd its not gamepass thats the reason.

Exactly why. GPU didn't cause The initiative to muck around for 7 years to only show a fully scripted vertical slice. Gpu didnt make starfield. Gpu didn't stopped expedition33 from selling >3.3m hard ass copies

 

[Three]

What prevents people from selling their games on mobile ? People only playing F2P games would have not bought your game anyway.

You can't complain about your game not selling if your expectation is that people who don't invest any money would have bought it.

That simply isn't true. The people who were buying begin to change their behavior based on it. What's worse is that the companies even begin to try to apply pressure to push you a certain way. An example was the removal of paid Angry Birds because the reoccurring revenue of the other version of it was more important.
For MS this can be hiking prices to $80 for stuff like outer worlds and then not providing any more cheap physical versions of games as an alternative.

 

[adamsapple]

No shit! I never understood these so called gamers, who are willingly rent their games instead of buying them, especially physical if given.

The day Sony goes full digital, I am out and will join the pc slaverace.

This post is an honest-to-god roller coaster.

- "so called gamers"
- Assumes renting is only digital (hello gamefly)
- Claims to switch to PC, a decidedly fully digital platform, if their current preferred platform decides to go fully digital

Between Metaphor, Expidition 33, Tony Hawk, Ninja gaiden and Doom the sub more than covered it's worth as far as im concerned and If I wanted a game to keep forever I could just directly buy it.
I dont see how its a bad value or the point in hoarding a bunch of games that I probably wont play

Yep, by the time a game leaves the service, usually one to two years, its likely already had several discounts, plus you always have the 20% discount on games leaving GP, so you have the added perk from having used the service anyway if you intend to buy the game afterward.

There's pretty much no negative to the gamer in this equation.

 

[kruis]

No one?

We HAVE been talking about it for the past 5 years constantly, but we were labeled as "warriors", "haters", and "fake concerned." It's a value-destructive service and should not exist.

Gamepass has been discussed at infinitum on forums like these, but Raphael Colantonia was talking about Neogaf and others, but among game developers. You don't see any devs from indie studios talking about the elephant, because if they want to make money on Xbox they'll have to make a choice: skip Xbox altogether (because GP subscribers don't buy software) or enter negotiations with MS about putting their game on Game Pass and become part of the problem?

Larian has become so big they don't care about GP money so they can say what they want, but other indie devs are probably biting their tongues.

 

[cireza]

That simply isn't true. The people who were buying begin to change their behavior based on it. What's worse is that the companies even begin to try to apply pressure to push you a certain way. An example was the removal of paid Angry Birds because the reoccurring revenue of the other version of it was more important.
For MS this can be hiking prices to $80 for stuff like outer worlds and then not providing any more cheap physical versions of games as an alternative.

Then don't buy 80$ games ? And don't buy Game Pass ? People have no fucking will. You can't complain about something if you are actively validating that something.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Exactly why. GPU didn't cause The initiative to muck around for 7 years to only show a fully scripted vertical slice. Gpu didnt make starfield. Gpu didn't stopped expedition33 from selling >3.3m hard ass copies

Facts! - Once Gamepass is gone, people will slowly turn around and realise it is not the cause for the modern day fuck ups of the industry.

Gamepass has been discussed at infinitum on forums like these, but Raphael Colantonia was talking about Neogaf and others, but among game developers. You don't see any devs from indie studios talking about the elephant, because if they want to make money on Xbox they'll have to make a choice: skip Xbox altogether (because GP subscribers don't buy software) or enter negotiations with MS about putting their game on Game Pass and become part of the problem?

Larian has become so big they don't care about GP money so they can say what they want, but other indie devs are probably biting their tongues.

It's also a lot easier for Larian, who have had one of the most successful games in the last 5 years. Appealing to cultural trends and becoming a meme hype machine thanks to bear romance etc. They can say whatever they want as they made an incredible game that sold a monumental amount of units. There is going to be devs of various success sharing their opinions on things like gamepass. All will be factual to that studios own experience, I am sure.

 

[Astray]

Scam the scammers

Ass of Can Whooping is beginning to gather disciples lol.

 

[Fess]

This is where im contradicted as a consumer. Of course I want sales to be healthy to support a games budget but also, you know its an incredible deal....

So, im gonna ride that bitch until the wheels fall off.

Gamepass, for consumers is clearly too good. Im gonna get my moneys worth before it evolves into something that makes money and we are all sat here saying "remember how good gamepass WAS?"

Yeah. I'm just going to keep playing and be happy that I get games dirt cheap. If I want to own games, then I play day 1 on GP and buy much later on a sale. Win win.

I really don't understand all this concern, why can't people just be normal and enjoy more games for less money and let some suit with a calculator worry about sustainability? You really don't have to carry around the whole industry on your shoulders. Just be happy and play. Once the service is gone you'll look back at it and realize you missed out and paid too much for games you only played through once or didn't even finish at all.

 

[peish]

Facts! - Once Gamepass is gone, people will slowly turn around and realise it is not the cause for the modern day fuck ups of the industry.


It's also a lot easier for Larian, who have had one of the most successful games in the last 5 years. Appealing to cultural trends and becoming a meme hype machine thanks to bear romance etc. They can say whatever they want as they made an incredible game that sold a monumental amount of units. There is going to be devs of various success sharing their opinions on things like gamepass. All will be factual to that studios own experience, I am sure.

Right on . If there's one thing we could attack gamepass on, it would have to be if MS have assine contract terms for all the developers to include some "player retention " mechanism, that adds development time and costs. In this situation, larian should show their receipts! If not, they should hush and enjoy their BG3 success.

Let gamers enjoy great content and value out of GPU.

As the old adage says, gamepass dont make bad games. Bad developers make bad games

 

[Three]

Then don't buy 80$ games ? And don't buy Game Pass ? People have no fucking will. You can't complain about something if you are actively validating that something.

That's true but I think that's the elephant in the room being brought up now. Something that is there but many people don't complain about. There is nothing to suggest that the dev is validating it while complaining about that elephant. He sees that others are blissfully oblivious to that elephant though.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Yeah. I'm just going to keep playing and be happy that I get games dirt cheap. If I want to own games, then I play day 1 on GP and buy much later on a sale. Win win.

I really don't understand all this concern, why can't people just be normal and enjoy more games for less money and let some suit with a calculator worry about sustainability? You really don't have to carry around the whole industry on your shoulders. Just be happy and play. Once the service is gone you'll look back at it and realize you missed out and paid too much for games you only played through once or didn't even finish at all.

This is my approach completely. I just hope we don't see anyone complaining about gamepass and its sustainability while doing the gamepass "hack" of cancelling their subscription every month. If you have ever complained about gamepass and its concern for devs and then pulled that trick....well......

Right on . If there's one thing we could attack gamepass on, it would have to be if MS have assine contract terms for all the developers to include some "player retention " mechanism, that adds development time and costs. In this situation, larian should show their receipts! If not, they should hush and enjoy their BG3 success.

Let gamers enjoy great content and value out of GPU.

As the old adage says, gamepass dont make bad games. Bad developers make bad games

Absolutely!

 

[Baemono]

Right on .

 

[Madserb2023]

I absolutely accept that Game Pass doesn't work as a model. However, it's basically the only way I will play the Outer Worlds 2. I am not paying $80. That's another elephant.

 

[Fess]

This is my approach completely. I just hope we don't see anyone complaining about gamepass and its sustainability while doing the gamepass "hack" of cancelling their subscription every month. If you have ever complained about gamepass and its concern for devs and then pulled that trick....well......

I grew up with C64, I'm not throwing any rocks in this glass house…

And the cheap prepaid deals are shady as well tbh. I've paid the equivalent of 6 full priced games for 6 years of Gamepass……

The subscriber numbers will go up either way and the games will have more players and get more talk. I'd say just enjoy and ride the train in whatever way you find appealing until it crashes. Then buy the games you liked for a fraction of what you would've paid day 1.

I have every console, including Pro and Switch 2, 400 games on Steam, 150 on GOG, a 4090 PC, 5090 PC, GeForce Now sub. I think I'm spending enough either way to not be the actual problem if the industry is getting money problems.

 

[calico]

Bad developers make bad games

Developers are not immune from the influence of the business model and incentive structures they are working within. Some devs assumed the Game Pass gravy train would continue forever and that the continued existence of their job was safe no matter how little effort they put in.

If Microsoft still has any intention of Game Pass being viable, they probably need to crack the whip more often not less.

 

[Roberts]

Everything withers and dies at some point, so will Game Pass. But it has been around for, what, 8 years? It has turned me from a casual gamer who plays 5 games a year into someone who plays 50 a year. I've spent 10x more money on games than I ever did before. It totally revitalised my love for gaming and if GP goes away I will probably go back to being a casual. Many of my gaming buddies feel the same. So, excuse me if I want GP haters to fuck-off and have the service available for as long as possible.

 

[Steve Holt]

This is my approach completely. I just hope we don't see anyone complaining about gamepass and its sustainability while doing the gamepass "hack" of cancelling their subscription every month. If you have ever complained about gamepass and its concern for devs and then pulled that trick....well......

I don't really get this.

Why is it on individuals to be responsible for the affects of the refunding hack? Microsoft seemingly don't want to close this loophole as it allows them to show more active users, than users staying cancelled and unsubscribed for many months.

They must be aware of this- don't you think?

It's on them for their shoddy system which is open to abuse.

Weren't you also openly loving the VPN hack for cheap games on this forum also? Was that ok because ..reasons?

 

[Bloody5]

The missing key to this puzzle is that Microsoft, like most major corporations, is leading the push towards a "rent economy".
Are you familiar with the WEF motto "You will own nothing and you will be happy"?
This goes hand in hand with destroying local independent studios in the long run with a model that is only sustainable for big conglomerates.

None of the Gamepass strategy makes sense from a business perspective, unless you look at it as a part of a bigger plan.

 

[Punished Miku]

The missing key to this puzzle is that Microsoft, like most major corporations, is leading the push towards a "rent economy".
Are you familiar with the WEF motto "You will own nothing and you will be happy"?
This goes hand in hand with destroying local independent studios in the long run with a model that is only sustainable for big conglomerates.

None of the Gamepass strategy makes sense from a business perspective, unless you look at it as a part of a bigger plan.

They're also doing more than any current console owner to preserve BC and strengthen the value of your purchases. BC, Play Anywhere, the new AMD deal, etc.

If I were you, I'd be a little more worried about Nintendo. They already put anything older than a Switch 1 game exclusively on a sub with no options to purchase. They've already had multiple sub exclusive games that were entirely removed. No one cares though. Just hard to find any of this complaining as sincere.