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Let's talk Xbox 720: Xbox World shares everything it knows about the next console
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I don't think anyone took you seriously after reading that.
Even tho the PCs don't have programming to the metal, they still outclass everything and anything else.
The problem is, if you don't know how to buy PCs. Nobody who has brains buys OEM. And you also need skill when and what to buy.
Bought back a few years I have a ~1500$ one (incl upgrades etc, over 3 yrs ...),ofcourse it's DIY, intel Q9300 , 16GB Corsair RAM, Radeon HD5850, Samsung 830 128GB SSD , Enermax 620W Galaxy, WD500AAKS, WD1002FAEX Caviar Black 1TB Sata 3 64MB, GA-P35-DS4, Asus Xonar D1, Logitech X-540 5.1 Sorround Set.
I changed 1 CPU and 2 GPUs, got down half the price of a new one by selling the previous one.
Nobody with brains buys a 450$ PC. That's throwing out money. If you don't have enough money don't even think about PC until you do. You need to find the perfect balance, come on, my parents buy like this, they watch stupid paper commercials and get hyped, they don't realize if you put a few more bucks to a better model of something it's always better, when you get over the balance then there's the enthusiast market which costs a lot more but the performance/quality is not a significant jump in practise.
EDIT: I noticed now that you didn't meant a 450$ PC, but a TOP END PC vs 450$ Box.
Not only are the console parts developed to be produced as cheaply as possible, tho microsoft didn't made good decisions with x360 on that, they had to scrap a lot of faulty chips because they couldn't update some security stuff because it wasn't designed, I forgot the details okay.
Now, again, same thing, you think it takes a top end PC, well what is "top-end" in your mind, a 3500$ OEM PC from a paper commercial ?
It won't outclass anything on PC, when devs get familiar with the X720 the PC will be far ahead again by that time.
And when Doom 4 comes out, with arbitrary quality downloads, you'll wet your pants.
That's fine. I don't care if I'm being overly optimistic or my expectations are completely ridiculous, I want that to happen. I know very well that they can't rival a high-end PC of 2012/2013 in sheer power but that won't prevent them from delivering never seen before graphics. The 1st party teams they have did a very good job on this generation of console and I expect them to make some incredible looking games in 2013/2014. From the rumors scattered around the internet the Orbis/Durango are shaping up to be really powerful, besides the PC hardware we know has not been exploited as it could and we have not seen what DX11 is truly capable of, fortunately MS and Sony are going to rectify this.
As good as Crysis 3 looks I think this is what we should expect from next-generation at launch.
And they will, As I wasn't saying they won't be a huge jump.
They will, similar goes for WiiU, it'll be a huge humongous jump for nintnendo games. The question is if they'll keep polishing their games to the level they did until now.
And consoles with metal programming will always be easier to achieve stable frame rate.
Proprietary GPU API and DirectX are the bane of the PC software industry. A programer that thinks APIs and Layering is good and is defending it, has no idea what he's talking about, probably never worked in gaming field to begin with. So I don't blame it on Microsoft directly or vendors, those engineers just aren't making games and they don't see how much of a difference it makes and how astonishingly important it is.
For example if your Crysis 3 runs with 20FPS, with a good metal programming they could get that on same hardware to something like 50FPS.
There's one good quote from Carmack that directly adresses the performance gain by programmers that know to do well metal optimizations - I already mentioned it on gaf.
Moar powa!
I don't care as much about MS first party stuff/exclusives, so it'd have to have improved multiplat performance or better exclusives before I jump in, but a powerfull nextbox, a powerfull PS4 and pc (considering third parties might snub Wii-U almost completely) would allow for such an improvement in graphics, level design, physics etc. Just cut off older pcs and people clinging to XP.
I don't care as much about MS first party stuff/exclusives, so it'd have to have improved multiplat performance or better exclusives before I jump in, but a powerfull nextbox, a powerfull PS4 and pc (considering third parties might snub Wii-U almost completely) would allow for such an improvement in graphics, level design, physics etc. Just cut off older pcs and people clinging to XP.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Well, C3 will look great on consoles too, and if the only advantages the PC version has are improved textures, tessellation and resolution/IQ, then yeah, games in 2013/14 running on XBOX 3 are gonna match or exceed that visual fidelity, resolution and IQ aside. Not because of magical optimization (although that doesn't hurt, you know), but because these games will be getting developed without the PS360 version acting as a constraint. May not be a night and day difference, ESPECIALLY not the launch titles, but we should be seeing a jump, even if it takes Digital Foundry to notice it. The PC versions of these games will look better still, which is the thing I'm excited the most about.
That's a given but the question is : how demanding will these games be ? What kind of hardware will it take to run them at 1080p/30fps ?
Most of the game's look is textures, all of those effects aren't that important, those are just bonuses, so if we have arbitrary quality downloads, which would supply texture data, FPS may not be impacted as much as in some calculation heavy stuff, but you'll need enoguh RAM and VRAM. Also good stable internet connection.
So start bulding PCs with at least 8GB and 16GB if you wish to disable pagefile.
alexandros
Banned
Probably a bit stronger than the consoles' hardware to account for the full-blown OS and other overhead issues. And more RAM.
There's no way it could happen if they plan to sell it for less than $600-$700.
"Programming to the metal" is a myth. Console games do use low level code, but these games are far too large to code everything in assembly. Every system has an API, no matter how thin or thick it may be.
Any developer will tell you that an API is necessary and a good thing. I wouldn't take John's comment out of context if I were you. IIRC RAGE only supports DX9, which is far more limited compared to DX11.
How would you know that without something to compare to?
gaming_noob
Member
I'm guessing at least one of those points is 100% accurate and they're trying to mask it with other outrageous "predictions" or twisted truths to protect their sources.
legacyzero
Banned
With all the anti-used talk, I'm pretty reluctant.
Yeah I'm gonna wait until the reveal. I dunno why I feel so suspicious about next gen....
Yeah I'm gonna wait until the reveal. I dunno why I feel so suspicious about next gen....
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Did you read the article? They reference the leaked document multiple times.
I thought this was a fun read, despite most of it already being known. Fact is, most gamers, even 'hardcore' gamers, don't know half of this stuff. So while it may be old to us it's probably new to them. Not a bad article.
And how many PC gamers have dual gtx 680 setups? 0.01%? It says a lot when you have to go to an extreme like that to make a point. Probably not even a 1% have a single gtx 680 setup.
Why are the next-gen consoles being compared to a tiny, tiny niche of the hardcore PC gaming market? an insignificant percentage... like <5% (there's proof of this too, see the monthly Valve hardware survey). It should be compared to the average 'hardcore' PC gamer's setup, not the extreme end.
Carmack also said in the above linked QuakeCon keynote that PCs are a magnitude more powerful than consoles, but the results that are displayed on a PC are not a magnitude better than consoles. (This was not in the context of diminishing returns.)
He then again talks about what a bitch it was to get the PC version to run at 60 fps.
That's the context that surrounds that statement.
Graphics Horse
Member
disc slot..
I wouldn't call that mockup suitcase size but it looks bigger than an original PS3.
Doug Heffernan
Member
I'm gonna go play the glorious Viva Pinata: TIP and pretend I live in a world where Kinect Sports doesn't exist...
A Xbox slim with no physical media support? Screw that. Half the value of a game console is the built in bluray player and resell able games. You will pry my physical media from my cold dead hands Microsoft!!!!
I know this gets said a lot but I really mean it. A DD only console would make me a PC only gamer.
I know this gets said a lot but I really mean it. A DD only console would make me a PC only gamer.
They either both go nuclear and both go DD only or the one going DD only will perish.
Retail is still the biggest volume of where gaming sales happen in that market.
Aquamarine
Member
Maybe the Wii U naysayers will start to warm up to the console...if Microsoft takes it too far with a digital-only, online-connection-required, no-used-games approach.
A physical box + physical disc will ALWAYS be worth more than a digital license locked to one account.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
MS could lock the OS to only allow developers access to a portion. I have no idea if that's a good idea, but certainly possible.
Graphics Horse
Member
It's a long way away, we'll all be living on Mars by 2015.
Also I really don't get the idea of using RAM to switch between different ready loaded games, you can do that on the PC but I'm not sure anyone would feel the need to.
That's the only way it'd work, really.
Yes but his experience with the last game will be what he's referring to. PCs are an order of magnitude faster than consoles, and newer versions of DX remove some of the barriers the API will introduce.
Using main memory to store multiple instances of different games would be silly and wasteful.
It would be okay if it would dump memory to HDD when exeiting and load from HDD when coming back.
This would give all developers full access to memory without huge drawbacks. (outside ~8GB? dumps all across HDD)
If the point is to speed up dvd/HDD loading times a proper disk caching would be a lot better choice. (Similar to hybrid drives and fancy cache.)
This is already proven to work decently and would be easier to control.
JonathanPower
Member
They didn't in 2005 though. When the Xbox360 launched, it had a triple core processor and a GPU featuring an Unified Shader architecture. Multicore PC CPUs were not common at the time, and no PC GPU with Unified Shaders was available when the Xbox360 was released.
No, you're confusing the DX11 API with DX11 hardware. For instance Black Ops 2 uses the DX11 API, but it supports cards like the HD3870 which is DX10 and of course 360 and PS3 which are both DX9 level.
That's what I did with the 360. Paid off...cept having to return two models for breaking down and all. Can't fathom not doing an extended warranty nowadays. Anyways, some games were there. Oblivion, most noticeably.
Alcoholikaust
Member
not so much gaming related but my new Samsung 3D Blu ray player can be playing a movie (after skipping all those licensing warnings/trailers) within ONE MINUTE after powering it on.
It takes 30 seconds for my old 40 gig ps3 to get to xmb then another 25 for it to load the disc menu then another 35 seconds to skip through then have to wait through federal warnings (a now skippable feature on newer blu ray players)....
you get the idea.
Ah, the good old days of console speculation.
I think Microsoft is on a warpath for domination of the living room entertainment, and the next Xbox will have a strong bias towards media consumption, not only games.
I don't really have high expectations for the hardware, we are reaching a point where the bottleneck on quality is on the developer's time/cost and not on hardware capability.
I think Microsoft is on a warpath for domination of the living room entertainment, and the next Xbox will have a strong bias towards media consumption, not only games.
I don't really have high expectations for the hardware, we are reaching a point where the bottleneck on quality is on the developer's time/cost and not on hardware capability.
alexandros
Banned
They are being compared to the PC high-end for two reasons. First, because the article claimed (inaccurately and ridiculously) that the technology powering the next Xbox is out of reach of even the most hardcore PC gamer.
Second, because console specs matter when it comes to long-term performance. The 360 had great specs for its time (especially in the CPU department) which is why it managed to perform well for 2-3 years before mainstream gaming PCs surpassed it in power. If the next Xbox is much weaker than a top-of-the-line gaming PC today, it will start lagging behind mainstream gaming PCs after about a year from release.
The Albatross
Member
Nice conglomeration of all of the rumors. The problem is that X-Box World gets their material from Gaf, like every other videogame website, so anything that could be on X-Box World has been talked about here for six months.
PCs were more powerful than the PS360 when they launched, just like PCs were more powerful than the DC, PS2, Xbox, GC, etc. when they launched as well (or at least 6 months - 1 year). Doesn't really effect the long term performance or support. What will matter is how well the system compares to the competition. The PS4 and 720 are likely to both receive great support since their specs and performance should be within a ballpark of each other. However the same can't be said for the Wii-U.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
wake me up when this is official
Give me native Keyboard+Mouse support on this and I'll be interested. They seem to be selling it as competition to PC gaming (since that's what they are directly comparing the hardware specs to) but fail to realize that one of the biggest advantages to gaming on the PC is a better control scheme for FPSs, the most common genre on the XBox.
shinobi602
Member
Wasn't the Xenon more powerful than any PC CPU in 05'?
I believe every console CPU has been better suited for games compared to PC, at launch at least. But don't forget they were custom made to handle this kinds of computing.
Now, if rumors are true and x720 is a x86 I wouldn't bet on the CPU beating intel's mid or top of the line products.
Everyone sees the Wii U and the small jump it made and are expecting disappointment from Sony and MS now. I don't think that is going to be the case. They will make sure the next consoles can hang with the best offered on PC for awhile. 1080P is not that difficult of a target to hit anymore. Not with modern technology.
This thread reminds me of the good old times, when the Dreamcast was just launched, and magazines would print pages and pages of crazy speculations about the Playstation 2...
Yup. With the same hyperbole and fanboy wishes as the OP
Have the North Koreans shown any interest in the next Xbox yet?
gaming_noob
Member
From Beyond3D - someone asked if Durango would experience major heating issues with the APU and here was one of the responses (which I was not aware of):
Someone else estimating the Durango GPU to be the equivalent of the "680".
Edit: whoa...Beyond3D is now down. MS ninjas at work?
Someone else estimating the Durango GPU to be the equivalent of the "680".
Edit: whoa...Beyond3D is now down. MS ninjas at work?
iamvin22
Industry Verified
i 100 percent agree with this post. i think nintendo tried to convince 3rd party dev and gamers that the games will look the same and you dont need to upgrade with tech. i believe its going to bite then in the ass this time around.
Syphon Filter
Member
Any world if MS will have an X event next year? Did they have one this year?
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
they are? everyone's already seen the ue4 demo, watchdogs, star wars, square agnis, that's the ballpark we're expecting with ps4/xb3 and that's what we'll be getting.
nintendo, once again, chose to stay out of the tech race but i have a feeling that's gonna bite them in the ass in 2-3 years.
I believe the 680 is on the 28 nm process already? A similar card without GDDR5 and a lot less bandwidth maybe possible if the new Xbox is the same size of the original xbox
Anybody have a link to these docs?