• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

LGBThread |OT4| We're (still) Here! We're (still) Queer!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Christopher

Member
Hoeabtly no pikmin game did it for me...however I appreciate the effort as I feel its the last of Nintendo original character driven games.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus

Ahh, I somehow missed that.

It did clarify some things, yeah. Thank you!

You mentioned that "trans" is sort of an umbrella term for a bunch of different things, but I've noticed that a lot of trans(sexual) people get upset whenever someone who isn't transsexual identifies as trans. Do you think their ire towards those people is warranted?

Well did it fit? Was it too long? Your reputation depends on the answers.

It did! Huzzah!
 

HylianTom

Banned
Speaking of Nintendo.
It blows my mind that we got Mario music that sounds like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UYXABAC06s

Like holy shit, that sounds like a Zelda boss theme.

The sheer volume of Nintendo music played by professional musicians on YouTube always astounds me. I can't name one fourth of the pop songs that Weird Al is parodying on his latest album, probably because I always have video game music on.

If you had told me back in high school that we'd have such a musical selection (and that the love for Nintendo music would endure so well), I would've been highly skeptical.. and delighted.
 

Caladrius

Member
Pikmin 2 is worse for me, very bad level design there.

The dungeons were randomly generated, so that was inevitable.

The sheer volume of Nintendo music played by professional musicians on YouTube always astounds me. I can't name one fourth of the pop songs that Weird Al is parodying on his latest album, probably because I always have video game music on.

If you had told me back in high school that we'd have such a musical selection (and that the love for Nintendo music would endure so well), I would've been highly skeptical.. and delighted.

It pains me that Video Game composers don't get more recognition.

Martin O' Donnell, Yoko Shimomura, Koji Kondo, Shoji Meguro, Yasonori Matsuda and Kenji Yamamoto (when he isn't plagiarizing shit) off the top of my head are all beast.
 

HylianTom

Banned
It pains me that Video Game composers don't get more recognition.

Martin O' Donnell, Yoko Shimomura, Koji Kondo, Shoji Meguro, Yasonori Matsuda and Kenji Yamamoto (when he isn't plagiarizing shit) off the top of my head are all beast.

I've maintained for a long, long time that if Koji Kondo did movie music instead of video games, he'd have a shelf full of Academy Awards.
 
^^^
There are definitely a lot of video game composers that should be getting way more recognition than they currently get from the mainstream.
Marty O Donnell's Halo theme still makes me feel all tingly.

Ahh, I somehow missed that.

It did clarify some things, yeah. Thank you!

You mentioned that "trans" is sort of an umbrella term for a bunch of different things, but I've noticed that a lot of trans(sexual) people get upset whenever someone who isn't transsexual identifies as trans. Do you think their ire towards those people is warranted?

I've noticed that myself over the years.
Especially when it comes to the quiet little feud that goes on between some new millennium trans girls and effeminate male bodied trans* (umbrella) people.

I don't think the ire from some trans people is warranted at all (it's quite ignorant if you ask me), but It's understandable why some trans women violently twitch at the idea of male bodied non-transsexual trans* people calling themselves "trans"(No one generally highlights the asterisk in verbal form and cis people don't even know about the inclusive asterisk)
Our society generally holds this ignorant idea that all gay men are effeminate, and transsexual women must obviously be the uber-effeminate pokemon-esque evolution of gay men. The average Joe and Jane don't really understand the difference between male bodied effeminate trans* people and trans women; they sort of just lump everyone together without much thought and that's obviously very hurtful to trans women because it awakens many negative trans stereotypes and devalues their womanhood.
 

EmiPrime

Member
Ahh, I somehow missed that.

It did clarify some things, yeah. Thank you!

You mentioned that "trans" is sort of an umbrella term for a bunch of different things, but I've noticed that a lot of trans(sexual) people get upset whenever someone who isn't transsexual identifies as trans. Do you think their ire towards those people is warranted?

I personally find the idea of the "transgender umbrella" pointless at best and harmful at worst. There is a world of difference between what something somebody does on a friday night and a life change that becomes a 24/7 lived experience. Ultimately drag queens are still cis men and drag kings are still cis women, it's gender as performance, at best an alter ego rather than an identity. It's a wildly different life experience compared to what trans people go through given they don't need a doctor's written permission to become a drag king/queen/TV/CD nor do they need legal documents to make it happen nor do they have to tell their family and employer or school etc. When the packers, binders, wigs and makeup come off at the end of the night they go back to being who they were; no dysphoria and all the other benefits cis privilege brings.

It's not uncommon for people who eventually do transition to try these alternative identities out before committing but as the average age of transition declines this is becoming a much less common path. Trans teens tend to be pretty sure about what they want now, they don't need to test the water as a TV or a DQ/DK, they want hormones ASAP.

As for kids on Tumblr claiming trans identities for spurious reasons, you know my feelings on appropriation.
 
mike-vogel-under-the-dome.jpg


I melt every time I watch under the dome
 

Rayis

Member
I sometimes wonder if I could be considered trans or not, I mean, I sure as hell don't consider myself cis since being cis implies being comfortable being my birth gender which I'm not completely comfortable with, I use the label gender noncomformist to describe myself since I think it describes my struggles pretty well, which basically boils down to not feeling masculine and masculinity being an alien concept to me despite the fact I'm biologically male.
 

EmiPrime

Member
I sometimes wonder if I could be considered trans or not, I mean, I sure as hell don't consider myself cis since being cis implies being comfortable being my birth gender which I'm not completely comfortable with, I use the label gender noncomformist to describe myself since I think it describes my struggles pretty well, which basically boils down to not feeling masculine and masculinity being an alien concept to me despite the fact I'm biologically male.

You are cis but you could also identify as queer. I don't like gender norms and my sexuality is more complicated than bi so I like queer a lot as an identity.
 
Pikmin 3 was one of the biggest surprises for me last year. I had never played a Pikmin game before, but my best friend recommended it to me when I got my wii u. I'm not a fan of games with time limits really so I was very hesitant, but I ended up loving the game. I collected all the fruit and still wanted to keep playing.

Partly Cloudy qnd 91 degrees down here in Atlanta.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll just let it roll off of me.

I was just down in Atlanta last weekend visiting a friend. He lives very close to Emory.
 
^^^
They're both really cute.

I personally find the idea of the "transgender umbrella" pointless at best and harmful at worst.

It's fine that you feel that way (you're an individual after all), but even well respected trans activist, like Janet Mock, are pretty quick to point out the importance of transgender as an umbrella term. It has always been an umbrella term, and it's not fair to take that away from other trans* people. I understand that it's confusing to cis people and that's harmful for trans people, but the best thing to do about that would be to educate cis people about the differences between the trans* groups.

There is a world of difference between what something somebody does on a friday night and a life change that becomes a 24/7 lived experience...

Of course there is.
However, you can't just dismiss the experiences of other people without actually knowing what they go through; Plus, competing in the Oppression Olympics with another disrespected minority group isn't really a very productive thing to do.
The whole "They can take it off and live normal lives!" thing is kind of fallacy at this point, especially if you know anything about the other trans* groups.

While your average local drag queen doesn't generally have gender dysphoria that doesn't make her any less vulnerable to local biggots who wanna kick her ass (Drag Queen Heidi Glum was attacked by cis women while ordering a pizza. I wouldn't be surprised if similar experiences with unknown queens often go unreported), unsafe bathroom situations, bigoted cops, ignorant straight men who believe they've been "tricked", and the ostracization that can easily come from family/friends/cis-gay men upon learning that their son/co-worker/classmate/potential lover likes wearing a dress for a living.
Also, many drag queens happen to be effeminate gay/bi boys (bye bye privilege!) and their persona's are often a great vehicle for their gender expression and artistic identity; the relationship between many queens and their drag persona's isn't as shallow as some people make it out to be.
 

EmiPrime

Member
^^^
They're both really cute.



It's fine that you feel that way (you're an individual after all), but even well respected trans activist, like Janet Mock, are pretty quick to point out the importance of transgender as an umbrella term. It has always been an umbrella term, and it's not fair to take that away from other trans* people. I understand that it's confusing to cis people and that's harmful for trans people, but the best thing to do about that would be to educate cis people about the differences between the trans* groups.



Of course there is.
However, you can't just dismiss the experiences of other people without actually knowing what they go through; Plus, competing in the Oppression Olympics with another disrespected minority group isn't really a very productive thing to do.
The whole "They can take it off and live normal lives!" thing is kind of fallacy at this point, especially if you know anything about the other trans* groups.

While your average local drag queen doesn't generally have gender dysphoria that doesn't make her any less vulnerable to local biggots who wanna kick her ass (Drag Queen Heidi Glum was attacked by cis women while ordering a pizza. I wouldn't be surprised if similar experiences with unknown queens often go unreported), unsafe bathroom situations, bigoted cops, ignorant straight men who believe they've been "tricked", and the ostracization that can easily come from family/friends/cis-gay men upon learning that their son/co-worker/classmate/potential lover likes wearing a dress for a living.
Also, many drag queens happen to be effeminate gay/bi boys (bye bye privilege!) and their persona's are often a great vehicle for their gender expression and artistic identity; the relationship between many queens and their drag persona's isn't as shallow as some people make it out to be.

If you're going to use "Oppression Olympics" like a top trump card to dismiss my concerns and experiences then there is no discussion to be had here. Same for if you think being effeminate erases all cis privilege.

There is a lot of misogyny and transphobia among drag queens so you'll have to accept that a lot of trans women do not feel this great solidarity under the so called transgender umbrella. Forget about educating cis people, DQs need to sort out their own act first.
 
Pikmin 3 game time flies by, then you see your actual hours played and are left in shock, and you haven't even started the missions.
If you didn't repeat any day and skip all cutscenes your time should be in 13 hours more or less, that is not short at all.

Amazing game, it makes you crave for fruits in real life, they look so freaking good in that game!

Yeah, Pikmin 3 is really fantastic.
EAD managed to combine the best aspects from both the first and second installments to create a whole new interesting hybrid formula that was very satisfying (and not some kind of weird half-serving thing)
Those guys at EAD4 are really talented.

I'm convinced Pikmin 3 is magical, everyone says it feels so short even though they've clocked in over 10 hours. Time flies by like crazy, they've done a great job on it.

Speaking of Nintendo.
It blows my mind that we got Mario music that sounds like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UYXABAC06s

Like holy shit, that sounds like a Zelda boss theme.

I really hope we get a lot of amazing Galaxy tracks to choose from in Smash.
 

Amalthea

Banned
I would have a lot more respect for Janet Mock if she didn't start to shit on the passing privilege lately. Does she really think she could have ever become a successful journalist for a famous womens magazine back before she came out of her stealth mode? Or the way she talks about how she walks proudly and openly as a transwoman in public and other should do that too. Yeah, that's because nobody notices you're T, my dear. I wonder if she even cam imagine how much she would have been harrassed if she wouldn't pass that well.

And of course I know where she's going. That all Transpeople should be able to walk the streets safely no matter how they look. But presenting herself as a shining example of this to promote this ideal world when in fact it's just her passing privilege at work seems inredebly hypocritical to me.
 
If you're going to use "Oppression Olympics" like a top trump card to dismiss my concerns and experiences then there is no discussion to be had here.

Guy 1: "Many of our ancestors were completely eradicated off the face of the earth by deadly plagues and terrible genocides at the hands of white people. Plus, our surviving ancestors were hauled off their ancestral lands and forced into crummy little ghettos; BEAT THAT!"
Guy 2: "C'mon son, we were taken out of our ancestral home and forced to become slaves to southern plantations owners who treated us worse than dirt and stole every bit of culture that we had! Plus, when white people freed us we were still treated like second class citizens! What you gotta say about that red man??"
Guy 3: "You think you guys have it bad??! Oy vey!!..."

That's the idea of the "Opression Olympics", no one (including myself) is dismissing your concerns or experiences. The phrase criticizes one's attempt at making their experiences with a severed leg seem worse than the person's with a severed arm; They both have unique issues that should be accounted for but it makes no sense for them to pit themselves against each other, especially when they share some very similar issues and people are capable of addressing more than one issue at a time.


Same for if you think being effeminate erases all cis privilege.

Oh I know it does honey.
I can't imagine a male bodied effeminate individual like this being able to work a non-artistic office job (or be comfortable at one) if em (preferred pronoun) is trying to go to work in women's office wear, but doesn't want to be recognized as female.

There is a lot of misogyny and transphobia among drag queens so you'll have to accept that a lot of trans women do not feel this great solidarity under the so called transgender umbrella.

Nobody expects all trans women to do this (It's a common thing that often happens in minority groups that share labels) but that doesn't make anyone who says,"Hey, you know this thing that you supposedly are? You're not that because I'm very uncomfortable with being associated with you and your damaging identity!" sound like a very good person.
 

Spree

Member
Why did the gay club get raided?
I just checked it, and it was more of a gay party. As for the reason, people here don't tolerate 'lewd' acts in public in general, and the party, to them, probably fell under that. Kinda of a BS-y reason, but for reference, drinking in public is illegal here, and even straight couples kissing in public is frowned upon.

Though, one incident I'd read about a while ago but just stumbled upon, is when a woman and her female life partner were arrested at their wedding along with a number of the guests. I felt pretty bad reading that one. I think it was the first gay wedding ever here, I'm not sure. I doubt the marriage itself was recognized by the government, though.

To be fair, though, it's better than most other muslim countries where even the act of gay sex is illegal. No anti-gay laws here; it's mostly a cultural thing. (lol am I defending them? What's wrong with me?)
 

Christopher

Member
I'm reading all this and maybe perhaps need to be educated but why are people so desperate to classify what is and what isn't trans what is and what isn't gay...why are we so quick to classify when being different isn't the goal. The goal is to be accepted, integrated, and a sense of self identity.

I would like to be known for who I am what defines me not my gender, who I have sex with to determine what label you choose to put me in...?
 

Kangi

Member
I'm reading all this and maybe perhaps need to be educated but why are people so desperate to classify what is and what isn't trans what is and what isn't gay...why are we so quick to classify when being different isn't the goal. The goal is to be accepted, integrated, and a sense of self identity.

I would like to be known for who I am what defines me not my gender, who I have sex with to determine what label you choose to put me in...?

Because people are obsessed with putting each other in boxes. When someone exists outside of that box, they are upset by that fact.

I've found that most people who champion inclusion are only in it for so long as *they're* included. Beyond that, their mindset quickly becomes the "conform or die" line of reasoning that breeds intolerance worldwide. Always a next group to look down upon, I suppose.
 

Spree

Member
That's actually really interesting. So if one dude rapes another, the rapee is seen as gay but the rapist isn't? It's basically like a country wide prison mentality?
Pffft haha that exact thought crossed my mind after I hit submit. It's pretty much like that, yeah. Especially the part about the lack of women to have sex with, since most people are so religious, guys don't don't really get to hang out or have sex with women much, same as prison lmao.

Though, it's not as widespread as my post probably made it seem, hhhh. It's just funny that it's even a thing.
 
It is almost a week from the 20th anniversary of the Tasty nightclub raid in Melbourne. A raid by police on a queer venue, ostensibly because of drugs, where everyone was held for seven hours and strip searched, where a person secretly took a photo and leaked it to the press which was put on the front page and people joined a class action suit against the police and won.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasty_nightclub_raid
 
Chris Evans is a lucky man (well except for the balding part).

Oooo, I love me some Chris Evans gurl.
...I don't like Kick Ass as an actor (Godzilla 2014 might as well have been called "Aaron Taylor Johnson: King of the Bad Actors!!")
but I'd totally let him hit it; he's a bit of a cutie.
 

red13th

Member
Worst part of Godzilla was no shirtless Aaron Taylor Johnson scene, he was so hot in that movie.
I'm now shipping Quicksilver x Captain America.
 

Kater

Banned
I just checked it, and it was more of a gay party. As for the reason, people here don't tolerate 'lewd' acts in public in general, and the party, to them, probably fell under that. Kinda of a BS-y reason, but for reference, drinking in public is illegal here, and even straight couples kissing in public is frowned upon.

Though, one incident I'd read about a while ago but just stumbled upon, is when a woman and her female life partner were arrested at their wedding along with a number of the guests. I felt pretty bad reading that one. I think it was the first gay wedding ever here, I'm not sure. I doubt the marriage itself was recognized by the government, though.

To be fair, though, it's better than most other muslim countries where even the act of gay sex is illegal. No anti-gay laws here; it's mostly a cultural thing. (lol am I defending them? What's wrong with me?)
I understand. Still sad though. And damn, why did they ruin a marriage by arresting everyone. That's certainly not nice. Hope things improve in your country soon enough.

Edit:
Top of the page again... -.-

Here, have some Kit pics

DMw42Bx.jpg

XsGQCRJ.jpg
 
Wooo, excited, just bought a Wii U Mario Kart 8 bundle + Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Probably choosing Pikmin 3 as my free game, but not certain yet. Smash Bros also this year, Warlords of Draenor as well, and Monster Hunter 4 in 2015, I'm excited! :D

Aaaand this has nothing to do with anything LGBT...uh, who wants to play Mario Kart 8 with me soon? ^,^

Gay Pride Amsterdam coming up August 2nd, not sure if I'm going. I liked it the last time I went, really really busy though.
 
Wooo, excited, just bought a Wii U Mario Kart 8 bundle + Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Probably choosing Pikmin 3 as my free game, but not certain yet. Smash Bros also this year, Warlords of Draenor as well, and Monster Hunter 4 in 2015, I'm excited! :D

Aaaand this has nothing to do with anything LGBT...uh, who wants to play Mario Kart 8 with me soon? ^,^

Gay Pride Amsterdam coming up August 2nd, not sure if I'm going. I liked it the last time I went, really really busy though.

I dooooooo! Add me: Atheos

I've never been, but I'd like to go someday. Where are you from in NL?
 

EmiPrime

Member
I would have a lot more respect for Janet Mock if she didn't start to shit on the passing privilege lately. Does she really think she could have ever become a successful journalist for a famous womens magazine back before she came out of her stealth mode? Or the way she talks about how she walks proudly and openly as a transwoman in public and other should do that too. Yeah, that's because nobody notices you're T, my dear. I wonder if she even cam imagine how much she would have been harrassed if she wouldn't pass that well.

And of course I know where she's going. That all Transpeople should be able to walk the streets safely no matter how they look. But presenting herself as a shining example of this to promote this ideal world when in fact it's just her passing privilege at work seems inredebly hypocritical to me.

I agree with you. I like her a lot but she would not be anywhere nearly as popular and successful as an activist if she wasn't flat out beautiful.

Guy 1: "Many of our ancestors were completely eradicated off the face of the earth by deadly plagues and terrible genocides at the hands of white people. Plus, our surviving ancestors were hauled off their ancestral lands and forced into crummy little ghettos; BEAT THAT!"
Guy 2: "C'mon son, we were taken out of our ancestral home and forced to become slaves to southern plantations owners who treated us worse than dirt and stole every bit of culture that we had! Plus, when white people freed us we were still treated like second class citizens! What you gotta say about that red man??"
Guy 3: "You think you guys have it bad??! Oy vey!!..."

That's the idea of the "Opression Olympics", no one (including myself) is dismissing your concerns or experiences. The phrase criticizes one's attempt at making their experiences with a severed leg seem worse than the person's with a severed arm; They both have unique issues that should be accounted for but it makes no sense for them to pit themselves against each other, especially when they share some very similar issues and people are capable of addressing more than one issue at a time.




Oh I know it does honey.
I can't imagine a male bodied effeminate individual like this being able to work a non-artistic office job (or be comfortable at one) if em (preferred pronoun) is trying to go to work in women's office wear, but doesn't want to be recognized as female.



Nobody expects all trans women to do this (It's a common thing that often happens in minority groups that share labels) but that doesn't make anyone who says,"Hey, you know this thing that you supposedly are? You're not that because I'm very uncomfortable with being associated with you and your damaging identity!" sound like a very good person.

You don't understand what privilege means.

Not having to prostrate yourself before doctors and mental health professionals is a privilege.

Not having to fight to get family members to recognise your real name is a privilege.

Not getting asked intrusive questions about your genitals is a privilege.

Not having to worry about all your legal documents being congruent is a privilege.

Not having to go through expensive and highly invasive surgeries to feel happy in your own body is a privilege.

Not experiencing the sheer horror of body and social dypshoria is a MASSIVE privilege.

I don't know what you're trying to prove by posting a video of a genderqueer trans person. They are our brothers and sisters, not cis dudes who feel a bit uncomfortable at societal gender roles or who dress up and lip sync Diana Ross songs on a Saturday night.

Because people are obsessed with putting each other in boxes. When someone exists outside of that box, they are upset by that fact.

I've found that most people who champion inclusion are only in it for so long as *they're* included. Beyond that, their mindset quickly becomes the "conform or die" line of reasoning that breeds intolerance worldwide. Always a next group to look down upon, I suppose.

Because words are supposed to mean something. When other people try to appropriate words especially those of an extremely marginalised group that group is far less likely to have their voice heard. Trans people barely get the scraps at the LGBT table and are the first group to get thrown under the bus as a concession when the gay men who run HRC, Stonewall and the like need to get something done.
 

Kater

Banned
Giant meh

Kit's face is just so odd, like he's trying his hardest to look bored as fuck.

Bah. You two. Bah.

:(

Wooo, excited, just bought a Wii U Mario Kart 8 bundle + Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Probably choosing Pikmin 3 as my free game, but not certain yet. Smash Bros also this year, Warlords of Draenor as well, and Monster Hunter 4 in 2015, I'm excited! :D

Aaaand this has nothing to do with anything LGBT...uh, who wants to play Mario Kart 8 with me soon? ^,^

Gay Pride Amsterdam coming up August 2nd, not sure if I'm going. I liked it the last time I went, really really busy though.

Add me too! NNID RingabelD

It's funny how everyone hates being on top of the page lol.

Born to be a bottom. lol
 

mantidor

Member
I don't know what you're trying to prove by posting a video of a genderqueer trans person. They are our brothers and sisters, not cis dudes who feel a bit uncomfortable at societal gender roles or who dress up and lip sync Diana Ross songs on a Saturday night.

This dismissal of drag queens is always so shocking for me, although expected. But drag queens are more than just "cis men in wigs", the fact you can refer to them in either gender, in or out of drag, already makes them drop the "cis" label. They are at the very least genderqueer.

But that is their role, they mock you and me and everyone and their expectations on gender and sexuality, which I personally think is something basic for our rights as gls people, because we are fighting a cultural fight, we are breaking old molds, and they only way to do that is to point out how silly they are. It's not surprising they have constantly been the spear head in the movement, despite being generally rejected, and this is by gay people and trans people alike. They are "too loud", or "not serious enough", or the more common "they don't represent me", which is mostly a "I wish they would disappear".
 

EmiPrime

Member
This dismissal of drag queens is always so shocking for me, although expected. But drag queens are more than just "cis men in wigs", the fact you can refer to them in either gender, in or out of drag, already makes them drop the "cis" label. They are at the very least genderqueer.

But that is their role, they mock you and me and everyone and their expectations on gender and sexuality, which I personally think is something basic for our rights as gls people, because we are fighting a cultural fight, we are breaking old molds, and they only way to do that is to point out how silly they are. It's not surprising they have constantly been the spear head in the movement, despite being generally rejected, and this is by gay people and trans people alike. They are "too loud", or "not serious enough", or the more common "they don't represent me", which is mostly a "I wish they would disappear".

Many of the drag queens at the forefront of the movement in the past were actually trans women who would eventually transition. Some drag queens are trans but most are happy being fathers, boyfriends, husbands etc and do not like having their maleness belittled or questioned.

My problem with the modern day drag queen (specifically the sort that appear on RuPaul) is the misogyny and transphobia they express, nothing to do with how loud they are. I don't like jokes about domestic violence, "sluts", pimps beating on women and transphobic slurs and jokes among other things. Mockery and satire are powerful tools when taking on the establishment but they are equally powerful ways to belittle and bully those on the margins.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom